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Matt Cooper - Driving in Hard Shoulder

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12467…12

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    #92
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    GreeBo wrote: »
    1/2) I dont see where its been explained and its still not a law. You cannot be arrested for breaking the rules of the road. Sorry but thats a fact.
    3) so your "Fail" referred to...?
    4) What fact are you stating exactly? Thats its a law? That still doesnt address why.
    1) I read the rules of the raod and passed my driving test. During this, I learned that it was the law.
    2) Lanes, and how to use them.
    3) "Fail" isn't an attack on you, it was directed at the failure of your post.
    4) I highlighted the fact that your assertion on what was correct/logical was wrong.


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    #93
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Alun wrote: »
    True, that's what they were designed for, but there's absolutely nothing to stop you using them for that purpose, and you'd be pretty stupid not to make use of them to do that, especially when traffic is heavy.
    Agreed. Here is a perfect example of where the "rule" doesnt make sense and should be reviewed/challenged. Otherwise nothing ever changes.


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    #94
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,988 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Maybe if I make it bigger you will get it.
    WHYis it the law? You can keep telling me that it is the law but not tell me why. Whats the reason for staying left?

    You just said it wasn't the law! And you've had two pages explaining why its the law!

    I'm writing you off as a troll at this stage.


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    #95
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,988 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Agreed. Here is a perfect example of where the "rule" doesnt make sense and should be reviewed/challenged. Otherwise nothing ever changes.

    What rule? There are no rules surrounding them - except any you've just made up.


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    #96
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Zulu wrote: »
    1) I read the rules of the raod and passed my driving test. During this, I learned that it was the law.
    2) Lanes, and how to use them.
    3) "Fail" isn't an attack on you, it was directed at the failure of your post.
    4) I highlighted the fact that your assertion on what was correct/logical was wrong.
    You highlighted but didnt explain why. You still havent explained why its the law and seem to be hiding behind "Its the law" as an explanation. As you have pointed out, thats not an explanation its a fact. Albeit an incorrect one as its not a law.


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    #97
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    GREBO, you are ignoring this post so I will repost it, can you give us your views on it please?...



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3586474.stm
    Motorway lane-hogs 'cut capacity'

    Too much braking is causing phantom traffic jams, says the RAC
    Up to a third of motorway capacity is being wasted by drivers' poor lane discipline, according to research by the RAC Foundation.

    "Selfish" middle-lane hoggers and outside-lane blockers are the worst culprits, said RAC head Edmund King.

    "If we can encourage these drivers to practise better lane discipline it would be equivalent to adding 700 miles of new motorway capacity," he added.

    Now will you admit you are wrong? If you still want to take the opinion that you are right and everyone else is wrong will you please disclose what licence you have and what driver training you have?


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    #98
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Firstly, thanks for your answer.
    While I agree with 1) I dont think you can drive expecting your car to break down but still point taken.
    As for your second point, this will happen anyway on a 3 or more laned road as you attempt to complete your overtaking manover there is the risk of someone being in your passenger blind spot as they move from lane 1 to 2 etc.

    But if you are overtaking them it is a lot less likely.

    I note you have ignored my point three.

    On a side point, I am struck by the irony of some posters saying you should drive on the left "because it is the law" - the same posters who believe the speed limits are not applicable to them when the discussion of speed comes up. :rolleyes:


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    #99
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    MYOB wrote: »
    What rule? There are no rules surrounding them - except any you've just made up.

    Erm you just told us all thats its not part of the motorway and is not supposed to be used for merging??
    MYOB wrote:
    The ROTR has not been updated to reflect this, but the road markings indicate it is a seperate roadway hence its not classified as undertaking if you pass a car on the main roadway

    These are being placed to allow people to travel junction to junction without requiring to merge with the main roadway, NOT to allow people to merge over longer distances.


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    #100
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    nipplenuts wrote: »
    But if you are overtaking them it is a lot less likely.

    I note you have ignored my point three.

    On a side point, I am struck by the irony of some posters saying you should drive on the left "because it is the law" - the same posters who believe the speed limits are not applicable to them when the discussion of speed comes up. :rolleyes:

    Well I meant that you are overtaking a car in lane 2 and they are moving from lane 1 to lane 2.
    Ah, I missed point 3 alright.
    "Another is so traffic merging will not have to cross multiple lanes to get past you."
    I would argue that they will be merging into lane 1. If they are travelling faster then I am then they will have merged ahead of me and Im not in their way. If they are slower then they have no need to pass me out.

    lol at your aside. Law is only law when it suits them I think you will find.


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    #101
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,988 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Erm you just told us all thats its not part of the motorway and is not supposed to be used for merging??

    I said its a seperate roadway and that it was not DESIGNED to be used for merging. Nothing prevents you from using it for that.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    If they are travelling faster then I am then they will have merged ahead of me and Im not in their way. If they are slower then they have no need to pass me out.

    That would require undertaking you, which is ALSO illegal.


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    #102
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »
    GREBO, you are ignoring this post so I will repost it, can you give us your views on it please?...



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3586474.stm



    Now will you admit you are wrong? If you still want to take the opinion that you are right and everyone else is wrong will you please disclose what licence you have and what driver training you have?

    If everyone obeyed all the rules of the road then we would have a level playing field to review and make any changes to the current rules. They dont so we dont.


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    #103
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If everyone obeyed all the rules of the road then we would have a level playing field to review and make any changes to the current rules. They dont so we dont.

    I am not sure WTF you are talking about there but I think I can assume you are ignoring what the RAC said about middle lane hoggers (or middle lane morons as UK drivers call them), correct?

    What are your driving qualifications again?


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    #104
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,773 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    GreeBo,

    Where's the advantage to having the left lane used only for merging traffic?

    As soon as a car gets onto the motorway using your "merging lane", they then (assuming they're not immediately getting back off it) have to merge into your middle "driving lane".

    It's the same thing, except you're wasting the left lane for nothing but a pointless pre-merge...

    Eh?


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    #105
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,988 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If everyone obeyed all the rules of the road then we would have a level playing field to review and make any changes to the current rules. They dont so we dont.

    The only person on this thread so far making it clear they break the Road Traffic Act is you.


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    #106
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    MYOB wrote: »
    I said its a seperate roadway and that it was not DESIGNED to be used for merging. Nothing prevents you from using it for that.
    Sure. So do you think using these lanes for merging on/leaving the motorway is a good or bad idea?
    MYOB wrote: »
    That would require undertaking you, which is ALSO illegal.
    How is this undertaking? Please explain how you think someone can join a motorway without merging in front of *someone*?


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    #107
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    keane2097 wrote: »
    GreeBo,

    Where's the advantage to having the left lane used only for merging traffic?

    As soon as a car gets onto the motorway using your "merging lane", they then (assuming they're not immediately getting back off it) have to merge into your middle "driving lane".

    It's the same thing, except you're wasting the left lane for nothing but a pointless pre-merge...

    Eh?
    The advantage is that you have an entire (non vanishing) lane that will be empty as it reaches each on ramp and it also provides a land than you can move to when you are leaving the motorway (and slowing down for the minor road)


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    #108
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,773 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The advantage is that you have an entire (non vanishing) lane that will be empty as it reaches each on ramp and it also provides a land than you can move to when you are leaving the motorway (and slowing down for the minor road)

    But you still have to immediately merge into the middle lane to continue on driving. You're just delaying the merging problem and losing the left lane in the process for very little benefit...


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    #109
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,988 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    How is this undertaking? Please explain how you think someone can join a motorway without merging in front of *someone*?

    Your situation is that someone who is merging paralell to you but is going faster will end up in front of you. This is undertaking.

    If they were to pass you legally they'd need to slow down to fall behind you, cross 2 lanes to pass you then cross 2 lanes again to return to the LEGAL driving lane - all due to you lane hogging.


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    #110
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    I give up. We have given GreeBo laws, expert opinions (from the RAC) and common sense arguements. The guy is either a troll or the type of person who never admits they are wrong. He just ignores posts that prove him totally wrong. I'm not wasting anymore of my time on him.

    -EDIT: I will waste one more post on him!


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    #111
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »
    I am not sure WTF you are talking about there but I think I can assume you are ignoring what the RAC said about middle lane hoggers (or middle lane morons as UK drivers call them), correct?

    What are your driving qualifications again?

    Most of that article is about phantom jams from cascade effect braking and other driving concerns.
    "A car changing lanes or exiting the motorway sometimes leads tailgating motorists to brake. " Gee, sounds like having a dedicated lane for joining/leaving the motorway would reduce this braking.


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    #112
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,988 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Most of that article is about phantom jams from cascade effect braking and other driving concerns.
    "A car changing lanes or exiting the motorway sometimes leads tailgating motorists to brake. " Gee, sounds like having a dedicated lane for joining/leaving the motorway would reduce this braking.

    Erm, no. As they'd enter the merge lane and then have to merge in to your magical driving lane, just as much braking would occur. In fact, people would be making two lane manoeurves to join or leave, not one...

    Its your responsibility to get to speed on the merge lane before merging.


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    #113
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Most of that article is about phantom jams from cascade effect braking and other driving concerns.
    "A car changing lanes or exiting the motorway sometimes leads tailgating motorists to brake. " Gee, sounds like having a dedicated lane for joining/leaving the motorway would reduce this braking.

    The RAC say:
    "Selfish" middle-lane hoggers and outside-lane blockers are the worst culprits, said RAC head Edmund King.

    "If we can encourage these drivers to practise better lane discipline it would be equivalent to adding 700 miles of new motorway capacity," he added.

    Why are you ignoring that part. YOU are the worst culprit according to the RAC.

    What are your driving qualitications again?


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    #114
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    keane2097 wrote: »
    But you still have to immediately merge into the middle lane to continue on driving. You're just delaying the merging problem and losing the left lane in the process for very little benefit...

    I think having ample opportunity to get to the correct speed without having to worry about your lane ending is some benefit. Also traffic leaving the motorway will be out of the way of continuing traffic.


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    #115
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Most of that article is about phantom jams from cascade effect braking and other driving concerns.
    "A car changing lanes or exiting the motorway sometimes leads tailgating motorists to brake. " Gee, sounds like having a dedicated lane for joining/leaving the motorway would reduce this braking.

    Not tailgating would reduce that braking.
    Paying attention to the indicators of other drivers would reduce that braking.
    Better driver training that meant people didn't brake until they were in the de-merging lane would reduce the likelihood of other drivers braking.


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    #116
    I.S.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    GreeBo, before I go please answer these three questions:

    What type of driving licence do you have?

    Do you have any form of advanced driving training?

    What motorway do you most frequently drive on and how often do you drive on it (daily/weekly/etc)?


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    #117
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    MYOB wrote: »
    Your situation is that someone who is merging paralell to you but is going faster will end up in front of you. This is undertaking.
    So if I am joining the motorway and Im doing 100kph, there are cars in lane 1 doing 90kph. Please explain how you think I can join the motorway without being in front of these cars?
    MYOB wrote: »
    If they were to pass you legally they'd need to slow down to fall behind you, cross 2 lanes to pass you then cross 2 lanes again to return to the LEGAL driving lane - all due to you lane hogging.
    whenever traffic wants to go faster than the traffic in lane 2 it has to corss 2 lanes and then back. Whats your point?


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    #118
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Not sure if anyone's mentioned it here yet, but my experience of driving on the continent is that every stays in the leftmost lane except when overtaking.

    If you're in the leftmost lane and you see someone coming down the merging lane, you move into the overtaking lane (if it's clear) until the driver's joined the left lane and you know whether you'll be slotting in behind them because they're going faster than you or whether you'll be staying in the overtaking lane and overtaking them because they're slower than you.

    This system removes the need for a dedicated, full-time merging lane and takes a lot of stress away from the person merging as they have maximum space and time to establish themselves in their lane.


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    #119
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    MYOB wrote: »
    Erm, no. As they'd enter the merge lane and then have to merge in to your magical driving lane, just as much braking would occur. In fact, people would be making two lane manoeurves to join or leave, not one...
    there wouldnt be anybody in lane 1 at an on ramp as they would have all left on the prevous off ramp.

    MYOB wrote: »
    Its your responsibility to get to speed on the merge lane before merging.
    Do you thikn thats always possible? Are you going to answer on whether you think using the non motorway lanes for merging is good or not?


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    #120
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    GreeBo wrote: »
    whenever traffic wants to go faster than the traffic in lane 2 it has to corss 2 lanes and then back. Whats your point?

    Changing two lanes everytime you want to overtake is far less safe than changing one lane to overtake.

    That doesn't make sense.


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    #121
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,988 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Do you thikn thats always possible? Are you going to answer on whether you think using the non motorway lanes for merging is good or not?

    Its always possible if you're a good driver. You, clearly, are not.

    I think you should merge to the driving lane as soon as you are at speed to do so.


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