My Pleco & Guppies

whiteboard

Hi All,

newbie fishkeeper...

Tank is up and running about 8 months. Lost a few guppies to new tank syndrome but all the readings have calmed at this point.

Kept guppies to start with and all was ok. Then had some issues with algae and went for a pleco to help control this. All seemed ok until I added some more guppies after which they were all (6) wiped out in about a week. They all looked as if they had been hacked to bits especially their tails.

Just wondering if 'the pleco could've done it'. tank looks pretty sad with just the pleco in it. I would love to build it up again but am slow to restock in case the same happens. Online sites suggest that plecos and guppies should be fine togther.

Any help/advice/comments appeciated as I would like to make a go of this.

Cheers
Whitey

Limerick Bandit

Hi Whitey

It is extremely unlikely that the peleco had anything to do with the deaths, guppies are not the hardiest of fish but it is hard to tell what happened to then without more details,
what size is your tank? how often do you do water changes?

LB

cbond

I have guppies and plecos in my tank.I used to have major trouble with guppies and their tales which I think was caused by a low ph level in my tank.

ValerieR

Hi whiteboard,
What are your readings (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and especially pH) as well as the size of your tank?
Thanks
ValerieR
www.irishfishkeepers.com

whiteboard

All,

thanks for the replies.

ValerieR I will take the readings over the next day or so and post them.
I am using an API master test kit.

The tank is a rekord 60 I have a tank ornament which is a set of 2 arched columns; the tank also has a small piece of bog wood and a couple of artifical plants. The substrate consists of small black pebbles.

I generally have being changing about 20% of the water each week. This is conditioned with stress coat and a chlorine, chloramine treatment and left stand for about 24 hours. I use the boxed Juwel filters, changing the white one each week and the black one when I open a new box.

The water is tested before the weekly water change. Going on memory, the low PH of the water is generally around 7.6 with the high reading about the same. The book I have suggests this should be ok for guppies http://www.rockbottomaquatics.co.uk/prod.php?prod=412. I have so far to avoided adding any 3rd party chemicals to the water to change any of the readings.

I have listed as many details as I can. I will fill in any blanks when I get home.

Again thanks for all the replies and keep the questions coming; I would like to get this sorted.

PS I know the pleco may outgrow the tank over time but that would be an issue I would like to have to address when it would arise!

Regads
Whitey

brianmc

Something that I've found with guppies is that they are much happier in hard water. Not just water with a slightly alkaline pH like yours but in genuine hard water (high GH and KH). Plecos generally prefer soft water but are better able to tolerate hard water than guppies tolerate soft water.

Do you get much lime scale in your kettle? If not, your water may be too soft for the guppies. What I did was I started adding some "Crystal Spring" mineral water to my tank water to increase the hardness and all of my Guppy problems disappeared. If you have soft water and you don't like idea of doing this you might be better getting some soft water fish such as danios, tetra, etc.

Jimkel

DO you wash your filter out under the tap???

Stress coat is a dechlorrinator so you only need to use this, although I recommend an alternative that does not contain Alo Vera.

Most likely you bought guppies purchased from a store who got them from sri lanka, (I say most likely because this is where one of the main suppliers for Ireland gets them from) Where they are bred in salt water and can only live for about 3 weeks in fresh water without adding salt. They can be acclimatised but this is the pet shops job, chances are they don't know that they are saltwater bred guppies themselves. Try asking the pet store where they get their guppies from, let me know the answer and I can tell you if it's the suppliers fault they died.

whiteboard

Right-o, let me try and answer some of the questions posed.

Jimkel
I clean my filters and tank ornaments in the old tank water once it has been taken from the tank during a water change.The other declorinator I have is Nutrafin Aqua Plus' stress coat has just run out so maybe I should just use the one?

The point about the fish from Sri Lanka is very interesting; can someone tell me of a shop where the supplies are not bred in saltwater? I am in Dublin.

brianmc
I wouldn't have said there was too much limescale in the water. This is just an unqualified observation. But there has always been a build up on the underside of the tank lid.

ValerieR
The tank readings taken just now show
PH 7.6
High PH 7.8 (prob somewhere between 7.4/7.8 colours)
Nitrite 0.25 (Looking at my logs, this would be an exception)
Nitrate 0
Ammonia 0

It is about 3/4 weeks since the guppies died, so it is just the pleco in the tank. I probably havent been as anal about the tank maintenace given my disappointment with events. This could explain the nitrite reading.

I will do some daily 20% water changes to get the nitrite down; also will hoover out the substrate and clean the tank ornaments.

Someone told me that it could have been an underfed pleco?

Again Thanks
Whitey

ValerieR

Hi Whitey,
Yes, your nitrite should be down to zero indeed. Your pH should be ok for guppies. It might very well be the pleco who has a little bit of a troublemaking streak :-(
How big is he? If it is a common pleco, it'll outgrow your 60 litre tank soon. You might want to consider exchanging him at your LFS against something that grows a little smaller like a few bristlenoses.
But, then it might not be the pleco ... ;-)
I hope this helps.
ValerieR
www.irishfishkeepers.com

whiteboard

ValerieR,

I kind thought that the readings were ok with the exception of the nitrite. will work to get this down. As I said they have benn fairly spot on over time.

The pleco is about 4 inches or so. Has had the tank to himself for a while now so maybe he wont appreciate some new tankmates (esp. if he has an aggressive streak). is swapping the pleco possible in some shops? I would rather that or give him away than the alternative.

Well, I will get the nitrite down and see what I can do about the pleco. After that its a case of restocking with some more guppies and seeing what happens.

But if it aint the pleco, is there anything else it could be?

I wil update the thread to let you know how I go.

Cheers
Whitey

brianmc

whiteboard wrote: »

brianmc
I wouldn't have said there was too much limescale in the water. This is just an unqualified observation. But there has always been a build up on the underside of the tank lid.

The other way around, the guppies probably like the fact that you DO get some sort of a build up of scale. Anyway, that rules that out.

Fishyfreak

Sounds like your maintenance is fine. Don't clean the filter for a month or two and changing the filter pads is just a gimmick by Juwel to make you buy more from them. That polishing white filter floss is a joke IMO.

It's practically impossible to have a Nitrite reading in the tank when your Nitrate reading is zero! If that is the case I would dump the test kit as they can go out of date.

What sort of Pleco is it? A common gibbiceps? It's not a Pictus Catfish you have by any chance (unlikely but I thought i'd ask)

IMO Guppies have gone from one of the toughest to one of the weakest fish in the hobby now. They used to be great beginner fish. I would get yourself a few Zebra Danios/Swordtails, if they don't last then you have a serious water problem.

whiteboard

Fishyfreak,

Would Zebra Danios suvive in my water given the Ph readings of 7.6+?
It seems the Swordtails would be happy at these Ph readings.

Thanks
Whitey

ValerieR

Hi Whitey,

The danio rerio (zebra danio) is happiest in a pH 7 ish but should be ok in your water. Just make sure you acclimatise it slowly before putting them in your tank water. For example, if the pH is majorly different, you can place them in a recipient and add a little water from your tank over a few hours. The best IME is to put them in a bucket and slowly drip water from the main tank through an airline with a knot tied in it to reduce the flow.

The xiphophorus (swordtail and platy) is happy in a 7 to 8 pH. They should be happy in your water.

I hope this helps.
ValerieR
www.irisfishkeepers.com

Fishyfreak

whiteboard wrote: »

Fishyfreak,

Would Zebra Danios suvive in my water given the Ph readings of 7.6+?
It seems the Swordtails would be happy at these Ph readings.

Thanks
Whitey

Both are widely commerciallly bred and will thrive in almost any PH in Ireland. Very tough and beautiful fish.

If you are concerned about your hard water you could also look into some dwarf rainbowfish, also tough and thrive in hard alkaline water.

whiteboard

ValerieR, Fishyfreak

Are we saying that the Zebras, Swordtails and rainbows would all coexist?
And these in whatever cobination should be ok with the pleco?

Thanks again for the replies.

Whitey

Fishyfreak

whiteboard wrote: »

ValerieR, Fishyfreak

Are we saying that the Zebras, Swordtails and rainbows would all coexist?
And these in whatever cobination should be ok with the pleco?

Thanks again for the replies.

Whitey

Absolutely, they are all ideal community fish.

Also Plecos have a reputation for keeping tanks clean but in reality they are messy and clean very little in the tank. IMO I would try to get rid of it, but that's your own personal choice of course. There are great substitutes like Ancistrus (bristlenose) catfish that remain a manageable size or some Cory Cats or a few Otocinclus (Oto) Catfish.

ValerieR

+1
Oto are brilliant at cleaning algae!

ValerieR
www.irishfishkeepers.com

The_Conductor

We had a problem with a Pleco and guppies in our tank (the Pleco has since been rehomed elsewhere). Essentially he chased the other fish around the tank relentlessly, and would grab at them at randomly and eat them (so much for being told he was vegetarian) and when those that he didn't manage to catch eventually died from stress, thoughtfully attacked the corpses too....... Eventually he just got to be a ridiculous size (almost 2 feet long with well over a 1 foot high dorsal fin)- so we got him a new home. He was being fed properly I hasten to add.......