Match Thread: Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool FC 01/11/08

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

why bother playing at all lets just get the fixtures tot up the "what should happen on paper" points and be done with it.

Your fixture list has no relevance on winning the league or losing

you don't have the depth in the squad there's no more quality than there was there last year there's no reason earth to think they'll win it

be closer at the end based on the start? possibly but pipping chelsea/united to the title?

not a hope in hell

I guess you're the guy who says we're nothing without Torres and Gerrard, even though we beat Man U without the both of them (without Gerrard for the most part) and beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge without Torres. I'm very happy with the depth in our squad. Seriously do you not realise how stupid it is to be saying we're out of the title race based solely on one game?

Dub13

ntlbell wrote: »

why bother playing at all lets just get the fixtures tot up the "what should happen on paper" points and be done with it.

Your fixture list has no relevance on winning the league or losing

you don't have the depth in the squad there's no more quality than there was there last year there's no reason earth to think they'll win it

be closer at the end based on the start? possibly but pipping chelsea/united to the title?

not a hope in hell

I think the up and coming games against some of the so called 'mid table teams' are relevant,if Liverpool lose against Chelsea in Anfield and Man Utd away we will have a neutral points difference against them this season.

So lets say from a Liverpool point of view in a worst case scenario we do lose to them both then the league is going to be decided by games against the so called lesser teams.Thats the difference this year we are beating the others in the top 4.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I guess you're the guy who says we're nothing without Torres and Gerrard, even though we beat Man U without the both of them (without Gerrard for the most part) and beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge without Torres. I'm very happy with the depth in our squad. Seriously do you not realise how stupid it is to be saying we're out of the title race based solely on one game?

can you show me wher ei said your nothing without torres and gerrard?

your nothing with them.

As i said 3 or 4 times now, your not out of the title race because of today

you were out of it before a ball was kicked and untill you have another 5/6 world class players and a manager that knows what he's doing in the prem you will always be out of the title race

see the huge difference?

ntlbell

Dub13 wrote: »

I think the up and coming games against some of the so called 'mid table teams' are relevant,if Liverpool lose against Chelsea in Anfield and Man Utd away we will have a negative points difference against them this season.

So lets say from a Liverpool point of view in a worst case scenario we do lose to them both then the league is going to be decided by games against the so called lesser teams.Thats the difference this year we are beating the others in the top 4.

my point was dub there's no point showing me your fixture list for the next 6/7 games and telling me how winnable they are they're not points tll the games are won

today was a very winnable fixture and you got zip.

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

can you show me wher ei said your nothing without torres and gerrard?

your nothing with them.

As i said 3 or 4 times now, your not out of the title race because of today

you were out of it before a ball was kicked and untill you have another 5/6 world class players and a manager that knows what he's doing in the prem you will always be out of the title race

see the huge difference?

Everything you are saying lacks coherency with no basic evidence. All you are doing is voicing your own opinion devoid of any facts. Seriously you are bordering on trolling because it's quite obvious at this stage that you are just trying to be controversial to get a rise out of people.

rossie1977

ntlbell wrote: »

you were out of it before a ball was kicked and untill you have another 5/6 world class players and a manager that knows what he's doing in the prem you will always be out of the title race

see the huge difference?

no team on earth has 5/6 world class players or ever had playing at their peak

SantryRed

ntlbell wrote: »

can you show me wher ei said your nothing without torres and gerrard?

your nothing with them.

As i said 3 or 4 times now, your not out of the title race because of today

you were out of it before a ball was kicked and untill you have another 5/6 world class players and a manager that knows what he's doing in the prem you will always be out of the title race

see the huge difference?

You're going a bit over the top mate:eek: I see that as trolling to be honest.

A right full, and a stronger centre back to compliment Carragher and a proper right winger, and they'd be flying.

ntlbell

rossie1977 wrote: »

no team on earth has 5/6 world class players or ever had playing at their peak

ronaldo,rooney,berbatov,vidic,ferdinand

zing

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Everything you are saying lacks coherency with no basic evidence. All you are doing is voicing your own opinion devoid of any facts. Seriously you are bordering on trolling because it's quite obvious at this stage that you are just trying to be controversial to get a rise out of people.

19 years without a title..

4th for how many years running now?

how much more evidence do you want.

can you tell me whats so different to this team and last years team?

can you explain why the differences will win the league

and keep in mind about the teams around and who they have brought in.

rossie1977

ntlbell wrote: »

ronaldo,rooney,berbatov,vidic,ferdinand

zing

its all about opinions but the only world class player there in that list imo is ronaldo, rooney didn't score an international goal for like 4 years

Dub13

ntlbell wrote: »

my point was dub there's no point showing me your fixture list for the next 6/7 games and telling me how winnable they are they're not points tll the games are won

today was a very winnable fixture and you got zip.

I agree football is not played on paper if it was we would not have dropped two points against Stoke.

I think what most Liverpool fans are hoping for is to get maximum points between now and the game against Arsenal,this looks doable on paper but as the well known football saying goes football is not played on paper.

We as Liverpool fans have to keep a lid on expatiations it is only November,we should have won today but did not but lady luck has been good to us this season so we can not complain to much.We never play well at White Hart Lane thats should have changed today,it did not so lets move on to the next one and take it one game at a time.

SantryRed

ntlbell wrote: »

ronaldo,rooney,berbatov,vidic,ferdinand

zing

By them players, that would make Torres, Gerrard, Carragher and Mascherano in Liverpool world class.....

opr

lol at the people replying to ntl.

Trying to have a sensible conversation with him is like trying to talk to a dog they never really say anything different or make much sense.

Opr

ntlbell

rossie1977 wrote: »

its all about opinions but the only world class player there in that list imo is ronaldo, rooney didn't score an international goal for like 4 years

and i'm the one being called a troll...

a cm pairing don't do back to back league titles with a champions lague double being averge...come off it.

Theresalwaysone

SantryRed wrote: »

You're going a bit over the top mate:eek: I see that as trolling to be honest.

A right full, and a stronger centre back to compliment Carragher and a proper right winger, and they'd be flying.

Two decent wingers. Two decent full backs, and a striker to compliment Torres.

Never mind a manager who has a clue.

rossie1977

SantryRed wrote: »

By them players, that would make Torres, Gerrard, Carragher and Mascherano in Liverpool world class.....

crouch if he was still there if rooney is world class

jackdaw

Well ... looks like a certain lucky team weren't so lucky today then ....

ironically enough Liverpool deserved to win this one ...


back on top

SantryRed

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Two decent wingers. Two decent full backs, and a striker to compliment Torres.

Never mind a manager who has a clue.

Meh, I think with Mascherano and Alonso in the middle they could have Gerrard play in behind Torres.
Keane's been such a let down and a waste of money.

Anyways, back on the game tonight. How fcuking bad is Gomes? It's unbelievable. Ben Foster will be there in January.

Theresalwaysone

SantryRed wrote: »

By them players, that would make Torres, Gerrard, Carragher and Mascherano in Liverpool world class.....

Torres, Gerrard and Carragher (to a lesser extent) are world class.

Masch most certainly is not.

rossie1977

ntlbell wrote: »

and i'm the one being called a troll...

a cm pairing don't do back to back league titles with a champions lague double being averge...come off it.

yeah it wasn't ronaldo who single handed won those :rolleyes:

liverpool conceded less goals in the league than man utd 2 seasons back does that make hyypia and carragher world class

SantryRed

I've gone from saying Liverpool are not Premier League winners to defending them because some people reckon they should be a mid table team

Rediculous stuff.

ntlbell

SantryRed wrote: »

By them players, that would make Torres, Gerrard, Carragher and Mascherano in Liverpool world class.....

masch is not world class

Even as united fan I love carragher, I dont love him because he's world class I love him because even tho he lacks an intelligent footballing brain he makes up for it with 110% effor every single game

but having to put in so much to make up for your lack of technical skill does not world class make i'm afraid

so we have torres and gerrard

two world class players won't win the prem i'm afraid

Theresalwaysone

SantryRed wrote: »

Meh, I think with Mascherano and Alonso in the middle they could have Gerrard play in behind Torres.
Keane's been such a let down and a waste of money.

Anyways, back on the game tonight. How fcuking bad is Gomes? It's unbelievable. Ben Foster will be there in January.

I actually agree that Gerrard would be better in behind Torres. He has a well documented case of "notgettingbackitis", benitez said himself thats why he outcasted Stevie to the wing for long periods.

If Masch could pass/shoot he would be lethal. As it stands, he is quite possibly one of the worst midfield passers of the ball in the league.

SantryRed

ntlbell wrote: »

masch is not world class

Even as united fan I love carragher, I dont love him because he's world class I love him because even tho he lacks an intelligent footballing brain he makes up for it with 110% effor every single game

but having to put in so much to make up for your lack of technical skill does not world class make i'm afraid

so we have torres and gerrard

two world class players won't win the prem i'm afraid

Are you serious?

Mascherano is an unbelievable footballer and Liverpool would be no where without him. He does exactly the same job as Hargreaves and sometimes Carrick does for United. These type of players are very difficult to come across.

Theresalwaysone

ntlbell wrote: »

masch is not world class

Even as united fan I love carragher, I dont love him because he's world class I love him because even tho he lacks an intelligent footballing brain he makes up for it with 110% effor every single game

but having to put in so much to make up for your lack of technical skill does not world class make i'm afraid

so we have torres and gerrard

two world class players won't win the prem i'm afraid

I actually cant more agree with this post. Spot on imo.

ntlbell

SantryRed wrote: »

Are you serious?

Mascherano is an unbelievable footballer and Liverpool would be no where without him. He does exactly the same job as Hargreaves and sometimes Carrick does for United. These type of players are very difficult to come across.

carrick is a world away from world class

hargreaves is two worlds away

Theresalwaysone

SantryRed wrote: »

Are you serious?

Mascherano is an unbelievable footballer and Liverpool would be no where without him. He does exactly the same job as Hargreaves and sometimes Carrick does for United. These type of players are very difficult to come across.

Players of Masch types are very hard to come across. Agreed.

He is not however in the same mould as Carrick/Hargreaves. He is a ball winner and only that. He lacks any creativity/speed/passing competence.

Carrick (while I dont personally like him) is an excellent passer of the ball, much like Alonso. He is not quite the ball winner (much like Alonso) but controls a game by making the ball do the work (guess what I was gonna say here!). FWIW I would prefer Alonso to Carrick.

Hargreaves is more like Masch. Masch wins more balls, gets back and battles a little more too imo, but Hargreaves has the benefit of not being football retarded.

SantryRed

ntlbell wrote: »

carrick is a world away from world class

hargreaves is two worlds away

Meh, so is Vidic so. He has all the heart in the world and will put his head in front of anything, but he lacks the technical ability to be world class;)

ntlbell

SantryRed wrote: »

Meh, so is Vidic so. He has all the heart in the world and will put his head in front of anything, but he lacks the technical ability to be world class;)

Nope he has an amazing footballing brain and bags of technical skill.

If you watch the amount of stupid running and sweating carragher has to do to make up for his lack of brain you will see the difference...

i dont think i've seen vidic break sweat...

opr

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Players of Masch types are very hard to come across. Agreed.

He is not however in the same mould as Carrick/Hargreaves. He is a ball winner and only that. He lacks any creativity/speed/passing competence.

Carrick (while I dont personally like him) is an excellent passer of the ball, much like Alonso. He is not quite the ball winner (much like Alonso) but controls a game by making the ball do the work (guess what I was gonna say here!). FWIW I would prefer Alonso to Carrick.

Hargreaves is more like Masch. Masch wins more balls, gets back and battles a little more too imo, but Hargreaves has the benefit of not being football retarded.

I don't understand what your trying to say ? Do you think hes a good player or not ?

He is first choice in one of the best passing teams in the world.

Edit - I think most great teams need a player in his mould.

Opr

ntlbell

opr wrote: »

I don't understand what your trying to say ? Do you think hes a good player or not ?

He is first choice in one of the best passing teams in the world.

Edit - I think most great teams need a player in his mould.

Opr

so was pascal cygan

Theresalwaysone

opr wrote: »

I don't understand what your trying to say ? Do you think hes a good player or not ?

He is first choice in one of the best passing teams in the world.

Edit - I think most great teams need a player in his mould.

Opr

Do I think who is good or not?

ROCKMAN

rossie1977 wrote: »

no team on earth has 5/6 world class players or ever had playing at their peak

you cannot be serious will this comment :eek:

If so , the award for the dumbest post of all times goes to....................

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

19 years without a title..

4th for how many years running now?

how much more evidence do you want.

can you tell me whats so different to this team and last years team?

can you explain why the differences will win the league

and keep in mind about the teams around and who they have brought in.

And that has any relevance to this season because? I want evidence that is relevant to this season and don't give me the "luck" crap, you make your own luck.

What's so different between the team of now and last season?

This team has a sense of purpose and confidence that has been desperately lacking in the past few seasons. Am I saying we are definite challengers? No, I don't have a crystal ball that can see into the future like you seem to have but I have seen enough so far this season to know that everyone, from the manager to the players, believe that they can be contenders.

opr

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Do I think who is good or not?

Mach ?

You says hes not world class. I would argue that the players around him are maybe not good enough for him to show why he is world class but put him in the right enviroment like with his national side . . .

I mean its not his fault certain other players around him whose job today was to kill the game with a second goal couldn't produce.

Opr

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

And that has any relevance to this season because? I want evidence that is relevant to this season and don't give me the "luck" crap, you make your own luck.

What's so different between the team of now and last season?

This team has a sense of purpose and confidence that has been desperately lacking in the past few seasons. Am I saying we are definite challengers? No, I don't have a crystal ball that can see into the future like you seem to have but I have seen enough so far this season to know that everyone, from the manager to the players, believe that they can be contenders.

Dude because you haven't added anything to the side to make it any better than chelsea and united who have streghtned even more than last year

Chelsea are flying playing with tons of confidence, united always have bags of confidence why is liverpool having a bit going to change anything?

this manager has proved time and time again he is clueless in the prem consntatly making terrible desicions constantly picking the wrong team consntalt making bad subs chosing the wrong formation.

he isn't going to suddenly work out how to win the prem in 3 months is he? you haven't brought in any players better than the players other sides have brought in you haven't done anything to show any signs of surpassing united or chelsea..

at best you might be a bit closer than last year to think anything different is delusional

ntlbell

opr wrote: »

Mach ?

You says hes not world class. I would argue that the players around him are maybe not good enough for him to show why he is world class but put him in the right enviroment like with his national side . . .

I mean its not his fault certain other players around him whose job today was to kill the game with a second goal couldn't produce.

Opr

Doesn't gerrard play with the same bunch of players? he manages to look world class?

torres?

blaming the players around him for not been world class is just madness

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

Dude because you haven't added anything to the side to make it any better than chelsea and united who have streghtned even more than last year

Chelsea are flying playing with tons of confidence, united always have bags of confidence why is liverpool having a bit going to change anything?

this manager has proved time and time again he is clueless in the prem consntatly making terrible desicions constantly picking the wrong team consntalt making bad subs chosing the wrong formation.

he isn't going to suddenly work out how to win the prem in 3 months is he? you haven't brought in any players better than the players other sides have brought in you haven't done anything to show any signs of surpassing united or chelsea..

at best you might be a bit closer than last year to think anything different is delusional

Again, where's the relevance to this season? Tell me one game where he has fielded a terrible team or made a horrible tactical decision? The table FOR THIS SEASON doesn't lie which suggests that Benitez has rarely put a foot wrong so far.

pvt.joker

Fair play ntlbell, I agree 100% with everything you've posted so far. We're going through the familiar motions of scousers saying "this is our year", then being brought down to earth with a bang. You will never win the premiership with that clown of a manager ye have. fact. And I will put money on it with anyone here if they're brave enough. Liverpoor will be waiting another 19 years for their title.

Theresalwaysone

opr wrote: »

Mach ?

You says hes not world class. I would argue that the players around him are maybe not good enough for him to show why he is world class but put him in the right enviroment like with his national side . . .

Opr

I guess your argument has credence, but I would imagine he only starts for the Argies because he is the only player of that mould throughout the squad. Well him or Cambiasso, neither World class.

The main reason I don't think he is world class is that, on the ball, he is so bad. He is like a dog chasing a car, once he gets the ball, he has no idea what to do with it.

I think it would be more fair to say, he is a world class ball winner. Not a world class midfielder.

If you look at some of the past masters of that genre of player, Keane/Viera/Makelele they never lose the ball. There passing is above competent and they also look composed and assured on the ball. I think Masch lacks all those qualities.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Again, where's the relevance to this season? Tell me one game where he has fielded a terrible team or made a horrible tactical decision? The table FOR THIS SEASON doesn't lie which suggests that Benitez has rarely put a foot wrong so far.

because managers don't suddenly learn to win the prem in a couple of weeks in the summer..

Every liverpool fan I know admits tactially he can be terrible, this is common knoweldge if you don't agree that's fine.

if you want proof of it look in the liverpool threads and look at the liverpool fans moaning about bad tactical descision you dont have to look too far

you will find them in THIS thread from LIVERPOOL fans

have a look..

you would be the first liverpool fan in history to say he's tactically sound in the premiership

champions league? i cant argue but not the prem and every pool fan knows this.

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

because managers don't suddenly learn to win the prem in a couple of weeks in the summer..

Every liverpool fan I know admits tactially he can be terrible, this is common knoweldge if you don't agree that's fine.

if you want proof of it look in the liverpool threads and look at the liverpool fans moaning about bad tactical descision you dont have to look too far

you will find them in THIS thread from LIVERPOOL fans

have a look..

you would be the first liverpool fan in history to say he's tactically sound in the premiership

champions league? i cant argue but not the prem and every pool fan knows this.

Where did I say that he hasn't made mistakes? Again you can't seem to grasp my simple question of where is the relevance for this season? Tell me one game this season where you could say "what an awful tactical decision". The only mistake he made tonight was taking Riera off for Yossi.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Where did I say that he hasn't made mistakes? Again you can't seem to grasp my simple question of where is the relevance for this season? Tell me one game this season where you could say "what an awful tactical decision". The only mistake he made tonight was taking Riera off for Yossi.

so you ask me to point out one mistake this season and before i answer you show me one?

LOL

you dont make this very hard

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

so you ask me to point out one mistake this season and before i answer you show me one?

LOL

:rolleyes: I'm not the one insulting him saying he has been tactically inept this season. Why would I point out a mistake? I don't think he's made any serious mistakes this season, I guess that is why he's sitting level with Chelsea right now.

You're saying he has made bad decisions this season. Prove it.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

:rolleyes: I'm not the one insulting him saying he has been tactically inept this season. Why would I point out a mistake? I don't think he's made any serious mistakes this season, I guess that is why he's sitting level with Chelsea right now.

You're saying he has made bad decisions this season. Prove it.

he's technically inept every season

WHY would it be any different this year??

i don't need to prove it you just did.

Theresalwaysone

LZ5by5 wrote: »

:rolleyes: I'm not the one insulting him saying he has been tactically inept this season. Why would I point out a mistake? I don't think he's made any serious mistakes this season, I guess that is why he's sitting level with Chelsea right now.

You're saying he has made bad decisions this season. Prove it.

I dont think he is saying he has (although withdrawing Gerrard against Atletico was a mistake), but given Rafa's history, it is more than likely he WILL makes huge mistakes.

Handsome Bob

ntlbell wrote: »

he's technically inept every season

WHY would it be any different this year??

i don't need to prove it you just did.

Thank you. I can finally walk away from this shambles of a conversation in the knowledge that you can't open your eyes and realise a team and a manager can evolve. Rafa Benitez is inept this season because he has been every season, that is basically what you are saying. That makes a lot of sense. Jesus Christ.

ntlbell

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Thank you. I can finally walk away from this shambles of a conversation in the knowledge that you can't open your eyes and realise a team and a manager can evolve. Rafa Benitez is inept this season because he has been every season, that is basically what you are saying. That makes a lot of sense. Jesus Christ.

ok.

Watch these sentences very closey and read them slowly.

He has been terrible desicions every single year since he came to liverpool in the prem.

a manager can evolve but you asked me to show you mistakes this year.

and instead you pointed out mistakes he made TONIGHT.

Getting it so far?

you pointed out a bad descion TONIGHT.

is that a manger evolving or proving he is still going to make mistakes?

christ.

WhiteWashMan

great to get 3 points...

themont85

It took Fergie 6 years to win the title with United. Benitiez has won the league in Spain before so knows how to win. I wouldn't write him of just yet.