Ireland Team Announcement

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The thirty four man squad includes six uncapped players. Jonathan Sexton, Keith Earls and Ian Dowling are named in the backs while Ryan Caldwell, Cian Healy and Donnacha Ryan are included in the forwards.

The squad will train in Dublin on Monday and Tuesday next week and the match day 22 for the opening game of the GUINNESS Series 2008 against Canada will be announced on Tuesday.
Ireland Squad, GUINNESS Series 2008
Backs:
Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
Ian Dowling (Shannon – Munster)
Girvan Dempsey (Terenure College – Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster – Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College – Leinster)
Shane Horgan (Boyne – Leinster)
Robert Kearney (UCD – Leinster)
Geordan Murphy (Leicester)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD – Leinster) (capt)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution – Munster)
Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin – Munster)
Eoin Reddan (Wasps)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College – Leinster)
Peter Stringer (Shannon – Munster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena – Ulster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena – Ulster)
Forwards:
Rory Best (Banbridge – Ulster)
Tony Buckley (Shannon – Munster)
Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon – Ulster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon – Ulster)
Jerry Flannery (Shannon – Munster)
John Hayes (Bruff– Munster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf – Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas – Leinster)
Marcus Horan (Shannon – Munster)
Bernard Jackman (Clontarf – Leinster)
Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College – Leinster)
Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution – Munster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution – Munster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster – Munster)
Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution – Munster)
Alan Quinlan (Shannon – Munster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon – Munster)
David Wallace (Garryowen – Munster)


No sign of the Big Mal!

pelican4

Looks like a strong squad to pick from, surely beat Canada
Kidney will have them in shape

Crash

Strange one on that - would have taken Mal on current form over O'Driscoll any day of the week

bamboozle

Mick O'Driscoll's last 2 performances have been captaining a terrible Munster performance in losing to Ulster and playing for Cork Con as they lost to Young Munster in the AIL...whereas big Mal galloped half the pitch to be tackled on the wasps line by Cipriani in a barnstorming performance in the HC against wasps!

spoon

Some players should count themselves very lucky to be in the final 30. I'm supprised Mal was't ahead of Mick, from recent form you'd have tought Mal would have been a shoe in.

Pshan

bamboozle wrote: »

Mick O'Driscoll's last 2 performances have been captaining a terrible Munster performance in losing to Ulster and playing for Cork Con as they lost to Young Munster in the AIL...whereas big Mal galloped half the pitch to be tackled on the wasps line by Cipriani in a barnstorming performance in the HC against wasps!

I assume Mal is being rested for the lesser of the three A/I matches.

Podge_irl

Pshan wrote: »

I assume Mal is being rested for the lesser of the three A/I matches.

Is it not a squad for all 3 AIs?

Surprised Mal is not in it, especially given O'Driscoll is there. Don't think there is any point in having Dowling in the squad either (though I guess that's a slightly more contentious issue), or leamy for that matter. There is no way Leamy can play any of the games with zero match time up until now. Don't know why the squad wasn't just pared to 30 like they said it would be.

Actually, come to think of it, what the hell is Buckley doing there. He isn't even making the Munster bench at the moment is he? Why have Court and Ross been dropped for him??

dub_skav

spoon wrote: »

Some players should count themselves very lucky to be in the final 30. I'm supprised Mal was't ahead of Mick, from recent form you'd have tought Mal would have been a shoe in.

On recent form I would have thought Mal would be ahead of DOC and pushing POC for his place, never mind Mick.

Shows what I know.

I've never been a fan of having all your players for a position from the same province - in this case 2nd row - it means they all think the same way so if that doesn't work there are no different ideas

spoon

Podge_irl wrote: »

Is it not a squad for all 3 AIs?
Actually, come to think of it, what the hell is Buckley doing there. He isn't even making the Munster bench at the moment is he? Why have Court and Ross been dropped for him??

I really like Buckley as a player, his scrumming needs work but he's fantastic in the break down. He has had a few appearences for munster this year in ML.

Stev_o

spoon wrote: »

I really like Buckley as a player, his scrumming needs work but he's fantastic in the break down. He has had a few appearences for munster this year in ML.

As opposed to Mike Ross who has started all of Harlequins games this year and last?

Id rather pick a player who's playing match in match out opposed to someone who firstly cant scrummage to save his life and secondly cant even make a bench spot.

conman78

Mike Ross & Big Mal should be there defo....Ian Dowling, great honest player but not an international...more of the Anthony Horgan in green jersey ilk (remember that performance)...doesnt work hard enough off the wing and linking off midfield half breaks, think Johne Murphy far better option but in saying that neither would probably do more than hold tackle bags or get splinters in the ass!!

Nukem

Ross would get the nod over Buckley IMO, a more technical player and looks fitter. the Mal issue....errrr..... ya maybe ahead of MOD but ahead of DOC/POC? funny one that. Reckon MOD and MAL should knock international duties on the head and let the younger guns have a crack:cool:

thehighground

Podge_irl wrote: »

Surprised Mal is not in it, especially given O'Driscoll is there. Don't think there is any point in having Dowling in the squad either (though I guess that's a slightly more contentious issue), or leamy for that matter. There is no way Leamy can play any of the games with zero match time up until now. Don't know why the squad wasn't just pared to 30 like they said it would be.

Actually, come to think of it, what the hell is Buckley doing there. He isn't even making the Munster bench at the moment is he? Why have Court and Ross been dropped for him??

Mal is getting on and O'Driscoll is more versatile. As for Dowling - he might surprise some of you yet, and he never lets Munster down.

Leamy is coming back from injury. Canada is actually an ideal game for him to come back for even though he hasn't played for months. I seem to remember POC coming back on the bench of a 6Ns game last year not having played for months previously.

I suspect the reason for not pearing the squad down is to do with the new ELVs and new coaching staff.

I'm surprised Court was dropped, but I suspect Gert Smal knows what he is doing. Ross missed out probably because he missed this week (not his fault) and would mess up training programme for the rest.

As for Buckley - who knows ... probably more a case of there is really no one else!

[Jackass]

In fairness, Mal is playing super rugby, but having him in the squad is a complete waste of time. IF it was on form and the world cup final was tomorrow I'd have no doubt he'd be in there, but I'd be surprised if he was still playing in 24 months, let alone 12. So there's no point holding back players in the selection.

I think other time wasters in the squad are Dowling, Trimble, P. Wallace & M. O'Driscoll.

Dowling & Trimble will never be international quality, Wallace in fairness is only there because there's no one else, but is only keeping the seat warm for the younger lads coming though, has no future at this level and O'Driscoll is a make weight in the squad, again not going to step up at this level but holding it down for the younger players coming through.

I think if O'Kelly was making way for Caldwell it may be no harm for O'Driscoll to make way for Toner to get game time at this level. I also think Dowling should be dropped for Johne Murphy, Trimble dropped for Cave & P. Wallace for O'Connor.

Although I applaud the inclusion of Cian Healy, Sexton, Earls, Caldwell & Ryan. Good to see youth getting a shot. Maybe my other suggestions above are a bit premature, but seeing as they all seem like natural succesors, maybe next time they'll get a run.

Strong squad though, and good to see BO'D retain the captaincey.

Stev_o

[Jackass] wrote: »

In fairness, Mal is playing super rugby, but having him in the squad is a complete waste of time. IF it was on form and the world cup final was tomorrow I'd have no doubt he'd be in there, but I'd be surprised if he was still playing in 24 months, let alone 12. So there's no point holding back players in the selection.

I think other time wasters in the squad are Dowling, Trimble, P. Wallace & M. O'Driscoll.

Dowling & Trimble will never be international quality, Wallace in fairness is only there because there's no one else, but is only keeping the seat warm for the younger lads coming though, has no future at this level and O'Driscoll is a make weight in the squad, again not going to step up at this level but holding it down for the younger players coming through.

I think if O'Kelly was making way for Caldwell it may be no harm for O'Driscoll to make way for Toner to get game time at this level. I also think Dowling should be dropped for Johne Murphy, Trimble dropped for Cave & P. Wallace for O'Connor.

Although I applaud the inclusion of Cian Healy, Sexton, Earls, Caldwell & Ryan. Good to see youth getting a shot. Maybe my other suggestions above are a bit premature, but seeing as they all seem like natural succesors, maybe next time they'll get a run.

Strong squad though, and good to see BO'D retain the captaincey.

Paddy Wallace is the best 12 in Ireland at the moment so his presence is warranted. Id like to see him and Fitzgerald in the centre's but because BOD is starting id have Fitz on the wing instead of Horgan

Amazotheamazing

Jackass, you were so close to making sense then you suggested Toner should be involved... the guy is a long way off even guys like Ryan and Caldwell.

To be fair to Trimble, he's done a lot more for Ireland than Bowe has, Bowe has never stepped up from ML form to Ireland level, whereas Trimble has.

Stev_o

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Jackass, you were so close to making sense then you suggested Toner should be involved... the guy is a long way off even guys like Ryan and Caldwell.

To be fair to Trimble, he's done a lot more for Ireland than Bowe has, Bowe has never stepped up from ML form to Ireland level, whereas Trimble has.

I dont remember Bowe being responsible for conceding two tries to France unlike someone

Amazotheamazing

Stev_o wrote: »

I dont remember Bowe being responsible for conceding two tries to France unlike someone

Only cause he didn't make the squad, anyhow, Trimble was covering the non-tackling O'Gara.

[Jackass]

Stev_o wrote: »

Paddy Wallace is the best 12 in Ireland at the moment so his presence is warranted. Id like to see him and Fitzgerald in the centre's but because BOD is starting id have Fitz on the wing instead of Horgan

.... oh wait, you are joking aren't you? I would say that the BO'D & Fitz centre parnership is already lightyears ahead of Wallace at 12. To be honest I've never rated Wallace, but have thought he has been particularly muck this season and personaly would say he was a major cause in Ulsters shocking form. It's no coincidence they've done a lot better this year when they've moved him out of the 10 slot, although he doesn't do anything to suggest he's an international quality centre at 12 either. 12's I'd have ahead of him BO'D, Fitz, Bowe & Trimble (who've all played 12 at some point this season, although BO'Ds jersey always read 13, himslef and Fitz swapped in and out of 12.) Plus with other centre options such as Cave and Earls, he's in there as a back up 10, no 12. And in that case I think O'Connor should be in the squad ahead of him as Ulster have been a different side with O'Connor at 10 and Wallace moved out.

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Jackass, you were so close to making sense then you suggested Toner should be involved... the guy is a long way off even guys like Ryan and Caldwell.

To be fair to Trimble, he's done a lot more for Ireland than Bowe has, Bowe has never stepped up from ML form to Ireland level, whereas Trimble has.

I certainly wouldn't agree with that, he's started all but 2 (iirc) Leinster games this season for Leinster and has been very good and keeps getting better. I don't think Caldwell has played as much or has done anything more impressive than Toner. I'm not suggesting he should be in the 22 or anything, but the chances are MO'D will be dropped from the squad when the 22 is announced, he probably (or at least shouldn't) be there if Cullen wasn't injured or indeed O'Kelly was younger! (who'd be a massive shout to be in the starting 15 to be honest).

So what's the point having him there? He's getting on and will never make an impact at this level, so why not give Toner some squad and training experience? That's all the likes of Ryan, Caldwell, Sexton & Healy are there for, although if O'Connor was there too and if Toner was there too, at least 2 of those players would get a shot at the match day 22 for Canada, which is a great thing imo.

Stev_o

[Jackass] wrote: »

.... oh wait, you are joking aren't you? I would say that the BO'D & Fitz centre parnership is already lightyears ahead of Wallace at 12. To be honest I've never rated Wallace, but have thought he has been particularly muck this season and personaly would say he was a major cause in Ulsters shocking form. It's no coincidence they've done a lot better this year when they've moved him out of the 10 slot, although he doesn't do anything to suggest he's an international quality centre at 12 either. 12's I'd have ahead of him BO'D, Fitz, Bowe & Trimble (who've all played 12 at some point this season, although BO'Ds jersey always read 13, himslef and Fitz swapped in and out of 12.) Plus with other centre options such as Cave and Earls, he's in there as a back up 10, no 12. And in that case I think O'Connor should be in the squad ahead of him as Ulster have been a different side with O'Connor at 10 and Wallace moved out.

Considering every time they have moved Wallace to 12 they'v actually managed to compete at the centre? He's a crap 10 everyone knows that but he's bloody fine 12 who competed against the All Blacks fine scored a try and should of got another one against the Wallabies if BOD had of woken up and given him a decent pass.

Look if you say Kearney is a must start because he did well in the ST then by that logic so should Wallace since he stood up at the level just as well.

[Jackass]

Well I would, but I disagree, I think other than hus try (catch a ball 5 meters out and run at an angle virtually unapposed, very soft try) he was very quite.

And as for BO'D "waking up", it's true, how dare he make a 50 yard break and fail to put in a decent pass while being chased down in the corner. Probably shouldn't even be in the squad.

Nah, I don't think he's even been that great at 12 when O'Connor was at 10, I'm wracking my brain to remember which Ulster home game it was this season when Wallace was literally the break down point for everything Ulster did, then O'Connor came on and ran the show, but again, when the ball got to Wallace he knocked on, made a forward pass, got turned over - I'm not messing, it was like having a 12 year old on the pitch, whenever he got the ball Ulster lost possesion, and I'm talking double digits here.

But I don't know how anybody could entertain the idea of STARTING this guy at 12 with the amount of options at centre, I mean argue to have him in the squad fair enough, but match day 22 is a but much in my book. He's there as cover for 10 as well, so you say yourself he's useless there. I don't Kidney even considers him in the centre. He'll more than likely be on the bench as Sexton isn't ready yet, but if wallace is in to be considered a 12 then Sexton is the only OH cover, which is wrong. That's my point why O'Connor should be in ahead of him.

Hippo

Baffling inclusion of MOD.

anonymous_joe

[Jackass] wrote: »

Well I would, but I disagree, I think other than hus try (catch a ball 5 meters out and run at an angle virtually unapposed, very soft try) he was very quite.

And as for BO'D "waking up", it's true, how dare he make a 50 yard break and fail to put in a decent pass while being chased down in the corner. Probably shouldn't even be in the squad.

Nah, I don't think he's even been that great at 12 when O'Connor was at 10, I'm wracking my brain to remember which Ulster home game it was this season when Wallace was literally the break down point for everything Ulster did, then O'Connor came on and ran the show, but again, when the ball got to Wallace he knocked on, made a forward pass, got turned over - I'm not messing, it was like having a 12 year old on the pitch, whenever he got the ball Ulster lost possesion, and I'm talking double digits here.

But I don't know how anybody could entertain the idea of STARTING this guy at 12 with the amount of options at centre, I mean argue to have him in the squad fair enough, but match day 22 is a but much in my book. He's there as cover for 10 as well, so you say yourself he's useless there. I don't Kidney even considers him in the centre. He'll more than likely be on the bench as Sexton isn't ready yet, but if wallace is in to be considered a 12 then Sexton is the only OH cover, which is wrong. That's my point why O'Connor should be in ahead of him.

I don't think he's as bad as some people think.

He's a very talented 12, not an outhalf.

DBraithwaite

What about ian keatly in the panel he is easily as good as sexton if not better. What happens when o'gara injures himself badly we are going to be stuck for an experienced out half that knows how to handle the pressure of playing for ireland. My point is we need to break them in earlier

themont85

DBraithwaite wrote: »

What about ian keatly in the panel he is easily as good as sexton if not better. What happens when o'gara injures himself badly we are going to be stuck for an experienced out half that knows how to handle the pressure of playing for ireland. My point is we need to break them in earlier

Ye i agree. Tony Ward was saying yesterday that he agreed with EOS selection policy not to blood players. I can't believe that tbh, that policy cost us big at the WC. No alternative to ROG when he was muck. For me, it is quite baffling that Ward agrees with this policy. We should be building a core group of at least 30 of which they all have 10 'meaninful'(i.e not as part of an entirely second rate side to play the likes of Canada and not a 2 minute cameo) caps between the WC.

Gelio

Power to Ireland As!!!

DBraithwaite

we have a great system in that we have schools cup rugby it really shows off the best from the rest but then it seems they are being ignored, cut off from the provinces and ultimatly ireland. we are holding young players back afraid of change. we need to break in players now because when the WC comes around players like BOD and ROG will be gone past their best it wont be any good the week before the WC giving guys their first caps.

Gelio

DBraithwaite wrote: »

we have a great system in that we have schools cup rugby it really shows off the best from the rest but then it seems they are being ignored, cut off from the provinces and ultimatly ireland.

I wouldn't say that
Where do the current team come from?

DBraithwaite

What do you mean??

Gelio

DBraithwaite wrote: »

What do you mean??

They all started playing for schools and then became Irish players.

DBraithwaite

yes but the irfu are not focusing enough on the schools cups there is plenty more talent out there!!

Gelio

DBraithwaite wrote: »

yes but the irfu are not focusing enough on the schools cups there is plenty more talent out there!!

Ireland is one of the most advanced rugby countrys in the world when it comes to underage. Not many countrys have a Junior cup. I would imagine if Ireland were to produce an U15 team it would be one of the best in the northern hemisphere if not the world. As for the senior cup, just think that Donnybrook is not a big enough venue for the final and you might be able to understand how seriously it is taken. Then these players move to their provences U19 and U21 until they are brought into the full team (Thats if they are good enough of course). Then from there on to Ireland they go.
So where is the problem?

DBraithwaite

The problem is that the irfu and the irfu scouts are not looking outside the box and are afraid of change they need to look at the youth more because the next world cup will be here in no time and we will fail miserably if we dont introduce youth soon

Gelio

DBraithwaite wrote: »

The problem is that the irfu and the irfu scouts are not looking outside the box and are afraid of change they need to look at the youth more because the next world cup will be here in no time and we will fail miserably if we dont introduce youth soon

Who do you suggest we introduce?

DBraithwaite

ajeffares wrote: »

Who do you suggest we introduce?

i suggest the irfu introduce more scouts and take more in depth look at schools rugby

anonymous_joe

ajeffares wrote: »

Who do you suggest we introduce?

Many have advocated a league and doing away with the cup altogether.

Gelio

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Many have advocated a league and doing away with the cup altogether.

This has advantages and disadvantages

DBraithwaite wrote: »

i suggest the irfu introduce more scouts and take more in depth look at schools rugby

I mean what players should we introduce to the Ireland team?

[Jackass]

France have by far the best youth system in Europe followed by England.

I always thought our system was very good too, until I heard about their system. They have proper professional academys than train and raise these players. After school level there is massively more resources and youth teams of a much higher standard than here then the very best are drafted into club teams.

When you look at the very peak of players produced, in fairness we're not far off any team with talent available. The real difference is the sheer volume of talent available and pool to pick from. IMO it wouldn't surprise me if France could name an uncapped 15 side capable of winning a grand slam such is the depth of their talent.

England wiped the floor at the churchill cup.

We have a decent youth development system and centraly contracted players is a massive bonus, but our academys are small and underage provincial players usually are selected from clubs. Nothing compared to other nations.

DBraithwaite

[Jackass] wrote: »

France have by far the best youth system in Europe followed by England.

I always thought our system was very good too, until I heard about their system. They have proper professional academys than train and raise these players. After school level there is massively more resources and youth teams of a much higher standard than here then the very best are drafted into club teams.

When you look at the very peak of players produced, in fairness we're not far off any team with talent available. The real difference is the sheer volume of talent available and pool to pick from. IMO it wouldn't surprise me if France could name an uncapped 15 side capable of winning a grand slam such is the depth of their talent.

England wiped the floor at the churchill cup.

We have a decent youth development system and centraly contracted players is a massive bonus, but our academys are small and underage provincial players usually are selected from clubs. Nothing compared to other nations.

France showed their strong youth ranks during this years 6 nations when they nearly won with nearly a full team of youngsters. the only experienced players were heymans, clerc and polous amongst a few others

Serenity Now!

[Jackass] wrote: »

France have by far the best youth system in Europe followed by England

The Welsh youths system is also excellent. Their underage sides have some tremendous talent indeed.

Stev_o

IRFU arent going to waste money on trying to find talent and 3/4's of it not every making it beyond academy. Plus i cant see the point of flooding the school system with more scouts its biased enough as it is, the more obvious tactic is to get the Youths system (Club version) on par with its school counter part as it is neglected and shunned by the development officers.

thehighground

Interesting comments from Luke Fitzgerland about the Schools Cup in an interview in Sindo today.

"When I was finished with schools' rugby, I was finished with it. I think the problem for a lot of guys is that they can't see beyond it. It's the pinnacle for them and they don't play much afterwards. Maybe that's a problem with the system. They're losing out on guys who finish school and just stop playing. They lose interest after the Senior Cup."

Full interview with Luke Fitzgerald here:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/born-to-be-great-1517465.html

anonymous_joe

Sadly it's fairly well known by now that the drop off is getting scary.

Of my year in school, a few of the lads on the S's that year would still be playing, but plenty of talented lads never bothered keeping it up.

Add to that, a lot of guys have huge success at that age level because they're bigger than those they're competing with. As time passes, they lose that advantage and drift away from the game, while the lads who might have blossomed later are long since gone.

Serenity Now!

DBraithwaite wrote: »

The problem is that the irfu and the irfu scouts are not looking outside the box and are afraid of change they need to look at the youth more because the next world cup will be here in no time and we will fail miserably if we dont introduce youth soon

???
They do look at the youth players in the game here and playing in other countries. They were very busy during the U18 and U20 tournaments played this year, for example. The Academy system is still pretty new but hard at it. The high performance dept then selects some players for the step up from club to province or province to international.

Gelio

thehighground wrote: »

Interesting comments from Luke Fitzgerland about the Schools Cup in an interview in Sindo today.

"When I was finished with schools' rugby, I was finished with it. I think the problem for a lot of guys is that they can't see beyond it. It's the pinnacle for them and they don't play much afterwards. Maybe that's a problem with the system. They're losing out on guys who finish school and just stop playing. They lose interest after the Senior Cup."

Full interview with Luke Fitzgerald here:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/born-to-be-great-1517465.html

That is very true and is a real problem. So what could be done? Some people say play less rugby in schools so the players don't burn out, but then the standard won't be half as good. Maybe if the acadamys took on more players because your not going to give up rugby if you are playing for your provinces under age acadamy in all honesty. Any other Ideas?

Stev_o

ajeffares wrote: »

That is very true and is a real problem. So what could be done? Some people say play less rugby in schools so the players don't burn out, but then the standard won't be half as good. Maybe if the acadamys took on more players because your not going to give up rugby if you are playing for your provinces under age acadamy in all honesty. Any other Ideas?

Its nothing to do with burnout its to do with interest, most of them dont give a sh1t once their finished with schools rugby to them its the end all and be all of rugby and most will stop there. Academys wont be able to afford to take in even more players and plus as i said the amount of those people who will go on to play professional rugby is slim to none and will either waste away in Leinster A games or if they are half serious about having a career in rugby will go to England to play in ND1 and hopefully get spotted by one of the linked "big" clubs.

Gelio

Stev_o wrote: »

Its nothing to do with burnout its to do with interest, most of them dont give a sh1t once their finished with schools rugby to them its the end all and be all of rugby and most will stop there. Academys wont be able to afford to take in even more players and plus as i said the amount of those people who will go on to play professional rugby is slim to none and will either waste away in Leinster A games or if they are half serious about having a career in rugby will go to England to play in ND1 and hopefully get spotted by one of the linked "big" clubs.

So whats the solution?

Stev_o

ajeffares wrote: »

So whats the solution?

Refine what we have. As i said get the Youth systems on par with the schools system with the same level of coaching etc

There's hardly a crisis in underage development at the moment there still is a steady stream and we are NEVER going to have the resources nor the pool of players to get the same results as the English or French or even to a extent the Welsh. Rugby is third choice sport behind football and GAA considering we have managed to achieve a hell of alot with that statistic i think we are doing okay. Until rugby becomes 1st or 2nd choice then everything will need to be re looked at. We can just use what we have and improve on it where possible.

remus808

Stev_o wrote: »

we are NEVER going to have the resources nor the pool of players to get the same results as the English or French or even to a extent the Welsh.

Heineken Cup Final 05-06 wrote:

Munster 23 - 19 Biarritz

Heineken Cup Final 07-08 wrote:

Munster 16 - 13 Tolouse

Heineken Cup 08-09 wrote:

Leinster 41 - 11 Wasps

Challenge Cup 08-09 wrote:

Connacht 30 - 12 Dax

Magner's League Table 07-08 wrote:

Leinster 18 13 1 4 428 283 +145 44 30 4 3 61 [Champions]

Summer Internationals wrote:

Australia 18 - 12 Ireland
New Zealand 21 - 11 Ireland
Ireland 39 - 13 Barbarians

New Zealand 44 - 12 England
New Zealand 37- 20 England
England 17 - 14 Barbarians

Australia 40 - 10 France
Australia 34 - 13 France

We're more than able to compete.

SpAcEd OuT

Stev_o wrote: »

Refine what we have. As i said get the Youth systems on par with the schools system with the same level of coaching etc

There's hardly a crisis in underage development at the moment there still is a steady stream and we are NEVER going to have the resources nor the pool of players to get the same results as the English or French or even to a extent the Welsh. Rugby is third choice sport behind football and GAA considering we have managed to achieve a hell of alot with that statistic i think we are doing okay. Until rugby becomes 1st or 2nd choice then everything will need to be re looked at. We can just use what we have and improve on it where possible.

Maybe I am wrong but I could of sworn I heard somewhere that we have the same size pool for Rugby as Australia yet they are so far ahead.

Stev_o

karmabass wrote: »

We're more than able to compete.

What your pointing out has nothing to do with im discussing.

The talk was about underage players and the fact that we havent been able to get x amount of players into the professional set up. Im talking about Ireland vs anyone im talking about how many players we can produce at underage level the quality of those players and the % that are able to then go on and play at professional level