Ireland Team Announcement

Serenity Now!

redroar1942 wrote: »

Probably one of the more idiotic and badly worded posts I've read in a while. Everyone one of your points are factually wrong.

His first point wasn't.
Rugby Union is not the first sport in any of the countries he listed.

RugbyFanatic

Stev_o wrote: »

The guy is riddled with a life threatening disease pretty much and is all but retired from rugby. This is talking when he was still playing.

My whole point was that you cannot ignore/pick a player based on how he has done in the past. You ignore/pick the player on how he is playing presently.

And MOK has been better than POC,DOC and far, far better than MOD this season.

runny babbit

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

My whole point was that you cannot ignore/pick a player based on how he has done in the past. You ignore/pick the player on how he is playing presently.

And MOK has been better than POC,DOC and far, far better than MOD this season.

Moc is & has always a great option in the line out, nobody disputes that.But it was always his scrum-grunt that was suspect along with his mobility around the field. I do agree that he should be in before Mod though..que backlash..

MikeHoncho

runny babbit wrote: »

Moc is & has always a great option in the line out, nobody disputes that.But it was always his scrum-grunt that was suspect along with his mobility around the field. I do agree that he should be in before Mod though..que backlash..

His mobility is much improved this season though. He is seemingly everywhere on the pitch at once at times. Also ive never seen O'Connell or O'Callaghan score a try from their own 22 but I have seen MOK do it.

runny babbit

MikeHoncho wrote: »

His mobility is much improved this season though. He is seemingly everywhere on the pitch at once at times. Also ive never seen O'Connell or O'Callaghan score a try from their own 22 but I have seen MOK do it.

Thats what backs are for..Its the grunt he"s a little short of. With the lighter frount row we have you need poc and doc to counteract it..

anonymous_joe

I don't think either Munster second row has been playing astounding rugby this season. I'm a fan of O'Connell, but I do think he's a bit overrated, or more accurately overhyped. On form, I think Cullen and O'Kelly were doing better this season, but Declan Kidney was always going to pick his lads.

Out of curiosity, would Nick Kennedy, now of the England squad have been eligible for Ireland?

redroar1942

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I don't think either Munster second row has been playing astounding rugby this season. I'm a fan of O'Connell, but I do think he's a bit overrated, or more accurately overhyped. On form, I think Cullen and O'Kelly were doing better this season, but Declan Kidney was always going to pick his lads.

Out of curiosity, would Nick Kennedy, now of the England squad have been eligible for Ireland?

No I dont think he is. It's dissapointing that you think the national coach would base his selection on the players province.

phog

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I don't think either Munster second row has been playing astounding rugby this season. I'm a fan of O'Connell, but I do think he's a bit overrated, or more accurately overhyped. On form, I think Cullen and O'Kelly were doing better this season, but Declan Kidney was always going to pick his lads.

Out of curiosity, would Nick Kennedy, now of the England squad have been eligible for Ireland?

I thought Cullen was injured?

remus808

runny babbit wrote: »

With the lighter frount row we have you need poc and doc to counteract it..

DOC: 17 st 5 lbs
POC: 17 st 7 lb
MOK: 18 st 5 lb

Less nonsense please.

RugbyFanatic

karmabass wrote: »

DOC: 17 st 5 lbs
POC: 17 st 7 lb
MOK: 18 st 5 lb

Less nonsense please.

I honestly don't know why people feel the need to create excuses as to why MOK shouldn't be on the team. Did he eat some children or something? because there seems to be many who don't want him on the team for the sake of it.

The argument of his age should also be null and void because with two important tests against Argentina and NZ coming up Kidney should be playing the most inform players not the hottest prospects.

This whole can't keep up argument is bull**** as well he is just as fit as his Irish teammates not once has he looked out of breath he is fitter than ever this season.

Danger_Dave

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I honestly don't know why people feel the need to create excuses as to why MOK shouldn't be on the team.

Its not an excuse. The guy is in fantastic form but he's not going to be around in two years time. These internationals are not just about RWC seeding. This is about building a team for this years six nations and building a Squad for the next four years in all competitions. Unfortnately MOK is not in that plan. So he should be out of the squad.

Mick O'Driscoll should also be out of the squad for younger blood who may fit into that plan.

Podge_irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

On form, I think Cullen and O'Kelly were doing better this season, but Declan Kidney was always going to pick his lads.

Out of curiosity, would Nick Kennedy, now of the England squad have been eligible for Ireland?

I imagine Cullen would be starting or at least on the bench were he not injured. We'll never know now though I guess!

I believe Kennedy is dual qualified, though he was born and bred in England.

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I honestly don't know why people feel the need to create excuses as to why MOK shouldn't be on the team. Did he eat some children or something? because there seems to be many who don't want him on the team for the sake of it.

Seems he has a neck injury. Looks like he is getting a rest for the ABs

Gaffney also discussed the non-selection of Malcolm O'Kelly, Ireland's most-capped player, for the Canada game, clearing up some misguided speculation in the press.

"This is not the end of Malcolm's career. Malcolm has been spoken to, he knows where he sits in this regard.

"I think you'll find, not pre-empting things, but there is every chance Malcolm could be back in next week.

"Malcolm, at this point in time, has been suffering from a slight neck injury. He's been bothered by that for a lot of the year.

"It probably was a fairly good time for Malcolm to have the week off, because there was no point, if he wasn't going to be in the 22, having him here in the 34 to hold a tackle bag."

http://www.irishrugby.ie/13910_14933.php

The argument of his age should also be null and void because with two important tests against Argentina and NZ coming up Kidney should be playing the most inform players not the hottest prospects.

This whole can't keep up argument is bull**** as well he is just as fit as his Irish teammates not once has he looked out of breath he is fitter than ever this season.

Rugby is a team game and you seem to forget that Leinster were well beaten by Munster when they played a few week ago. The only aspect where Leinster were better was in the lineout. The Munster backrow really outplayed the Leinster backrow (and I realise Rocky had only arrived etc), but tbh, I actually thought the Munster players seemed to be on a completely different level of fitness to their Leinster counterparts. Shane Jennings looked pedestrian and one gallop down the pitch by Mal doesn't mean he is up to 80mins against the ABs. Now those guys are fit.

anonymous_joe

redroar1942 wrote: »

No I dont think he is. It's dissapointing that you think the national coach would base his selection on the players province.

I don't view it as a positive, but I didn't mean it as a criticism. Declan Kidney was the Munster coach. Those are the guys he's been coaching week in week out for how long exactly? He knows them better, and can rely on them more in his mind.

I appreciate how it sounded, but it wasn't an attack on him for being from Munster. Sure I don't hold that against him much.

phog wrote: »

I thought Cullen was injured?

He is yeah, I just meant on relative form up until now.

Podge_irl wrote: »

I imagine Cullen would be starting or at least on the bench were he not injured. We'll never know now though I guess!

I believe Kennedy is dual qualified, though he was born and bred in England.

Me too regards Cullen.

Yeah, I assumed as much with Kennedy, fair whack of Oirish over in England after all. The big loss was probably Geraghty, mainly because he can play at 10, although his reasons for choosing England are laudable enough.

thehighground wrote: »

Seems he has a neck injury. Looks like he is getting a rest for the ABs





Rugby is a team game and you seem to forget that Leinster were well beaten by Munster when they played a few week ago. The only aspect where Leinster were better was in the lineout. The Munster backrow really outplayed the Leinster backrow (and I realise Rocky had only arrived etc), but tbh, I actually thought the Munster players seemed to be on a completely different level of fitness to their Leinster counterparts. Shane Jennings looked pedestrian and one gallop down the pitch by Mal doesn't mean he is up to 80mins against the ABs. Now those guys are fit.

Hmmm. Well beaten is potentially a misnomer. Think in the pack it was a very even game. Leinster probably have the best backrow in the Northern Hemisphere at the moment, (arguably) it is a massive strength. Munster have some superb players in their backrow, although some of them are coming to the end of their illustrious careers.

Actually one thing I've been joking about with my mates came true - I suggested dropping Wallace to the bench for easier games to see what he could do as an impact sub. :pac:

RugbyFanatic

Re : MOK

great to hear that he is only excluded because of injury.

If MOK comes into the 22 next week (though I would like to see him start), Kearney is moved to full back and depending on how he performs Flannery is replaced with Best overall I would be extrememly satisfied.

(Obviously Ferris and Buckley to be replaced as well)

Noopti

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Re : MOK

great to hear that he is only excluded because of injury.

If MOK comes into the 22 next week (though I would like to see him start), Kearney is moved to full back and depending on how he performs Flannery is replaced with Best overall I would be extrememly satisfied.

(Obviously Ferris and Buckley to be replaced as well)

If O'Connell & O'Callaghan play well together (even if it is Canada) then I can't see Deccie dropping Mal into the starting 15 for the All Blacks game. I think a bench spot would be all Mal can hope for at this point. If our lineout is stuttering again NZ then he is the ideal person to bring on. However it would be a tough call to make, especially if O'Connell and O'Callaghan are playing well in the loose.

It is a great idea to play Ferris and Buckley tomorrow, it would give them much needed test game time, and they could then be great impact subs agains the All Blacks.

Overall, Deccie will have some tough calls to make next week, especially if this team run amok against Canada and combine well.

RugbyFanatic

Noopti wrote: »

It is a great idea to play Ferris and Buckley tomorrow, it would give them much needed test game time, and they could then be great impact subs agains the All Blacks.

I was referring to the AB game.


And also lets say DOC and POC do have excellent games tomorrow essentially it means nothing because it is to be expected against such poor opposition hopefully Kidney will see that

Noopti

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I was referring to the AB game.


And also lets say DOC and POC do have excellent games tomorrow essentially it means nothing because it is to be expected against such poor opposition hopefully Kidney will see that

Yeah, I know. I was just saying that it is great that they are playing tomorrow. Wasn't in reference to what you said.

But I disagree with what you say about it meaning nothing if DOC and POC (and any other players for that matter) play excellently. If anything it means quite a lot if they show true grit, controlled agression, hunger, patience and cohesion against a team they are expected to beat easily. It is far easier to motivate people for All Blacks games.

If the players go out there and play selfishly, are forcing things or otherwise not impressing as a team, then I would be very worried - even if they do win handsomely. I want to see them gain a real grip over Canada, go through the phases early and break them down methodically. There is no point chasing a big score early in the match, they can beat them up for 55-60 minutes,keep the score ticking over and then cut loose if the situation presents itself in the last 20 or so minutes.

The All Blacks would crush a team like Canada, but they would do it systematically, probably scoring the majority of their tries in the last 15-20 minutes. I want to see this Irish team display the same ruthless effeciency.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I don't view it as a positive, but I didn't mean it as a criticism. Declan Kidney was the Munster coach. Those are the guys he's been coaching week in week out for how long exactly? He knows them better, and can rely on them more in his mind.

Out of interest, what do you think Gert Smal and Alan Gaffney's contribution is to the national set-up? Do you think they have any input on selection?

He is yeah, I just meant on relative form up until now.

Me too regards Cullen.[/QUOTE]

Leo & Jennings have not reached the heights they did when playing for Leicester.

Hmmm. Well beaten is potentially a misnomer. Think in the pack it was a very even game. Leinster probably have the best backrow in the Northern Hemisphere at the moment, (arguably) it is a massive strength. Munster have some superb players in their backrow, although some of them are coming to the end of their illustrious careers.

It was fairly even up to about the the 60th minute (which is when Munster upped the tempo of the game (bringing on oldies Quinlan & stringer;)) and then Munster scored 2 trys - Jennings looked finished when Howlett scored. Heaslip (among others) missed Melck, which is why I suggest that the Munster lads are way fitter than the Leinster lads (I excused Rocky as it was his first game with Leinster).

I wouldn't quite write off Munster's backrow yet - Nick Williams is on the way to help out with the 'oldies' situation.

Heroditas

redroar1942 wrote: »

Probably one of the more idiotic and badly worded posts I've read in a while. Everyone one of your points are factually wrong.

:rolleyes:


Anyway ..... to look at the points I made.
We can't trot out the excuse of rugby being a minority sport in this country. It is a minority sport in plenty of other countries too. These countries perform at a very high level while we flounder.
Do we have more players than Scotland? 25171 senior players versus 10566. Ireland has more professional teams also. Despite all these advantages, what have we won?
Wales:
Welsh registered senior players: IRB site states that the total number of players is 47000.
They've managed 2 Grand Slams this decade.

Now, which facts of mine were wrong?

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

Out of interest, what do you think Gert Smal and Alan Gaffney's contribution is to the national set-up? Do you think they have any input on selection?

Me too regards Cullen.

I've no idea if I'm honest. I'd assume they've some impact, but no idea to what extent.

Leo & Jennings have not reached the heights they did when playing for Leicester.

I don't know, I've watched every Leinster game this season, and Jennings has been very good in some of them.

It was fairly even up to about the the 60th minute (which is when Munster upped the tempo of the game (bringing on oldies Quinlan & stringer;)) and then Munster scored 2 trys - Jennings looked finished when Howlett scored. Heaslip (among others) missed Melck, which is why I suggest that the Munster lads are way fitter than the Leinster lads (I excused Rocky as it was his first game with Leinster).

I wouldn't quite write off Munster's backrow yet - Nick Williams is on the way to help out with the 'oldies' situation.

Munster won the game clearly, won't deny that.

And I'm not writing off Munster's backrow, I think Leinster right now have the three best backrow players, given the age of some. I don't doubt that Munster will have a great backrow again.

Heroditas wrote: »

:rolleyes:


Anyway ..... to look at the points I made.
We can't trot out the excuse of rugby being a minority sport in this country. It is a minority sport in plenty of other countries too. These countries perform at a very high level while we flounder.
Do we have more players than Scotland? 25171 senior players versus 10566. Ireland has more professional teams also. Despite all these advantages, what have we won?
Wales:
Welsh registered senior players: IRB site states that the total number of players is 47000.
They've managed 2 Grand Slams this decade.

Now, which facts of mine were wrong?

We've done a lot better than Scotland since professionalism.

Wales have won a lot less games than us, and won two grand slams. They're erratic as hell.