Atheist why live?

S_Truth

jaffa20 wrote: »

Ugh, this has turned into a philosophical rant because of the OP. He or She seems to think they have found this eureka moment and uses it against atheists.

The ideas you bring up are relevant to everyone in society, not just atheists so i don't see why you come here with your existentialist depressing rants when they can be extented to everyone on this earth. Take it to personal issues and don't forget to take your happy pills tomorrow!!

i speak to atheist because they limit themselves by not finding this infinite energy by saying it does not exist. And this infinite energy does not exist outsided of a person its in you, it just has to be discovered.

why limit yourself from understanding the infinite energy around you and in you. All I have to say stop being stubborn and search for what you cannot understand and see where it leads you. Otherwise your life is pointless.

jill_valentine

S Truth, I'm not trying to be funny, but is English your second language?

S_Truth

jill_valentine wrote: »

S Truth, I'm not trying to be funny, but is English your second language?

I wasn't concerned about grammar when i wrote the post. Its a funny thing when I spoke to an english teacher in university, she told me people born with english as their first language have a difficult time writting english. In a lower level english class there are more Caucasian students who have english as their first language than ones that have english as a second language. And this is true not only in Canada, but also the US. Its an interesting fact, I thought I would share it with you.

Overheal

Ah now see, I don't think I needed God to tell me you're a Troll.

S_Truth

Overheal wrote: »

Ah now see, I don't think I needed God to tell me you're a Troll.

Such kind words coming from such a intelligent person.

Zillah

This is getting worse and worse. He's not a troll, he's just a crazy person. That or socially obtuse, like aspergers or something.

Zillah

S_Truth wrote: »

i speak to atheist because they limit themselves by not finding this infinite energy by saying it does not exist. And this infinite energy does not exist outsided of a person its in you, it just has to be discovered.

Blah blah blah blah magic powers blah blah blah.

Crumble Froo

S_Truth wrote: »

Actually the moral purpose of life is to win. You see this in sports, schools, in tv ratings, Government elections. Our whole life is spent on winning to get some satisfaction that we have accomplished something in life. And this accomplishment becomes pointless because the end result for every human as atheist say is death. Everything in between is useless for we are just living to die.

ok, even that point.. the purpose of life is to win? meh, your life maybe. the purpose in schooling is to educate yourself, to better yourself, your opportunities, and to gain an understanding of the world around you (depending on your subjects of interest). tv ratings, government elections... are you for real? they are not a part of every day life for most people.
as for sport... some sports, perhaps. my sport of choice is surfing, and that's not about winning. sure, there's competitions, if you wish to partake, which i never have, and probably never will. it's not about winning or losing, it's about enjoying the ride. doing the best you can.

as for everything in between being useless, and just living to die, well, why clean the house, if it's just going to get dirty again. maybe you're the kinda person who'd play sport just to see a trophy at the end, im the kind who enjoys the outdoors air, the teamwork, the adrenaline, just the whole experience.

perhaps believing that what we have now is all we've got, means i can appreciate everything more, make the most of my life, not just submit to the humdrum 9-5, believing it'll all get better when i die. :pac:

S_Truth wrote: »

why have goals in between birth and death if no matter what one does the end result is death? No satisfaction just man left clueless at the end with death to take away the man. A logical person would ask this question because without answering it the whole of man as I described is useless. And this makes an atheist life useless

i would rather think that helping people, putting effort into conservation, and just basically giving a shit about the world around me, and its future makes for a life more useful than one spent just waiting around for the next life.

S_Truth wrote: »

I have not losted or losing my faith. All I am doing is asking simple questions, which you guys are having a hard time to answer.

The only thing you guys have to say is this guy is this and that.

Atheist do wonder what will happen at the end, its just they are in denial of it. Humans are skeptic people and are always wondering what will happen next and to say you dont care what will happen then why do you care what is going on right now.

of course i wondered. and i thought about it. and my skepticism came to the conclusion that there is no life after death. that life is a circle for us, same way it is for animals, bugs, whatever...

Why be moral when there is no reason to be more. Skeptism is what drives a human to understand more and accomplish more, pushing the limits. And you cant say this is not true because look at science advancements atheist cling to science as the truth and to prove everything. But what is the point if you die at the end you would be the same without finding all of this.

as an atheist, i do not cling to science as truth. my big worry is that you are only moral because you are told to be. of course there is reason to be moral without having to believe in an afterlife. i find it hard to get my head around that way of thinking, tbh. you do good things, to help people, or to help yourself. life is more pleasant when people get along.




and damn, i thought i'd selected for quoting your post about being hemmed in by society's rules. emmm... religion? it's all about rules. you say it yourself in your attitude towards morality, why do it if you don't have a religion to tell you to do it?

Zombrex

S_Truth wrote: »

So really there is no reason for an atheist to live. To live for a moral life is useless because the end result is the same as living a destructive life; death.

That is a rather silly thing to say.

It is like claiming there is no difference between walking to work in the morning saying hello to everyone as you pass and walking to work in the morning shooting everyone in the head as you pass, because in both situations you end up in work.

A good moral life improves the lives of those around you. A destructive life harms those around you. If the goal is to lead a life that doesn't harm those around you then clearly both ways of living your life are not the same.

S_Truth wrote: »

All the stuff done inbetween birth and death are pointless because you are just living to die and all the accomplishments are just a waste that leads no where.

Again a very silly thing to say.

It is like saying that there is no point eating a cake you really like because when you finish it the cake is gone. This argument (obviously) ignores the enjoyment that one has while eating the cake. In fact that is the purpose of the cake in the first place, to be eaten for enjoyment, not to last forever being uneaten.

(I'm on an analogy role here)

If there is no existence after death, as many atheists suspect, then it is even more important to live this life to the full because it is the only one you are going to get. For most people that means trying to be happy and for many people, including myself, my happiness is related to how happy others around me are.

S_Truth wrote: »

Also for atheist call things that they cannot understand supernatural.

I don't think many atheists call things they don't understand "supernatural" .. that is a term many used by religious/spiritualist people, though it is used by atheists certain. Most atheists on this forum would call things they don't understand as things they don't understand. Calling something supernatural implies a level of understand that most atheists would recognise we don't have.

S_Truth wrote: »

so is there a force behind this energy or is the energy just itself, which man trys to control but fails.

"Death" isn't a force of energy. Death is a state one's body finds itself in when various biological components no longer function due to damage. This state can be caused by energy, such as kinetic energy (being hit by a bus) or thermal energy (being burnt in a fire)

S_Truth wrote: »

Also we have goals in life to achieve, but these goals in life are useless for the end result is death.

They are useless only within the context of stopping death or prolonging life. If that is someones goal then they are useless, but not if someones goal is something else, such as leading a happy existence.

S_Truth wrote: »

Lastly, why have goals in between birth and death if no matter what one does the end result is death?

Because it makes ones life happy. And it is more enjoyable to lead a happy life than a miserable life.



On a side not, why do some ... ummm ... interesting posters always choose to go crazy with the FONT and COLOR options on Boards?

Zombrex

S_Truth wrote: »

i speak to atheist because they limit themselves by not finding this infinite energy by saying it does not exist.

All energy is infinite, that is what the Conservation of Energy law in physics says.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply changes state.

S_Truth wrote: »

why limit yourself from understanding the infinite energy around you and in you.

I understand the infinite energy around me and in me quite well thank you very much. I understand it enough to model it in quite a lot of detail, and people smart than me can model it in even greater detail down to the sub-atomic level.

S_Truth wrote: »

All I have to say stop being stubborn and search for what you cannot understand and see where it leads you. Otherwise your life is pointless.

Search for what you cannot understand?

You have obviously never tried dating an Irish girl before ...

extopia

Just because you're not an atheist does not mean life after death exists.

DarkJager

Life is just a game to be played...The fact that we will all die someday is irrelevant to that.It will be the end of course but its not something to worry about. It really depends on what your view of life is.

Some people believe in religions because they are scared that without a deity to have faith in, there is nothing to existence. IMO it is these people who suffer the most, their lives constantly being ruled by this fear of going to hell or whatever, when they really should just be enjoying their life whatever way they see fit.

When I die thats it. Game Over. To me, there is no such thing as a heaven or hell. Its just going to be my shell in a cold dark box.

extopia

DarkJager wrote: »

When I die thats it. Game Over. To me, there is no such thing as a heaven or hell.

You are of course correct. There is no credible alternative to this, unfortunately for all of us.

axer

S_Truth wrote: »

My question to an atheist is: What is the end goal of an atheist who lives a good moral life?

The happiness of knowing you lived a good moral life.

I don't need to be frightened of what will happen to me after I die to make me live a good life (e.g. hell) nor do I need to encouraged via the promise of a prize after death to make me live a good life (e.g. heaven). I believe in living a good moral life e.g. put yourself in the other person's shoes, for fairness's sake and because I know that will make me happier than any other way of living.

I, like the other poster above, worry for the people that need god and heaven (and hell) to make them be good moral people - are they truly good people?

Daemonic

S_Truth wrote: »

why have goals in between birth and death if no matter what one does the end result is death? No satisfaction just man left clueless at the end with death to take away the man. A logical person would ask this question because without answering it the whole of man as I described is useless. And this makes an atheist life useless

And opposite of this being a life spent watching the morality scoreboard in the sky waiting to die and get your reward. Now when it turns out that death really is the end then yours is the wasted life and that really is sad and depressing.

The reason, I believe, that an atheist would choose to live a moral life, is simply because, while you, S_Truth, believe your life has consequence when you die, others believe their life has consequence while they are still alive, that is to say, why would they want to hurt another person, when, if they are still alive tomorrow, they will have to face that person, you may have 80 years of life to live, why would you choose to live each of those days immorally - resulting only in people around you hating you and being unahppy, that would not be life, life is for living, not for dying.

So, to answer your question, I believe that Atheists live for the people who they can see around them, who help them, who love them, and not for some unknown being that "might" be there when they die, judging them on every day of their happy lives.

Gordon

S_Truth wrote: »

So really there is no reason for an atheist to live.

You haven't been reading what people have been writing.

Do you do this often? If you do, is it because it doesn't matter in the end because you will go to heaven and everything will be ok when that happens?

robindch

S_Truth wrote: »

An atheist moral purpose of life makes no sense whatsoever.

Much better to be a good person because it's the right thing to do, rather than trying to be good because you're frightened of stories that tell of an invisible sky-bunny with a big stick.

The rather frightening idea behind the common religious "you can't be nice if you don't believe that god exists" thought, is that it seems at least possible that such people are speaking from personal experience. Namely, that without these stories to frighten them into submission, they believe there's a fair chance they'd be out there, behaving as badly as they wanted to. Religion may well be performing a service to society by repressing these anti-social individuals.

ChocolateSauce

robindch wrote: »

Much better to be a good person because it's the right thing to do, rather than trying to be good because you're frightened of stories that tell of an invisible sky-bunny with a big stick.

The rather frightening idea behind the common religious "you can't be nice if you don't believe that god exists" thought, is that it seems at least possible that such people are speaking from personal experience. Namely, that without these stories to frighten them into submission, they believe there's a fair chance they'd be out there, behaving as badly as they wanted to. Religion may well be performing a service to society by repressing these anti-social individuals.

We've all heard the anecdotes where people in fundamentalist forums talk almost gleefully about how religion makes them moral, and how without it they themselves say they'd probably be murders and rapists. Truly chilling how many people cannot grasp what it means to be moral...

tricky D

S_Truth wrote: »

So really there is no reason for an atheist to live.

Trolltastic stuff.

I wonder to the contrary. Why do people who believe in a super duper ressurrection after death not hurry to shuffle off this mortal coil and stop wasting their time in this inferior life?

As something of an aside, some might like this take on morals and ethical development: Kohlberg's stages of moral development

Lazare

We don't 'choose' to lead a moral life. We've evolved morals, just like we've evolved bipedality. We're a social animal (the most social), and our species success thus far has depended heavily on morals and altruism.
If we had a natural desire to murder rape and pillage, coupled with a sexual attraction to people who carry out such acts, our species would not have lasted beyond a hundred generations. Ancestor's who lived a good life found it easier to survive and pass on their genes, with the next generation inheriting those sucessful traits.

Simple natural selection tbh.

ConmanTheKiller

tricky D wrote: »

As something of an aside, some might like this take on morals and ethical development: Kohlberg's stages of moral development

We really have seen the two extreme stages in this thread.

Zillah

tricky D wrote: »

As something of an aside, some might like this take on morals and ethical development: Kohlberg's stages of moral development

That's quite interesting. I'm not sure I understand stage six...is it actually just a fancy way of describing moral absolutism based on actions rather than consequences?

AtomicHorror

S_Truth wrote: »

My question to an atheist is: What is the end goal of an atheist who lives a good moral life?

Why after-live? Just because it'll be a nice experience? Does it not follow that if you can enjoy your actual life that its worth living just for the experience?

AtomicHorror

Deleted User wrote: »

The reason, I believe, that an atheist would choose to live a moral life, is simply because, while you, S_Truth, believe your life has consequence when you die, others believe their life has consequence while they are still alive, that is to say, why would they want to hurt another person, when, if they are still alive tomorrow, they will have to face that person, you may have 80 years of life to live, why would you choose to live each of those days immorally - resulting only in people around you hating you and being unahppy, that would not be life, life is for living, not for dying.

So, to answer your question, I believe that Atheists live for the people who they can see around them, who help them, who love them, and not for some unknown being that "might" be there when they die, judging them on every day of their happy lives.

Pretty much my take. I would add that a person that requires an objective morality axis complete with cosmic punishment/reward system in order to act morally is just not recognising the punishment/rewards system that actually exists in life. Or is not actually respondant to it due to being self-obsessed and/or non-empathic.

ConmanTheKiller

S_Truth wrote: »

My question to an atheist is: What is the end goal of an atheist who lives a good moral life?

I would explain, but I would just be repeating what nearly everyone else has said already. You do not need a punishment and reward system if you are truly a moral person, those who do must not be moral people by default.

A Primal Nut

S_Truth wrote: »

I have not losted or losing my faith. All I am doing is asking simple questions, which you guys are having a hard time to answer.

The only thing you guys have to say is this guy is this and that.

Atheist do wonder what will happen at the end, its just they are in denial of it. Humans are skeptic people and are always wondering what will happen next and to say you dont care what will happen then why do you care what is going on right now. Why be moral when there is no reason to be more. Skeptism is what drives a human to understand more and accomplish more, pushing the limits. And you cant say this is not true because look at science advancements atheist cling to science as the truth and to prove everything. But what is the point if you die at the end you would be the same without finding all of this.

What I have come to is atheist are scared to move beyond this world and find other distractions like drinking alcohol to fill the empty hole of not knowing what will happen to them after death. They avoid what they cannot understand because then the pride of the person is hurt. Which is the only thing what an atheist as because they do not believe in the higher power. God for me is nto a person who sits in the sky and judges neither is he a person nor a object. It is that energy that force that drives this whole universe and to be one with this God (energy) is to live absolutely consciously and to work on the soul that yearns for the higher power.

Ask yourself why do you have a yearning to live and a yearning for other things in life when for you death is the ultimate result. The things we strive for in life are limited with limited success and happiness. This energy is not limited by this world or universe. So this is why I choose not to be an atheist because an atheist limits himself not seeing we humans are not limited, when absorbed into this energy.

Ok, so your moral for completely selfish reasons.
I am moral because i'm driven to be that way, its part of who I am and I can't imagine it being any other way. Its half genes, half culture i guess.

Yes this life is pointless, doesn't mean we can't enjoy it. Just because we don't believe in something as rediculous as the christian god doesn't mean we can ignore our genetic instincts

I know more christian people that drink heavy than religious ones.

As for God judging people he seems to care a lot more about where someone is born than anything else. Choice of religion is related to geography nothing else. God is rascist. His treatment of philistines in the bible is horrendous. I don't want this sick person judging me id rather go to hell.

I don't understand how you say we have a hard time answering you - there are loads of perfectly good answers in this thread - you've been owned bad.

AtomicHorror

S_Truth wrote: »

Ask yourself why do you have a yearning to live and a yearning for other things in life when for you death is the ultimate result.

If you have three kids, two with the "yearning to live" and one with no will to live at all, which of them will be the most likely to have kids of their own? Repeat that for a few million generations and you find the survival instinct in all living things. There's no big mystery.

S_Truth wrote: »

The things we strive for in life are limited with limited success and happiness. This energy is not limited by this world or universe.

Where is the evidence for that?

S_Truth wrote: »

So this is why I choose not to be an atheist because an atheist limits himself not seeing we humans are not limited, when absorbed into this energy.

What energy? Where is it? How can I measure it? Atheists are limited only by what we may observe or imagine. What sets us apart from you is our ability to tell the difference between the two.

Schuhart

S_Truth wrote: »

My question to an atheist is: What is the end goal of an atheist who lives a good moral life?

I’ll give anyone the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances. In fairness, I think the thread offers plenty of material relevant to the space your talking about. But I feel there’s just a nuance not quite covered off.

Indeed, as you say it, we hold that life has no divinely ordained purpose. Nor do we hold that life was a planned occurrence, in the sense that a religion would envisage. So, while as we know scientists like Dawkins would bristle at the suggestion that evolution is random as that’s not an adequate description of the mechanism through which it operates, indeed, we can envisage a reality where there would be no species capable of any kind of conscious appreciation of the situation we exist in. So, in the sense that you mean it (assuming you believe in some religion), indeed life is a sort of accident. We’re here because we’re here because we’re here because we’re here.

So, absolutely, one possible reaction to finding you are a conscious being with some kind of independence of action is to say ‘this isn’t the reality I was expecting’ and end it right there. I wouldn’t recommend such a course of action, as it tends to limit your options quite severely.

Another possible reaction is to generally hurt and maim anyone within easy reach for entertainment. And, indeed, there’s plenty of examples of people who do just that.

Another possible reaction is to see if there is some other alternative. So, indeed, there is no reason why I should do anything other than feather my own nest at any expense to others. But I’d really rather not. And, once we think like this, in a sense the world has got smaller. There’s just you, me and all the other folk. And there’s no reward for what we do, ultimately, other than our own feeling of what makes for a good life.

So why live? Because the fact of being here is no trial. Not wanting to seem disingenuous, I do personally find a lack of clarity over what happens next. But I suspect it has to do with dealing with other people decently, as dealing with them in any other manner is ultimately self corrosive. But, indeed, there is no cosmic being (I feel) who will be bothered one way or the other whether I follow whatever I can dimly perceive to be a moral life, or whether I screw everyone over in every situation I possibly can. And no individual ethical statement that you might suggest has, imho, any objective basis whatsoever.

lostexpectation

the goal is not at the end