Match Thread: Celtic vs Man Utd 05/11/2008 (Pre/During/After Match Discussion)

allybhoy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Is Strachan bad in the transfer market iyo? Or is the club's relative disadvantage in league, finances, location to blame for being unable to compete for the necessary talent?

Yes I think he is. He seems to buy work horses (Hartley, Samaras...) rather than out and out quality. Like he buys players that he knows are model pro's rather than trying to take a risk on someone with a bit of Flair. THis combined with the fact that the board arent givving him much money and also its tough to attract real quality to play in the SPL, sadly.

eirebhoy

allybhoy wrote: »

Well its a good thing no1 cares what you think...that's a stupid comment. U seem to forget that Celtic beat you's 2 seasons ago and were unlucky to get a draw in Old Trafford. Im not saying were the best team ever but comments like that are disrespectful so please keep them to yourself.

I take compliment from the comparison with Middlesbrough tbh with the team that started tonight.

allybhoy - Samaras is a lot better than a work horse. Very much a flair striker. And Hartley is back up, like O'Shea he just always has a place.

bmcgov86

well in the end im not too dissapointed with a draw. strachan set out with a gameplan and in fairness it worked for 83mins. i thought it was ineviatable utd would get one at some stage. despite our great battling abilities i would like to have seen more technical ability, ie: naka or mcgeady. ive never been a fan of wilson but i thought that was the best hes ever played in the hoops. robson was like a trojan, seemed to be everywhere. centre halves seemed inpenitrable. despite his slip at the end i thought my mate darren did well, must have won 5 headers within 2 mins of his introduction. at the end of the day football comes down to money, money comes from TV and in scotland we just cant compete on that side of things. What other team in the world plays in a league as bad as ours and can hold united to a draw. im proud to be a Celtic fan tonight. as for ronaldo, he's obviously a great player, everyone knows that, but at the end of the day he is very unproffesional at times, diving, moaning etc. However i agree lots of players do these things. Dunphy is a bit extreme and utd fans often disregard what he is saying altogether. however i think he has a valid point. look at the greatest sportsmen, tiger woods for example. in a different league in my opinion, its just ronaldo's general demeaner that lets hime down. ive talked to many a united fan that agrees with me on that and i dont think anyone can disagree completely. anyway good game tonight, good luck to united. we might meet u in next years super cup when we win the uefa cup!:D

mike65

Poor finishing for such a starry attack. Tsk.

Mike

bmcgov86

Tauren wrote: »

Think people fail to factor in the TV money - if Celtic were a prem team, with 60k a week and the tv money, with their history, they would be able to attract, sign and afford to pay a higher quality of player. The current celtic side would be midtable over the course of a season, but if Celtic had been in the prem for the last two seasons, they would have a very different team.

this sums it up perfectly for me. Celtic have been punching above their weight for a long time, argueably doing this the best in the world. i dream of the day we play in an all british premiership one day and im in no doubt within a few years we would be competing right at the top. this is why clubs in the lower half of the premiership spectrum are totally against it. they would move down a place (or 2, with rangers!) and this ineviatably means less money, and unfortunately football is all about money these days.

Frankie Lee

allybhoy wrote: »

Yes I think he is. He seems to buy work horses (Hartley, Samaras...) rather than out and out quality. Like he buys players that he knows are model pro's rather than trying to take a risk on someone with a bit of Flair. THis combined with the fact that the board arent givving him much money and also its tough to attract real quality to play in the SPL, sadly.

He spent money buying Paddy McCourt, you can't get more flair player than that.

Mr.Nice Guy

allybhoy wrote: »

Well its a good thing no1 cares what you think...that's a stupid comment. U seem to forget that Celtic beat you's 2 seasons ago and were unlucky to get a draw in Old Trafford. Im not saying were the best team ever but comments like that are disrespectful so please keep them to yourself.

What the f*ck?

If you don't care what I think why are you replying to me genious? I wasn't being disrespectful. Is it wrong to suggest that Celtic would be about Middlebrough's level if in the Premiership? I don't think so. If you disagree how about explaining why instead of taking shots at me and going on about victories in the past.

Celtic were thumped at Old Trafford and were hanging on for dear life at the end of tonight's match. That is form befitting of a lower mid-table Premier League side. As I said if you disagree explain why.

Playing the man and not the ball isn't very bright. A bit like Celtic's style of play these days really.

A Dub in Glasgo

What a fecking atmosphere. I knew we couldn't hold on although I thought we coud have added a bit more width for the last 25mins to take the pressure off. We were always inviting MU back on to. The obvious danger is the counter attack from MU and I think Strachan feared that as well/ Have yet to see the McDonald goal on TV but it looked like a fantastic lob.

I thought Ronaldo was quite lucky to be still on the pitch for the equaliser.

Overall, quite happy that this was not a repeat of the capitulation at OT. Disappointing to see Aalborg get a point though.

A Dub in Glasgo

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

What the f*ck?

If you don't care what I think why are you replying to me genious? I wasn't being disrespectful. Is it wrong to suggest that Celtic would be about Middlebrough's level if in the Premiership? I don't think so. If you disagree how about explaining why instead of taking shots at me and going on about victories in the past.

Celtic were thumped at Old Trafford and were hanging on for dear life at the end of tonight's match. That is form befitting of a lower mid-table Premier League side. As I said if you disagree explain why.

Playing the man and not the ball isn't very bright. A bit like Celtic's style of play these days really.

To be honest, I have no idea why this 'comparison' thing gets trotted out. Celtic play in a ****e league with very little TV money. Of course, they would not be setting the EPL alight with the current team and level of income.

Dave!

Must have been intimidating playing in front of that crowd tonight. Vidic even looked intimidated in the lineup at the start! He had a great game though

Anyone know why Rafa was taken off? He pick up a knock? Thought he was quite good. He does need to work on his defensive game though. He commits too many silly fouls.

Ronaldo was decent enough. Nani had yet another shocker. Should we worry about this chap? Perhaps not yet.

Foster didn't have much to do. Don't think he could have done much more for the goal, he was barely off his line, anyone else would have shot for the near post (which BF had covered), so it was well done for the striker for getting that one in.

Fletch was consistent again today. Carrick also.

eirebhoy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Disappointing to see Aalborg get a point though.

If Celtic beat Aalborg and Man Utd beat Villarreal it's down to the last game. Celtic would need to beat Villarreal by 2 goals at Celtic park which is quite possible given the psychology that'd come into play.

A Dub in Glasgo

I know you are looking at the glass half full scenario but realistically the glass is half empty on that front.

allybhoy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Celtic were thumped at Old Trafford and were hanging on for dear life at the end of tonight's match. That is form befitting of a lower mid-table Premier League side. As I said if you disagree explain why.

Last time Liverpool played at OT they were thumped aswell? That mean theyre also like Middlesborough? And BTW two of utd's goals were offside against celtic..

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If you disagree how about explaining why instead of taking shots at me and going on about victories in the past.

The only comparison you can base Celtic on with any team in the premiership are on games gone by as obviously they dont play them week in week out. You were the one who drew up comparisons with EPL Teams. The last time they played utd in the CL they were unlucky to be beaten at OT and bet them at home, before that they knocked Liverpool and Blackburn out of the Uefa Cup.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A bit like Celtic's style of play these days really.

Not Biting

allybhoy

eirebhoy wrote: »

I take compliment from the comparison with Middlesbrough tbh with the team that started tonight.

allybhoy - Samaras is a lot better than a work horse. Very much a flair striker. And Hartley is back up, like O'Shea he just always has a place.

Well each to their own but im not Samaras's biggest fan, he's too inconsistent, too flakey, doesnt use his height efficiently enough for me and half the time he doesnt look interested. Was at the Rangers game last year and was watching him for most of the match looking for some sort of inspiration, there was none, he was poison

Boggles

Faboulas goal from McDonald, Would VDS have got to it?, maybe, he has 3 inches on Foster. Would put it down to a great strike more than a goal keeping error thou.

I thought United played some excellent attacking football tonight, not enough credit given to them by the RTE circus panel, It is so hard to break down a team that defends as deep and as well as Celtic did tonight, for a finish United were unlucky not to have won it with an incredible 26 attempts at goal.

Thought Nani did all rite, he put a couple of decent crosses and corners into the box, chased back well, by no means was he worse then Giggs. O'Shea's link up play with him was terrible and I think resulted in him being dragged off at half time.

For a finish I was disappointed United didn't get the win, happy enough with a point, still top of the group, Berb, Rooney and Evra should be fighting fit for the Arse Saturday afternoon.

Ronnie Whelan should just grow a pair of testicles and tell the 2 boys they are talking ****é, I thought at one stage he was going to but he pulled out of it.

Billo - "So everyone else in the world is Wrong and your Right Eamonn?"

raven136

pool and united fans agree on something,dunphy hasnt a clue.

all this talk of professional attitude of ronaldo etc.The guy is gifted and so what if he doesnt track back.The goals and attacking make up for that part of his game.

Footballers are sportspeople,not role models.Im not going to turn around to my younglad and tell him that Torres or Gerrard are meant to be his role models.No,they are players from a team he supports and are just professional athletes.

They are paid to perform for the team and usually they do,no fan really cares if they dive,or abuse the ref in the heat of the moment or foul badly every now and then.Maybe im wrong but thats what it seems to me,once ronaldo and gerrard do the business repectively i cant see many complaining.

Dunphy cant be taken seriously...he called Mascherano a donkey.What do you expect from a guy with opinons like that

Dave!

raven136 wrote: »

pool and united fans agree on something,dunphy hasnt a clue.

I don't agree with that :pac:

Nah, good post

anonymous_joe

Dunphy's a smart bloke, but he's trying too hard to be controversial. It makes him look stupid.

Mr.Nice Guy

allybhoy wrote: »

Last time Liverpool played at OT they were thumped aswell? That mean theyre also like Middlesborough? And BTW two of utd's goals were offside against celtic..

LOL. So are you comparing Celtic to Liverpool in terms of ability? Surely the recent records of both in Europe prove that to be ridiculous.

allybhoy wrote:

The only comparison you can base Celtic on with any team in the premiership are on games gone by as obviously they dont play them week in week out.

Not at all. My point is that Celtic are a poorer team now than they were a few years ago. Why then when assessing Celtic NOW should we include the games from years gone by which featured a different crop of players? Makes no sense.

allybhoy wrote:

You were the one who drew up comparisons with EPL Teams. The last time they played utd in the CL they were unlucky to be beaten at OT and bet them at home, before that they knocked Liverpool and Blackburn out of the Uefa Cup.

Yes I did bring up the comparison in reference to LuckyLloyd querying the level of Celtic's current team. I stand by my comparison. To me Celtic are about at the level of a Middlesbrough or a Wigan. A few years ago I would have viewed them as the equivalent to maybe a top 6 team. Not now. To me if they were in the Premiership they'd be lower mid-table. Bringing up how they did in cup games from years ago has no relevance in determing their present standard.

A more reasonable assessment would be to determine how Celtic have performed on the highest stage - Europe - and it seems that they are actually going backwards. They can't buy an away win and the current crop of players are nowhere near as good as the likes of Petrov, Larsson, Hartson et. al from a few seasons ago.

I'm not having a dig at Celtic by saying this. I know financially they can't provide what United and Liverpool can and that it's thus not a level playing field. But to suggest Celtic ARE on the same level as United and Liverpool is just fantasy stuff. They aren't in the same league pardon the pun. :pac:

eirebhoy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A more reasonable assessment would be to determine how Celtic have performed on the highest stage - Europe - and it seems that they are actually going backwards. They can't buy an away win and the current crop of players are nowhere near as good as the likes of Petrov, Larsson, Hartson et. al from a few seasons ago.

I'll give you Larsson from those 3 but I wouldn't trade Brown for Petrov and there wouldn't be much between Hartson and Vennegoor. Certainly Strachan would rather Jan I think (Hartson was only 31 when Strachan replaced him). But obviously the likes of Larsson, Sutton, Lambert, Mjallby+Balde, Agathe are much better than the current set.

allybhoy

allybhoy wrote: »

And BTW two of utd's goals were offside against celtic..

And Rooney had a perfectly good goal disallowed for offside when he was on

ROCKMAN

Though it was a good game, Think Celtic deserved something from the game , They defended magnificently and really put on a fantastic team effort ,
Their goal was a beautifully taken and not much Foster or 99% of keepers could have done about it . Par the goal Giggs did nothing on the night and was united poorest player. Rahael was great IMO or a young player to perform in such a intimidating atmosphere was great to see , Ronaldo did well ,got alot of attention , but as normal was our main danger going forward , Hell of strike which lead to our goal. JOS ,Vidic and Rio had solid games . Berbs lead the line well and was involved throughout, but that miss at the end :eek::eek::eek: , He owns us 2/3 goals just to get that miss out of your minds.

Over all a good game , enjoyable , Now people will argue with me when I say " FAIR RESULT " because of Utd's domination .but I think when a team shows that level of determination , team effort and defends as well as Celtic did ,they deserved something out of the game.

_blank_

I watched the game, and I think a lot of people have their United blinkers on when it comes to Raphael.

I've watched him a few times now (granted, not as much as the real United fans who watch MUTV all the time), and while his play going forward is grand, his defending is terrible. His positioning is all over the place, and he tries a few too many "fancy manouvres" more befitting of a winger than a full back.

Now, I don't disagree that he looks like a decent prospect, and I'm all for giving youth it's chance, but come on lads. Taken on appearances alone, he hasn't been great.

Spud83

I think it was a poor night for Utd. For all the domination and "efforts" on goal the barely worked Boruc at all.

Defensive was fine, if it a bit all over the place for the goal. Rafeal played well but obviously needs to work on his defensive side which is to be expected for an 18 year old Brazilian. Remember it was his stupid foul (diving in needlessly) which lead to Celtics goal. O'Shea was fine defensively but was terrible going forward especially on the left.

Foster while he had little still had a couple of worrying moments. Failing to deal with two crosses convincingly, and a dodgy kick or two. Its the crosses that would worry me most as that is what makes a great keeper, controlling your area, being a good shot stopper is only half way there.

Midfield of Fletcher and Carrick were ok, but went missing at times. Noticed a very large gap between defense and midfield at times meaning they were not providing the link up that was required.

Nani was disappointing but I don't think he deserved to be taken off so early, Giggs was shocking. Nothing worked for him apart from his header. Ronaldo I thought looked dangerous all game. Tevez i thought was poor, he looked like he was rushed all game, never found any space, never looked like he had time on the ball. And before people say thats because of the way Celtic played Ronaldo, Rooney, and Berb never looked as rushed as Tevez did during the game. It was down to poor first touches putting him in trouble.

Celtic did the job they wanted to do. Offered little going forward and I actually think the early goal hurt them as it gave them less reason to go forward and invited Utd onto them for the whole game which was always dangerous.

Anyway qualification virtually secured which is the only point of the Group games. Much more important game on Saturday.

premierstone

SantryRed wrote: »

Aren't you a United or Liverpool fan as well?:pac:

No, where did you ever get that idea from???

Boggles

Des wrote: »

I watched the game, and I think a lot of people have their United blinkers on when it comes to Raphael.

I've watched him a few times now (granted, not as much as the real United fans who watch MUTV all the time), and while his play going forward is grand, his defending is terrible. His positioning is all over the place, and he tries a few too many "fancy manouvres" more befitting of a winger than a full back.

Now, I don't disagree that he looks like a decent prospect, and I'm all for giving youth it's chance, but come on lads. Taken on appearances alone, he hasn't been great.

In fairness to the lad, I think this season is the first time he has played competitive football. Just turning 18 in the summer and shipped off to Engerland from some Brazilian town with his brother.

He has started 5 matches, been selected ahead of Brown and Neville, although his defensive positioning is suspect at times and he gets caught too far forward, the confidence he exudes is incredible, considering again he only joined the planet in the summer of 1990 when we were marching around with our blow up Shamrocks singing "We're all part of Jackies Army"!

The potential of this kid, who some say his best position is on the right wing is endless. To put it in context he has impressed me more in his first 5 matches then possibly the best full back in the world at the moment Evra did in his first 5 for United.

Ferguson hasn't trusted youth in recent seasons, but this guy who I think will be massive, is punching way above his years.

I don't think many of the United fans have been blinkered about him on here, he is by no ways the finished article, but I think most of us notice talent when we see it and to be honest I havn't been this excited about a young player in a long time.

bmcgov86

Des wrote: »

I watched the game, and I think a lot of people have their United blinkers on when it comes to Raphael.

I've watched him a few times now (granted, not as much as the real United fans who watch MUTV all the time), and while his play going forward is grand, his defending is terrible. His positioning is all over the place, and he tries a few too many "fancy manouvres" more befitting of a winger than a full back.

Now, I don't disagree that he looks like a decent prospect, and I'm all for giving youth it's chance, but come on lads. Taken on appearances alone, he hasn't been great.

totally agree, im not a united fan but ive seen most the games he's played, positioning is all over the place. i sometimes wonder about peoples opinion on this site, to say he played well last night is totally wrong, ferguson realised this and took him off before it got too bad.

_blank_

Boggles, I take your point. It's a viewpoint a lot of people will have on here aswell.

And I'm NOT doubting the lads potential either.

But, in the games I've watched of United this season, in which he's played, my opinion of his performances have been wildly divergant to people's opinions on here. So much so, that I've had to bring it up, in fact.

Someone commented that Raphael had a great game last night.

That was a outright lie.

Boggles

Des wrote: »

Boggles, I take your point. It's a viewpoint a lot of people will have on here aswell.

And I'm NOT doubting the lads potential either.

But, in the games I've watched of United this season, in which he's played, my opinion of his performances have been wildly divergant to people's opinions on here. So much so, that I've had to bring it up, in fact.

Someone commented that Raphael had a great game last night.

That was a outright lie.

Fair enough, he hasn't been great in any game but he has had moments of greatness. It is all about potential, big debate during the summer on here whether the teams at the top can afford to blood youth considering the margins for error have shrank so much, this is another reason I'm delighted he is getting a shot.

And to be fair to him, his first job is to defend, United have a better defenisive record with him in the team than the other 2 established right backs, all be it against lower opposition.

premierstone

Boggles wrote: »

Fair enough, he hasn't been great in any game but he has had moments of greatness. It is all about potential, big debate during the summer on here whether the teams at the top can afford to blood youth considering the margins for error have shrank so much, this is another reason I'm delighted he is getting a shot.

And to be fair to him, his first job is to defend, United have a better defenisive record with him in the team than the other 2 established right backs, all be it against lower opposition.

Kind of arguing against yourself here, its alraedy been conceeded that he's not a natural defender and its no coincidence that all of Celtics best attacks and chances came down he's side, personnally I thought he was shocking last night, us Celtic fans have been crying out for the last two seasons for Mark Wilson and Lee Naylor to be replaced and based on last night Wilson was streets ahead of Rafeal (granted there is a vast difference in experience and age)

Boggles

premierstone wrote: »

Kind of arguing against yourself here, its alraedy been conceeded that he's not a natural defender and its no coincidence that all of Celtics best attacks and chances came down he's side, personnally I thought he was shocking last night, us Celtic fans have been crying out for the last two seasons for Mark Wilson and Lee Naylor to be replaced and based on last night Wilson was streets ahead of Rafeal (granted there is a vast difference in experience and age)

Not arguing against myself at all, perish the thought.

I merely pointed out that as a defender his first job is to defend, Uniteds defensive record is better with him in the team over 5 games, than Brown or Neville, I then reasoned that he has played against perceived lesser opposition, ergo maybe giving an explanation for it.

Most of opposing teams best chances come down the left against United, thats because more often than not Ronaldo is not helping, thats why I think Brown had a mammoth season last year.

premierstone

Boggles wrote: »

Not arguing against myself at all, perish the thought.

I merely pointed out that as a defender his first job is to defend, Uniteds defensive record is better with him in the team over 5 games, than Brown or Neville, I then reasoned that he has played against perceived lesser opposition, ergo maybe giving an explanation for it.

Most of opposing teams best chances come down the left against United, thats because more often than not Ronaldo is not helping, thats why I think Brown had a mammoth season last year.

Fair enough and agree on Wes Brown btw, but I was just really shocked reading this thread because when I was watching the game last night I thought he was muck and that Celtic should just play every ball down that side and how it was a shame that McGeady wasnt there

shane86

Dave! wrote: »

Nani had yet another shocker.

Oh leave off. Was not his best and had a careless touch or two at the side line but a shocker is over stating it. Worst red player on the park last night was Tevez, uncharacteristically sloppy (he didnt have Anderson to out- do his poorness ) Very disappointed for Celtic, their backs defended well, but Boruc's form is certainly questionable right now. Also thought taking off Sheridan was nuts, feel he had a decent strike or two in him.


As for Rafael he played a blinder before being taken off injured in Aalborg. Could be big in 4 or 5 years.

Des wrote: »

I hope United kick forty shades of green out of Celtic tonight.

I hope so (they boo The Fields).

I hope Shels go into adminstration. The hatred some have here for a club and fans who are so proud of their Irish heritage is embarassing.

eirebhoy

shane86 wrote: »

Also thought taking off Sheridan was nuts, feel he had a decent strike or two in him.

Sheridan had nothing left in him. Same goes for McDonald and Maloney. Strachan said his players were so tired he would have used all 11 subs if possible. Scott Brown probably covered 15-16k.