injury from front shoe when jumping

Cloudy22

My horse tucks in his front legs really high when he jumps, and as a result he sometimes bangs himself with his shoe at the very top of his front leg (under his shoulder, I think..? it's like the underarm on a person). When this happens you can see the marks from the shoe on his skin, which gets very raw, sore and swollen. He already wears over-reach boots, a stud-guard, etc, but the studguard doesn't protect him in that spot. My instructor tells me that he's never come across this and I can't think of anyway of protecting him. I'm also terrified of using studs on him, as the injury would be much worse. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks!

finbarrk

Its hard to think of any solution to that when the studguard isn't protecting that area. I haven't seen that before.

Cloudy22

I know, I've been trying to think of how I could wrap something around the top of his legs, but I'd say it would fall down the minute he starts moving! I'm terrified of jumping him again now as it happened the last two times I jumped.

finbarrk

It could be worth a try to remove all the boots from him. Sometimes horses lift their legs higher with boots on. A bit of a longshot but worth a try.

Cloudy22

Thanks, I might try that, although I'd be reluctant to always jump him without boots, particularly x-country or if he's wearing studs. I thought of removing his shoes altogether, but I'd say he'd still hurt himself if it happened. It's a pity cos he's a great little jumper and loves it!

ell

Do you know what might have caused him to do this, or when he started to do this, or how long he's done this for?

Does he rush over fences / get a little strong / is there anything he does which might suggest worry when jumping?

Ideally you'd like to figure out whats causing this - maybe it could be conformation either? (clutching at straws).

Maybe if he's just a very flexible animal and the extra weight of the shoe at the end of the limb causes it to overbend with the momentum of the hoof/shoe combination. Have you jumped him without shoes? Do you have the same issue?

Or use lighter shoes / or fetlock rings?

I am just guessing though. You'd really want to figure out whats caused him to do this to figure out the best way to resolve it. Good luck

Cloudy22

hi Ell, thanks for the reply. I can't be sure what's causing it, but my guess is that he is just extremely careful (he hates knocking fences and rarely does) and tucks his legs in so much that he bangs himself. Sometimes it's under his belly (which is why I usually put a studguard on him), but other times it's at the top of his front legs. He doesn't particularly rush or get worried, he loves jumping and is quite keen but never out of control.
All I can say is that it tends to happen over bigger fences (from 95cm/1m), although he's always way over fences regardless of the height. My guess is that the bigger the fence the more careful he gets and the more he tucks his legs in. I'm attaching a photo of him jumping a few months ago where you can see how his hooves get quite close to the back of his front legs, although I have no photo of him actually hitting himself.
I never tried to jump without shoes, but am thinking of having a word with my farrier and maybe trying that, although that still wouldn't completely solve the problem.
I never used fetlock rings before, how do they work? are they the round rubber things? That might work as it might prevent the shoe/hoof from touching his leg.
Thanks for all the advice!!

ell

Wow, he is a GORGEOUS horse!!!! I hope you get this sorted

EMZ0907

what about those rubber shoes?might be a bit softer than a bare hoof if it hits off?or maybe if you could figure out some form of protector.....like what you use for anti-rubbing with rugs(anti rub vest).....if you could find something like that but for under his belly?duno how restrictive that would be though?

stunning horse!!!hope you can find some solution, espcially if he loves it so much!

keep us updated on anything you find:)

byhookorbycrook

was that pic taken at the AIRC festival?

Cloudy22

thanks for all the replies & advice! he is small but cute
yes, the photo was taken at the AIRC festival, well spotted!
EMZ0907, are you thinking of those rubber shoes that go all around the hoof (like a person's shoe)? someone else suggested them and I thought I might have a go, although that wouldn't solve the problem if he has to wear studs.
a friend of mine suggested wrapping a bandage around the top of his leg with a bit of foam underneath, the type of bandage athletes use when they have a knee injury, etc. I thought that might work if I can manage to make it stay in place...

togster

I see your point. Nice horse. He seems to jump without folding his forearms under his stomach. He is probably getting his injury because he is very careful and jumps in this way. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something on the market for this probelem. He's not the only horse i've seen jump like this. What sort of shape are the wounds? Are they caused by the ends of the shoes? Strange problem and i hope you get it sorted.

EMZ0907

oh no no not those rubber shoes!sorry should have been more specific my bad!:o they are the same as a horse shoe iron only made out of rubber.they are expesive and im not sure if all farriers do them.iv only ever seen them once at a expiditon......those rubber shoes, runners i call them, are useless!they dont stay on properly and turn everyway but the way they are ment ta be!never used them my self but my friend had them on her horse and she had nothing but trouble with them!like togster said there has to be something on the market for it, as i have seen horses jump like this. ya poor thing i hope you do find something for it!it does seem stressful!:o

togster

OP if you could try and get onto some website that sells stuff for those horses that do barrel races in the USA, they are always very well booted. And it hink i saw something for protection there a long time ago.

Cloudy22

togster wrote: »

I see your point. Nice horse. He seems to jump without folding his forearms under his stomach. He is probably getting his injury because he is very careful and jumps in this way. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something on the market for this probelem. He's not the only horse i've seen jump like this. What sort of shape are the wounds? Are they caused by the ends of the shoes? Strange problem and i hope you get it sorted.

Thanks! he's a funny horse, sometimes he tucks his legs in under his belly (hence the studguard), but other times he has them more to the front, and that's when he hits himself in that spot. The good thing is he always gets his legs out of the way!
As for the wounds, the first time it happened I could distinctly see the marks of the ends of the shoes on his skin, but the last time it was even bigger, like a bit red raw swollen patch of about 7cm diametre, as if he'd hit himself several times, or else once but with the whole flat of his hoof/shoe.
I bought this kind of foam band/sling with a velcro on it, it's meant for people but thought I might be able to wrap it around the top of his leg, so I'll see if that works.

EMZ0907 wrote: »

oh no no not those rubber shoes!sorry should have been more specific my bad!:o they are the same as a horse shoe iron only made out of rubber.they are expesive and im not sure if all farriers do them.iv only ever seen them once at a expiditon......those rubber shoes, runners i call them, are useless!they dont stay on properly and turn everyway but the way they are ment ta be!never used them my self but my friend had them on her horse and she had nothing but trouble with them!like togster said there has to be something on the market for it, as i have seen horses jump like this. ya poor thing i hope you do find something for it!it does seem stressful!:o

ah ok, thanks, I'll forget about those rubber shoes then (the ones you call "runners"). I'll have a look on the internet for those barrel races horses (not sure what barrel races are, but I'm sure I'll find out!). I spent hours on the internet the other day trying to find information on this type of injury but couldn't find anything. The only thing I found that was vaguely similar was about the stallion Ard Douglas who apparently hits himself between his front legs at the bottom of his chest when he jumps, but he jumps 1m50 and over, so the comparison with my horse stops there!
They seem to wrap some fluffy thing around the straps of his breastplate or something like that to protect him, but that wouldn't work for mine as he hits himself in a different spot.
Thanks to everyone for all the advice

ell

not sure if these'd be any good......

http://www.eponashoe.com/

I presume you have tried overreach boots?

Cloudy22

Deleted User wrote: »

I presume you have tried overreach boots?

yes, I always use them, but they must come up a bit when he's over the jump and the end of the shoe is not covered. What I thought I might try is to put one of those rubber fetlock rings on him and the overreach boot right underneath it so that the fetlock ring might stop the boot from slipping up when he jumps... But I'm not too sure that it would work as well as it sounds!

ell wrote: »

not sure if these'd be any good......

http://www.eponashoe.com/

hi Ell, thanks for the link, I had a look at their website. There doesn't seem to be any farriers that work with them in Ireland though (not according to the website anyway)... And I'd still be worried about putting studs in...
My instructor mentioned it to the farrier and he said he'd seen some showjumpers at the RDS wearing "things" around their pasterns which he thought looked like they might protect the horses from studding themseves (by preventing the foot from folding back as much). I'm not exactly sure what they are, but if anyone has seen them, I'd be interested in finding out more!

Cloudy22

I discovered those things called "pastern boots" on the Internet, I'd never heard of them before . There seems to be different types:
http://carrollcountytack.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=610
http://www.frogpool.com/prodcat-409.html (scroll down to the bottom of page and you'll see them, they're called "pastern wraps")

Does anyone know anything about them or has ever used them? I wonder if they would help in my horse's case..?

EMZ0907

i think i have seen them before?are they the wraps that go around the leg above the hoof?i dont think they would prevent the injury your horse sustains im afraid!i have only seen them once before and i think they are just for extra support around that area incase of a bang etc

sorry if im completely off the mark!:p

Cloudy22

I think you're right, they seem to be meant to protect the pastern area for horses that overreach badly, but I was kind of hoping that it might prevent him from folding back his hoof so much... You're probably right though, I'd say it wouldn't work.
Maybe we're just doomed to only being able to do dressage from now on..!

chevalfou

Go barefoot

MDFM

Would you try egg-bar shoes? They won't necessarily prevent him banging himself, but at least with the round edge/full circle on them he won't be 'stabbing' himself like he does with normal shoes. Suggest it to your farrier maybe, there are many type of egg bars shoes, he may come up with something that might help.

Cloudy22

chevalfou wrote: »

Go barefoot

I thought of it, actually, but he would still hurt himself if he banged his elbow with his hoof (not as much, but still) & then my instructor seems to think it might not be a great idea and that he might hurt his feet in the long run with all the jumping...

MDFM wrote: »

Would you try egg-bar shoes? They won't necessarily prevent him banging himself, but at least with the round edge/full circle on them he won't be 'stabbing' himself like he does with normal shoes. Suggest it to your farrier maybe, there are many type of egg bars shoes, he may come up with something that might help.

thanks for the suggestion, he's due new shoes in a couple of weeks so I'll talk to my farrier then and see what he thinks.
In the meantime a friend of mine talked to someone from Goodwin's in Mulhuddart and apparently they've come across this three times before! The said they could make something in soft leather to protect him there, so that might solve my/his problem.

EMZ0907

Cloudy22 wrote: »

I think you're right, they seem to be meant to protect the pastern area for horses that overreach badly, but I was kind of hoping that it might prevent him from folding back his hoof so much... You're probably right though, I'd say it wouldn't work.
Maybe we're just doomed to only being able to do dressage from now on..!

that is an idea actually!smart thinking!i didnt even think of that sorry, but you would wana try it out at home as he may not like jumping like that ya know?might feel to restricted and be like oh lord i cant jump like this!:P but defo try everything you can think of!in this situation i dont think there is much to lose!had 2geldings go barefoot and found the ended up lame alot.....they did a fair bit of work so maybe that was something to do with it but put them back to shoes and not a bother since.so decided not to go bare foot with my horse.its just a personal occurance im sure loads of people find it fine just from my experience i wouldnt recomend it!but like i said im sure everything is worth a shot!!!:)