Dramatic finish to Brazillian GP!

DBraithwaite

what a dramatic finish to Brazillian GP, you have to feel sorry for Massa. They both would have been worthy winners:D

acquiescefc

Sir Timo Glock

G-Money

I think I need a pacemaker. I've had my heart in my mouth for the last two hours. Hamilton had it won, then the rain came and he had lost it, I couldn't believe it, then at the last corner he passes Glock and get's the point he needs for the title. Unbelievable.

Didn't really like the way the crowd were booing him though.

I feel bad for Massa, he seems like a really nice genuine guy and he put Raikonnen in the shade this year, but I wanted Hamilton to win and I'm glad he did.

T-Maxx

Pathetic.

Just shows you what money (=power) can do...:mad:

Dilbert75

Victory snatched from the jaws of defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. Unbelieveable! Delighted Hamilton won though I did feel sorry for Massa, he'd done everything right all weekend and was 2 corners from winning. Even his family / pit crew thought he had it won, it was heartbreaking to see them being told otherwise.

Alun

T-Maxx wrote: »

Pathetic.

Just shows you what money (=power) can do...:mad:

... or even Glock making the wrong tyre choice and staying out on dry tyres? How's that tinfoil hat working out, by the way?

KamiKazi

What a truly epic race!

KamiKazi

Oh and you guys might appreciate this

jhegarty

T-Maxx wrote: »

Pathetic.

Just shows you what money (=power) can do...:mad:

i can make more rain on the last lap ????


didn't know they had that kind of money....

MrLNB

Well done lewis,
But im fed up with F1 and the people behind it. On ITV the reporter asked Bernie how is it that it keeps going down to the last race, he replied "its getting harder".

eeeyeaaaaa, like that time they gave hamilton the penalty instead of beaurdox. sorry for spelling, im fuming.

some of the decisions that have been made this season in my opinion has wrecked the whole thing. Im thinking of not getting with it next yr, never mind the fact that the BBC have it, if its any thing like the MOD it will be a disaster, here in Ireland, at least they analyze the games. what will the F1 be like?

But my point here, yes over the year Hamilton done it, and deserved it.

BUT, Glock lost way too much time for me. . . remember, it was even in the last 2 sectors, I checked up the timing, and its very sus. . .

who cares now i guess. . . but it wrong. . .

KamiKazi

jhegarty wrote: »

i can make more rain on the last lap ????


didn't know they had that kind of money....

its easy meight, they just hired the guys from the truman show

schalken999

had my heart in my mouth wen vettel overtook lewis...n then sir timo glock came to the rescue..i think lady luck did smile on lewis tis time around...but he truly deserves it than anybody else....tat video of massa pit reaction after being told tat they ve lost it....must be heartbreakin for them....

i think the massa pit crew n his family were more animated than lewiss counterparts....
hamilton deserves to be the youngest ever world champ...tis ones for his father antony, his physically challenged brother n all his other family members..

Its the drivers championship tat counts....
FERRARI dont deserve it.

Huggles

T-Maxx wrote: »

Pathetic.

Just shows you what money (=power) can do...:mad:

Ridiculous tbh.

schalken999

KamiKazi wrote: »

Oh and you guys might appreciate this

how did u manage to post it so soon....
was jumpin out wid joy wen i saw tis

amacachi

MrLNB wrote: »

eeeyeaaaaa, like that time they gave hamilton the penalty instead of beaurdox. sorry for spelling, im fuming.

BUT, Glock lost way too much time for me. . . remember, it was even in the last 2 sectors, I checked up the timing, and its very sus. . .

Don't see why a wine producing region in France deserved a penalty.


**** **** ****! Did you really check the timing!? His time on the last lap was within 2 seconds of all the rest of the dry-tyre runners!

Mr. Presentable

schalken999 wrote: »

Its the drivers championship tat counts....
.

Really!!!

The true measure is the Constructors table. No matter how talented a driver is, if the machine is not up to it he's got nothing.

MrLNB

amacachi wrote: »

Don't see why a wine producing region in France deserved a penalty.


**** **** ****! Did you really check the timing!? His time on the last lap was within 2 seconds of all the rest of the dry-tyre runners!

yes, first sector was fine, as the ITV James allen said,

Sector 2 & 3 was a dramatic shift. . . .

schalken999

nipplenuts wrote: »

Really!!!

The true measure is the Constructors table. No matter how talented a driver is, if the machine is not up to it he's got nothing.

true...but its d drivers championship tat hogs d media spotlight...

rua1972

schalken999 wrote: »

true...but its d drivers championship tat hogs d media spotlight...

And you get to drive around with #1 on yer car whole year, sounds better then #22

schalken999

rua1972 wrote: »

And you get to drive around with #1 on yer car whole year, sounds better then #22

so true

amacachi

MrLNB wrote: »

yes, first sector was fine, as the ITV James allen said,

Sector 2 & 3 was a dramatic shift. . . .

Yes, but that was because it started teeming down at that stage. It was almost exactly the same time as the other dry tyre users. And he lost another 5 seconds after Hamilton got past. So even if he'd somehow been 4 seconds faster than any other dry tyre runner he still couldn't have held Hamilton off.

G-Money

Really like this video that ITV produced I have to say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRjfxnqtHYY&feature=related

MrLNB

amacachi wrote: »

Yes, but that was because it started teeming down at that stage. It was almost exactly the same time as the other dry tyre users. And he lost another 5 seconds after Hamilton got past. So even if he'd somehow been 4 seconds faster than any other dry tyre runner he still couldn't have held Hamilton off.

yes i agree, it looked just like you explained it,

but was it for real?

again, before ITV went off the air, they were also questioning it.

Yes, 10 mins after the race it was lashing rain, but not as bad on the last lap.
looking at the camera shots it was not apparent at any stage of the last lap was it lashing.

ITV thinks that Glock had a problem.

Ghost Train

great last few laps

well done to mclaren, ferrari and massa had a good year and could have stolen it, but thought hamilton deversed the championship after having two strong years in F1

Don't think Glock gave up the place, was just struggling on the wrong tyres, but will be interesting to see some more video or data for the last lap

amacachi

MrLNB wrote: »

yes i agree, it looked just like you explained it,

but was it for real?

again, before ITV went off the air, they were also questioning it.

Yes, 10 mins after the race it was lashing rain, but not as bad on the last lap.
looking at the camera shots it was not apparent at any stage of the last lap was it lashing.

ITV thinks that Glock had a problem.

I was watching the timing screen the whole time, his pace was exactly the same as the other dry tyre runners, so I can't say he did anythin wrong. For God's sake I was sick, I was so high on adrenaline thinkin that Massa was about to win I punched a wall when Hamilton passed Glock and only felt the pain about 45 minutes later:P Glock was within 2 seconds of the fastest dry tyre user. TBH it looks like even when Hamilton does well ITV are looking for a conspiracy somewhere.

amacachi

eolhc wrote: »

great last few laps

well done to mclaren, ferrari and massa had a good year and could have stolen it, but thought hamilton deversed the championship after having two strong years in F1

Don't think Glock gave up the place, was just struggling on the wrong tyres, but will be interesting to see some more video or data for the last lap

His time was almost identical to the other dry tyre runners. Really wish I'd taken a screenshot before I closed the window.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

His time was almost identical to the other dry tyre runners. Really wish I'd taken a screenshot before I closed the window.

Who were the other dry runners Force India? He lost 15 second lead in 2 sectors :eek:

Duzzie

There were 2 dry tyre runners for the last lap. Both Glock and Trulli did a 1:44 lap. Everyone else had switched to wets. The rain fell towards the end of the lap hence they lost all the time in the last sector.

Catcher86

ITV joked about Bernie not being able to script the ending any better if he had tried.

Bernie has been so worried about viewing numbers recently particularly after the Schumacher show. With the way the last two seasons have ended in such dramatic fashion its hard not to believe that something fishy is not going on.

Though personally I think it is legit, this year more than last year.

Ferrari can be happy with winning the constructors and a McClari winning the drivers championship.:D

zeris

Spectacular stuff. Hollywood scripting (without the happy ending ). Remember this next time someone mouths off about F1 being boring!

Dave!

The last 5 laps are on UTV at the mo if anyone wants to relive it

redspider

> There were 2 dry tyre runners for the last lap. Both Glock and Trulli did a 1:44 lap. Everyone else had switched to wets. The rain fell towards the end of the lap hence they lost all the time in the last sector.

Does anyone have all the pertinent sector times of the main runners at the end (last 3 laps) including Glock, plus another dry-tyre runner?

When I saw it happen at the time I thought that Glock was clearly driving slower on the final bends on his final lap and I assumed there must have been something amiss with his car, as did some of the TV crews. But in Glock's post-race interview he didnt mention anything about a problem with the car and just highlighted the wet weather conditions as being the factor. I'm not saying necessarily that there is a "conspiracy theory" but if the exact sector and lap times are posted up here we can draw more informed conclusions.

Thanks,

Redspider

amacachi

Look around at my posting history, I've been cheering for Massa since Raikkonen has been out of contention, and there's nothing amiss with Glock's driving. His lap matched Trulli's last lap, pretty much sector-for-sector. If Glock had done somethin wrong I'd be saying it.

Biro

KamiKazi wrote: »

Oh and you guys might appreciate this

It wasn't funny the first time you posted it either. The only person owned today was Hamilton by Vettel. He had a crap race.

FrostyJack

His lap matched Trulli's last lap

The only problem with that is he's his team mate (Toyota) so if one of them were cheating it was most likely both were in on it. Were they the only 2 slick drivers at the end? I haven't seen the data. BTW I don't think they were helping Hamilton, they were too far back to be involved if they came in for wets. So if they were to help Lewis then that would have been the safer/less obvious option.

amacachi

FrostyJack wrote: »

The only problem with that is he's his team mate (Toyota) so if one of them were cheating it was most likely both were in on it. Were they the only 2 slick drivers at the end? I haven't seen the data. BTW I don't think they were helping Hamilton, they were too far back to be involved if they came in for wets. So if they were to help Lewis then that would have been the safer/less obvious option.

Dunno if there were other drivers still on wets on the very last lap, but the last time I looked at the timing screen they both had 1.44 laps and a few others were 1.42-1.46 probably a lap down.

I hope you're takin the piss btw.

zeris

redspider wrote: »

>
Does anyone have all the pertinent sector times of the main runners at the end (last 3 laps) including Glock, plus another dry-tyre runner?

Don't have sector times:

Glock:
67 1'18.897
68 1'18.816
69 1'18.688
70 1'28.041
71 1'44.731

The only other dry tire runner was his teammate Trulli:
67 1'20.528
68 1'20.188
69 1'22.428
70 1'33.539
71 1'44.800

FrostyJack

I hope you're takin the piss btw.

Huh? I'm agreeing with you but I was just pointing out that as they were part of the same team you couldn't really say there was no collusion based on that fact their times were the same,i.e. if Fisi and Glocks times were the same it would have more weight. Again I reiterate there was nothing dodgy going on imho. As I stated above there were easier ways to let Hamilton overtake if they wanted to do it.

Biro

zeris wrote: »

Don't have sector times:

Glock:
67 1'18.897
68 1'18.816
69 1'18.688
70 1'28.041
71 1'44.731

The only other dry tire runner was his teammate Trulli:
67 1'20.528
68 1'20.188
69 1'22.428
70 1'33.539
71 1'44.800

He was 2 seconds faster for laps 67 and 68, 4 seconds faster on 69, 5.5 secs faster on 70 and only 0.27 secs faster on the very last lap. He must have ballsed up somewhere! 1'40.8 would have a different result today!
Definately not deliberate though, not a chance. Still - he just ensured a blanked ban from Ferrari employment!

amacachi

FrostyJack wrote: »

Huh? I'm agreeing with you but I was just pointing out that as they were part of the same team you couldn't really say there was no collusion based on that fact their times were the same,i.e. if Fisi and Glocks times were the same it would have more weight. Again I reiterate there was nothing dodgy going on imho. As I stated above there were easier ways to let Hamilton overtake if they wanted to do it.

Would've done well to match Trulli's lap perfectly and still lose 5 further seconds to Hamilton in the last sector.



Is someone going to suggest that there were Radio communications going on that the FIA weren't able to listen to? Only way a conspiracy could've worked.

redspider

zeris wrote: »

Glock:
67 1'18.897
68 1'18.816
69 1'18.688
70 1'28.041
71 1'44.731

The only other dry tire runner was his teammate Trulli:
67 1'20.528
68 1'20.188
69 1'22.428
70 1'33.539
71 1'44.800

Thanks zeris.

These lap times do make interesting reading. I've also re-watched the last lap on www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlS7mp2TJPw&NR=1. The sector times may be more revealing.

I think what we can conclude from the lap times of Glock and Trulli is that Glock clearly slowed on the last lap, and by a significant margin. I would not be surprised if his throttle telemetry data showed him easing off.

Whats also clear is that Vettel wasnt even trying hard to get past Hamilton until Kubica showed him how easy it was. It also seems that only after Vettel went past Hamilton did Glock go 'easy on the gas'.

My conclusion at the moment going on the most likely truth and probability is that Glock did indeed slow down on purpose to let Hamilton past. Perhaps there is a friendship there as to a reason why, as I dont think thee is any conspiracy aspect to it or money oing around. I would have no doubt that Glock got some beer and champagne bought for him last night though!

In terms of whether it is illegal in the sport or not, I think thats a moot point where race after race drivers are letting each other through and in some cases not, whether being lapped or what have you. Its 'endemic' to a certain extent and part of the game. There isn't supposed to be such a thing as "team orders" and overtakings between team members are supposed to be competitive. But its obvious to a blind man that that is not the reality. The pnly long-term solution is to have single-car teams, perhaps with backup drivers and cars in case of crashes,injuries, etc. Imagine in other sports if there were two in the same division, Liverpool A, Liverpool B, Man Utd A, Man Utd B. It leads to a problem by design.

In terms of overall racing capability, the cars are 99.5% of the speed and the driver is 0.5%, or even less. Hamilton is certainly a talented driver, as is Massa, most of them are. But its like horse racing. The jockey is only as good as his horse, and F1 drivers are essentially jockeys.

The sector times would still make interesting reading if anyone does get them ......

Redspider

Inquitus

Biro wrote: »

He was 2 seconds faster for laps 67 and 68, 4 seconds faster on 69, 5.5 secs faster on 70 and only 0.27 secs faster on the very last lap. He must have ballsed up somewhere! 1'40.8 would have a different result today!
Definately not deliberate though, not a chance. Still - he just ensured a blanked ban from Ferrari employment!

1.40.8 would have had no impact, Glock finished 5.4secs behind hamilton, he would have had to have done a 1.39.3

ednwireland

what interesting is that they both lost 10 seconds from 69 to 70 and similiarly to 71 so they were both going backwards for the last three laps cos of the rain i guess i cant imagine that mclaren knew glock would be in 5th on the last lap and needed him out of the way i doubt there was time to radio him and tell him to back off.
just the luck of the draw thats where the rain fell before the race as well and it was treachorous on wets cant imagine trying it on slicks im amazed he kept it on the road

elmolesto

It was an epic race. Massa did exactly what he needed to do, so did Hamilton. I feel sorry for Massa. But fair play to Hamilton if thought I don't like him:pac:

amacachi

redspider wrote: »

My conclusion at the moment going on the most likely truth and probability is that Glock did indeed slow down on purpose to let Hamilton past. Perhaps there is a friendship there as to a reason why, as I dont think thee is any conspiracy aspect to it or money oing around. I would have no doubt that Glock got some beer and champagne bought for him last night though!

So in answer to my previous post, did Toyota have a secret radio between themselves and Glock to tell him how much to slow down by? And did they tell Trulli "Oh yeah, Glock is slowing down to let his mate get past, will you try and match his sector times?" and then tell him all of Glock's sector times?

You ****ing spastic, read over the ****ing thread.

Probably gonna get banned for that but I'm past caring, this forum is full of idiots who can't read and who are worse than ITV for lookin for ****ing conspiracies that aren't there.

Biro

Inquitus wrote: »

1.40.8 would have had no impact, Glock finished 5.4secs behind hamilton, he would have had to have done a 1.39.3

My thinking is that on the corners he couldn't swerve to defend his position cause he'd have lost it, however on a 1'40 lap he'd have been on the long left hander leading onto the straight by the time the boys caught up, then he could have made a move to defend his position once, maybe making the outcome different! Still, what's done is done.
Hill reckons this will now open the flood gates for Hamilton. I certainly hope this isn't the case.

Duzzie

I fully understand that Hamilton is disliked by some people and that they would rather have seen Massa, Kimi, Alonso or anyone else win but him. However, give the guy a break, he ended the season on the most points and so is WDC 2008. All this talk of a conspiracy is nonsence.

If you look back at the season, the majority of contentious decisions have gone against Hamilton and Massa and Farrari have benifitted, such as Hamiltons penalty for cutting the chicane at Spa, 2 dangerous pit incidents for Massa, Massa/Bourdais incident, Hamilton's start in Singapore. Whether they were right or wrong, all of the dicisions taken on these events benifitted Massa and/or Farrari.

I do not subscribe to the theories of bias or fixing. There have been some very poor decisions by the stewards, particularly the bourdais incident, but i dont believe that there was any conspiracy or bias in those decisions. Hamiltons overtaking of Glock was down to Glock and Trulli being on the wrong tyres for the conditions, nothing more, nothing less. Glock had no reason to let Hamilton through. Glock accused Hamilton of running him off the track earlier in the season so why should he gift him the championship?? If Toyota wanted Glock to let hamilton through, why did they not just pit him when everyone else did. Why take the risk of staying out on drys, which if it had worked would have resulted in Hamilton not winning the title??

I'm not asking people to like Hamilton but he does deserve repect and credit for winning the WDC. I felt very sorry for Massa yesterday as he did all he could and the title was taken from him on the last corner. It was very tough on him. But he was a very good loser and was very magnanimous and dignified in defeat. If he's big enough to accept that Hamilton won, so should everyone else. Massa deserves a lot of respect for the improvement in his driving and in the way he handled the situation yesterday. My estimations of him have greatly increased.

Frank Bullitt

As people have said,whats done is done,but i don't agree with what hill said about this being the flood gates being opened,F1 is about to get a whole lot more competative.

Next year i see Ferrari,McLaren,BMW,Renault and Red Bull up there, I say RB because they have Newy on board and if anyone can take advantage of new regulations it him,that and Vettel will be there next year(lets not forget he over took Hamilton today).

It should be insanely close next year and I can see(HOPE TO GOD)that Kimi and Fernando are back up there winning races just like 2005.

C'mon 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Manic Moran

So out of interest, have there been any suggestions as to why Kimi didn't run block during the last part of the race? Drop back so that he would be in front of Lewis, then slow him down to allow people behind Lewis to catch up with him and hopefully overtake?

NTM

FrostyJack

any suggestions as to why Kimi didn't run block during the last part of the race?

The field was too spread out for this to work at the end, he was kind of doing it at the start. I would have kept at it hoping Lewis would make a rash manuover and run into him accidently on purpose. Though it would have been a pr disaster. Think of what the tin foil brigade would have said then "kill him", "terrorist" etc. Works well on Playstation though

Manic Moran

The problem with doing it at the beginning is that you could fall foul of counter-strategy by the pursuer pulling into the pits or some such. It would be most effective after the last round of pit stops, where there would be nothing they could do in response.

NTM