Age of 64-bit has arrived, Age of 32-bit is vanishing!

rasmasyean

Soon, no more 32-bit computers will ship... *plays the world’s smallest violin*

Out of the 11 HP laptops listed as "new arrivals" at Best Buy, 9 come with 4GB of memory and 64-bit Vista. Ironically, the other two new-arrival HP systems come with "Windows Vista Business downgraded to XP Pro."

In other words, you get either XP or 64-bit Vista: 32-bit Vista is not offered standard at all in this list of new arrivals.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10076795-64.html?tag=mncol


In NewEgg’s Top Desktop Sellers List as-of the time of this writing, it also resembles the above pattern. Interestingly, there are 2 "Windows Vista Business downgraded to XP Pro" too!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2032280010%204802&name=Top%20Sellers

All the XP computers are under $500.


Well, this is USA trends. Not sure how this affects Ireland, especially now that Euro is getting weaker. I know some EU governments have experimented with Linux sparsely because it was percieved "cheaper", not sure how that went though. I know most Linux effort in like Wall Mart in the USA colapsed though.

An Fear Aniar

rasmasyean wrote: »

Well, this is USA trends. Not sure how this affects Ireland, especially now that Euro is getting weaker. I know some EU governments have experimented with Linux sparsely because it was percieved "cheaper", not sure how that went though. I know most Linux effort in like Wall Mart in the USA colapsed though.

Michael Dell is apparently a big Ubuntu fan and Dell are shipping hardware with Ubuntu Linux pre-installed:

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/emea/segments/gen/client/en/ubuntu_landing?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs

Also also the Dell Inspiron Mini comes with Ubuntu or XP:

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/laptop-inspiron-9?cs=19&s=dhs&ref=homepg

so this may help to push Linux adoption among hardware vendors.

People should have a choice, not everybody is going to like Vista - I certainly didn't.

.

EvilMonkey

rasmasyean wrote: »

Age of 64-bit has arrived, Age of 32-bit is vanishing!

In a world where 8 and 16 bit processors are still used allot it will be a long time before we see the end of 32 bit

rasmasyean

EvilMonkey wrote: »

In a world where 8 and 16 bit processors are still used allot it will be a long time before we see the end of 32 bit

Well, I took the "Computers and Technology" as a group for desktops type equivalents. The 8 and 16 are mostly in the embeded market now. An 32 is actually making it's way there with netbooks and such. Which many are shipped with Windows XP as well as Linux...such as those in the Dell site listed above.

samhail

thats great i say to myself since i just spent an arm and a leg on a pc... but i dont actually know if im getting a 32bit or 64bit
Dells "XPS 420 E8500 Core 2 Duo Processor (3.16GHz, 6MB, 1333MHz)"

Anyone ?

rasmasyean

samhail wrote: »

thats great i say to myself since i just spent an arm and a leg on a pc... but i dont actually know if im getting a 32bit or 64bit
Dells "XPS 420 E8500 Core 2 Duo Processor (3.16GHz, 6MB, 1333MHz)"

Anyone ?

There are not going to give you a 6GB computer in 32-bit. It can't handle it.

32-bit means it can only “see” 2^32 (2 to the 32nd power) = 4GB memory spaces.
The computer has to be able to see the RAM + VRAM + other devices on Motherboard, etc.
e.g. If you have 1GB VRAM and “other devices” takes up 0.3GB, you will only be able to use a max of 2.7GB (4 - 1 - 0.3 = 2.7) .
In this case, if you install 3GB, you waste 0.3GB…if you install 4GB you waste 1.3GB!

AlmightyCushion

rasmasyean wrote: »

There are not going to give you a 6GB computer in 32-bit. It can't handle it.

32-bit means it can only “see” 2^32 (2 to the 32nd power) = 4GB memory spaces.
The computer has to be able to see the RAM + VRAM + other devices on Motherboard, etc.
e.g. If you have 1GB VRAM and “other devices” takes up 0.3GB, you will only be able to use a max of 2.7GB (4 - 1 - 0.3 = 2.7) .
In this case, if you install 3GB, you waste 0.3GB…if you install 4GB you waste 1.3GB!

We don't know how much ram it has, that 6MB is the cache of the processor. And it will be able to handle 6GBs of ram it just won't be able to use it all.

smemon

rasmasyean wrote: »

There are not going to give you a 6GB computer in 32-bit. It can't handle it.

32-bit means it can only “see” 2^32 (2 to the 32nd power) = 4GB memory spaces.
The computer has to be able to see the RAM + VRAM + other devices on Motherboard, etc.
e.g. If you have 1GB VRAM and “other devices” takes up 0.3GB, you will only be able to use a max of 2.7GB (4 - 1 - 0.3 = 2.7) .
In this case, if you install 3GB, you waste 0.3GB…if you install 4GB you waste 1.3GB!

If you've bought for the future it's not wasted.... your CPU and whole system is 64bit ready - the only thing holding you back is your 32 bit OS.

Switch to 64bit OS and that extra gig or so will come back in to play...

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

rasmasyean

smemon wrote: »

If you've bought for the future it's not wasted.... your CPU and whole system is 64bit ready - the only thing holding you back is your 32 bit OS.

Switch to 64bit OS and that extra gig or so will come back in to play...

You can type "Welcome Center" in the Instant Search Box and then click show more details.

It will tell you.

If they gave you 4GB and a 32-bit OS, I would reckon that you wll lose some of it depending on how man MB you Video card has.

If you want the 64-bit to "future-proof" it, as well as get back some of the lost RAM, you might be able to complain to Dell that they gave you the wrong OS.

Up to you. But you will not be able to "upgrade" the OS to 64-bit. You will have to reinstall the whole thing and copy your files over and install programs, etc.

AlmightyCushion

eVeNtInE wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The main difference is the amount of memory it can use. 32bit can only use 4GB max (this is total system memory for all devices, so it is less than 4GB and can vary depending on the computer). 64 bit is limited to a lot more (can't remember how much).

rasmasyean

eVeNtInE wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055401425&page=2

aidan_walsh

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The main difference is the amount of memory it can use. 32bit can only use 4GB max (this is total system memory for all devices, so it is less than 4GB and can vary depending on the computer). 64 bit is limited to a lot more (can't remember how much).

16.8m TB, according to Wikipedia.

samhail

2^32 gives max of 4GB or ram, 2^64 give max of like 16 Million GB if my calculations are right


i did get 4GB of RAM with that machine, doesnt say if the vista is 32bit or 64bit... im gonna rip into dell if they gave me 32bit version. if its a 64bit processor.

samhail

rasmasyean wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055401425&page=2

jeaaaz... ill give u your thanks heh.

rasmasyean

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The main difference is the amount of memory it can use. 32bit can only use 4GB max (this is total system memory for all devices, so it is less than 4GB and can vary depending on the computer). 64 bit is limited to a lot more (can't remember how much).

2^64 = 1.84467E+19

But in practice, you can't get that because there is an OS limit.


...all 64-bit versions of Microsoft operating systems currently impose a 16 TB limit on address space and allow no more than 128 GB of physical memory due to the impracticality of having 16 TB of RAM. Processes created on Windows Vista x64 Edition are allotted 8 TB in virtual memory for user processes and 8 TB for kernel processes to create a virtual memory of 16 TB.
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5709

AlmightyCushion

aidan_walsh wrote: »

16.8m TB, according to Wikipedia.

Is that all? Should have just skipped it and made vista 128bit.

samhail wrote: »

2^32 gives max of 4GB or ram, 2^64 give max of like 16 Million GB if my calculations are right


i did get 4GB of RAM with that machine, doesnt say if the vista is 32bit or 64bit... im gonna rip into dell if they gave me 32bit version. if its a 64bit processor.

The processor is 64bit. Dell more than likely have 32bit on it. You can install 64bit on it if you like as the license will work with both 32bit and 64bit.

rasmasyean

samhail wrote: »

2^32 gives max of 4GB or ram, 2^64 give max of like 16 Million GB if my calculations are right


i did get 4GB of RAM with that machine, doesnt say if the vista is 32bit or 64bit... im gonna rip into dell if they gave me 32bit version. if its a 64bit processor.

Did you click "show more details"?

samhail

Havnt gotten the machine yet. i only ordered it over a month ago (and its taken them nearly a week to put it in a box (moaning thread somewhere else )
hopefully this week.

samhail

samhail wrote: »

Havnt gotten the machine yet. i only ordered it over a month ago (and its taken them nearly a week to put it in a box (moaning thread somewhere else )
hopefully this week.

Manufacturer Dell Inc.
Model Dell XPS420
Total amount of system memory 4.00 GB RAM
System type 32-bit operating system
Number of processor cores 2
64-bit capable Yes


64bit capable !!! ???
oh they are good to me !

rasmasyean

samhail wrote: »

Manufacturer Dell Inc.
Model Dell XPS420
Total amount of system memory 4.00 GB RAM
System type 32-bit operating system
Number of processor cores 2
64-bit capable Yes


64bit capable !!! ???
oh they are good to me !

I take it that it was one of those...
Overstocked computers that didn't sell so they put more RAM into it, renamed it, and put it back on the site to compete with other retailers.

AlmightyCushion

rasmasyean wrote: »

I take it that it was one of those...
Overstocked computers that didn't sell so they put more RAM into it, renamed it, and put it back on the site to compete with other retailers.

Any dell I've seen has been 32bit (yes even the ones with 4GBs ram) the only oem pcs I have seen with 64bit are HPs and even that was recently enough. 64bit is slightly more problematic than vista 32bit so will cause them less hassle. Any one who actually knows what vista 64bit is will more than likely be able to install vista 64bit anyways.

samhail

i saw someone asking the questions recently but havnt caught up with any replies. How do i source the 64bit Vista ? i know my 32bit key will work

rasmasyean

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Any dell I've seen has been 32bit (yes even the ones with 4GBs ram) the only oem pcs I have seen with 64bit are HPs and even that was recently enough. 64bit is slightly more problematic than vista 32bit so will cause them less hassle. Any one who actually knows what vista 64bit is will more than likely be able to install vista 64bit anyways.

Heh, if you "customize up to 8 GB", it gives you 64-bit.
If you "customize up to 4 GB", it gives you 32-bit.

AlmightyCushion

rasmasyean wrote: »

Heh, if you "customize up to 8 GB", it gives you 64-bit.
If you "customize up to 4 GB", it gives you 32-bit.

Well that's a bit of a no brainer.

Biro

samhail wrote: »

i saw someone asking the questions recently but havnt caught up with any replies. How do i source the 64bit Vista ? i know my 32bit key will work

Leave it 32-bit for now. 64-bit is a bit of a problem with some software and drivers still. Trying to move to Citrix-64 bit at work with Server 2003 x64 but abandoned after a month or so testing. Was advised not to bother by Citrix themselves due to driver problems mainly.
Depending on what you use you could be lucky and have 64-bit drivers for everything you might use, but best just run with 32-bit for now and wait for Longhorn to upgrade!

samhail

Biro wrote: »

Leave it 32-bit for now. 64-bit is a bit of a problem with some software and drivers still. Trying to move to Citrix-64 bit at work with Server 2003 x64 but abandoned after a month or so testing. Was advised not to bother by Citrix themselves due to driver problems mainly.
Depending on what you use you could be lucky and have 64-bit drivers for everything you might use, but best just run with 32-bit for now and wait for Longhorn to upgrade!

Thanks for the advice ! will do.

rasmasyean

Biro wrote: »

Leave it 32-bit for now. 64-bit is a bit of a problem with some software and drivers still. Trying to move to Citrix-64 bit at work with Server 2003 x64 but abandoned after a month or so testing. Was advised not to bother by Citrix themselves due to driver problems mainly.
Depending on what you use you could be lucky and have 64-bit drivers for everything you might use, but best just run with 32-bit for now and wait for Longhorn to upgrade!

What are you talking about dude? How many people use Citrix for home computers? That's like something you put on a laptop issued by a mega corporation! :rolleyes: And that's Server 2003. Not a desktop OS.

Overheal

According to gizmodo it wont be until windows 8 that we see a pure 64 bit OS. Windows 7 will still be shipping with a 32 bit version.

rasmasyean

Overheal wrote: »

According to gizmodo it wont be until windows 8 that we see a pure 64 bit OS. Windows 7 will still be shipping with a 32 bit version.

That's because there will still be 16-bit software that some people will still want to use. I imagine it will be low volume however.

Today, when you go to the store, most units are 64-bit if they are 4GB and upgradeable to 64-bit if they have less than 4GB...except those really old ones that are like $300. Most units have 4GB or more. RAM is dirt cheap. Before you know it, next year, the standard may be 16 GB.

Biro

rasmasyean wrote: »

What are you talking about dude? How many people use Citrix for home computers? That's like something you put on a laptop issued by a mega corporation! :rolleyes: And that's Server 2003. Not a desktop OS.

I'm talking about availability of drivers and software in general for 64-bit OS's. As I said, if what you have already has 64-bit drivers available and any software you have is compatible then work away.
No one uses Citrix for home computers. At the same time Citrix can be used to publish software that is already used by many home users. Depends on what you use. If you don't have a specific need for a 64-bit OS, then there's no point in upgrading to one before time.

Cuddlesworth

Biro wrote: »

I'm talking about availability of drivers and software in general for 64-bit OS's. As I said, if what you have already has 64-bit drivers available and any software you have is compatible then work away.
No one uses Citrix for home computers. At the same time Citrix can be used to publish software that is already used by many home users. Depends on what you use. If you don't have a specific need for a 64-bit OS, then there's no point in upgrading to one before time.

Tbh I have found that any software or hardware, the majority of the time its not the bit size thats the problem, its Vista.

Biro

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Tbh I have found that any software or hardware, the majority of the time its not the bit size thats the problem, its Vista.

That's a whole other thread!
It's getting a lot better now though.

rasmasyean

Biro wrote: »

That's a whole other thread!
It's getting a lot better now though.

All you have to do is google "vista compatibility list" and you get this wiki.
http://www.iexbeta.com/wiki/index.php/Windows_Vista_Software_Compatibility_List

And over time, thing just keep moving into the "works" section and things keep moving out of the "has problems" sections into the "works" sections. There are also patched people discover...AND custom made...for really old stuff. I've applied them to some of my games, which is mostly what people "keep forever" anyway.

rasmasyean

Biro wrote: »

I'm talking about availability of drivers and software in general for 64-bit OS's. As I said, if what you have already has 64-bit drivers available and any software you have is compatible then work away.
No one uses Citrix for home computers. At the same time Citrix can be used to publish software that is already used by many home users. Depends on what you use. If you don't have a specific need for a 64-bit OS, then there's no point in upgrading to one before time.

It's not always about whether you have a specific need for a 64-bit OS. It's sometimes about whether you have a specific need (want) more RAM. It's dirt cheap and before you know it, 16GB will be standard before Windows 7. Not sure if you used Vista of if you know what more RAM means in Vista.

Vista uses extra RAM to store commonly used files in an activity known as “SuperFetch”. It basically turns your extra RAM into a “smart Hard Drive”. The computer uses artificial intelligence to determine which files will be used most and copies it to RAM (where it is much faster than accessing your hard disk). This includes components of the programs you use on a regular basis and it even adapts to when and how you use these programs. So the more RAM (for SuperFetch) you have, the faster your computer will operate. Think multitasking. Think of returning to your computer from sleep with all your programs still open and you “smart HD” pre-filled and ready to work for you. With 64-bit, there are many more advantages than just running 64-bit programs. This can also be augmented (to a lesser effect) with a flash drive/card with a technology called ReadyBoost. Just stick it in and select “Speed up my system” and leave it there. Google “AnandTech ReadyBoost Performance” for basic test examples.

It’s not XP technology anymore. That’s ancient history. Think of your “free RAM” as a “Smart Hard Drive”. The more you use your computer, the more Vista knows how to morph the Smart HD into something that will make your computer performance customized to your habits.

Understanding how SuperFetch uses RAM to enhance system performance…
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=735

Windows Vista - SuperFetch & ReadyBoost
http://blogs.technet.com/askperf/archive/2007/03/29/windows-vista-superfetch-readyboost.aspx