Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Krusty_Clown

smmoore79 wrote: »

Great win the other day. Very good time for a hilly course. I would have been nervous about taking a wrong turn had i been in your shoes! Im so used to pinning off the people ahead to get round

I had a Garda squad car to follow the whole way around the course, so I had a distinct advantage over dna_leri and the other handful of top placed finishers, but the course was really well marked and marshaled. The squad car was always around 150m ahead, so psychologically it was great to have something to chase! I did spare a few thoughts about wether or not the squad car knew the right way around the course, but thankfully, they didn't put a foot wrong.

RayCun

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I had a Garda squad car to follow the whole way around the course,

you'd want to be careful with that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ6lvrA8m94

Krusty_Clown

I'm no fool. I know that last week's race was about being in exactly the right place, at the right time. It was a great experience, but it didn't give me any indication of whether I'm making any progress or not in training, as it was a particularly unique type of situation. Since the race, I have only been doing easy runs, and with a packed weekend, getting an interval/speed session completed was going to be tough, and truth be told, motivation for a hard training session wasn't high. The St Coca's 5k road race was the perfect solution. 20 minutes from where I work, a Friday evening (which got me nicely off the hook from a boozing session), tough enough that I wouldn't feel guilty about not running a tempo/interval session, and a guaranteed PB. What more could you ask for?

As it turns out, I could have asked for better weather. The rain was horrendous. A non-stop downpour. But I had mentally committed myself, so off I headed for Kilcock. Eventually resigning myself to a soaking, I did a 1.5 mile warm-up, before shedding my extra t-shirt, and joining the miserable three of four hundred runners at the start line.

I have only ever run one 5km race before and it was in March 2009; the MSB 5k, in a time of 19:03, so a PB was all but guaranteed. However, having little experience at this distance, I figured the best tactic would be to go out at my McMillan 10k training pace, and try and reel-in some time towards the end of the race. I started around 5 or 6 rows back, which was a bit of a mistake, as I spent the first part of the race trying to claw my way through the field.

The first mile was all about settling in and finding a group to run with. Each group I approached was running at too slow a pace so I would catch them and push on. Eventually I was passing runners with less frequency, but was still pushing from group to group. Mile 1: 5:41, bang on target. Mile 2 had a climb over the bridge that crossed the M4, so I eased back a little on the climb, before pushing the pace a little on the subsequent down-hill. I found a group of around 6 runners who were all running strong and well, including one incredibly strong looking female. We dropped a couple from the group and chased down another couple of groups, making solid progress. Eventually the pace started to ease back, so I pushed the pace a little to join the next group that was around 20m ahead, and a few of the existing runners came with me. Mile 2: 5:40.

Started to feel the pace a lot during mile 3, and with 1km to go, I was beginning to hurt. I had been running at the front of the group for a while. There was no wind, but psychologically it was tough. With around 600m to go we caught some other groups, and I decided to push past them and onwards for the finish line. Within 100m I was regretting my decision. I was dying. I pushed too early. There's no way I can hang on to this pace. I'm going to get passed by all the runners from the group I've been running with. Rookie mistake. I get over-taken by one runner, and can't hold on to his pace, but I decide I won't be passed by anyone else. I picked up the pace, hearing challengers behind me, I pump my legs as fast as they can go, feeling like my heart is about to explode. I can see the finish line. I just have to hold on. It's getting closer. I'm running as fast as I can. Mile 3 passes in 5:31. I manage to hold out and don't get passed by anyone else, finishing the last stretch at 4:57/mile pace, relieved that I managed to hold it together.

I really enjoyed the race. It had the spark that I was looking for. The feeling of running in a group, and vying for places. The feeling of giving your body a brutal hammering and then pushing a little bit harder. I was a long way from the front of the field, but it just felt a little more genuine, a little more real.

I'm well happy with my finishing time of 17:16 is it is exactly where I want to be right now. Without too much clock watching, I hit my goal time (before I knew what my goal time was). MacMillan (who has always served me well) has me bang on track for where I was last year for my goal marathon, but I still have three months of marathon training to come.

Nice to meet-up up with Wounded Knee and Ultraman over a ham sandwich and a cup of coffee after the race. Both of them are potentially headed to Belfast for the 24 hour track race, so this 5k is probably some light refreshment before a weekend of serious mileage. No races planned for me for next week, so hopefully and end to the long drawn-out self-congratulatory race reports, and back to '5 easy miles in Corkagh Park'!

Summary: 5k in 17:16, @5:36/mile, HR=172

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm no fool. I know that last week's race was about being in exactly the right place, at the right time. It was a great experience, but it didn't give me any indication of whether I'm making any progress or not in training, as it was a particularly unique type of situation. Since the race, I have only been doing easy runs, and with a packed weekend, getting an interval/speed session completed was going to be tough, and truth be told, motivation for a hard training session wasn't high. The St Coca's 5k road race was the perfect solution. 20 minutes from where I work, a Friday evening (which got me nicely off the hook from a boozing session), tough enough that I wouldn't feel guilty about not running a tempo/interval session, and a guaranteed PB. What more could you ask for?

As it turns out, I could have asked for better weather. The rain was horrendous. A non-stop downpour. But I had mentally committed myself, so off I headed for Kilcock. Eventually resigning myself to a soaking, I did a 1.5 mile warm-up, before shedding my extra t-shirt, and joining the miserable three of four hundred runners at the start line.

I have only ever run one 5km race before and it was in March 2009; the MSB 5k, in a time of 19:03, so a PB was all but guaranteed. However, having little experience at this distance, I figured the best tactic would be to go out at my McMillan 10k training pace, and try and reel-in some time towards the end of the race. I started around 5 or 6 rows back, which was a bit of a mistake, as I spent the first part of the race trying to claw my way through the field.

The first mile was all about settling in and finding a group to run with. Each group I approached was running at too slow a pace so I would catch them and push on. Eventually I was passing runners with less frequency, but was still pushing from group to group. Mile 1: 5:41, bang on target. Mile 2 had a climb over the bridge that crossed the M4, so I eased back a little on the climb, before pushing the pace a little on the subsequent down-hill. I found a group of around 6 runners who were all running strong and well, including one incredibly strong looking female. We dropped a couple from the group and chased down another couple of groups, making solid progress. Eventually the pace started to ease back, so I pushed the pace a little to join the next group that was around 20m ahead, and a few of the existing runners came with me. Mile 2: 5:40.

Started to feel the pace a lot during mile 3, and with 1km to go, I was beginning to hurt. I had been running at the front of the group for a while. There was no wind, but psychologically it was tough. With around 600m to go we caught some other groups, and I decided to push past them and onwards for the finish line. Within 100m I was regretting my decision. I was dying. I pushed too early. There's no way I can hang on to this pace. I'm going to get passed by all the runners from the group I've been running with. Rookie mistake. I get over-taken by one runner, and can't hold on to his pace, but I decide I won't be passed by anyone else. I picked up the pace, hearing challengers behind me, I pump my legs as fast as they can go, feeling like my heart is about to explode. I can see the finish line. I just have to hold on. It's getting closer. I'm running as fast as I can. Mile 3 passes in 5:31. I manage to hold out and don't get passed by anyone else, finishing the last stretch at 4:57/mile pace, relieved that I managed to hold it together.

I really enjoyed the race. It had the spark that I was looking for. The feeling of running in a group, and vying for places. The feeling of giving your body a brutal hammering and then pushing a little bit harder. I was a long way from the front of the field, but it just felt a little more genuine, a little more real.

I'm well happy with my finishing time of 17:16 is it is exactly where I want to be right now. Without too much clock watching, I hit my goal time (before I knew what my goal time was). MacMillan (who has always served me well) has me bang on track for where I was last year for my goal marathon, but I still have three months of marathon training to come.

Nice to meet-up up with Wounded Knee and Ultraman over a ham sandwich and a cup of coffee after the race. Both of them are potentially headed to Belfast for the 24 hour track race, so this 5k is probably some light refreshment before a weekend of serious mileage. No races planned for me for next week, so hopefully and end to the long drawn-out self-congratulatory race reports, and back to '5 easy miles in Corkagh Park'!

Summary: 5k in 17:16, @5:36/mile, HR=172

Congrats on the PB

Very Good race considering lack of sharper work. Reckon you well capable of a sub 17 no doubt especially with conservative start (10k training pace). The bit of sharper work will definitely stand to you on the long run

Abhainn

Sub 17 all the way KC. Good running

Slogger Jogger

Fab run! A sub 17 could have been on the cards had the conditions been better and you weren't caught up earlier on. 172 hr says it all. You worked hard for that time.

Krusty_Clown

ecoli wrote: »

Congrats on the PB

Very Good race considering lack of sharper work. Reckon you well capable of a sub 17 no doubt especially with conservative start (10k training pace). The bit of sharper work will definitely stand to you on the long run

Cheers ecoli. They have me down for 17:06, but I reckon 17:16 is closer to my finish time (for 20th position). After the race, I thought of several ways I could gain a couple of vital seconds, so hopefully if I get another shot soon, I'll get a bit closer.
What do you mean by sharper work? I have been doing 200s and 400s at 5k pace, and 1 & 2 mile intervals at 10k pace recently. Sharper than that?

Krusty_Clown

Today: Very handy 5 mile recovery run in Shangannagh Park. Legs/feet felt a little bit sore going to bed (forgot my race shoes for the race last night, so had to bring an ill-fitting pair of heavy shoes that I normally reserve for recovery runs), but waking up this morning, everything felt good. Nice easy run in the humid afternoon, though the Garmin was acting up, reporting faster numbers than I was running.
Summary: 5miles in 41 mins, @~8:04/mile, HR=127

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Cheers ecoli. They have me down for 17:06, but I reckon 17:16 is closer to my finish time (for 20th position). After the race, I thought of several ways I could gain a couple of vital seconds, so hopefully if I get another shot soon, I'll get a bit closer.
What do you mean by sharper work? I have been doing 200s and 400s at 5k pace, and 1 & 2 mile intervals at 10k pace recently. Sharper than that?

20x200 would exactly be my idea of a sharpener session more so a 5k rhythm session. Would say in terms of sharper sessions the odd Mile-3k pace reps might not even be a bad idea. My coach has me doing a good bit of this at the moment to prepare me for a good fast 5k later in the summer.

Something like 2x(10x200m w/200 rec) with 3-4 min between sets in 36-37s might be an alternative. Again this is only if focusing for a 5k at the moment. Definitely think that you have the strength and could well run 16.40-16.50 if that was your goal. Remember this race was not a target race but rather just so you wouldnt feel guilty about missing a session. Also it takes a few quicker races to shock the system more so than the longer races into running to your potential.

Taking nothing away from the race though still a brilliant run and a savage new PB

Krusty_Clown

ecoli wrote: »

Taking nothing away from the race though still a brilliant run and a savage new PB

Cheers for the advice ecoli. I've never thought of 5k as a goal distance and certainly ducking under 17 minutes wouldn't have occurred to me as a goal either. Unfortunately I'll be kicking off my marathon training in a week or two. However, if I remember correctly (and I can't find my P&D book, so working from memory and training logs!) there are lots of 5k reps in the P&D program, e.g.:
5x600m / 5x1200m / 6x1000m / 3 z 1600m
These types of sessions are over the course of a 12 week program. If I do these at current 5k pace, do you think they would give me an edge for a 5k race, or simply serve their purpose at sharpening me for the marathon?

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Cheers for the advice ecoli. I've never thought of 5k as a goal distance and certainly ducking under 17 minutes wouldn't have occurred to me as a goal either. Unfortunately I'll be kicking off my marathon training in a week or two. However, if I remember correctly (and I can't find my P&D book, so working from memory and training logs!) there are lots of 5k reps in the P&D program, e.g.:
5x600m / 5x1200m / 6x1000m / 3 z 1600m
These types of sessions are over the course of a 12 week program. If I do these at current 5k pace, do you think they would give me an edge for a 5k race, or simply serve their purpose at sharpening me for the marathon?

I think you would definitely drop a few seconds alright off your 5k alright however wouldnt be a fan of 5k paced sessions in the 8 weeks coming up to a marathon prefer Marathon specific sessions in this stage as well as the odd 10k one.

Remember one of Tergats post regarding this

tergat wrote: »

VO2 max reps (Speedwork) are unnecessary and often detrimental in the last 8 weeks of training prior to a marathon. The reason is simple - you do NOT want to elevate anaerobic capacity during this time frame. VO2 max reps, not only tend to raise maximum oxygen consumption, but they elevate fuel burning rate of sugar (glucose and glycogen) and raise anaerobic capacity. The result is reduced ability to hold a good race-pace after about 90 minutes of running. People who do too many VO2 max reps slow down drastically in the last 10-15km of a marathon race!

If you want quicker running, go for strides (no more than 30 seconds per rep) and with sufficient recovery running between each so that no residual fatigue carries over from one rep to the next. This would be a good workout to improve neural coordination. It would improve running economy, too.

Otherwise, the fastest extended rep you need to run is CV pace (a pace you can run in a 40-45 minute race or add 8-12 secs per km to your CURRENT 5km pace per km).

Do plenty of Marathon and Half-Marathon paced training during Big Workouts (long runs with quality included) and you'll improve marathon performance enormously!

Tergat

Krusty_Clown

ecoli wrote: »

I think you would definitely drop a few seconds alright off your 5k alright however wouldnt be a fan of 5k paced sessions in the 8 weeks coming up to a marathon prefer Marathon specific sessions in this stage as well as the odd 10k one.

Remember one of Tergats post regarding this

I hear you... At the same time, it's a program that has served me very well for three marathons, so I'm reluctant to tamper with it too much. The 5k sessions are only every other couple of weeks (about 5 of them over the course of the 12 weeks) and most of the focus is on PMP and 10 mile to half marathon tempo pace runs, so it would be largely consistent with Tergat's advice. During a prolonged program like this, I actually look forward to the 5k intervals, just for a bit of a change from the long slog runs, just for a change of pace (so that's where the expression came from!).

ecoli

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I hear you... At the same time, it's a program that has served me very well for three marathons, so I'm reluctant to tamper with it too much. The 5k sessions are only every other couple of weeks (about 5 of them over the course of the 12 weeks) and most of the focus is on PMP and 10 mile to half marathon tempo pace runs, so it would be largely consistent with Tergat's advice. During a prolonged program like this, I actually look forward to the 5k intervals, just for a bit of a change from the long slog runs, just for a change of pace (so that's where the expression came from!).

Havent read P&D myself so was just basing off the lots of 5k reps comment my bad:o .I reckon few like that is no problem alright just to add variety to training and not to ignore any training aspect as long as it not over done alright

Krusty_Clown

ecoli wrote: »

Havent read P&D myself so was just basing off the lots of 5k reps comment my bad:o .I reckon few like that is no problem alright just to add variety to training and not to ignore any training aspect as long as it not over done alright

For me, 5 x 5k interval sessions is lots.
Now enough typing from me, time for some running.

Sosa

Did you do your 3*2m yet ?
I have mine this week and i thought you were a week or two ahead of me...

Krusty_Clown

Sosa wrote: »

Did you do your 3*2m yet ?
I have mine this week and i thought you were a week or two ahead of me...

Hi Sosa, no, I never did. I was hoping to have it line-up with a goal 10k race (run the week before the goal race), but my plans for Dunshaughlin (which took place last night) fell apart due to another commitment. So I'm looking for a goal 10k race and will do the session shortly beforehand. In the mean-time I've been racing weekly (for the last three weeks) so I reckon that'll keep up the intensity until I do the session. Running out of time though, as marathon training starts in two weeks.

Krusty_Clown

Today: Broken plans!
Plan was 15 miles, with 3 x 2 miles at PMP with an easy mile in between. Not a session, just a 'get used to the pace' kind of run. 4.5 mile warm-up, and warm-up is exactly what I did, in the afternoon heat over a gradual 4 mile climb. Kicked off the first two mile PMP interval, and it went ok, but towards the end, I was feeling all of yesterday's bottles of beer/glasses of wine, so having finished the two miles, I took a break at the shop for a much needed bottle of water. Another easy mile as the heat picked up noticeably and off again.

I was motoring nicely, feeling restored after the bottle of water, and completed this one on target too, on a slightly downhill route, with a head-wind, just to even the odds. Then on the next easy mile, I was struck with agonizing stomach cramps (dodgy diet yesterday) and could only hobble. Stuck in the leafy affluence of Westminster, I couldn't find any secluded spot that would result in anything other than a Montgomery Burns'esque releasing of the hounds, so I jumped into the car (where I had left it the previous day) and headed for home.

20 minutes later, dangerous pressure levels restored to neutral, I headed out again, to complete the session, but after another easy mile the body wasn't having any of it. There would be no other intervals today. Instead I contented myself with running five easy miles on the grass, with some strides thrown in (just so the body would know it wasn't the boss). Finished tired and thirsty, but glad to have gotten 16 miles under the belt in awkward circumstances.

Summary: 16.3 miles over the course of two runs.

Emer911

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Summary: 16.3 miles over the course of two runs.

... no pun intended, I'm sure!:p

Krusty_Clown

Today (yesterday at this stage): 5 Mile grass recovery run
Missed out on the usual lunch-time run because I was up against the wall in work, but it was nice to do a recovery run after I got home for a change. Cracking sky and sunset, and if those bleedin shepherds are to be believed, it'll be a fab day tomorrow. Body's feeling good again.

Summary: 5 miles in 40 mins, @8:05/mile, HR=126

Krusty_Clown

Today (yesterday at this stage again): Handy 5 miles around Corkagh Park with a work buddy. I included some strides, which made the run a little more useful than a second consecutive recovery run.
Summary: 5 miles in 40 mins.

Krusty_Clown

Today: Brisk 10k lunch-time run
With another pacing thingy this weekend (Clontarf Half) and a couple of easy runs in the legs, figured it was time for a quicker run, but I had a conference call to get back to work to, so had limited time. No warm-up, just out of the office and up along the outer ring road towards Tallaght. Bit of a head-wind on the way out, but given back to me on the return leg. Slowed for the last mile, so I didn't arrive back into the office in a sloppy quivering mess. Satisfied with the run (for a lunch-time), however my pace was approximately the same as my planned marathon pace, so my HR of 160 should be lower. Looking back on my records, my average HR for my first PMP run last year had an average HR of 154. Ho hum... Too early to draw conclusions, but not a great sign, two weeks before I start the program.

Summary: 10k in 38:38, @6:13/mile, HR=161

Krusty_Clown

Evening: 10k easy recovery run
Arrived home at a reasonable hour for a change. The family were out, except for my son who was cooking dinner (a potential disaster, waiting to happen), and the TV is broke, so nothing for it but to head back out into the sunshine for another 10k. This time at a more sedate pace, on the more yielding surface of the grass. Billions of green flies and other bugs (the rain's a comin') but a grand stretch of the legs.

Summary: 10k in 52 mins, @8:27/mile, HR=125

Krusty_Clown

Today: Easy 6 mile lunch-time run
Really wasn't in the mood, so went exploring instead of hitting the usual routes, wandering around the estates in Clondalkin, trying to find a back-way into Corkagh Park. Encountered a vicious Alsatian, who I reckon was only a jump over a small fence from attacking me. His barking and growling alerted the owner who came out and promptly about-faced and headed towards his shed (presumably to pick up his shot-gun). No more trips up the Upper Nangor Road. Eventually, weaved my way through the estates into the back of the park, and found myself totally devoid of any energy. I did a quick calculation and realized that I have inadvertently forgotten to drink any beer this week, which probably explains the lethargy. Onwards to a seldom used field in Corkagh, which seems to be used by scramblers and horse and traps only, so probably not best visited by someone in a day-glow orange running top, particularly with marching season around the corner. Back into the normal populous area of the park and an easy mile or two back to the office.

Summary: 6 miles in 48 mins, @7:48/mile, HR=~122

donothoponpop

I'm surprised no-one has organized a "Garvaghy road 10k" yet for the Twalfth. You'd be guaranteed the crowds, and your road closure order would just be a red-faced man in bowler hat spouting angrily about the right to traverse the Queen's Highway at a time of his choosing... Taxpayer would foot any bill for policing, you could even release father Neil Horan at the end for the laughs.

Krusty_Clown

Yesterday: 8 Mile trail run
The perfect antidote to a long week in work, I threw on the Salomons and headed for the hills. As a teenager, society forced me to stop having fun. No longer could I go exploring paths and overgrown leafy tunnels to see where they go. Chasing squirrels was considered unacceptable. Leaping from rock to rock? Gone. Getting scrapes and scratches? Uncool. Running down steep hills with your arms flapping? Get with the program...

As an adult? Just call it 'running', and it's all good.

Summary: 8 miles in 71 mins,@8:47mile, HR=140

aigster

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Yesterday: 8 Mile trail run
The perfect antidote to a long week in work, I threw on the Salomons and headed for the hills. As a teenager, society forced me to stop having fun. No longer could I go exploring paths and overgrown leafy tunnels to see where they go. Chasing squirrels was considered unacceptable. Leaping from rock to rock? Gone. Getting scrapes and scratches? Uncool. Running down steep hills with your arms flapping? Get with the program...

As an adult? Just call it 'running', and it's all good.

Summary: 8 miles in 71 mins,@8:47mile, HR=140

So you left your hoody and spray paint behind then !!?
Nice report... I'm still racing at your cruising pace but it's all good!

Krusty_Clown

aigster wrote: »

So you left your hoody and spray paint behind then !!?
Nice report... I'm still racing at your cruising pace but it's all good!

I mark my territory using the more traditional method.

aigster

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

aigster wrote: »

So you left your hoody and spray paint behind then !!?
Nice report... I'm still racing at your cruising pace but it's all good!

I mark my territory using the more traditional method.

are you pacing 2moro... Hoping to
make it. . Hamstring issues at the minute...

Krusty_Clown

Today: Recovery 5 miles on the grass with strides
Just a recovery run to try and stretch out the legs(and achilles), and some strides to prepare for tomorrow's half marathon pacing gig. Have no real interest in running this one, but that's what you get for opening your big mouth once too often. At least the wind looks pretty benign in Clontarf, which was a bit of a concern. Still, the discipline of pacing will ensure i keep a nice consistent run. I'll try and sneak in a few extra miles to bring the run into medium-long territory.

Summary: 5 miles in 39 mins, @7:47/mile, HR=128

Krusty_Clown

Today: Pacing the 1:30 group for the Clontarf Half Marathon
Beautiful day (if a little hot), the wind was nothing more than a gentle tickle. Nice to meet up with the old Boards hands, and the next generation of Boards runners (good to put some faces to the names!) before the race, and very amusing watching the bunch of pacers' balloons disappearing towards the horizon, before a whistle was blown or a bead of sweat earned.

1.5 mile warm-up, where I felt absolutely horrendous, and considered packing up and going home, but in the end I stuck around, and as soon as the race began, I felt grand. Met up with Damien Martin of Raheny fame, who was the other 1:30 pacer, and he seemed keen to marshal the group, so I stuck to the middle of the group and chatted to some of the other runners. We started around 10 seconds down, but made this up over the first couple of miles. Hitting the sand towards the beach was a bit of a shocker. If the rest of the beach sections were going to be like this, it was going to be a horrendous run. Thankfully as we hit the beach proper, the sand was harder packed, and except for the occasional loss of traction, the surface was fine.

Coming off the beach, you could really feel the temperature picking up, and even as early as mile 5, some of the runners were beginning to drop off the pace. We had built up a 20-30 second cushion, but the heat was really causing some of the border-line 90 minute runners some trouble. As we headed to the half-way point, it was cool to see the lead runners coming back at us. A quick bottle of water and it was our turn to turn back towards the homeward leg. Mile by mile we'd drop a runner, and there was little we could do about it. We'd take turns running back to try and pick them up, before being forced to rejoin the pace. Back on the sand again, and we were motoring nicely. Hitting the wooden bridge for the second time more runners were struggling, but we would soon turn the corner and head on the home stretch.

In the end we cajoled around 7 or 8 runners under the gantry ahead of 1:30 pace (1:29:00), but markedly, these runners were well up the field, finishing in the top 15-25 of the field. We could probably have run 30 seconds slower, but on a hot day like today, those two seconds slower per mile really wouldn't have made that much of a difference. If you were in borderline 1:30 form, that heat would have ripped you apart at race pace.

Afterwards, met up with a work-buddy on the promenade, so did another 3 very easy miles just warm-down and bring up the total mileage to 17.5 miles.

Summary: 17.5 miles, with 13 miles @6:45/mile and HR=148