Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

BeepBeep67

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Question: How do you devise a 10k route, which starts and finishes at approximately the same place, yet seems to be entirely up-hill? How can you create a route that defies the laws of physics? I don't know the answer, but you can be sure that Beepbeep67 is involved somehow.

This is a tough route. I cannot think of a stretch of road that doesn't have a drag or uphill section, while the down-hills seem to be brief and unfulfilling. It's a nice route, but not an easy one! I'm glad the focus is on tempo rather than PB (who am I kidding?), and am looking forward to the run. It seems to be exceptionally well organized and has drawn a massive participation list. But it will be remembered as a tough race (I can say this now, as the registration has closed. It's too late for anyone to back out now!

It's not that bad - you must have been tired before you got there , you'll appreciate the downhills more on Sunday

Krusty_Clown

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

you'll appreciate the downhills more on Sunday

Sunday? Eek! Better update the DLR Bay 10k thread. Or will I? <evil cackle>

BeepBeep67

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sunday? Eek! Better update the DLR Bay 10k thread. Or will I? <evil cackle>

There's no downhills on Monday :rolleyes:

Krusty_Clown

Today: 6 Easy miles plus strides = 7 Miles
6 Recovery miles chasing my daughter on her bike (not so long ago it was the other way around) and finishing up in the local park, where I did 6x150m strides barefoot on the grass. I'd swear my legs actually feel better immediately after doing them. Must try and get into the habit.
Summary: 6 Miles + 1 Mile

aero2k

Great running recently - have a good one on Monday.

Krusty_Clown

aero2k wrote: »

Great running recently - have a good one on Monday.

Cheers Sean.Will we see you at the Frank Duffy for a pop at sub 60?

opus

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Back to the run. I decided this long run would involve some self-flagellation, so skipped the water and gels. The plan went better than expected and I still managed to finish the last four miles at PMP +10% (around 6:48/mile) before an easy warm-down mile. The tank was running on fumes, but still managed the few quicker miles, so happy enough with how it went. I've also clocked up 72 miles in the last 7 days (not calendar week) which is more than like my highest mileage period evah! I think this calls for some beer. Life in harmony.

Looks like you're well on track there! Just wondering what your opinion about the P&D long runs & even MLR's is, I've been breaking them all into thirds so running the first at PMP+20%, second at +15% & finishing at +10% (my PMP would be a lot slower than yours of course ) good or bad idea do you think?

Krusty_Clown

Today: 5 mile easy recovery run
Just a handy 5 mile run in Shanganagh Park, with a few strides thrown in to try and coax a bit of speed into the legs in preparation for tomorrow's Mount Everest quest in Dun Laoghaire. Popped into the near-defunct Dun Laoghaire Shopping Centre and picked up my information pack (and boy was it jam-packed full of information!) from BeepBeep67 and the rest of the hard-working crew before heading home.

Printed off the beginner's orienteering map for my local hill, and grabbed the compass that I bought yesterday from my WW Relay winnings, then headed off with enthusiastic OH, reluctant-grumpy teenager, and energetic but soon-tired youngster for a scour around the hills of Carrigologan. Had great fun (or some of us did!), and will give a few more of the fixed orienteering courses a go. Hopefully some day I'll take up the challenge of an IMRA navigation race, but for the time-being, it's good fun to get out with the family and practice. Next time it might have to get more competitive though, just to ensure continued enthusiasm!

Summary: 5 easy miles in 38 mins, @7:40/mile, HR=~130

aero2k

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Cheers Sean.Will we see you at the Frank Duffy for a pop at sub 60?

Sub 60? Won't you be going for sub 59?

I'm signed up and looking forward to it. Form has been hit and miss, but I like that course, so why not give it a lash. See you there!

Krusty_Clown

opus wrote: »

Looks like you're well on track there! Just wondering what your opinion about the P&D long runs & even MLR's is, I've been breaking them all into thirds so running the first at PMP+20%, second at +15% & finishing at +10% (my PMP would be a lot slower than yours of course ) good or bad idea do you think?

Hi Opus, I'm a big fan of the progression runs, which'd be similar to the runs you've described. The thing is, I find as the mileage goes up, I end up running the faster sessions faster and the slower sessions slower, so the body can cope (the price of only finding running at middle-age). Personally, I couldn't hack running all the long and medium long runs in that manner, but I definitely think there's an advantage to finishing all of your long runs at a faster pace than the rest of the long run. You could be more resilient though. With the higher mileage P&D programs the medium long runs tend to hit and stick at around 15 miles. I can't imagine that they had a progression run in mind for a mid-week 15 mile run though, so best to take it handy enough and save the speedy miles for the sessions and the end of the long runs.

Krusty_Clown

aero2k wrote: »

Sub 60? Won't you be going for sub 59?

I'm signed up and looking forward to it. Form has been hit and miss, but I like that course, so why not give it a lash. See you there!

Ha, I wish I was in that kind of shape. I'd settle for a pb (preferably one of more than 5 seconds!).

Krusty_Clown

Today: DLR Bay 10k - Race
Not a goal race, but I secretly hoped to nip in a small PB today anyway. Right, lets get the excuses out of the way: No sleep, tired, hilly, mileage, blah, blah, blah.

Conditions were perfect, nice and cool, slightly damp, with only a mild gust of wind. A slip-of the finger/brain by the OH when registering me saw my official race target as sub-35, which unfortunately had me lining up in the Elite pen. I hung about at the periphery, and then lingered at the back of the pen until the barriers were removed and I dissolved into the background of similar-target runners, still around 30 runners from the front (out of the near 1,000-strong contingent of runners). One of the marshals tried to coax me to the front/start line, but I politely declined!

I didn't give enough thought to my strategy for the race. I had run it a couple of days previously as part of a long run, so knew that there were a number of short hills up as far as the 5.5km mark. Plan was to run 5:55 - 6:00/mile as far as the 5.5km mark, and then see what kind of time I could make-up on the downhill return journey to Dun Laoghaire. For the first mile I motored through a number of groups of runners and then a runner lined-up with me, asked me about my goal and then we formed our own group, with a few other runners joining in our wake. As we plugged our way up the first few climbs these runners fell-off my pace and by mile 2.5 I was on my own. I picked off a few runners without having it as a goal, I was just running faster than they were. I felt good and despite the persistent short hills, felt strong and comfortable. I had average pace displaying on the watch, and at the highest point, my average pace was 6:00. I didn't really think it through, but I was probably around 15 seconds behind track at that stage. I thought I was doing just fine.

I hit the start of the downhill, and focused on recovering for a spell, before trying to pick up the pace. I found it difficult to coax a change on the average pace display on my watch. It was holding steady at 6:00. Eventually, it started to drop a little (miles 5 and 6: 5:43 each). Picked off another runner just by holding a steady pace, and then on to the finishing straight. I finished well (5:35/mile) but was disappointed when I saw the finish clock, showing 37 mins. Chip time should be around 36:58.

I felt that I performed well, I just didn't strategise very well. I should have worked harder on the initial few kilometers (should've been about 10 seconds faster on the first mile alone). Finished well up the field (don't know exactly, as didn't get an SMS) but certainly one of my best finish positions for a large field race. Really impressed with how well organized the race was, given that it's probably one of the largest field 10k's in the country (after the women's mini 10k, and the Phoenix Park 10k). Not a bad run, but a lot of work to do, before I'm in with a shout of my short-term goals.

Summary: 10k in 36:59, @5:54/mile, HR=166

TheRoadRunner

Good stuff KC. Out of curiousity what is your max heart rate?

Krusty_Clown

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Good stuff KC. Out of curiousity what is your max heart rate?

Not exactly certain. Last year I hit 187 a few times at the end of races. This year the highest I've hit in races is around 183. Today I maxed out at 176, so there's definitely a bit more at the top-end I need to start tapping into. Thinking the tempo and Vo2max sessions in the marathon program will help push me into the red zone a little further. Once I get through this marathon program, I'm definitely joining a club, as I reckon I need others to push me a little more and I'm kind of hitting the wall of what I can achieve on my own. Not entirely overjoyed with today's result.

Sosa

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Not entirely overjoyed with today's result.

Story of my summer so far !
Well done anyway

BeepBeep67

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Not exactly certain. Last year I hit 187 a few times at the end of races. This year the highest I've hit in races is around 183. Today I maxed out at 176, so there's definitely a bit more at the top-end I need to start tapping into. Thinking the tempo and Vo2max sessions in the marathon program will help push me into the red zone a little further. Once I get through this marathon program, I'm definitely joining a club, as I reckon I need others to push me a little more and I'm kind of hitting the wall of what I can achieve on my own. Not entirely overjoyed with today's result.

You have my number - imagin running cross country on your doorstep

BTW - well done today, you were worried about your #10, if you discount the 'double chicking' :rolleyes: you finished 12th

Krusty_Clown

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

You have my number - imagin running cross country on your doorstep

BTW - well done today, you were worried about your #10, if you discount the 'double chicking' :rolleyes: you finished 12th

Lol. Thanks Beepbeep. That makes me feel a little better (didn't receive the results earlier). Yeah, I'll certainly join Bray Runners when I get my thumb out. Does it matter than I'm not living in Co. Wick-law?

village runner

Firmly believe your long run friday hurt you today.
Rem last year you ran a long one on hte tuesday before the frank duffy cost you an hour ??? I know you were going on hols that day.
bottom line marathon is more imortant than hte 10k. In other words dont run a long one week of frank duffy and you will see the differnce.

Krusty_Clown

village runner wrote: »

Firmly believe your long run friday hurt you today.
Rem last year you ran a long one on hte tuesday before the frank duffy cost you an hour ??? I know you were going on hols that day.
bottom line marathon is more imortant than hte 10k. In other words dont run a long one week of frank duffy and you will see the differnce.

Good point VR. Can't hope to PB everything at the same time. Doesn't stop me hoping though! Will organize my marathon schedule so I'm all set for a good frank Duffy run. Would like to nail the 60 minutes.

village runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Good point VR. Can't hope to PB everything at the same time. Doesn't stop me hoping though! Will organize my marathon schedule so I'm all set for a good frank Duffy run. Would like to nail the 60 minutes.

Reckon if long run had been wednesday and alot slower you would have ran high 35s..............
I ran a 10 miler sunday. Had ran 17 sat and 2 long runs in previous seven days too. I could have raced sunday and the best I would have ran was 63 min...........Didnt want ot risk injury so i ran 65.
you cant taper for all races as marathon would be in bother.
I wont be running any longer than 18 7 days before the 10 miler. Run fast on hte monday a massage tuesday and easy from then on.
Did I read the you had ran your highest week to date over 7 days. I rem running a 10k last yr and ran 70 in the week before the week. Didnt realise it as I ran long on hte thursday 8 days before hte race. Ran another long one 5 days out. Result I was slower in hte last two miles than i was in the marathon.
all good training and you had a good finish. will stand to you in hte 10 miler.
We are all human. Its learning form it.
sorry for rant.

TheRoadRunner

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

BTW - well done today, you were worried about your #10, if you discount the 'double chicking' :rolleyes: you finished 12th

A double chicking :eek: they are worth double points technically you were 16th by my running calculation

VR is right longer runs do mess with shorter. I seem to remember a wise man writing something similar in my log last week

Abhainn

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Not exactly certain. Last year I hit 187 a few times at the end of races. This year the highest I've hit in races is around 183. Today I maxed out at 176, so there's definitely a bit more at the top-end I need to start tapping into.

Your better than 36:59. Stale after a long week? It happens us sometimes in races.
Your should have been maxing out more at the end though.

opus

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi Opus, I'm a big fan of the progression runs, which'd be similar to the runs you've described. The thing is, I find as the mileage goes up, I end up running the faster sessions faster and the slower sessions slower, so the body can cope (the price of only finding running at middle-age). Personally, I couldn't hack running all the long and medium long runs in that manner, but I definitely think there's an advantage to finishing all of your long runs at a faster pace than the rest of the long run. You could be more resilient though. With the higher mileage P&D programs the medium long runs tend to hit and stick at around 15 miles. I can't imagine that they had a progression run in mind for a mid-week 15 mile run though, so best to take it handy enough and save the speedy miles for the sessions and the end of the long runs.

Cheers for the advice KC, think I'll take it easier on the mid-week stuff like you suggest and keep at roughly MP+20% for them as must admit I was starting to feel a bit more tired than normal.

Krusty_Clown

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

A double chicking :eek: they are worth double points technically you were 16th by my running calculation

VR is right longer runs do mess with shorter. I seem to remember a wise man writing something similar in my log last week

I feel no shame in losing to these two particular ladies (a 56 minute 10 miler and a 2:39 marathoner). Wouldn't they *cough* be close enough to your own PBs?

TheRoadRunner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I feel no shame in losing to these two particular ladies (a 56 minute 10 miler and a 2:39 marathoner). Wouldn't they *cough* be close enough to your own PBs?

a chicking is a chicking. Doesn't matter if it's Paula Radcliffe or Kathryn Thomas

shels4ever

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

a chicking is a chicking. Doesn't matter if it's Paula Radcliffe or Kathryn Thomas

You will be doing will to prevent a deca chicking in Berlin

TheRoadRunner

shels4ever wrote: »

You will be doing will to prevent a deca chicking in Berlin

I'm hoping elite women's race starts before main race then technically I'm not in the same race as them. I'm willing to toe the line with the sub elite beitches

Krusty_Clown

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I'm hoping elite women's race starts before main race then technically I'm not in the same race as them. I'm willing to toe the line with the sub elite beitches

With traditional German efficiency, everyone starts together. Prepare to be fraulein-slapped.

TheRoadRunner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

With traditional German efficiency, everyone starts together. Prepare to be fraulein-slapped.

hmm. What is the optimum period before EPO kicks in? I'm off to do some online shopping Cathal Lombard style.

Krusty_Clown

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

hmm. What is the optimum period before EPO kicks in? I'm off to do some online shopping Cathal Lombard style.

Just so you know, your new EPO-fueled target pace is 5:30/mile. You can expect to go through the first 10k in 33:53 and should hit the half way mark in around 1:11. No pressure.