Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Larry Brent

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

one second PB on the watch,

Great stuff, hitting a 10k pb in marathon training is impressive, well done.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I didn't get to complete the extra 10 miles afterwards, .......... so I'll have to pick these up tomorrow,

You know your plan and body best, but I wouldn't worry too much about this at this stage, i.e. only 2 weeks to go. The hard work is done, all about recovering, replenishing and staying fresh now. I'd just do whatever was scheduled for tomorrow and not bother trying to make up those 10 miles. If it was me an easy few miles tomorrow and I'de be ready for a taper session in a few days, do too much tomorrow and I'd carry fatigue from the race for a few days into the taper session.

Best of luck with it anyway.

theboyblunder

Another great report Krusty. Warts 'n' all. Super run too!

Krusty_Clown

Cheers Larry, sound advice. I'll forego the original plan, which was to catch up on the 17 mile long run today, and instead just run an easy 10 miles. This way I'll still get some of the training benefit of the P&D race+long run torture strategy and not impact this week's training. I've a taper session on Thursday (3x1600m @5k pace) so should be well recovered by then. Thanks.

Krusty_Clown

theboyblunder wrote: »

Another great report Krusty. Warts 'n' all. Super run too!

Thanks TBB. It certainly didn't feel super at the time. Felt like my worst race in a long, long time (Frank Duffy 2010?). In a similar vein to the FD2010, the watch gave me misinformation and it killed my determination. I think some cross-country and hill running races are required to wean off the watch dependency for a while.

Mr Slow

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

This way I'll still get some of the training benefit of the P&D race+long run torture strategy and not impact this week's training.

What's the thought process behind that startegy, I thought it had me screwed when I did it for Cork. Is it glycogen depletion or do they just have a funny sense of humour?

Krusty_Clown

Mr Slow wrote: »

What's the thought process behind that startegy, I thought it had me screwed when I did it for Cork. Is it glycogen depletion or do they just have a funny sense of humour?

I don't have the book with me, but IIRC, it's about getting a last long run on tired legs, which could be related to running very lean (as you mentioned, low glycogen). It's a really tough few days, with the long 5k intervals a few days later, and has always left me feeling a little battered and bruised. But then, it has always worked also. I think you're right. They just have a nasty sense of humour. Pre-P&D I used to look forward to taper. Now I dread it.

Mr Slow

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I don't have the book with me, but IIRC, it's about getting a last long run on tired legs, which could be related to running very lean (as you mentioned, low glycogen). It's a really tough few days, with the long 5k intervals a few days later, and has always left me feeling a little battered and bruised. But then, it has always worked also. I think you're right. They just have a nasty sense of humour. Pre-P&D I used to look forward to taper. Now I dread it.

I announce on my log I was on taper 3 weeks out from Cork, then I did those sessions the following week and almost went nuts with taper madness thinking I had put my marathon effort into that weekend :rolleyes:, but as you say it worked a treat on the day.

Abhainn

Another podium finish KC, nice one. You are in great form at the moment. Just look forward to a solid controlled race in a couple of weeks.

Krusty_Clown

Today: Easy run
S'funny how you feel totally knackered, then you go for an easy run in the sunshine and everything's right with the world. No more tiredness, no more lethargy, just feeling fresh again. Definitely hooked on those endorphins. Ran an easy 5 miles on my own and then met up with work buddy for some slower miles, so didn't notice them ticking off. This was a good compromise between doing the 17 mile long run and skipping it altogether, so happy enough to run a couple of recovery miles in the morning and take the rest of the day off and then back to the normal taper schedule. Life once more in harmony.

Summary: 12 miles in 1:27, @7:18/mile, HR=135

brownian

Right, that's got me out for a run!

[later...inspired by KC, ran my fastest ever 10 miles in training...must read this thread more regularly!]

pgmcpq

Well done on the podium finish and PB. Yes if Haile had shown up you'd be out of luck but them's the breaks. Funny how when you're in a race you're impression of how it is going can be so far from the reality despite the Garmin.

Mr Slow

Here's looking forward to when recovery pace is 7 odd:)

Krusty_Clown

Mr Slow wrote: »

Here's looking forward to when recovery pace is 7 odd:)

I said 'easy' not recovery! I usually do recovery miles at 8:00/mile+.

Mr Slow

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I said 'easy' not recovery! I usually do recovery miles at 8:00/mile+.

Maybe I'm aiming high :rolleyes:

Pronator

I'm not calling you KC anymore, your now called "PB" Another solid run Gary, well done.

Krusty_Clown

Pronator wrote: »

I'm not calling you KC anymore, your now called "PB" Another solid run Gary, well done.

and if I keep taking 00:00:00:75 (three quarters of a second) off my previous PB, there'll be many more to come.

Slogger Jogger

Very impressive KC, well done. Thats a tough 10k route. With its little hills and headwinds (which are like uphill running in a way) its far from your avg 10k route. A nice flat 10k route somewhere will be just the ticket for you once you finish off your current marathon challenge.

This race was so under the radar its unbelievable. Parnell AC aren't quite the Internet friendly club so the word doesn't get around. I commute this route every day and only knew a race was happening when on Saturday I saw Bill Porter putting the km signs up. Would have tried to line up if I had reasonable notice.

Krusty_Clown

To be honest Mick, I'm not sure they could cope with many more than 45 runners! The race probably has more to do with preserving history than it does in a practical competitive race. Still, at €5, it was great value for a 10k race with all the tea, sandwiches and cake you could eat, and more medals than a well-heeled rapper. I only heard about it two weeks ago from a Bray Runners circular e-mail.

average_runner

Hi Krusty;

Do you recommend doing the 10k race in the first week of taper that P&D schedules? Should you go all out in this 10K?


Thanks

Krusty_Clown

average_runner wrote: »

Hi Krusty;

Do you recommend doing the 10k race in the first week of taper that P&D schedules? Should you go all out in this 10K?
Thanks

Hi average_runner, I can really only answer for myself. In my case, I find that giving it socks is the way to go. The P&D programs (while they may not be as high intensity/mileage as Daniels etc) are advanced programs designed to strengthen the legs, body and mind and these sessions are designed to do just that. There is no doubt that a 8-10k race followed by a long run is a tough start to your taper, but it's all about the final sharpening before race day. Taper isn't a lull before the big race, it's a fine tuning. Easing up on the miles, while keeping (or as in P&D increasing) the intensity. In an orchestra it would be the crescendo before the curtain closer(ok I'll shut-up now!).

Now, the balancing argument. As Larry Brent said ^up there^ it's all about knowing your body. If it takes you a while to recover from a 10k, then running at full intensity is going to be counter-productive, as you won't get sufficient recovery or hit the all-important taper session a few days later (which is a very tough 3 x 1mile @5k pace). There's no point nailing a really good 10k, if you're not going to make the start line for the marathon. If you're injury prone, it may be better to air on the side of tempo rather than race, and run the long run on the grass at low intensity the following day. That's my 2c. Plenty better runners who may have a completely different view.

Krusty_Clown

Morning: 5 mile recovery with 6 x strides
Eyes were heavier than the legs this morning, and it was a struggle to get out of bed to put on the running gear, despite the rather sociable 7:30am start. A beautiful morning helped with the motivation though, and when I got down to the bottom of the park, the views across Dublin Bay were amazing. Managed to get in a few strides too. I cut the mileage back from the planned 8 miles, because of the additional mileage yesterday. Just one tough run this week, and it's all plain sailing from that point onwards.

Summary: 5 miles in 38:48, @7:46/mile, HR=126

Krusty_Clown

Lunch: 4.5 recovery miles
Beautiful day, so it was a pleasure to hit the park with work buddy with singlet and sunglasses. Work buddy was a little worse for wear, so this was a slow very easy affair (well-timed after RacoonQueen's evil but effective ministrations yesterday). After 4.5 miles of very easy running, my legs didn't know what was going on. 'You're stopping? Already? But we haven't even started!', they seemed to scream silently. 'Shut up, or I'll take you back to RaccoonQueen'. That shut them up.

10 days until Chicago. Current weather: 12-17'C
Summary: 4.5 miles in 37 mins, @8:14/mile, HR=125

brownian

Ah, joy of taper, eh? I envy you - still a few tough weeks ahead for the DCM heads.

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

Ah, joy of taper, eh? I envy you - still a few tough weeks ahead for the DCM heads.

You won't be envying me tomorrow! Toughest session in the good book.

brownian

I don't really get this - surely the taper is a taper (shaped like a wedge, on an effort graph) not a bottle opener (spike, gasp, wedge) ? I note your post above about "final sharpening", though...I'll have to go back to the Word of P&D and see if I should be self-flagellating, instead of meeting strange men for long slow assignations in the Park.

Because you've nothing better to do than give me advice, here's a question - do I join ecoli and his group for a sub-3 pyramid session in the park or do I run 20 at a slightly faster pace myself? ecoli's session will be more sociable, but the fast miles will be 6:52, while PMP for me is about 6:40. It'll be my second-last or third-last long hard session. Put another way - is that sort of session hard enough for the main weekend event, or should I be pigging into PMP pace?

Krusty_Clown

brownian wrote: »

I don't really get this - surely the taper is a taper (shaped like a wedge, on an effort graph) not a bottle opener (spike, gasp, wedge) ? I note your post above about "final sharpening", though...I'll have to go back to the Word of P&D and see if I should be self-flagellating, instead of meeting strange men for long slow assignations in the Park.

Because you've nothing better to do than give me advice, here's a question - do I join ecoli and his group for a sub-3 pyramid session in the park or do I run 20 at a slightly faster pace myself? ecoli's session will be more sociable, but the fast miles will be 6:52, while PMP for me is about 6:40. It'll be my second-last or third-last long hard session. Put another way - is that sort of session hard enough for the main weekend event, or should I be pigging into PMP pace?

No reason you can't join ecoli's session, and split off for some faster miles towards the end of the work-out (if the structure of the session is suitable). Best of both worlds: sociable and intensive! How often have you been running miles at 6:40/mile?

Who ever said taper was all about rest and recovery? If you just drop the mileage, you risk getting stale. Or worse... Bored..

Krusty_Clown

Nice surprise in the post today. A handy cheque from the lovely folks at the Lakes 10k for my M35 category win! Who knew that running 36 minute 10ks could be so lucrative?! My first cash prize. Happy out.

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

My first cash prize.

Was it for cash reward that Liddell and Abrahams sought their chariot of fire?; did Jesse Owens outrace the Third Reich in quest of riches?; was Jonathan Edwards compelled to compete on the Sabbath for the glory of Mammon? A pox on your professional status, Sir, may you and Rihanna be cursed to an eternity of fornicating amidst undressed fields and riches.

signed,

An Amateur

brownian

donothoponpop wrote: »

Was it for cash reward that Liddell and Abrahams sought their chariot of fire?; did Jesse Owens outrace the Third Reich in quest of riches?; was Jonathan Edwards compelled to compete on the Sabbath for the glory of Mammon? A pox on your professional status, Sir, may you and Rihanna be cursed to an eternity of fornicating amidst undressed fields and riches.

signed,

An Amateur

And the curse part of being stuck f-ing with Rihanna in a bog full of bling is where? Krusty's in funds - pints are on him

BeepBeep67

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Nice surprise in the post today. A handy cheque from the lovely folks at the Lakes 10k for my M35 category win! Who knew that running 36 minute 10ks could be so lucrative?! My first cash prize. Happy out.

Just in time to declare it before the end of Oct :rolleyes: