Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Krusty_Clown

jfh wrote: »

Hi Krusty,
would you mind detailing the core exercise that you do, i'm training for a marathon myself and would like to improve core strength
thanks

Sure: I've been doing these core excercises twice a week, along with some weights described in a Hal Higdon weights program here (though I use dumbells instead of the prescribed soup cans!). Week 1, I start with 15 reps and increase the number of reps by 1 each week (core and weights). In the weights program, I've been skipping the lunge, as I've found that it's detrimental to my sensitive knee. Also the crunch is covered in the core stuff, so I don't do that as part of the weights either. One other day a week (or more) I've been doing RacoonQueen's 5 minute plank. I used to find it tough, but I find it quite manageable these days. I'll probably swap this out for the P&D core strength advanced exercises though, as I reckon the variety will do me some good, but the 5 minute pllank is a handy one, as all you need is 6 minutes and a stop-watch.

I've actually been doing some of these sessions in the evening after long hard runs, as I find that the stretching/resistance is aiding my recovery. Hard to work up the enthusiasm sometimes though!

jfh

thanks for such a thorough answer. didnt expect that. i've got advanced marathoning so have a few core exercises, just dragged it out tonight and went through some moves. hadnt heard of the six minute plank, a new one for me. its something i need to improve on. best of luck with the training.

dna_leri

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

In the weights program, I've been skipping the lunge, as I've found that it's detrimental to my sensitive knee.

Interesting you find the lunge bad for your knee. Have you tried doing them without weights first, or checking your form in a mirror:

Keep the front knee behind the toes and be sure to lower straight down rather than forward.

After my knee surgery 18 months ago, I found lunges a great part of my rehab, I now incorporate a lunge matrix as part of my warm-up routine.

Krusty_Clown

dna_leri wrote: »

Interesting you find the lunge bad for your knee.

It's more that I try to avoid putting any additional stress on my knee, though I'm pretty sure my form when doing the lunge is pretty poor.

dna_leri wrote: »

I now incorporate a lunge matrix as part of my warm-up routine.

Cool, I'll give that a go, though I'm not sure how much more time I have in my life for more core exercises/stretching! I'm up at around 10 hours per week of running/exercises, and I've another 15 miles per week to add to the program (day 2 and I'm whingeing already!).

Last night: P&D's advanced core workout. This one's pretty straightforward in comparison to the core workout I normally do, but does target some different muscles, so I might include it once a week instead of the 5 minute plank.

Krusty_Clown

Tuesday: 8 mile run with 10x100m strides
One of those chore-like runs, where you just want to be back at your desk plugging away, instead of trundling into a strong wind. Not sure why I wasn't enamoured with this run, it just didn't do anything for me. Every trudging step was a grind.
Summary: 8 miles in 57 mins, @7:12/mile

Krusty_Clown

Wednesday: 12 Mile medium long run
Some ill-timed meetings kept me from getting this run ticked off at lunch-time, but given the previous day's miserable run and a very frustrating day in work, that was probably not such a bad thing. Instead, I managed to get home reasonably early, and headed out on a route that greatly resembles a Monopoly board: Shankill, Sallynoggin, Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey, Killiney then back to Shankill. As each mile ticked off, the run prised a finger from my grip on the day's frustrations, and by the time I hit Killiney Hill, all was good with the world once again and I found myself tacking on some extra climb on Killiney Hill to prolong the run.

Summary: 12.45 miles in 1:31, @7:21/mile

Krusty_Clown

Wednesday night: 17 x 15 core strength and 17 x 2 x 4 weights


Thursday morning: 6 mile recovery run
With a planned sports massage at lunchtime to treat my mileage-heavy muscles, I had to get out early for my recovery run, so was out the door by 8am (early for some) and could still feel the previous evening's miles in my weary muscles, so it was a bit of a struggle getting around the 6 mile loop. Followed up by a sports massage that has me feeling positively limber by comparison to this morning.

Summary: 6 miles in 48 mins, @7:50/mile

Abhainn

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Wednesday: 12 Mile medium long run
Some ill-timed meetings kept me from getting this run ticked off at lunch-time, but given the previous day's miserable run and a very frustrating day in work, that was probably not such a bad thing. Instead, I managed to get home reasonably early, and headed out on a route that greatly resembles a Monopoly board: Shankill, Sallynoggin, Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey, Killiney then back to Shankill. As each mile ticked off, the run prised a finger from my grip on the day's frustrations, and by the time I hit Killiney Hill, all was good with the world once again and I found myself tacking on some extra climb on Killiney Hill to prolong the run.

Summary: 12.45 miles in 1:31, @7:21/mile

I felt your frustration today also. Nothing like a good run to clear your head

Krusty_Clown

Friday: 11 Mile very, very, easy run
Easy 5 miles around Clondalkin Village, before meeting up with Keith123 for an even easier 5 miles, followed by a final mile around the new cycling track in Corkagh Park (lovely new tarmac, around 1.1 miles following all the turns). I probably should have run the easy miles first and the slightly faster miles afterwards, but it's just so good to have company, when you're averaging 70+ miles per week (for the next 13 weeks), that you can put up with a bit of pace messing around.

Summary: 11 miles in 1:25, @7:37/mile.

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Summary: 11 miles in 1:25, @7:37/mile.

Always with the fast finish at the end!:D

C'mere, do you benefit from this? I was brought up to believe your last couple of k should be warm-down, but you seem to speed up for a final flurry before you reach home. It works for you alright, any idea why? Lots and lots of stretching when you're finished?

Krusty_Clown

Today: 6 mile recovery run
Right, when your easy run is slower than your recovery run, you know you got your priorities wrong. Wearing the spikes on the grass and with the subconscious kicking in, you don't even notice the pace shifting, but as long as it feels like you're floating above the grass, it doesn't really matter. This week has been all about tomorrow's PMP run anyway. More nervous about this, than I am about any recent races. Hopefully the wind plays ball.

Flying out to Bulgaria early Monday morning for four days (work), so sticking to the marathon plan is going to be a huge ask, even with juggling the schedule around. I'll do my best, but it's definitely no guarantee. Work, sadly, has to come first.

Followed up with 17 x 15 core strength exercises, and 17 x 2 x 4 weights.

Summary: 6 miles in 45 mins, @7:33/mile

Krusty_Clown

donothoponpop wrote: »

Always with the fast finish at the end!:D

C'mere, do you benefit from this? I was brought up to believe your last couple of k should be warm-down, but you seem to speed up for a final flurry before you reach home. It works for you alright, any idea why? Lots and lots of stretching when you're finished?

There's so much uncertainty for me in running. Which training plan to follow? How many miles per week should I run? How fast should I run them? Hills or no hills? Gels and water or run lean? Actual race pace or planned race pace? There's one absolute though; as I go through a race, effort levels go up. Perceived effort may not noticeably go up, but actual effort level does. Exhibit A, B, C and D.

If you wanted to train for a hill race, you'd go to the hills. Cross-country? A field. Track race? You'd find a fairy fort. Simulation. If your race effort is going to be greater towards the end? Crank it up..

Krusty_Clown

Today: 17 miles with 8 miles @PMP

...or the day I learnt to respect the treadmill. I knew that all my hopes that the wind would subside were dashed, when I had to drop the kids off to their respective sporting events at 9am this morning and the car was being blown from lane to lane. I put off the run as long as I could, but eventually launched myself into the inevitable. Started with a 6 mile uphill slog, taking on a gel after 4 miles in prep for the pmp miles. At Mile 6.5 I stopped at a shop for a bottle of water, but regretfully on a whim, picked up a bottle of Gatorade instead, as it's the drink of choice during the Boston marathon. Went down fine, but I'd regret it later!

Started the pmp miles, and with the wind behind me and a gentle downhill at the start, they felt nice and easy, and my average pace crept down to 6:03/mile. the fun couldn't last though and with the turn up to Leopardstown, I faced into a really tough wind, with an uphill climb. The next two miles were a real slog, and my average pace dropped to 6:15/mile, so I lost a minute or so into the harsh wind. Back on level/downhill ground, I had to make up the previous lost time so had to pick up the pace to finish on target. It was a tough grind, but I got through it, finishing the 8 pmp miles in 49:10, @6:09/mile (85m drop). A gentle hill climb should've seen me home, but I had to pull-up with stomach cramps. Not used to sugar/food on my long runs, the gel+sports drink combo had me in ribbons. Lesson learned.

Plan for tomorrow is 6 + 4 mile recovery, but with 8 hours of flights to Bulgaria (starting at 5am), I'm not sure I'll get the double recovery run done, so I'm trying to muster a bit of motivation to go out again later this evening for 4 recovery miles. May not happen!

Summary: 17.15 miles in 1:58, @6:51/mile, HR=144

Krusty_Clown

Plus tomorrow's 4 mile recovery run. Was a lot easier than I was expecting. Takes the pressure off for tomorrow anyway.
Summary: 4 miles in 30 mins, @7:28/mile, HR=129

Krusty_Clown

Today: 6 Mile recovery run
Well, as predicted, it was getting dark by the time we got to Bulgaria, and the roads are covered in ice and snow. In an alien city (with some known rough spots) an outdoor run was out of the question, so I set myself the task: could I overcome my hatred of tread-mills? Sadly, I failed miserably and my abhorrence of these mechanical demons has only increased. Two treadmills in the hotel, both with over-hanging TVs. Hmm.. Maybe this will help. Sadly, working remote controls were not to be found. So, I figured I'd start with the one facing the window, so I could look out at the passing pedestrians, and soak up some local Sofian culture. After 20 minutes, I was counting people entering and leaving one of the nearby schools. After 25 minutes, I couldn't take it any more. I increased the pace from recovery, to an easy 14 km/hour. The machine started to smoke, the screen crackled, and died. Strike 1 for the humans!

Over to the other machine for the remaining 5k. Nothing to do but stare at the little red dot on the TV screen and try not to look at the distance covered, crawling, so slowly.. tick... tick... tick.... I've decided that I hate running on treadmills more than I hate 'not running'. This could be a problem, as I have three more days here. I'm actually contemplating not running at all. Or else I'll head outside. I'm a little bit scared.

Summary: 10k in two treadmills, at some pace.

Peckham

You've run in Bray. Surely you can handle dodgy parts of Sofia. ;-)

Patrick_K

Sofia isn't great is it Krusty?
I remember driving through it a few years ago in a fancy new (rental) car and being stared at like I was in the pope-mobile.
I'm not sure if they're ready for a lycra clad man yet ....

T runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Today: 6 Mile recovery run
Well, as predicted, it was getting dark by the time we got to Bulgaria, and the roads are covered in ice and snow. In an alien city (with some known rough spots) an outdoor run was out of the question, so I set myself the task: could I overcome my hatred of tread-mills? Sadly, I failed miserably and my abhorrence of these mechanical demons has only increased. Two treadmills in the hotel, both with over-hanging TVs. Hmm.. Maybe this will help. Sadly, working remote controls were not to be found. So, I figured I'd start with the one facing the window, so I could look out at the passing pedestrians, and soak up some local Sofian culture. After 20 minutes, I was counting people entering and leaving one of the nearby schools. After 25 minutes, I couldn't take it any more. I increased the pace from recovery, to an easy 14 km/hour. The machine started to smoke, the screen crackled, and died. Strike 1 for the humans!

Over to the other machine for the remaining 5k. Nothing to do but stare at the little red dot on the TV screen and try not to look at the distance covered, crawling, so slowly.. tick... tick... tick.... I've decided that I hate running on treadmills more than I hate 'not running'. This could be a problem, as I have three more days here. I'm actually contemplating not running at all. Or else I'll head outside. I'm a little bit scared.

Summary: 10k in two treadmills, at some pace.

Hi Krusty

Recovery effort on them is a killer. You can actually run easy effort on them with a fast cadence relative to outdoors. The speed should force you to run in good form so i usually have it ticking over and keep incrementing by .1k as im getting too comfortable.

You can also mess around with incline. Add 1% per min for 7-8 mins; run easy again for 3 mins repeat etc. Good tempo hill session. Again forces you to run with good form.

Id always do at least an easy fartlek that forces concentartion. Otherwise its too hard.

A continous fast tempo/progression session is good. IMO They are made for sessions because you can control the session exactly. Recovery pace is difficult waiting for time to pass.

Also you can do a progression run with 4 fractions. WU then 5-9 mins per fraction. increment pace each fraction. The last should be very fast but sustaineable. Its good because it forces you to thinik about the running and you actually look forward to teh increase in pace, odd as that sounds.

ChickenBalls

I wonder if the treadmill your using over there is this one

RacoonQueen

Best thing to do getting on a treadmill is have a workout. I used to do pyramids on them pushing up the pace by .5 kph every 2 minutes or so till I got to breaking point, then back down again. Horrible machines - did 10 miles on one during the snow of 2010. Awful experience.

Krusty_Clown

Today: 4 Mile Easy run
Up till 2am last night (working, not boozing!) and a dicky tummy, and I wasn't keen on heading for a run, but managed to crawl out of bed at 8am (that's 6am Irish time Peckham!) and hit the street. Only had a short amount of time before meeting some new work customers, so I figured I could afford 4 miles, before having to get ready for work. Still no idea of the layout of Sofia (Bulgaria), so I figured I'd run in a straight line, and turn back after two miles. Easier said than done. It was around 0'C, but felt lovely and cool. Perfect running temperatures, but everyone was looking at me like I was a lunatic (no lycra, PK, but short-shorts ). Needless to say, I didn't encounter any other runners on my plod. The paths are in a bad state of disrepair (probably caused by annual extremes in temperature (-15'C - 40'C), so running is pretty treacherous. Throw in the sleet, ice, snow and gutter water, in equal measure with dog poop, and I was wondering if I should make a return to the dreadmill. I got about 1.8 miles from the hotel, before the path turned to complete ice, and I could go no further. So I retraced my steps, and added another loop in a nearby park, that was only slightly less treacherous before heading back to get ready for work. I was glad that it meant I'd have four miles less to do on the dreadmill. A great day in work, with a really nice bunch of people, but I got back to the hotel at 11:30pm and the fitness centre was closed (TF!), so no more running for me. So I have a debt of 6 miles for the week so far. The way things are going, I might be doing back to back 20 milers this weekend. Hopefully get out early tomorrow, and cover more miles than today, but I have to find a better route to run.

Summary: 4.19 miles in 33:47, @8:04/mile, HR=~130

Mr Slow

What's your resting HR?

Krusty_Clown

Mr Slow wrote: »

What's your resting HR?

No idea (the Garmin doesn't really allow you to measure it, as the HRM is basically sh1te). Last time I checked, it was around 45 bpm, but that was using a LIDL wrist-based HRM, so could be completely wrong!

RacoonQueen

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

No idea (the Garmin doesn't really allow you to measure it, as the HRM is basically sh1te). Last time I checked, it was around 45 bpm, but that was using a LIDL wrist-based HRM, so could be completely wrong!

There's an app for the iphone(which I think you have, if not ignore my ramblings) that measures it, I've compared it to a hospital pulse oximeter and it's fairly accurate. Surprisingly. Was only off by a beat or two - on the 3gs not sure if it's more accurate on the 4/4S.

Edit: http://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/instant-heart-rate-free/id409625068?mt=8

Dory Dory

I think I might have to resort to running up and down the halls and stairways. :eek:

Mr Slow

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

No idea (the Garmin doesn't really allow you to measure it, as the HRM is basically sh1te). Last time I checked, it was around 45 bpm, but that was using a LIDL wrist-based HRM, so could be completely wrong!

Merci Monsieur!

brownian

Our man in Sofia says

In this weather conditions there’s not a suitable place except a stadium.
1) I think the stadium of the sports academy in Studentski grad is a good one with good surface and is open for citizens, but I don’t know if it’s cleaned now and you know running such a long distance on a stadium (400m lap) is quite boring.

2) I’ve trained in the Borisovata gradina (the big park where the national stadium is situated) during the winter but your friend has to do in snowy conditions. The good think there is that he can do laps of around 3km long which is good.

3) I also would suggest running on the road from Dragalevtci to Aleco hut because of the high altitude which will give him a good advantage, but also it will be fully snow covered now. Early in the morning there are no cars passing there. I’ve done it before and it’s OK.

Hope this is of some use. Other Sofians have just said "what?!?! - look out the window!" :pac:

Krusty_Clown

Thanks for that.. Will be helpful for my next trip.. They've had about a foot of snow, in the last 24 hours, so running outside has been impossible (no very cold weather gear, and no shoe grips/nails!).

Yesterday I managed to get my allocated miles done (treadmill, in two sessions, following T-runners increase the pace every minute strategy to stave away the boredom) but today was a disaster. Headed down to the treadmill, and the mostly working treadmill was in use. Hopped on the 'not mostly working treadmill' and managed 0.85kms, before it over-heated and crashed. Managed to finish out the km (whoop!), before it crashed again and I threw in the towel. I suppose this is exactly why I started my training plan a week early. I just didn't expect to have to use up my spare week so soon.


Sofia has been 'interesting', but I can't wait to get home (if I can get home! Massive delays in the airport). Wish me luck..

BTW: Resting HR on RQ's app is 42/43, so I'm not sure how accurate it is..

Mr Slow

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

BTW: Resting HR on RQ's app is 42/43, so I'm not sure how accurate it is..

Mine is 39, I'd have thought yours would have been 12?

Krusty_Clown

Dory Dory wrote: »

I think I might have to resort to running up and down the halls and stairways. :eek:

Actually, I was thinking of you guys (and your Canadian cousins up 'norf) as I pounded every stride on the treadmill. We're very lucky over here with our mild climate. If I had to go through what you guys do every winter, I don't think I'd be near the runner I am today. Chapeau, my cold weather brethren, you are indeed stronger than I.