Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

brownian

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Today: 5 Hellish miles
If I had a time machine, I wouldn't go back and kill Hitler. I wouldn't buy shares in Apple. I wouldn't even wind the dial all the way back and watch the creation of the universe. Instead I would permanently erase those 5 recovery miles from my memory. The worst weather I can remember for a long, long, time. I hate treadmills, but I would have snatched at one greedily after the first mile. Horrifically wet, horribly cold, gale-force winds lashing freezing ice-drop at you causing a permanent ice-cream head-ache, while doing loops of a muddy field.

If you haven't done your run today... Find a treadmill. Find an indoor track. Go swimming instead. Hell, go to the pub instead. It's no fun out there.
Summary: 5 awful miles.

Ye're a hard man KC. Sitting at my nice warm computer listening to the rain/ice mix hopping off the windows, I'd not be going out in that sh1te.

Savage mile run there - nice going.

Pronator

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Today: 5 Hellish miles
If I had a time machine, I wouldn't go back and kill Hitler. I wouldn't buy shares in Apple. I wouldn't even wind the dial all the way back and watch the creation of the universe. Instead I would permanently erase those 5 recovery miles from my memory. The worst weather I can remember for a long, long, time. I hate treadmills, but I would have snatched at one greedily after the first mile. Horrifically wet, horribly cold, gale-force winds lashing freezing ice-drop at you causing a permanent ice-cream head-ache, while doing loops of a muddy field.

If you haven't done your run today... Find a treadmill. Find an indoor track. Go swimming instead. Hell, go to the pub instead. It's no fun out there.
Summary: 5 awful miles.

Snap! I was up around leopardstown race course today. I lost the feeling in my face and hands................super stuff last night. Another good confidence builder.

Krusty_Clown

Pronator wrote: »

Snap! I was up around leopardstown race course today.

So did you head in and go for a run around the grounds? I was put off by the large sign that said 'Beware of landmines. All joggers will be shot on sight'.

Beef

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Today: 5 Hellish miles
If I had a time machine, I wouldn't go back and kill Hitler. I wouldn't buy shares in Apple. I wouldn't even wind the dial all the way back and watch the creation of the universe. Instead I would permanently erase those 5 recovery miles from my memory. The worst weather I can remember for a long, long, time. I hate treadmills, but I would have snatched at one greedily after the first mile. Horrifically wet, horribly cold, gale-force winds lashing freezing ice-drop at you causing a permanent ice-cream head-ache, while doing loops of a muddy field.

If you haven't done your run today... Find a treadmill. Find an indoor track. Go swimming instead. Hell, go to the pub instead. It's no fun out there.
Summary: 5 awful miles.

I hear you - I went out for 4 miles and ran back home with my tail between my legs, only completing 2.5. I have never felt cold like it on my face. As you said - brain freeze feeling when running into that easterly wind. At least I wasn't on a muddy field, just puddle dodging.

blockic

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

If you haven't done your run today... Find a treadmill. Find an indoor track. Go swimming instead. Hell, go to the pub instead. It's no fun out there.
Summary: 5 awful miles.

Wish I had not read this before I'm just about to head out on a 12 miler!!

Krusty_Clown

blockic wrote: »

Wish I had not read this before I'm just about to head out on a 12 miler!!

Ahhh that's ok; that was yesterday. Today looks a million times better.

Think I'll be hitting the treadmill for some tempo miles!

blockic

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Ahhh that's ok; that was yesterday.

claralara

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hmm... How to describe roads (hills) using onomatopoeic adjectives? Let's see: we have 'crash', 'thump', 'whimper', 'squeek', and 'sploosh'.
Newtownpark Avenue is less of a 'crash' and more of a 'whimper', while Heartbreak Hill, coming quite late in the race, is a bit of a 'thump, thump' (unless it's raining, in which case it'll be more a 'squeek, squeek'. In the unlikely event that it's very hot out there, remember to grab lots of wet sponges, and 'sploosh' them on the back of your neck. I was never very good at onomatopoeic description.

I'd imagine that the two hills are pretty similar. My abiding memory is one of shock, horror, denial, dejection and hopelessness, but on that day, we were all just victims of circumstance. Heartbreak Hill is no monster. It's the kind of hill we run every day and watch our heart rate rise by a couple of blips and don't give it a significant moment's thought. I reckon it has earned its moniker from all those inexperienced runners who have drifted into a false sense of invincibility, having run beyond their means over the largely downhill first 15 miles, only to come crashing back to earth on the first testing stretch. At marathon pace, it will be tough, but.... You have to keep this at the forefront of your mind: once you crest the hill, it's all downhill to the finish. A beautiful, restful, triumphant, descent to the finish line. And beer... Lashings and lashings of beer.

A belated thank you for this. Your reply had me take on an LSR of death last Saturday... 20 miles in the Dublin mountains with an elevation gain of 1,500+ft. All I can say is that if that didn't prepare me (at least mentally) then I might as well call it quits now!!

claralara

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Today: 5 Hellish miles
If I had a time machine, I wouldn't go back and kill Hitler. I wouldn't buy shares in Apple. I wouldn't even wind the dial all the way back and watch the creation of the universe. Instead I would permanently erase those 5 recovery miles from my memory. The worst weather I can remember for a long, long, time. I hate treadmills, but I would have snatched at one greedily after the first mile. Horrifically wet, horribly cold, gale-force winds lashing freezing ice-drop at you causing a permanent ice-cream head-ache, while doing loops of a muddy field.

If you haven't done your run today... Find a treadmill. Find an indoor track. Go swimming instead. Hell, go to the pub instead. It's no fun out there.
Summary: 5 awful miles.

And this ^^ Imagine the trauma when I realised the sicko TRR had 12 miles w/10 PMP on the plan for yesterday.... my route: the south Dublin coast road (out and back)this - puke-tastic!!

Thank god I'm carrying a few more lbs than I'd like or I'd be swimming with the fishies now!!

Krusty_Clown

Friday: 13 miles easy
Despite the race on Monday (90% effort) and middle distance sprint race on Wednesday, I had foolishly convinced myself that I needed some further quality work on Friday (even with a sizable session on Sunday). Thankfully wisdom weather prevailed. With the manic traffic jams that were circling my house, I decided to leave the bike at work and run home, taking in six tempo miles on the cinder track on the way. Thankfully, when I arrived down there, the entire track was under around 10 inches of rain-water. It was only at that point that I came to terms with the fact that it was unnecessary and possibly detrimental. Having relieved myself of the pressure of a quality session, I felt like I was on the hop from school. I was free to do whatever I wanted and I wanted to head to the top of Killiney Hill and check out the crazy weather. I didn't really know how to get to Killiney Hill from Cabinteely, but was in no hurry.

The uphill climb to Killiney Hill was comfortable enough, but arriving at the top was a real shock. I expected to face into a hurricane, as the wind was coming in off the sea, but it was beautifully calm and quiet, with amazing night-lit views over Wicklow and South Dublin as far as Howth. Tried to come down off the other side of the hill, but it was pitch black and I had no idea where I was going and I seemed to be heading down a muddy trail, so I retracted my steps to the top and took the path back. At this stage, the traffic and floods had abated, so I headed back to work to pick up my bike, having completed a cold, wet and absolutely wonderful 13 miles. Mitching off marathon training is great!

Summary: 13 miles in 1:39, @7:35/mile, HR=~120

KielyUnusual

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Friday: I retracted my steps to the top and took the path back.

......do they still count towards your weekly mileage?:D

Krusty_Clown

Saturday: 5 easy/recovery miles
Big session planned for Sunday, so just 5 miles on the grass in the spikes, with some strides to get the legs ready. Strangely tired and dehydrated afterwards, so coupled with some stomach issues the previous day, figured I had picked up a mini-bug, but ate and drank (water) voraciously for the day, and everything seems better today.
Summary: 5 miles in 37 mins, @7:37/mile

Krusty_Clown

KielyUnusual wrote: »

......do they still count towards your weekly mileage?:D

Absolutely! (unless you're running backwards, in which case you are undoing your earlier miles).

Krusty_Clown

Sunday: JDA 2 x (4 x 1 Mile @Tempo) with 10 miles easy

This is a long hard session, made slightly longer and slightly harder by the fact that I don't live beside the track, which adds another mile to the 22 miles on paper. I seem to have skipped this one last time out, in favour of the Kilomarathon. I couldn't remember doing this session before and it's just not the kind of session your forget in a hurry.

Warm-up: 3 miles @7:08
4 x 1,600m (with 1 min rest): 5:32/5:37/5:38/5:43 (HR=153)
10 miles easy in 1:13, @7:18/mile
4 x 1,600m (with 1 min rest): 5:44/5:45/5:48/5:47 (HR=156)
Warm-down: 2.6 miles @7:31

It was really windy on the track and I struggled on the the first bend on each lap, but got it all back on the opposite side of the track. The first set of reps were comfortable enough (as usual starting out too fast), but with a long session like this, going too fast gets punished, so I slowed them down and was happy enough heading into the 10 mile easy run. I headed along the coast, enjoying the crashing waves, until I had done 5 miles and was almost in Bray (only 400m from home, it was hard not to sneak back!) before retracing my steps and heading back to the cinder track. With 17 miles showing on the watch, these reps were understandably a lot tougher, particularly on the same windy bend (where I stumbled in the wind a few times) but still managed to get em done. The last one was particularly hard, but at this stage that's almost a cliche. An easy 2.6 miles took me home again, and arriving back in the house, I actually felt pretty good.

Summary: ~24 miles, in ~2:39, @~6:39/mile, HR=~145 (not including the 8 mins of recoveries)

RunningKing

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sunday: JDA 2 x (4 x 1 Mile @Tempo) with 10 miles easy

This is a long hard session, made slightly longer and slightly harder by the fact that I don't live beside the track, which adds another mile to the 22 miles on paper. I seem to have skipped this one last time out, in favour of the Kilomarathon. I couldn't remember doing this session before and it's just not the kind of session your forget in a hurry.

Warm-up: 3 miles @7:08
4 x 1,600m (with 1 min rest): 5:32/5:37/5:38/5:43 (HR=153)
10 miles easy in 1:13, @7:18/mile
4 x 1,600m (with 1 min rest): 5:44/5:45/5:48/5:47 (HR=156)
Warm-down: 2.6 miles @7:31

Right now, I'm unsure what marathon plan to follow for DCM, but after reading that, I'm leaning toward P&D!

Peckham

Great session. Remember doing similar, less extreme, ones for Boston. Reminds me to review those sessions for this cycle.

Abhainn

Some session.
You should have joined Pronator and I today in then Wicklow half - seems easier than that and you could have shared time at the front into the wind;)

Krusty_Clown

Abhainn wrote: »

Some session.
You should have joined Pronator and I today in then Wicklow half - seems easier than that and you could have shared time at the front into the wind;)

Sure there's no wind shelter behind ye two greyhounds and then we'd have the problem of how to split a 'two month gym membership' three ways.

Krusty_Clown

RunningKing wrote: »

Right now, I'm unsure what marathon plan to follow for DCM, but after reading that, I'm leaning toward P&D!

No doubt, it's a tough session, but it's a progressive plan, so you'll have done some similar sessions in the build-up to this one. Having done both plans at least a couple of times, there are advantages to both. If you're still relatively new to marathon running (first couple of marathons) P&D is great as it gives you a day by day schedule, complete with pace or HR targets. Daniels by contrast has a lot more flexibility, as it has two sessions per week, and you fill in the rest of the miles when it suits. Daniels (Plan A) always seems more endurance focused to me (with it's long run+tempo bias), while P&D seems to have more speed development (5k and tempo pace).

RunningKing

Cheers KC, as always, appreciate the advice.

average_runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

No doubt, it's a tough session, but it's a progressive plan, so you'll have done some similar sessions in the build-up to this one. Having done both plans at least a couple of times, there are advantages to both. If you're still relatively new to marathon running (first couple of marathons) P&D is great as it gives you a day by day schedule, complete with pace or HR targets. Daniels by contrast has a lot more flexibility, as it has two sessions per week, and you fill in the rest of the miles when it suits. Daniels (Plan A) always seems more endurance focused to me (with it's long run+tempo bias), while P&D seems to have more speed development (5k and tempo pace).

Daniels plan doesn't always have a long run as a key workout, would you always do a long run if not a part of the Q sessions?

village runner

Your putting in some work. You will get your rewards. London is place to do it. It's a negative split course. 2nd half is easier so don't be greedy early. Haven't ran in 11 days myself with back pain. Looks like I will be jogging around. I did too much to quick but I had to risk it. Hope to help a Mate get very close to 3. Need to shift a few ibs before I go on a family holiday nxt week to have a chance. Reckon after Ballycotton and good training half 2.40 is firmly in your sights.

Krusty_Clown

average_runner wrote: »

Daniels plan doesn't always have a long run as a key workout, would you always do a long run if not a part of the Q sessions?

I guess the answer is that you can do whatever the hell you like! With Plan A, you determine your maximum mileage and get your weekly mileage targets as a % of your maximum mileage. So if you have a perceived endurance weakness and neither of the quality sessions is a long run, you can spend your mileage budget on a long easy run. I tend to use the plan as a rough template and am happy to substitute one of the weekly quality sessions for something that it more closely targeted to a goal (e.g. speed, endurance or speed+endurance). I don't know that I'd be too keen to do two quality sessions and a long run in the same week though. I also only plan what I will do a week in advance, so that I have an idea what shape I'm in and what I can realistically achieve in that week. I think you need to adapt the plans to suit your specific needs, to get the most out of your marathon training.

Krusty_Clown

Monday: 5 mile recovery run + 2.5 hours rock climbing
Tuesday: 6 mile easy loop + P&D core

Wednesday: JD Plan A: 1 hour easy + 6 x 1 Mile @Tempo + 3 miles easy
A little easier than some of the most recent sessions, which suits me fine with a tough one coming up at the weekend. Plenty of snow, but thankfully, more of an irritation, landing in my eyes, rather than the ground. First couple of miles were recovery pace, as I was running with Keith, who is on the road to recovery, before splitting off in separate directions and picking up the pace. Had planned to arrive at the cinder track after an hour of running, but got a little dis-oriented (in some of the neighborhoods I grew up in!) so had to pick up the pace a little, as I had a work meeting back in the office two hours after I set off. Arrived at the track after 58 mins, and used the last couple of minutes to get ready for the intervals. Must have looked a little crazy, taking off the extra layers, gloves and hat, and stripping down to t-shirt and shorts, with the snow pelting down, but I'd be warm soon enough.

1,600m reps(1 minute rest): 5:43/5:44/5:42/5:43/5:43/5:40. Average HR=151
After I had finished the reps, I really struggled to get my additional layers back on, as my fingers had gone completely numb. Followed up with an easy three mile run back to work.

Summary: 17.5 miles

opus

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Definitely worth an experiment, if you have 5-8 weeks to an A-goal race, and want to get there in best possible shape. Food diaries also track thinks like the breakdown of Carbs/Fats/Protein/cholestrol/Vitamins etc. The data is only as good as the data that you input, so should be taken with a pinch of salt. The diary I've been playing with is MyFitnessPal, which is free (ad-supported) and has web-based user interface as well as Android and iPhone apps. I've attached a screenshot from last Wednesday (16 mile session + 5 mile recovery run), so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about.

By coincidence I started using that very app around five weeks ago, not particularly cause I wanted to shed weight as getting back to regular running was taking care of that for me anyway but just to see what it made of my diet. After two weeks, the interesting thing it showed for me was that I was eating too many carbs & not enough fat. Maybe being a veggie means I'm prone to this but anyway an easy fix, I've scaled back on pasta, porridge etc & added some nice full fat brie & camembert cheese to my diet everyday (which I really like anyway).

Only real change I've seen in myself is that I've dropped a bit of extra weight despite consuming roughly the same amount of calories. It is handy as well to let you how roughly much extra you should eat after a long run. Will keep using it for a while as it's an interesting bit of self-analysis.

Are you sticking with using it still?

jfh

hi Krusty,
know your a 1:17 half marathon man, i'm hoping to go for 1:19 in limerick.
i havn't really done any long runs(over 10 miles) as i was training for 10km all along, would you give me an idea of some key workouts i would try?
you have dabbled a bit in the P&D plans & Daniels so you've got some good ones in your log. I know you got your time training for the marathon so my endurance wouldn't be as good as yours.
tahnks

Krusty_Clown

opus wrote: »

Are you sticking with using it still?

Yes indeed. In fact, the approaching three week taper is exactly why I started using the app. As the mileage drops, I want to make sure that I'm not over-eating and gaining the weight back before the goal race. Currently weight is around 155 pounds (70.3kms), so around half a stone lighter than when I started the experiment two months ago. Hoping I'll stay within a pound or two of my current weight until race day. Can't see myself using the app after London, though it might be a handy way of avoiding post marathon blimping!

As a vegetarian, have you ever used it from a detailed nutrition perspective? e.g. vitamins, iron etc?

menoscemo

Just wanted to say thanks Krusty for posting that My Fitnesspal thing. I have heard about it and long thought about using it but never was bothered until I saw your post.
Anyway It really makes me take responsibilty for what i am eating as I know I will have to log it later. Can still have treats but it certainly has made me cut down. Dropped from 76.4kg two weeks ago to 74kg this morning. I'd like to get below 73 before London. I think I will actually keep using it after London.

Krusty_Clown

jfh wrote: »

hi Krusty,
know your a 1:17 half marathon man, i'm hoping to go for 1:19 in limerick.
i havn't really done any long runs(over 10 miles) as i was training for 10km all along, would you give me an idea of some key workouts i would try?
you have dabbled a bit in the P&D plans & Daniels so you've got some good ones in your log. I know you got your time training for the marathon so my endurance wouldn't be as good as yours.
tahnks

Hi jfh, I wouldn't recommend any isolated sessions from P&D or JD, as they are all progressive sessions, building on from one week to the next, over a 12-18 week period, so jumping in and out probably wouldn't be a great ideas. If I'm not mistaken, Limerick is only 5 weeks away, which doesn't give you a huge amount of time, so probably best to focus on some key sessions between now and race day. I'd take a look at some of tergat's previous posts, which include some good HMP session. Have a read through his. One of the mentioned sessions is:
- 4 x 1.5-2 miles @ HMP, jog 2 minutes between, then 6 x 100m @ 5k, jog 100

Out of the box, 4 x 1.5-2miles @HMP might be a bit of a struggle, but if you start with three reps, with a longer job between reps, and build on it week to week, that would see some improvements.

Krusty_Clown

menoscemo wrote: »

Just wanted to say thanks Krusty for posting that My Fitnesspal thing. I have heard about it and long thought about using it but never was bothered until I saw your post.
Anyway It really makes me take responsibilty for what i am eating as I know I will have to log it later. Can still have treats but it certainly has made me cut down. Dropped from 76.4kg two weeks ago to 74kg this morning. I'd like to get below 73 before London. I think I will actually keep using it after London.

No worries. It has been an interesting experiment, and one that I think I'd repeat if I had another 'A' goal race, as so far, it has been quite successful. I went one step further and gave my other half access to my food diary (it works similar to befriending someone friends on Facebook). Since then, my drinking has also been cut back dramatically.