Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

KielyUnusual

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Having supposedly learned from KileyUnusual's recent 3k experience, I knew all out effort would be a bad idea.

Who says?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhN0kEL9Epk

TRR

Well done today. In my opinion making a mistake and finishing third in 16.38 instead of sitting back and finishing 1st/2nd in 16.30 will stand to you in the longterm. I find 5ks a hard race to judge and you only get better with a consistent block of them. You've ran 3 recently finish 2nd,1st & 3rd and run way under your preexisting PB. Plan another couple over the coming weeks and by your 5th or 6th you'll smash a massive time out if you get right course and conditions.

dna_leri

A bad run and still 16:38 ! As I was reading through the report, I was assuming at least a minute outside PB. How one's standards have risen!

Krusty_Clown

dna_leri wrote: »

A bad run and still 16:38 ! As I was reading through the report, I was assuming at least a minute outside PB. How one's standards have risen!

Definitely happy with the time (16:36 official). It was the one thing that lifted an otherwise dodgy performance. The parkruns are fantastic as you can afford to muck about and make a few mistakes. Doesn't make it any easier to stomach at the time though (pun intended!).

TRR wrote:

I find 5ks a hard race to judge and you only get better with a consistent block of them.

It's one of those occasions when I reckon I would've done much better without a watch. When I saw the average pace of 5:35/mile (which may have been wrong) that's what triggered the move to push on. I'll learn (eventually!). Hope your 5k went well today. It's definitely the weekend for 5ks! *Edit*: In fact, congrats! Third-place is the new first place!

KielyUnusual wrote:

Who says?

Can't beat a bit of seasick Steve!

T runner

A runner called Paul Buckley (I was supposed to run with him in my last marathon, i wish i had!) mentioning to me that 4 weeks after a good marathon there is a PB in the half available for many marathon runners, when youre fully recovered and the strenght gained from pushing for 42k is still in the legs. He's very very experienced and a real specialist in the half having run sub 70. Might not be a bad way to end recovery period, bag a PB and cement some of the strenght gains before transitioning into a new cycle.

Krusty_Clown

T runner wrote: »

A runner called Paul Buckley (I was supposed to run with him in my last marathon, i wish i had!) mentioning to me that 4 weeks after a good marathon there is a PB in the half available for many marathon runners, when youre fully recovered and the strenght gained from pushing for 42k is still in the legs. He's very very experienced and a real specialist in the half having run sub 70. Might not be a bad way to end recovery period, bag a PB and cement some of the strenght gains before transitioning into a new cycle.

I think that result might have to be ear-marked for Wicklow Way Leg 7 in a couple of weeks time! Ran it yesterday, and it reminded me of just what a b1tch that leg is. Half of it is on flat road, so suitable for someone on the back of marathon training, but not so good for someone who hasn't visited any proper hills in a while. Still have three weeks to try to address that deficiency!

Kurt Godel

Sorry I never emailed you back about meeting up for this- but in any case I think your slow pace would still have trumped my ability pace! Nice day for it, nice leg too. Did you get to the Dying Cow in the end? I'm doing leg 8 on the day, so I must make a point of stopping there mid-way for a swift one. Good beer mile training

T runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I think that result might have to be ear-marked for Wicklow Way Leg 7 in a couple of weeks time! Ran it yesterday, and it reminded me of just what a b1tch that leg is. Half of it is on flat road, so suitable for someone on the back of marathon training, but not so good for someone who hasn't visited any proper hills in a while. Still have three weeks to try to address that deficiency!

A marathon type pace run on undulating road finishing on a hard up, would be good training for that leg, you'll have the strenght... you'll just need to make sure you keep the leg turnover particularly for the second big hill which can turn into a slog. LOads of people have got lost on that leg, the ford and that farm building where you can go either side (and the WW sign is usually behind overgrowth) are two. I recced it well one year but still went wrong at that farm building, even though i stopped to think for one minute standing still before it!
Looks straight forward in a recce but it can look very different when the brain is tired and the view isnt returning any useful memories.
Think its a leg where you can run a fairly even effort (hills are long but not too steep) so the marathon running fitness will be a great starting point.

nerraw1111

Leg 7 is a toughie. If you want one of us to meet you along the route with a drink, just shout.

Think it helped the leg 7 runner last year but the day was a scorcher.

Should be some craic.

Krusty_Clown

Yeah, I raced it in 2011, in an ok'ish 92 minutes (6th/30). If the weather is reasonable, I reckon you should be aiming to run it around 10 minutes off your flat half marathon time, so I'm going to set that as an initial goal. What really struck me this time around was all of the sneaky hills I had forgotten about. Each time I thought I was done, there was another sneaky hill around the corner! The more drinks the better!

Kurt Godel wrote:

Did you get to the Dying Cow in the end?

No, unfortunately not this time either. I still have yet to cross the threshold of the Dying Cow. Hopefully between the relay and plans to run the Wicklow Way in June I must surely make it in there at some stage. I've been told it's the kind of place you're better off visiting with a local anyway.

Krusty_Clown

Saturday (evening): Too many pints and even some ill-advised whiskey.
Out with the troublemakers for a night of piss-taking, slagging and trying to wrestle Abhainn's bike and wetsuit from his icy grip.

Sunday: Quarry Hill loops
Nothing better for a durty hangover than a durty hilly loop. The punishment must befit the crime, so I did three hilly loops (instead of three Hail Mary's). A nice run-off after each 110m climb kept the pace steady. Hills were a little easier than I remember, but I'll fix that soon with some hill reps.
Summary: 11.5 miles in 86 mins, @7:26/mile

Monday: Wicklow Way Leg 7 recce
A mixture of anticipation and dread, when a spot on Leg 7 of the Wicklow Way Relay fell into my lap. Though it's been almost two years, I remember the pain well. I bribed Emer to drop me out to the start of the leg with the promise of an Avoca lunch (which never transpired) and as I got ready to head off, bumped into Jb-ski and his better half, looking fresh after their own recce'. The 13 mile leg was tough in the warmth of midday and the body was a little sore after a couple of days of tough runs, so I was happy to take it easy. Navigation wasn't a problem. I just had to slow down at a few junctions and locate the way-markers, just to be certain. Tough run, but the views (and jb-ski's surplus chocolate) were a worthy reward. Still wrecked for a couple of hours of rock climbing afterwards, but felt like a weekend well spent.
Summary: 13.08 miles in 1:40, @7:36/mile

Today: 5 recovery miles
Everything was a little bit stiff, so jogged over to the park and stuck to a few easy/recovery laps around the field. 'Easy' is a little quicker at the moment.
Summary: 5.3 miles in 38:40, @7:12/mile

thewolf_ie

Your running sounds fun! Where is that Quarry?

Krusty_Clown

thewolf_ie wrote: »

Your running sounds fun! Where is that Quarry?

Not so much a quarry, as a road called Quarry Road, in the leafy suburbs of Rathmichael (near Shankill). The quarry closed in 1913, but you can still see the smelting tower from most areas of Dublin. The smelting tower was used to extract additional lead deposits which lined the walls of the chimney which ran fromt he quarry below. This additional lead was scraped off the walls by hand and most of the people who would have carried out this task died of lead poisoning. Because of this, the area became known as death valley. Some superb road running, with lots of hills in the area, and amazing trails (on land owned by Coilte) around Rathmichael Woods and Carrigologan. Well worth a look.

thewolf_ie

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Not so much a quarry, as a road called Quarry Road, in the leafy suburbs of Rathmichael (near Shankill). The quarry closed in 1913, but you can still see the smelting tower from most areas of Dublin. The smelting tower was used to extract additional lead deposits which lined the walls of the chimney which ran fromt he quarry below. This additional lead was scraped off the walls by hand and most of the people who would have carried out this task died of lead poisoning. Because of this, the area became known as death valley. Some superb road running, with lots of hills in the area, and amazing trails (on land owned by Coilte) around Rathmichael Woods and Carrigologan. Well worth a look.

Ah bit of a trek from Blessington. I like the name Death Valley would be good place to have a race!

Krusty_Clown

thewolf_ie wrote: »

Ah bit of a trek from Blessington. I like the name Death Valley would be good place to have a race!

There was an IMRA race there just last Wednesday. Sadly, it was a little too close to my previous race to consider it, which is a damn shame. I reckon I know those trails as well as anyone, but the body just wasn't ready. Well worth the trek from Blessington though!

thewolf_ie

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

There was an IMRA race there just last Wednesday. Sadly, it was a little too close to my previous race to consider it, which is a damn shame. I reckon I know those trails as well as anyone, but the body just wasn't ready. Well worth the trek from Blessington though!

I might pop over one Saturday at sunrise for a couple of hours of fun!

Krusty_Clown

thewolf_ie wrote: »

I might pop over one Saturday at sunrise for a couple of hours of fun!

Give me a shout if you do. Happy to show you around!

Yesterday: 10 mile hilly run
Had to run home at lunch-time, so I'd be there for a courier delivery. Given the sunny day and the fact that I was missing out on the Tibradden race (probably a good thing, judging by the number of skinned knees/Kildare marathon this weekend), I found myself taking the longer scenic route, up the trail via Barnacullia and onwards to Glencullen/Johnny Foxes before enjoying an easy 6 mile descent back down to home. I had woken up with very sore achilles (probably as a result of some long back to back hill runs), but today the achilles are feeling a little less stiff, while everything else hurts like a bastid. Goes to show the value of including some hill running when off-program.
Summary: 10 miles, 73 mins, @7:17/mile

Today: 5 mile slow
Hammer pretty sore, so was happy when Keith suggested a run in the field. A couple of lads on scramblers provided passable entertainment as they rode loops around the field, however there wasn't a single frickin wheelie between them. Why go the trouble of stealing a scrambler, only to ride it up and down a flat grass field? Any way, winter's back. Can't wait for summer next year.
Summary: 5 slow miles

Peckham

Sorry I missed you on Saturday at parkrun. Sounds like you left your mark!

Krusty_Clown

Peckham wrote: »

Sorry I missed you on Saturday at parkrun. Sounds like you left your mark!

Yeah, I left it all over the bushes. Hopefully the grumpy lady with the angry Chihuahua won't give you guys any grief! Next time, drop me a text when Davy Byrne is nowhere to be seen and I'll pop around again. That's the right way to win a race; the other runners shouldn't even know you're there until you push to the front with 400m to go!

antomagoo

Krusty, might be out Bray direction over the next few days & was hoping to fit in a 8-10 mile run. Starting at the beach I was thinking of heading back towards little Bray (want to avoid puland hill ) and then hanging a left up at the lights opposite ford garage. Whats the roads up there like for running, its been a good 15 years or more since I was up that way

Clearlier

Hope Krusty doesn't mind me butting in.

Anto - If it's just the steep hill on Putland road that you want to avoid (rather than the area) you can always go up Newcourt Rd. which is parallel to Putland Rd. (on the Greystones side). If you run along the Meath Rd. (parallel to the strand rd.) and join it from there then you'll avoid anything too steep.

Krusty_Clown

Clearlier wrote: »

Hope Krusty doesn't mind me butting in.

Butt away...

By the sounds of things Anto, you're suggesting that you head to little Bray and then head up Old Connaught Avenue? If you don't like Putland Road because of the hill, you won't be doing yourself any favours by heading up Old Connaught Avenue. The road splits into three branches, and each of them would make Putland Road seem as flat as an athletics track.

If I were you (and you want to leave Bray (as so many people do ), I'd head towards Shankill, and turn up around Rathmicheal, before heading down Commons Road and into Shangannagh Park. Something like this. Id offer to join you, but am marathoning on Sunday, so won't be doing any medium-long runs either side of it.

antomagoo

Clearlier wrote: »

Anto - If it's just the steep hill on Putland road that you want to avoid (rather than the area) you can always go up Newcourt Rd. which is parallel to Putland Rd. (on the Greystones side). If you run along the Meath Rd. (parallel to the strand rd.) and join it from there then you'll avoid anything too steep.

Yeah I considered that but then your left with the southern cross (boring) or heading to Greystones & depending how far I go, I'll have Windgates on the way back but I suppose its all downhill from there.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

By the sounds of things Anto, you're suggesting that you head to little Bray and then head up Old Connaught Avenue? If you don't like Putland Road because of the hill, you won't be doing yourself any favours by heading up Old Connaught Avenue. The road splits into three branches, and each of them would make Putland Road seem as flat as an athletics track.

Yeah that's the way I was thinking of heading alright, might rethink.

Id offer to join you, but am marathoning on Sunday, so won't be doing any medium-long runs either side of it.

Cheers anyway but even if you were around I probably couldn't commit to an exact time anyway, it will be an opportunistic run, teething has already put paid to this evenings jaunt :rolleyes:

Krusty_Clown

Yesterday: rest day
I'm not a big fan of rest days. Not because there's anything wrong with rest days, but rather because they don't seem to work for me. When I take a rest day, I feel worse the following day; kind of like I'm giving the niggles and injuries-in-waiting a chance to regroup and team up on me. But the hamstring was sore yesterday and the easy recovery run the day before had not helped things, so a rest day seemed like the right thing to do. Waking up this morning, it was a good chunk better, so certainly the right thing to do.

Today: 5 miles with 3 mimles @ pacing pace
Kildare marathon in the morning, so wanted to make sure that the body and legs were ok. After shaking out the initial stiffness, the pace miles were nice and comfortable, so all systems go. Hamstring issue was still present, but more as background noise. Hopefully the end of it.
Summary: 5 miles in 35 mins

thewolf_ie

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Yesterday: rest day
I'm not a big fan of rest days. Not because there's anything wrong with rest days, but rather because they don't seem to work for me. When I take a rest day, I feel worse the following day; kind of like I'm giving the niggles and injuries-in-waiting a chance to regroup and team up on me. But the hamstring was sore yesterday and the easy recovery run the day before had not helped things, so a rest day seemed like the right thing to do. Waking up this morning, it was a good chunk better, so certainly the right thing to do.

Today: 5 miles with 3 mimles @ pacing pace
Kildare marathon in the morning, so wanted to make sure that the body and legs were ok. After shaking out the initial stiffness, the pace miles were nice and comfortable, so all systems go. Hamstring issue was still present, but more as background noise. Hopefully the end of it.
Summary: 5 miles in 35 mins

Good luck tomorrow. What time are you pacing?

Gringo78

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

By the end of the first lap, I noticed my shoe lace had opened and was flapping about (schoolboy error #1). I considered pulling up to tie it, but figured as long as I kept a bit of distance from the other runners, I'd be ok for the remaining 10 minutes (mile 1: 5:20).

You commented on my Bungee laces down in Ballycotton thinking there was a triathlon angle but I'd highly recommend them for pure runners - laces will never open but also, once you have the bungee laces set once, your runners will always be right, never too tight or too loose. Also, if your feet swell during a race (e.g in a longer distance race) the bungee laces will be more forgiving than the laces on this. I recently changed runners and didn't bother immediately changing over the bungee laces - sure enough, lace opened during a race. Highly recommend you get a pair. Plus they are much easier/quicker to put on & off, v.important when you're always trying to squeeze in runs at lunchtime - every second counts.

aero2k

Gary,

A huge congratulations on London and a wonderful pacing job in difficult conditions in Kildare. As much as I've been inpressed by the quality of your training, the detailed, informative, and entertaining logs, your seemingly unstoppable series of PBs...I think it's also important to commend you on how much you give back - I know know several people who owe their PBs to your pacing efforts. Taking on this kind of responsibility is not to be underestimated.

Gringo asked some of the questions I had in mind for you after London, but here's one - how much sleep do you get, and is it enough?:D

aero

Krusty_Clown

aero2k wrote: »

Gary,

A huge congratulations on London and a wonderful pacing job in difficult conditions in Kildare. As much as I've been inpressed by the quality of your training, the detailed, informative, and entertaining logs, your seemingly unstoppable series of PBs...I think it's also important to commend you on how much you give back - I know know several people who owe their PBs to your pacing efforts. Taking on this kind of responsibility is not to be underestimated.

Gringo asked some of the questions I had in mind for you after London, but here's one - how much sleep do you get, and is it enough?:D

aero

Many thanks Sean. I meant to do a write-up on the pacing stuff (it was sub-3 thewolf!), but when I have niggles I reckon I subconsciously tend to stay away from the training log for a stretch (keeps me from doing anything stupid!). The pacing stuff in Kildare wasn't terribly tough. Any challenge or difficulty was self-inflicted, in the form of niggles and pains and that's down to my own foolishness (long back to back hilly runs, 5k races too soon).

To be honest, I don't give much back to the running community, other than answering a few people's questions on how to use the watches they bought (cos they're not bothered to read the manuals!). I think it was TRR who once posted that pacing is a selfish rather than a selfless act, and though I may not have agreed at the time, I'm coming around to that way of thinking). We get free entry into the race, get to enjoy the race environment without having to really break a sweat, and get lauded as heros at the end of it. It plays upon our runner's vanity. I've been hurting like a bastid for the two days since though, so it does come at some personal cost! Having said that, I'm volunteering at the Wimmen's mini marathon, and that's got to be worth some bonus brownie points!

As to the sleep question, I am an awful, awful sleeper. Genuinely, I'd be lucky to get 5-6 hours of solid sleep a night. Just doesn't happen. Doesn't seem to hamper me too greatly, but sometimes it just accumulates and I spend a day in a cloudy haze. I don't see a way out of it, so no point in worrying about it.

How has the recovery gone since London? Any races planned for the summer?

BeepBeep67

I think you're a hero - even though you went through halfway under 1:29 , I was sensible enough to sit back :pac:

Krusty_Clown

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I think you're a hero - even though you went through halfway under 1:29 , I was sensible enough to sit back :pac:

I was just trying to wear out all of the other runners, to improve your overall placing. At half way we were around 20 seconds ahead of target (2:59:00), but sure with the hills immediately afterwards, you're better off having that 20 seconds cushion (even if it was unintentional). Our first 4 miles were pretty fast though (which is where those 20 seconds came from), but you do drop around 45m over those initial miles.

It's funny when you have someone like Pauline Curley in the group, as she ran 2:51 last year and 2:55 this year (despite having stayed with us for the first 14 miles). She was only interested in winning (nothing wrong with that) so stuck with the group until she could be sure that the second place female was not going to challenge her. But... She wanted to get something out of the group too. A bit of wind shelter.. Perhaps a bit of company on the lonely Kildare roads (apart from her cycling buddy and mate in a blue van). When she initially started to push forward I had to tell the lads not to go with her as she was making a break. They saw her open up a gap and wanted to chase her down. She fell back after half a mile, when she realized that no-one had gone with her. The next time she pushed on though (after the hills at 13-14 miles) around four lads went with her, and I stuck with the three lads who were running at a more appropriate pace. I reckon nearly all the lads who pushed on with her fell back eventually, and we passed them in the closing two miles (though some still went on to hit their targets).