Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Oregano_State

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Would the above be done in a single session or is this two sessions?

For the second night in a row, I woke from my slumber unable to move my right leg, which had seized/locked up and was painful to move. I haven't had any physio this side of London marathon, so I reckon it's time to pay a visit. Legs are feeling pretty ok today though. Also got two hours of rock climbing in last night, so the core stuff is largely taken care of.

That would be two sessions. 6x60m @100% is more tiring than you'd think!

Good running though.

Try to do this stuff on a tartan track, grip is very important!
Also, make sure your legs are in good nick. Speed-work is a divil for exposing your weak-points to injury. I'm a case-in-point at the moment!

KielyUnusual

Alright KC,

Did you do the above session from a standing start or did you go for the running start this time? Down the club on Tuesday and we were doing strides in the warm up. I realised how little leg lift and arm movement I have. Very good for marathon running but not so good over 400m. That's probably one major area where we could see a bit of improvement for the next stab at the event.

Krusty_Clown

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Alright KC,

Did you do the above session from a standing start or did you go for the running start this time? Down the club on Tuesday and we were doing strides in the warm up. I realised how little leg lift and arm movement I have. Very good for marathon running but not so good over 400m. That's probably one major area where we could see a bit of improvement for the next stab at the event.

Hi Mike, had an easy run-up to the starting line for these ones. Basically started jogging 50m before the start line, which is probably pretty similar to the benefit of a block start. I agree with you on the leg/arm lift, and that's where I had the best result yesterday. It's something I had been playing around with, during the XC season (in boggy, mucky ground) which seemed to help, but is a challenge to do for us minimal-range of motion long distance runners.

Pisco Sour

Wouldn't get dispirited with the times. They will obviously be slower than on a synthetic track. By how much, I have no idea as I have never run on a cinder track.

As a point of reference in training if I was doing a set of 200s with say 4 minute recoveries I'd probably be doing them in the 27 second range, dropping to 28, and eventually 29 by the end depending on the session and recovery,though in racing flats rather than spikes. PB mid 25 so a bit off that in training which is fine.

I would recommend a couple of sessions on a proper track. If you can't manage that then don't get hung up on times in the absolute sense and focus on effort, form, and compare times to previous sessions on the same track to track progress.

I reckon that was a fairly decent session you did. What was the length of the recoveries?

And yeh, the 6x60m is one session. Dont be fooled by the length, it could be the most lethal for somebody with a marathon background, so be careful with it.

Krusty_Clown

Pisco Sour wrote: »

I reckon that was a fairly decent session you did. What was the length of the recoveries?

And yeh, the 6x60m is one session. Dont be fooled by the length, it could be the most lethal for somebody with a marathon background, so be careful with it.

The recovery was complete (i.e. we stood around chatting until we felt recovered enough to do the next one). Didn't time them but I'd guess 5-7 minutes.

Any way to estimate 60m on an unmarked track? I'm guessing that the flat (between the bends) is probably around 70-75m (might be a question for Kurt Godel!)? Will do the 6 x 60m early next week. Was thinking of doing them today, but achilles are still quite inflamed and general ankle areas are quite stiff/sore. In fact I haven't run pain-free for quite a number of weeks, which is having a negative impact on my running motivation. However, I have taken the bold, much-overdue step of booking in for a sports massage for next week.

In the meantime, I hope to run Bohermeen 5k tomorrow, just for the craic and the experience. Certainly not in PB shape, as haven't done any suitable training now in 6 weeks, but happy to use it as a solid training session and to stay sharp, until long distance training begins again in earnest.

Yesterday: 6.3 easy recovery miels around Cabinteely Park @8:04/mile
Today: Nice sunny 5.5 miles easy, @7:11/mile

RayCun

Kurt Godel

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Any way to estimate 60m on an unmarked track?

Count how many strides you take running 100m and run 6/10 times them (I presume the 100m is marked?). Stride length should be close enough to same.

If totally unmarked, 1/6.666666667 times your 400m amount of strides (run at similar pace).

Failing that, Garmins have a US government satellite mode (need to hold down the On/Off button while saying loudly "Monticello") that allow for measurements from space-Earth of one thousandth of an inch, so you could just measure 60m off that. (But the US government will be able to probe your home computers via Garmin connect).

BeepBeep67

Or or Or

Krusty_Clown

Actually, now that the earlier sun-stroke has worn off, there's actually no point in doing the 60m reps on a cinder track, as it's not marked. I reckon the ground is actually harder (and has far less traction) than a freshly laid piece of tarmac, so might as well find a stretch of flat road and measure it. The cinder track is really only useful for 200/400m based reps.

Beepbeep: Your tape measures are no good! They only go to 100 feet (30m). Sure I'd have to buy two of them and lay them end to end.

BeepBeep67

You could do them as shuttle runs

BeepBeep67

BTW - don't get hung up on 60mts, it's the session that counts, so try flat out for 8 secs.

Pisco Sour

Every track has different dimensions. I've run on tracks with 100m straights and on tracks with as little as 75m straights.

Far from scientific but what I do if I want to measure a distance roughly (and I'm not at a track) is get the distance I want to run, multiply by 1.2 and then walk that amount of steps. There's roughly 1.2 of my natural steps in 1 metre. So if I wanted to roughly measure 60m I'd walk 72 steps.

I wouldn't worry about the precise distance. It shouldn't matter as you don't want to be timing your reps on this session anyway. 1) They will never be accurate and 2) Starting and stopping your watch will just get in the way of proper form, and starting from a 3 point start, which is what you want to be doing, to practice acceleration from a motionless start.

Krusty_Clown

Yesterday: Bohermeen 5k Fail!

Took it easy all day in preparation for the 5k in Meath, even staying out of the sun to avoid any potential dehydration. Left the house in plenty of time (6pm), and was enjoying the amazing sunshine on the motorcycle. Then the trip turned into that scene from the Truman Show, where I was thwarted at every turn from leaving Dublin. Complete directional brain failure. Eventually, I had the choice to make a mad dash to Bohermeen and get there with 10 minutes to spare, or head home. When the Garda bike appeared over my shoulder, I took it as a sign and headed for home at a sedate pace.

I decided I'd make the most of the situation, and head out for that 6 x 60m training session, so after briefly scouring youtube for videos about 'three-point starts', I headed to the local park, which by now, was thankfully quiet, as most sensible people were either in the pub or having dinner. An easy loop around the park, and I arrived at what I figured was the flattest straightest section of path, which thankfully was also sheltered from the sun (perfect sprinting conditions, I'd imagine). I walked the section of path several times (switching the watch over to metric for the first time ever) and measured out a distance of 60m, then added another 10m or so, and picked out a couple of landmarks (a park bench and a fence).

The sprints were fine; more physically taxing on injury points (achilles, calfs, glutes) rather than cardiovascular effort. Unfortunately I had the Garmin switched off for most of the sprints, but the data from the Garmin wouldn't have been that useful anyway. I did 9 or 10 reps in the end (which likely points to under-performing in the actual reps) and found that my starts from the three point position felt really slow. Looking at those same youtube clips afterwards, I realize that I had the wrong arm forward (same as leading leg) which probably didn't help. Achilles are sore afterwards, as are glutes, etc., and had that same pain waking me in the middle of the night, but physio session is booked.

Pisco Sour

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Looking at those same youtube clips afterwards, I realize that I had the wrong arm forward (same as leading leg) which probably didn't help.

Ha ha, I know the feeling. I had never done a 3 point start until my visit home last year. I was training with the DSD group and I did exactly what you did, and after my first attempt at it I had 3 different people point out my error within 20 seconds of each other!! Haven't made that mistake since that's for sure!

Krusty_Clown

Today: Road/Trail 17 mile easy run

Would be great to just focus on track for a while, but I have the Alpine marathon coming up in just 7 weeks. While I'm not too pushed about a time, survival is imperative. The race start at high altitude (1,380m) and climbs to 2,739m (just after half way), so time to start including some 'up' in my running. I started in Shankill and followed the Dublin Mountain Way up as far as Three rock, before dropping down to Stepaside and onwards to home. Didn't mind the 'up' too much, but without any drinks for more than two hours in that heat, I was completely parched afterwards. Today's run had 650 cumulative metres of climb, so not even close to half the climb of the Alpine run. Next time, I'll take a left instead and head up over Prince William's Seat, which might yield some more up.

Summary: 17 miles in 2:18, @8:00/mile

Krusty_Clown

Today: 8 miles including 6x120m

Had sports massage booked for this evening, so my crazed logic suggested that I should make the most out of it by doing a 400m training session first, to maximise value for money. Twisted logic, huh? Another of the recommended 'speed-improvement' sessions; 6 x 120m, with 60-20-40.

Broke open a new pair Kinvara 3s and headed down to the cinder track. Couldn't believe the difference in cushioning between the new shoes and the 500 mile semi-retired Kinvaras. I reckon as a heavier (11+ stone) runner, 450-500 miles out of a pair of Kinvaras (including multiple marathons) is about as mileage as I should reasonably expect, before the support becomes permanently compressed. The old shoes feel like comfy slippers, whereas the new shoes feel like supportive training shoes.

Again I switched the watch over to metric (and data recording to per/second) and walked the 120m stretch alongside the track, marking out 60, 80 and 120m markers with discarded plastic bottles (which worked out fine, until some friendly old octogenarian decided to pick up the rubbish!). This time, I had a better idea (I think?!) of what a three point start should look like and at least used the correct leading hand. Not sure how much quicker my starts were, but they felt slightly more natural. At the end of each, I walked back to the start, and spent the next few minutes stretching the calfs and trying to ease the pain in the achilles.

Quite enjoyed the reps. Easing back for 20m and re-engaging 'fast' gear for the final 40m. I can see how this would be good training for the 400m, where there is a need to re-engage over the second half of the race. These weren't timed, so have no idea what times would look like. Definitely not feeling any faster, but at least I'm getting some practice at running all out. Will try 150s or 200s next, as this is where I really struggle to hold on, so figure speed-endurance may be were I need the most work. The three mile run back to work afterwards, was crippling with sore achilles.

Sports massage really hit the spot (in other words, very painful), but will hopefully mean a pain-free night. Will give the graded meets tomorrow a miss (there's no C or D grade 400m and there's plenty of opportunities to run 800m races). I was a little worried that an impending work trip was going to overlap with my plan to run another 400m race, but I've found another race in August (Master T&F in Tullamore) just in case (and potentially a third shot).

jfh

hi krusty, not sure if this has been mentioned before but over on marathon training talk, tom is attempting his magic mile training again
http://marathontalk.com/podcast/episode_178_adharanand_finn_part_one.php

belcarra

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Again I switched the watch over to metric (and data recording to per/second)...

Good man, now you're learning!:pac:

Krusty_Clown

Yesterday: Pretty crap day

After a sh1tty work day, I headed out to Morton Stadium for the Graded meet, with the plan of running the 800m Grade D. I got the missus to drop me out on the basis that we could go rock climbing in nearby Finglas afterwards. Arrived in Morton at around 7:20pm and signed up for the 800m (three other names on the list for the race). A big attendance in Morton as it was also doubling as the Dublin Championships. I did a warm-up of around 1.5 miles and some stretching and headed back to the stadium 15 minutes before the race was due to start. Unfortunately, due to an IT failure, the schedule was running 30-40 minutes late. I hung around and watched the races until my lift home arrived, and there was still another 20 minutes before my race would realistically take place, so sad of heart, I gathered my stuff and left the stadium, pausing only to watch the the 400m Championship race. Amazing to watch how a 400m race should properly be run. A little disappointed I didn't get to run, but again, in hindsight, I'm really not in great shape at the moment. I was limping going into the stadium, and I was limping when I was leaving, so I'm not sure what I had hoped to accomplish. So 1.5 miles and around 45 minutes of bouldering for the day. Not great.

Still, I cheered myself up with a couple of bottles of Moosehead, which went down a treat.

Krusty_Clown

Yesterday: 5.5 recovery + 5.5 easy

A little disgruntled with Wednesday's running failure, I vowed to make amends on Thursday, with a couple of easy runs. A 5.5 mile recovery run at lunch-time started in beautiful sunshine, was followed by heavy pelting rain, sunshine, hail, sun, rain and finally more rain. Didn't mind the rain as it suited the mood, but the sunshine was a pain in the whole. Didn't leave work until close to 9:30pm, but if there's anything that will wash away the sins of a work day, it's a 5.5 mile downhill run, chasing the sunset. Glorious.

Unfortunately my fears have been realized, and my first work trip to the USA in over 18 months coincides with my planned attempt to run the 400m in under 60 seconds. So some tough decisions lie ahead. While there's another race in August, I know I cannot sustain doing both sprint training and build-up to a marathon plan at the same time (with a mountain marathon in the middle) as I will basically fall apart (I'm already feeling like a bit of a crock). I'll also be away for a couple of weeks before the Masters T&F in August, so won't get much opportunity to do any specific training, bar the two weeks before the race. This period also overlaps with the build-up towards DCM. So once again, though motivated to give this a proper bash, life is throwing me a curveball. I was going to say that I reckon this is my last chance to try to break 60 seconds, but I think I also said that last year. :rolleyes:

ultraman1

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Unfortunately my fears have been realized, and my first work trip to the USA in over 18 months coincides with my planned attempt to run the 400m in

ive a job goin, 3 days over 7,free parking , training provided,meals provided,uniforms provided,a gentle and respectful manner needed and a high tolerance for the smell of human gick is required...good luck with the 60 secs

Krusty_Clown

ultraman1 wrote: »

ive a job goin, 3 days over 7,free parking , training provided,meals provided,uniforms provided,a gentle and respectful manner needed and a high tolerance for the smell of human gick is required...good luck with the 60 secs

First world problems! I'll stop complaining now.

Dory Dory

You'll be in the states??? I'm sure I can't be lucky enough that you'll be anywhere close to me.

Krusty_Clown

Dory Dory wrote: »

You'll be in the states??? I'm sure I can't be lucky enough that you'll be anywhere close to me.

Not unless you're somewhere in the upper-middle!

DogSlySmile

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Today: Road/Trail 17 mile easy run
Next time, I'll take a left instead and head up over Prince William's Seat, which might yield some more up.e

Sounds like a good run. How would you get there? Take a Left after glencullen or is there a way to approach it from the Shankill side?

Krusty_Clown

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Sounds like a good run. How would you get there? Take a Left after glencullen or is there a way to approach it from the Shankill side?

I was thinking of heading to Glencullen via Kindlestown Wood. A little like this. Still only 500m elevation change, but looks like a good hard run.

DogSlySmile

Nice. Might give that a go next weekend if I have the time. Too bad a lot of those roads around enniskerry/glencullen don't have paths for running on

Krusty_Clown

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Nice. Might give that a go next weekend if I have the time. Too bad a lot of those roads around enniskerry/glencullen don't have paths for running on

True, but they're largely pretty quiet roads. I'll probably do that loop on Sunday, if you want some company, but I'll be racing Saturday night, so it'll be at a very easy pace.

DogSlySmile

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

True, but they're largely pretty quiet roads. I'll probably do that loop on Sunday, if you want some company, but I'll be racing Saturday night, so it'll be at a very easy pace.

Nice one, sounds good. I'll let you know if I can make it

Slogger Jogger

Re: your alpine marathon you could do worse than riddle your schedule with whatever imra races there are, to get the hill climbing into the legs. The event today, Circuit of Avonbeg, would have been ideal for that. Connaught Championship in 2 weeks with 2 races in 2 days would be good too.