Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

dna_leri

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Funny you mention that about the 2:32 guy. During the conversation between the three of us, one of the lads asked me my name. 2:32 guy recognized my name from the Roscommon 10 mile and said something about 'putting the Sligo lads in their place', which was something you'd said previously in this thread. Do you run with him sometimes? Reckon he has some memorable times ahead, if he makes the commitment. Some runner.

Your fame spreads far and wide. He's from a rival club but is a great talent.

Chivito550

Well done. I remember saying about 2 years ago that you could run 75 and you laughed at the thought and dismissed it.

What sort of time do you think you have in you at full pelt? 2-3 mins quicker?

Krusty_Clown

Chivito550 wrote: »

Well done. I remember saying about 2 years ago that you could run 75 and you laughed at the thought and dismissed it.

What sort of time do you think you have in you at full pelt? 2-3 mins quicker?

I think I remember that also. I guess it's hard to look beyond one training cycle. At times it feels like I'm training pretty close to my limits, and at those particular points in time, it's hard to see where an improvement can come from. But progress is inevitable, and cycle by cycle what was once impossible becomes achievable. I'll be racing a half in a few weeks time and I'd hope to set out at around 5:40/mile pace, and see how long I can hold on. If it went to plan (and it may not), that would give me a low 1:14 time.

Krusty_Clown

Monday: 9.2 miles + 10.8 miles easy
Probably over-doing it a little the day after the Longford HM, but I got a holler to go for a second run, and company trumps sensibleness in a peak mileage week.

Tuesday: 6 miles + 6.3 miles easy

Wednesday: ~JDA: 2 x 20 mins @16km/hour + 10 mins easy
Didn't feel well during the day, so put off this session until after work. By the time I finished work, it was getting dark, so the unlit cinder track wasn't an option (and the howling wind didn't make the prospect any more attractive). The choice I had was to do it on the dreadmill or not do it at all, so I took a quick glance at the JD book for equivalent paces, and managed to snag a lift to the Loughlinstown Leisure Centre. Hopped on a dreadmill furthest from the mirror (why do they put a damn mirror in front of a treadmill?) and launched into a two mile warm-up.... Only it felt like a brisk walk... Either I'd suddenly come on in leaps or bounds or something was up. Notched the dreadmill up to 16 km/hour - easy jog. Damn thing was definitely poorly calibrated. So tried another treadmill two doors up, and every step resulted in a load bang, which over the course of an hour, would be 10k+ strides, so another non-runner. Another two treadmills to the left, and 6 minute/mile felt about right, @1% incline. Got through the 2x20 mins, @16km/hour, and truth be told, they felt a little easy. Thinking back, I should have had the dreadmill running faster (maybe 16.5 - 17 km/hour), but you just don't know how well these things are set up, so you have to take all readings with a pinch of salt. Ran the 2.5 miles home and got totally drowned, which is a little ironic, having run the tempo sections indoors.
Summary: 12.5 miles @some arbitrary treadmill number

Thursday: 6 miles recovery + 11.15 miles easy
Too much going on in work, so had to get up early to tick off some recovery miles. Then met up with beepbeep and headed to Kilruddery for a very enjoyable guided tour of the trails, scenic spots and film locations that abound around this wonderful spot. Will definitely be back when I need to tick off some easy miles as it's a great spot to whittle away some miles. Finished up with some easy miles back to home.

Friday: 5.5 miles + 5.1 miles + 10 miles easy
Again, hadn't planned on doing so many miles, but an opportunity to hit another 10 miles with company couldn't be turned down, so wrapped up 20 miles for the day, ending up completely knackered.

Saturday: JDA: 2E + 5k@T +11.5E + 2 x2M@T + 2.5E
Woke up knackered, evidence that an accumulated 20 miles the day before isn't good prep for a tough session, but better to get it done now, then face it in the middle of next week, with a race next weekend. Headed out to Tymon with Emer and bumped into ecoli during my warm-up. It was good to catch up (must head out for another run soon). We made it back to the start of the Parkrun just as it was kicking off. Plan was to tick off the initial 5k at tempo, try to finish first, and if I'm being honest, have a pop at TRR's course record. Shortly after starting though, I knew I just didn't have it in the legs, as I struggled to hit tempo pace, but it was great to have Peterx to chase on the bike, pointing out each turn before we hit it. Finished at 5:40/mile, which was good enough for my session, but not a great outcome for a Parkrun. Chatted to Digger and Claralara afterwards, before regretfully hitting the road for the next phase of the session.

11.5 miles easy (@7:18/mile) actually felt comfortable enough. It was only supposed to be 10 miles, but I hadn't pre-plotted a route. Took a brief diversion via my office, to grab a dry top, a gel, and replendish my bottle of water. Was fairly knackered arriving at the track, so wasn't too optimistic about hitting tempo pace again (after not being able to hit it at the start of the session). Still, I managed enough to keep it respectable in my mind, with the first two miles at marathon pace(5:50/mile), and the next two miles (after a two minute rest) just outside of marathon pace (5:55/mile). The 2.5 mile cool-down back to home was rough, but I carried a small sense of accomplishment for having hit most of this session towards the end of a peak mileage week.
Summary: 23.x miles

Itziger

Great week there. The Monday and Friday runs, wow! I feel a bit better about struggling to hit some of my T miles when I see you typing the same.

Yes, folk, I am aware of the difference in our paces.

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

Great week there. The Monday and Friday runs, wow! I feel a bit better about struggling to hit some of my T miles when I see you typing the same.

Yes, folk, I am aware of the difference in our paces.

Cheers Itziger. There's feck all difference in our training paces - I'm just a training cycle or two ahead of you. I really didn't set myself up for success with that training run, between doing it a week early, during a max mileage week, with lots of miles sandwiched around it, so I knew hitting the numbers would be hard. Sometimes you just have to inject a bit of realism! I also swapped the order of the T sections so I could include the Parkrun, but not sure if that makes it easier or tougher. Man, if there was another Park run at around 10:30am I would have been all set. Definitely one of the toughest sessions in Plan A.

yaboya1

I notice you picked up another 1st placed finish too. Well done. Is it just Waterstown left to complete the Dublin set?

Itziger

All Krusty really needs to do is trick the body into thinking Frankfurt is part of a training run!

Ok, enough typing. Out for Q1 8 weeks out.

Krusty_Clown

yaboya1 wrote: »

I notice you picked up another 1st placed finish too. Well done. Is it just Waterstown left to complete the Dublin set?

Yep, that's the one (until they introduce a 'scathering of new ones!).

Today: 4 mile recovery run
Legs pretty stiff this morning, so nice to head out in the sunshine for the shortest run I've done in a long, long time, just to top out the weekly mileage at 110 miles. Rock climbing for the afternoon, 'cos rest is the devil's work.

Itziger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Yep, that's the one (until they introduce a 'scathering of new ones!).

Today: 4 mile recovery run
Legs pretty stiff this morning, so nice to head out in the sunshine for the shortest run I've done in a long, long time, just to top out the weekly mileage at 110 miles. Rock climbing for the afternoon, 'cos rest is the devil's work.

Ah, don't say that. Spoils my whole afternoon plan. And it's raining outside, and Mrs Itz has just asked me if I want a slice of the plum tart I made yesterday from the garden tree plums. Now, 64,000$ if you can guess my answer........

Krusty_Clown

Monday: 14 miles easy
American holiday, so found that I had most of my work queue dispensed with early enough, so took the opportunity to go for a slightly longer run than normal, instead of the usual Monday double. By my calculations, I've ran around UCD 6 times (DCM 2008 -> DCM 2013), but have never run in the grounds of the university, so headed in through the Fosters Avenue gate and tried to do a wide loop, getting lost on several occasions. I wasn't alone, as there were many sheepish looking first years, wandering around looking a little forlorn and intimidated. Then I ran into the polar opposites - the smug and cocky graduates, complete with capes and mortarboards. Nice spot for a run, and nice to get it all done in one go, and get an evening off for a change. Wore the HRM just out of curiosity and learned that my suspicions are correct. I am indeed a lazy fncker.
Summary: 14 miles in 1:43 @7:23/mile, HR=~122

Tuesday: JDA: 8 x 1600@T with 30 seconds rest = 15 miles
This is a tough session. Not because of the quality, but because of the gaps between the quality. You finish a rep and hit the lap button. By the time you've come to a complete stop, five seconds of your rest have already expired. Raise arms to head and take a deep breath....Another 5 seconds. Swing arms - 5 seconds more. Close eyes briefly.... Panic... you've only 5 seconds left before the next rep starts. Turn around to face the other way. The next rep has begun...

While the session didn't go entirely to plan, I took some smug delight in completing it, having fallen apart during this same session last year (is it ok to look down on the 'you from 12 months ago' in a condescending and self righteous manner?). For the first time ever, I actually ran some of the reps in a clock-wise direction around the cinder track, as I'm beginning to think that always going one direction is causing some shin pain and an excessive amount of wear in my shoes and socks, (consistently developing a hole above the big toe on the left side). Apart from the fact that it's easier to count the reps when you alternate directions, at least now I'll develop holes in both my left and right footwear. Running clock-wise also really highlights the fact that the cinder track is built on a slope and features a couple of small hills. Not enough to affect the splits, but enough to make you think longingly of those bouncy flat tartan tracks. Anyway, it wasn't pretty (probably serves more usefully as a half marathon session than a tempo session), but a good workout all the same. I'm done with making excuses - I didn't hit the numbers. 5:31/mile is not my tempo pace. I'm still a damn site faster and stronger than I was last year. No tears or regrets, just getting on with it.
Planned pace: 5:31
Actual reps: 5:30/5:32/5:34/5:37/5:36/5:41/5:40/5:41
Rest: 30-37 seconds
Summary: ~15 miles in ~1:37, @~6:30/mile

pointer28

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

For the first time ever, I actually ran some of the reps in a clock-wise direction around the cinder track, as I'm beginning to think that always going one direction is causing some shin pain and an excessive amount of wear in my shoes and socks, (consistently developing a hole above the big toe on the left side).

I know from training horses that you always alternate the direction you work them in so that you don't have muscular imbalances or niggles like you mention, apart from on race day obviously :rolleyes:

Whenever I'm on a track I always chop and change the direction of my intervals and could never understand why people run the same way all the time. Seems like a perfect way to cause problems.

Itziger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Monday:14 miles in 1:43 @7:23/mile, HR=~122

Fuppin' Hell. 122 HR. Is that not incredibly impressive? I'm no HR expert but when I bend down to tie my laces my HR goes up to about that.

Krusty_Clown

pointer28 wrote: »

I know from training horses that you always alternate the direction you work them in so that you don't have muscular imbalances or niggles like you mention, apart from on race day obviously :rolleyes:

Whenever I'm on a track I always chop and change the direction of my intervals and could never understand why people run the same way all the time. Seems like a perfect way to cause problems.

I suppose part of it is the need to fit in with everyone else! I remember doing a session recently, and there was one female walking clockwise, while the rest of us tried to run our various elements in a counter-clockwise direction. It was chaos! Every time we met, it was 50/50 on who would give way. But thankfully if I hit the track at lunch-time, there's usually nobody else there. Of course it makes sense, it's just not always practical. Challenging to change direction effectively during a 20 minute tempo section too. It's a brave new world. I may do some more clockwise quality work!

Itziger wrote:

Fuppin' Hell. 122 HR. Is that not incredibly impressive? I'm no HR expert but when I bend down to tie my laces my HR goes up to about that.

That's the output from thousands and thousand of miles over the last few years at lazy pace. Imagine if I'd just run 'em a bit quicker. I'd be deadly. I have to get my kids to tie my shoe-laces. That's why I always go with velcro.

AuldManKing

Hey KC - how are you finding this training cycle so far?
Do you think the Magness training cycle has improved your marathon training capacity or has it had no impact??

pointer28

Sorry, I didn't necessarily mean changing direction midway through a session, more like alternate your quality sessions so q1 is clockwise and q2 is anti clockwise or similar. Obviously you have to follow the crowd on a shared track, not like your walker friend.

Krusty_Clown

AuldManKing wrote: »

Hey KC - how are you finding this training cycle so far?
Do you think the Magness training cycle has improved your marathon training capacity or has it had no impact??

Hi Auldfella, I'm finding it pretty tough, but it's a tough program. This is my third spin of this program, and it doesn't get easier. Max mileage has increased by 10% and tempo pace has dropped by 10-15 seconds per mile. While I'm struggling a little to hit the sharpest numbers, my goal was always a very aggressive one. Trying to take six minutes off of my marathon is a pretty lofty goal and I may not make it, but like every other spin of the wheel, I'll give it my best shot.

The Magness program definitely had a massive impact. The numbers speak for themselves. 30 seconds off my 5k time, 45 seconds off my 10k time, a minute of my 10 mile, hopefully a couple of minutes off my half marathon, and fingers crossed, more again off my marathon time. In relative terms, it's brought me on more than any program I've followed in my six years of running.

RayCun

I seem to remember reading that Sonia O'Sullivan always ran her warmups clockwise. But then she was probably doing that partly to intimidate everyone else

Krusty_Clown

RayCun wrote: »

I seem to remember reading that Sonia O'Sullivan always ran her warmups clockwise. But then she was probably doing that partly to intimidate everyone else

She probably wasn't using lane 1 either. And even if she was, most upstanding people would recognize her and stay the hell out of her way.

Chivito550

I tried to dig through pages and pages to find the answer to this, but no joy. What autumn marathon are you targeting? Dublin, or somewhere abroad?

Krusty_Clown

Chivito550 wrote: »

I tried to dig through pages and pages to find the answer to this, but no joy. What autumn marathon are you targeting? Dublin, or somewhere abroad?

I'm doing Frankfurt marathon, which is on the 26th October (the day before Dublin marathon). I've done Dublin the last six years in a row (either racing or pacing), so felt like it was time for a change. The fact that the route is changing this year to accommodate LUAS works helped cement the decision. My only regret is that I got a national bronze medal last year (M40), and wouldn't have minded trying to improve on that this time around, but fingers crossed, I'll be in a position to have another pop next year.

Krusty_Clown

Wednesday: 5 miles recovery + 11 miles steady
Thursday: 4 Miles recovery + pacing the Wicklow fit4life 5k @6 minute/mile
Friday: 5 Miles recovery with strides + suckage

Got an easy 5 miles done on Wednesday before meeting Neil for a pretty tasty hilly 11 miles, to top out at 16 miles for the day. Thursday did an easy recovery run, as the legs were feeling a little ropey and then headed to Shanganagh Park to help out with some pacing for the Fit4life 5k, at 6 minute mile. Had a few runners at the start, but they largely all drifted ahead or drifted behind, so finished up pretty close to target (18:36) and legged it off afterwards, as we had plans to go rock-climbing (which didn't happen). Friday was an early morning 5 mile recovery run, where the legs were still feeling pretty stiff, but shook 'em out with a couple of strides in preparation for Saturday's race.

In the evening, headed off for a couple of hours of rock-climbing (bouldering) in Gravity climbing centre (ok, not ideal pre-race prep), and towards the end of the night, dropped to the soft matting from about 5/6 feet - something I'd do pretty often. This time though I felt something jar in my back near the spinal region, and immediately felt some pain. Within 20 minutes I couldn't straighten my back and knew that I'd herniated a disc again. I held-up some hope that it might be ok in the morning, and I'd be good for the race, but a painful sleepless night put paid to any thoughts of running and in the morning headed to the GP for some anti-imflamms and valium. Last time this happened I had to take 9 days off, but I'm hoping it's not as severe this time around and fingers crossed will be running again mid-week and ok to line up for Athlone Half next Saturday. So for the time being, time to put the feet up and enjoy a beer.

Oregano_State

Ouch! Bad luck. Enjoy your well-earned few days off.

menoscemo

Sorry to hear about that KC. Isn't that the race you have PB'ed in a few years in a row?
I was in O'briens in the week and they have both Founders centenial IPA and Kwak both on special Offer. Both are delicious, not sure which I prefer. Have you tried either?

BTW I hope you are not planning on taking the beer, valium and anti inflammatories all at the same time

Krusty_Clown

menoscemo wrote: »

we've
BTW I hope you are not planning on taking the beerw, valium and anti inflammatories all at the same time

Too late Niall, too late! When you get a two day hiatus, you gotta grasp it with both hands! This is my last weekend of beer before the marathon, so I'm not going to let some stoopiid Valium get in the way of a good tiMq@#$!.. ..

dukeraoul

Get well soon KC - we need you to lead the line in Frankfurt!

menoscemo

menoscemo wrote: »

Sorry to hear about that KC. Isn't that the race you have PB'ed in a few years in a row?
I was in O'briens in the week and they have both Founders centenial IPA and Kwak both on special Offer. Both are delicious, not sure which I prefer. Have you tried either?

BTW I hope you are not planning on taking the beer, valium and anti inflammatories all at the same time

Oops, noticed my previous post was messed up. (I promise I wasn't on the beer and valium).
Fixed now!!

Itziger

Didn't realise guys could take Valium. Maybe it's just male runners.

Just checked a recipe there. Beer with anti-inflammatories and valium. Sounds fairly straightforward.

On a slightly more serious note; hope it proves to be one of those little rests you come back stronger from.

Krusty_Clown

dukeraoul wrote: »

Get well soon KC - we need you to lead the line in Frankfurt!

Staying in front of you, is fast becoming my number one concern!

Meno wrote:

I was in O'briens in the week and they have both Founders centenial IPA and Kwak both on special Offer. Both are delicious, not sure which I prefer. Have you tried either?

They're both fantastic beers, and if you had to choose between them, it'd be really tough. I'm kind of reaching saturation point with very hoppy IPA-type beers these days, so personally I'd go for the kwak. I'm enjoying a nice little Belgian myself too at the moment.

menoscemo

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

They're both fantastic beers, and if you had to choose between them, it'd be really tough. I'm kind of reaching saturation point with very hoppy IPA-type beers these days, so personally I'd go for the kwak. I'm enjoying a nice little Belgian myself too at the moment.

Naturally I had 2 bottles of each :pac:

drinking 6.2% beer on top of valium eh?