Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Dory Dory

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Inevitable! How will I know I'm going through 'the change'? A general sense of dissatisfaction...of feeling only 33% complete? A compulsion to surround myself with rubber? Lock laces?

Don't knock rubber til you've tried it!!

P.S. - As always, top notch stuff going on over here.

Kurt Godel

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Inevitable! How will I know I'm going through 'the change'? A general sense of dissatisfaction...of feeling only 33% complete? A compulsion to surround myself with rubber? Lock laces?

You'll know when your primary source of athletic improvement is opening your wallet You're some way off that yet!

Happy Xmas!

Krusty_Clown

Wow, it must be xmas, with all the foreign cousins visiting! Time to break out the sherry and tin of USA assorted biscuits. Merry xmas to you all, and may it mark the beginning of a most productive running/cycling/swimming 2015!

Dory Dory

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Wow, it must be xmas, with all the foreign cousins visiting! Time to break out the sherry and tin of USA assorted biscuits. Merry xmas to you all, and may it mark the beginning of a most productive running/cycling/swimming 2015!

Merry Christmas to you too, Krusty (and to everyone else on Boards!). Not sure if you're doing Donadea 50k, but I'll be there with bells on, so maybe I'll see you in February!!!

Krusty_Clown

Dory Dory wrote: »

Merry Christmas to you too, Krusty (and to everyone else on Boards!). Not sure if you're doing Donadea 50k, but I'll be there with bells on, so maybe I'll see you in February!!!

I may not be competing (as the focus will be 5ks for the foreseeable future), but will most assuredly visit to spectate and lend a hand (if Rambo6 needs it) and join you for some post-race beverages.

Krusty_Clown

Tuesday 23rd December: 10 miles easy
A pain in the ar7e being one of the few people still working in the office, but got out for a nice wild run in the hills, up around Johnny Foxes. Hitting the top of the climb, the weather was really wild, but it suited the mood just fine. Roads a little dangerous with stoopid drivers being arseholes, but you'll have that around christmas.
Summary: 10 miles @8:18/mile

Wednesday: 9 miles easy + 2.5 miles recovery
Had limited time before the annual pilgrimage to the 40 foot for a brief dip, in the freezing icy waters, so just about managed a nice 9 mile hilly run around The Scalp and Carrigologan. After the swim (and a couple of post-swim refreshment pints, managed another couple of miles before heading for xmas dinner at my sisters).
Summary: 9 Hilly miles @7:26 + 2.5 miles @7:26

Thursday: Goal mile + 5 mile hill/trail run
After way too much food on xmas eve (with accompanying wine, beer and whiskey), got out of bed with a durty hangover and jogged over to Shanganagh Park, with a view offering a helping hand at the inaugural goal mile, which Beepbeep was putting together. Arrived over a little after 9am (despite being the closest, I'm always last to arrive in the park), to find Beepbeep and some other volunteers disappearing into the distance. I figured they were handing out the marshaling roles so jogged down to them, only to find that they were getting ready to kick off a 9am race. With only 1/2 mile jog in the legs, I whipped off the jacket, just in time for the official starter pistol. Legs (and brain) really hadn't woken up yet, and immediately my achilles wasn't thanking me for the cold start. Was taking it easy/steady for the first stretch, but after 1/2 mile the muscles eased out a bit and picked up the pace to finish in 5:2x. Hung around for the rest of the races and it was great to see an inaugural event doing so well. It's a great route and definitely worth a proper blast another time (though I daresay I will forever be slightly hungover on xmas morning).

Got the christmas dinner stuck in the oven, and readied myself for the annual family man vs machine race up to the top of Carrigologan. I set off on foot, with a brief headstart, before the family departed shortly afterwards in the car. After the morning's impromptu mile race, the hammies were feeling particularly jelly-like, so I opted for the shortest (but steepest) route to the top of Carrigologan, and arrived at the peak a good 5 minutes ahead of the family. A few minutes of photos and mick-acting and headed back down at an easy cautious canter. Human - 2, Car - 0.

Friday: 14 miles easy
Toyed with the idea of hitting the Streets of Wicklow 5k, but was a little worried about the hamstrings after the previous day's antics, so opted instead to strike off ecolii's second continuity session - 90 - 120 minutes steady. TRR and 'he whose name must not be spoken' were headed to the Phoenix Park, so it was great to jump in with them and get the miles ticked off before heading off to Roscommon. It was great to catch-up with TRR and DrQ and despite the cold, the miles ticked off in rapid succession.
Summary: 14 miles @7:02/mile

Saturday: Cold 10 mile easy run
The obligatory Stephen's Day pints in Roscommon, and the run was delayed until the afternoon, which suited, as some of the frost had melted away. I hit the minor roads and bothrins and made one bad judgement call heading up a minor road past a halting site. Instead of turning around when I heard a dog's bark echoed by a couple of other mutts, I kept going and was soon the target of three mean terriers. 'Three' seems to be the magic number. One terrier on it's own you can chase away without any great effort. Two of them you have to stand-off and be quite cautious. But when there's three, they seem to have some level of pack bravado and will quite willingly go for you. I turned to face them and gradually walked backwards, but eventually, they came in for the attack, and two of them earned a well-deserved kick, before the third one backed off and I managed to gradually put some distance between us, still jogging backwards, keeping a constant eye on them. Lucky they all came at me from the one side instead of trying to surround me, or I'd be mincemeat. Was a little leery for another few minutes until I had put some decent distance between us, but still salvaged a nice run, despite the momentary fear/adrenaline kick.
Summary: 10 miles @7:31

Sunday: 9 Very icy miles
Conditions in Roscommon had really deteriorated, so had little choice but to take it very easy. Wanted to head to Moate Park, where I thought the trails would be clear of ice, but the road to get there looked pretty lethal, so I just stuck to the neighborhoods and estates around Roscommon (which weren't much better).
Summary: 9 miles @8:45/mile

Monday: 6 tired miles
Drove across the country on icy roads to attend a funeral and then back home. Knackered by the time I got home and feeling like I was harboring a growing chest infection but still felt the compulsion to get out for a few miles, so ticked off 6 slow, slow miles, @8:34/mile

Tuesday: Failed session
Roads and pavements still icy, but with a cross country race this weekend, had to try and get another of ecolii's continuity sessions ticked off early in the week. Made my way gingerly to the cinder track, which fortunately was largely ice-free (except for the shaded corner, and was happy to see a few other runners thumping out some laps. Unfortunately didn't go as well for me, as I managed to get through the first set (with some difficulty) before calling it a day as I started into the second set. I could tell that my HR was running much higher than it should be, even at 5k/10k pace, so continuing the session would have done more harm than good and would most certainly have resulted in the chest infection bedding in. I contemplated just running the remaining sets at a hard pace, but when the workout on the watch diverted from the plan (I hadn't set it up correctly), I took it as a sign that it wasn't meant to be, and instead just stretched the run out to 10 miles.
Summary: 10 miles @7:30

Wednesday: 10 miles easy
Met up with Neil, and took in a nice loop over Killiney Hill and the 40 foot, before heading back via Ballybrack. Company really does help the miles tick off. Total for the year - 3,961 (just under 11 miles per day). Won't aim for much more than that next year.

Thursday: 15 miles very easy
A late night at home with most of the family, (during which time I tried to finish off all of the remaining beer in the house (lest I be temped during rehab January!)), but managed to climb out of the bed at 7:30 to wolf down a bagel and some coffee before hitting the road. Joined up with Neil and we met up with a couple more of the Bray folks for a very enjoyable easy run around Enniskerry and Bray, followed by some coffee and no cake. Turned down the offers of lifts home, to get a couple more easy miles (with the wind at my back), to wrap up 15 miles and a good start to the year. Arrived home to a bleeding nipple (don't think that's ever happened to me before), suggesting that redemption January is hitting just in time. Time to go back to Myfitness pal, and get down to race weight for Ballycotton.
Summary: 15 miles @7:49/mile

yaboya1

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Thursday: 15 miles very easy

Already top of the 1000 mile challenge table for 2015.
Would you not let somebody else have the glory for just one day?? :pac:

Krusty_Clown

yaboya1 wrote: »

Already top of the 1000 mile challenge table for 2015.
Would you not let somebody else have the glory for just one day?? :pac:

I would, if they just ran further than me. Hadn't intended on running that far, but once I've decided something, I find it very hard to change my own mind (bloody nips and all!).

Krusty_Clown

Friday 2nd: 5 mile easy run @7:25/mile

Saturday: Wicklow Masters XC
I don't have any fond memories from running cross country. I was trying to put my finger on why I dislike XC so much, and I think it's down to running at other people's paces. On the road, over a fixed distance, I have a target in mind... I have a plan. But when it comes to the mud, I seem to be running at the whim of others, trying to match somebody else's pace and strategy, and 90% of the time, it results in suffering. The field for this race was pretty much the same field as the senior XC race, albeit without a sprinkling of youngsters, including the winner of the Senior title, so I predicted that the outcome of this race would largely be the same as the senior race, except we'd all be bumped up a spot. Last year I came 2nd, when the legendary Mick Byrne wasn't in attendance, but this year he was back and having beaten me pretty comfortably in the seniors, I expected a similar outcome in this race. Defeatist? I suppose there's an element of that, but the best thing I could say about this race was, that once it was done I could look forward to 9 months without any cross country on the horizon. And so I lined up with the other runners, thankful that the morning's rain had broken, leaving behind it a quagmire of mud and pools.

I'd decided that the best potential outcome would be to leave DL to run his way to victory and to try to hold on to MB as long as possible, and if the opportunity arose, well.... you never know.. When the gun went, DL forged ahead, with 5 victory laps ahead of him, and I settled in with MB with a couple of other runners in close pursuit. Gradually a gap opened, and eventually it was myself and MB battling for second and third place, with Abhainn just behind in striking distance. Unlike the senior race, the ground was soft and muddy, and with each lap, it was getting progressively worse. I was holding onto MB a little better on this occasion, (probably down to a more conservative run on his part), but I had the time to watch his form over the muddy stretches. While he seemed to skip over the mud, I seemed to sink into it with every stride, and every knee lift was a chore, tiring me with every step. I wondered was it purely down to weight differences, or is XC something you can get good at, purely by spending a lot of time in the mud. At times, I opted to take the long route, running on the uncomfortable gravel path in my 12mm spikes, rather than face the deepening mud and on those occasions I'd bridge the gap with MB, only to lose a sizable distance on him again crossing the mud to get to the next turn. It was on one of these detours (around the 4th of 5 laps) where the brain ultimately packed it in, and decided that I was going to finish in the third place. I had once more taken the longer route following the gravel path, but this time, I just couldn't close the distance on MB and knew that the battle for 2nd was over. Great support from the women's team and various spectators, but nothing could lift the spirit when the mental battle has been lost. Crossed the finish line in 3rd place around 15 seconds down on MB, glad that it was over and that I could finally return to where I truly belong - the roads. I'm hoping that I can avoid any further mud for the rest of the year (and have made the decisive move to wash the mud from my spikes), but there is still a small risk that this most abhorrent of disciplines may come back to haunt me one more time, if the Sli Cualann team is short for the masters. Urgh...
Summary: 6 muddy kms, in 21:42, @5:50/mile

Sunday: 17 mile easy run
No rest for the very wicked, as I met up with Beepbeep at 8:35am, who to his great credit had traveled from Wicklow and had already ticked off a number of miles. After a couple more miles of chat, we picked up Neil, and proceeded around a hilly but enjoyable loop around Windgates and Kilmacanogue. Eventually the chatter died, as I suspect we all felt a little tired in the later miles with lack of sleep, races and christmas over-indulgence catching up with us, but we managed to rally for a strong finish, full of life, pace and chatter once more.
Summary: 17 miles in 2:04, @7:21/mile

Dubgal72

Well done, especially for a non-XC loving roadie...but are you saying that Tuam on the 8th February is still only pencilled in??? Get the pen out, don't clean the spikes just yet

TRR_the_turd

I hear you on the XC. Every time I run one I vow never to run one again. Thankfully I'm not down for Dublin masters this weekend and I hope to keep my retirement in place for the foreseeable future. At least your run was on a Saturday. What compounds my hatred for XC is an afternoon start on a Sunday! You're sitting around all weekend with the prospect of doing something you fecking hate. At least you could have a few beers Saturday night!

Krusty_Clown

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Well done, especially for a non-XC loving roadie...

but are you saying that Tuam on the 8th February is still only pencilled in???

Get the pen out, don't clean the spikes just yet

If I can't see it, then it doesn't exist. La, la, la.... Can't hear you... No XC races here..

TRR_the_turd wrote:

I hear you on the XC. Every time I run one I vow never to run one again. Thankfully I'm not down for Dublin masters this weekend and I hope to keep my retirement in place for the foreseeable future. At least your run was on a Saturday. What compounds my hatred for XC is an afternoon start on a Sunday! You're sitting around all weekend with the prospect of doing something you fecking hate. At least you could have a few beers Saturday night!

If the good lord in his infinite wisdom had meant for us to run in the mud, he wouldn't have invented steam-rollers. Yeah, having the race on the Saturday was a nice surprise. Having said that, if the race had been on the Sunday, I would have come second, (as Mick would have been away on holidays!).

Krusty_Clown

Well, after finally taking some time to flick through the calendar and look at potential races and how the year might map out, I realized there was no time like the present to kick off a new training phase and what better time than the first full week in January. Ecolii's continuity training plan has done absolute wonders to keep the fitness up and the motivation keen. I'm not feeling particularly sharp at the moment, but that's a good thing, as I want to feel sharp towards the end of my training program, rather than at the start. I have never been this fit and healthy starting a new training phase, and that's largely down to the those sessions So if you've just hit your race target and are wondering what to do until the next chapter, you should give serious consideration to Luke's sessions.

The plan for this year is not dissimilar to last year, in that I will follow the 18/19 week Magness 5k plan, hope to get as close to 15:30 as I possibly can (lofty goal, but I gotta think big) and then target a half marathon, before moving onto the big Kahuna. A sub-goal is to compete in some provincial and national road (and track) events, so the national road relays, 5k, 10k, 10 mile (if there is one), half marathon (if I can bring myself to participate in the R&R sh1te), and marathon, as well as the 400/800 etc at the graded meets. But back to today. It's a year since I started this plan last year and I think the experience of having completed it once before will stand to me. This time round I'm starting in week three, as the ecolii sessions lend themselves very well to the Magness base building phase (particularly when you back them up, (a I have been) with 70 miles per week).

Monday 5th: 6 miles with 8 x 10 sec hill sprints + 5.6 mile recovery
Still on the prowl for a decent hill that isn't too far from work, I remembered the start of the 'Run the Line' race, and it's concrete/tarmac road up the mountain, at the back of Lamb Doyle's pub. A decent 3 mile uphill climb took me to the base of the climb and soon afterwards I launched into the repeats, with a generous 2:30 complete recovery. At just 10 seconds per sprint, you don't ever really get an opportunity to get wrecked, but it's a rather unusual feeling that snakes through the body as you complete each sprint, kind of like getting flushed with go-slow juice. Also muscles that don't normally take much abuse (like the ham-strings) suddenly start complaining in new and different ways. Not the hardest of physiological sessions, it is at least physically demanding and leaves a mark long after the sprints are done. Later on, I headed out for a 5.5 mile easy run, just to ease out the muscles.

Tuesday: 9.6 miles + 5 miles recovery
Body still a little tender from the hill sprints (and XC), headed out for a nice lunch run, and included the strides (which were pretty uncomfortable). Followed up with an easy 5 mile recovery run.

Wednesday: 4.2 miles + 9.2 mile windy lunch run

Thursday: 10 miles incl 8 mile progression run
Hectic work day and only had an hour between meetings, which doing some simple arithmetic meant there was no way I could run 9 miles, get changed twice and wash, and still make my next meeting. To compound the situation, the Garmin Connect Workouts site was down, so I couldn't create a workout for the run. I resigned myself to doing an 8 mile easy run, but just as I headed out the door, I said 'screw it' and decided to do the progression run anyway. Still pumped with adrenaline, the first couple of miles were a little too fast, and without the watch beeping to tell me to slow down, I ran most of the miles too quick.
6:58/7:25/6:52/6:32/6:11/6:01/5:52/5:27 + cool-down: 6:18/6:25

Friday: 5 mile easy lunch run + 5.5 mile run home

Saturday: 14 miles easy with strides
Tried to jump in on the bandwagon of other's long runs, but between transport and children's needs, it just didn't work out, so just hit the road over Killiney Hill in the direction of Dun Laoghaire. Was very glad to hit Sallynoggin (not a sentence you hear uttered very often) as it marked the turnabout point and an end to the strong head-winds. Got my strides ticked off too, so was happy to get my long ('ish) run done on a Saturday for a change.

Sunday: 10 miles recovery
Headed out to meet Neil at 9:30am, and we also bumped into one of the club stalwarts, so we headed out on a nice easy loop. Worked out perfectly, as the 8 min/mile pace was just what I needed. I arrived home after 9.52 miles, feeling much recovered, and stuck on the coffee machine. Try as I might, I just couldn't get it out of my head - the niggling thought just wouldn't go away. So I turned the watch back on and jogged up the road and back again, for .50 miles, to round off the 10 miles. Crazy? Maybe. But it's this 'twitch' that keep me ticking over, all year round. 84.66 miles for the week.

Oregano_State

You're right to take generous recovery with the hill sprints. 2:30 sounds OK to me. How steep is the hill? You should be able to maintain form close enough to how you'd run on the flat.

You could think about doing a few drills and stretches as part of the warm-up to help with technique and mobility. A few lunges and squats to open up the hips and flight-check the hammies usually do the trick for me.

Best of luck with the cycle, and I like the 15:30 target; go big or go home I say!

Krusty_Clown

Monday: 9 miles with 15 mins @tempo + 4 mile recovery
Cool and chilly, but the wind seemed to have died down, so headed down to the cinder track with just a loose idea of what splits I should be running for the tempo section. The plan was around 5:37/mile (which is 41 seconds for 200m, and 1:23 for 400m, but beyond that I had no idea). As always, no clue what pace I set off at, until I hit the 200m mark (approximation on the cinder track) and was surprised to see 37 seconds, so way too fast. Tried to reign it in and eventually I thought the numbers started coming back to a more realistic range, and I ignored the watch, just counting laps instead. A quick glance at the watch on the 10th lap, told me that if I picked up the pace, I could get under 15 minutes for the 11 laps, and I foolishly succumbed, crossing the line in 14:57, for a 5:28/mile pace for the 15 minutes. In hindsight, it was dumb, as this is the first of many tempo sessions, and It'll take will-power not to continue to try to stay at this pace for future sessions. Arrived back at work, just as the clock ticked over 1:00:03 for 9.01 miles, so the OCD gods were also happy.

A very frustrating day/evening in work, and I decided it would be better off for everyone, if I ticked off a few calm-down miles before heading home, so I vented some frustration on the pavements on the road to Foxrock, before returning to work a little calmer, with 4 extremely cold miles ticked off.

dublin runner

Great too see you are approaching the Magness Plan again. I mentioned to Ecolii that I may start this plan in March after essentially base-building for 10+ weeks. With the benefit of hindsight (having already completed the plan) is there any thoughts/advice to can give to someone looking to start it in 6 or so weeks? Apologies for the open-ended nature of the question! I know my main weakness is in the shorter distances so I am a tad bit apprehensive about adapting over to such a plan having never approached anything like it.

Krusty_Clown

dublin runner wrote: »

Great too see you are approaching the Magness Plan again. I mentioned to Ecolii that I may start this plan in March after essentially base-building for 10+ weeks. With the benefit of hindsight (having already completed the plan) is there any thoughts/advice to can give to someone looking to start it in 6 or so weeks? Apologies for the open-ended nature of the question! I know my main weakness is in the shorter distances so I am a tad bit apprehensive about adapting over to such a plan having never approached anything like it.

Are you considering going through the full 21 weeks, including the 8 weeks of base building? If not (i.e. if you think your current base building will cover you for the Magness plan), you'd want to make sure that your development is at a point where you could consider starting the next phase (pre-competition). More specifically:

• Comfortably running 80-90 miles per week
• Comfortably running 30 mins at tempo (split into 2 x 15 mins)
• Incorporating some hill and flat sprints

Can't see that much of the above would be beyond you, so might be worth your while just incorporating some of the hill and flat sprints into your existing base building plan. After that, your typical distance running regime would have you covered. The first couple of weeks of the pre-competition period would see you doing some 10k reps and 5k paced reps, but with decent recovery, so manageable.

Having come from a similar background to your own (all long distance), I did find that my legs took quite a battering, and I introduced some niggles that didn't go away until long after the plan was done. So I'm not sure if there's anything you can do at this point to prepare yourself for that kind of battering (e.g. incorporating some faster strides at 3k -> 1 mile pace). Beyond that, it's about scheduling. It's a 7 day a week plan (with 2-3 doubles per week), so it's just a case of trying to fit everything in. I juggled the workouts around on a weekly basis, and even managed to incorporate some races (probably too many races), but it's certainly a demanding plan from a scheduling perspective.

dublin runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Are you considering going through the full 21 weeks, including the 8 weeks of base building? If not (i.e. if you think your current base building will cover you for the Magness plan), you'd want to make sure that your development is at a point where you could consider starting the next phase (pre-competition). More specifically:

• Comfortably running 80-90 miles per week
• Comfortably running 30 mins at tempo (split into 2 x 15 mins)
• Incorporating some hill and flat sprints

Can't see that much of the above would be beyond you, so might be worth your while just incorporating some of the hill and flat sprints into your existing base building plan. After that, your typical distance running regime would have you covered. The first couple of weeks of the pre-competition period would see you doing some 10k reps and 5k paced reps, but with decent recovery, so manageable.

Having come from a similar background to your own (all long distance), I did find that my legs took quite a battering, and I introduced some niggles that didn't go away until long after the plan was done. So I'm not sure if there's anything you can do at this point to prepare yourself for that kind of battering (e.g. incorporating some faster strides at 3k -> 1 mile pace). Beyond that, it's about scheduling. It's a 7 day a week plan (with 2-3 doubles per week), so it's just a case of trying to fit everything in. I juggled the workouts around on a weekly basis, and even managed to incorporate some races (probably too many races), but it's certainly a demanding plan from a scheduling perspective.

Plenty of food for thought there, much appreciated. The 21 week plan is a big investment so I don't want to even attempt it without having my eyes fully opened to it's demands. I can handle the mileage but it's the intensity that would be problem. I may simply not be strong enough for it.

Lastly! I cannot remember but did you go straight into a marathon specific block for Frankfurt after completing the 5k plan? If so, how long? Thanks again.

Krusty_Clown

dublin runner wrote: »

Plenty of food for thought there, much appreciated. The 21 week plan is a big investment so I don't want to even attempt it without having my eyes fully opened to it's demands. I can handle the mileage but it's the intensity that would be problem. I may simply not be strong enough for it.

Lastly! I cannot remember but did you go straight into a marathon specific block for Frankfurt after completing the 5k plan? If so, how long? Thanks again.

Part of my dissatisfaction with last year, is how I transitioned from 5k to marathon and failed to really leverage the speed gains I had trained hard to earn in the early part of the year. This time around I hope to shorten the marathon specific period to 12 weeks, and inject a proper transition somewhere in the middle. I really don't think there's anything in the Magness plan that is beyond you, and without the base building phase, you'd be looking at a 13-14 week training investment, which isn't quite as lengthy a span.

dublin runner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Part of my dissatisfaction with last year, is how I transitioned from 5k to marathon and failed to really leverage the speed gains I had trained hard to earn in the early part of the year. This time around I hope to shorten the marathon specific period to 12 weeks, and inject a proper transition somewhere in the middle. I really don't think there's anything in the Magness plan that is beyond you, and without the base building phase, you'd be looking at a 13-14 week training investment, which isn't quite as lengthy a span.

Great stuff, thanks. 13-14 weeks would be ideal. It may give me a chance at the end of the year to right a few wrongs in the marathon!

wrstan

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Saturday: 14 miles easy with strides
Tried to jump in on the bandwagon of other's long runs, but between transport and children's needs, it just didn't work out, so just hit the road over Killiney Hill in the direction of Dun Laoghaire. Was very glad to hit Sallynoggin (not a sentence you hear uttered very often) as it marked the turnabout point and an end to the strong head-winds. Got my strides ticked off too, so was happy to get my long ('ish) run done on a Saturday for a change.

Saturday afternoon, sitting inside the local SFO (street food outlet!) gazing out over my wings and sweet potato fries, thinking to myself this hurricane is crayzeee, I'll never get to run in this, when all of a sudden I see a local clown plow his way through the breeze, head down, cans on, focussed as ever.

Damn you I thought! So I went home, shamed faced, waited just long enough for my SF to digest, laced up and clocked 10 fantastic miles. Thank goodness for resilient clowns I thought!

ECOLII

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

So I'm not sure if there's anything you can do at this point to prepare yourself for that kind of battering (e.g. incorporating some faster strides at 3k -> 1 mile pace). Beyond that, it's about scheduling. It's a 7 day a week plan (with 2-3 doubles per week), so it's just a case of trying to fit everything in. I juggled the workouts around on a weekly basis, and even managed to incorporate some races (probably too many races), but it's certainly a demanding plan from a scheduling perspective.

I would agree with G regarding the base phase should be fine the only bit of advice would be to prep the body to be able to handle the training with a small sprinkling of prep work.

Great article here regarding:

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/how-to-build-a-better-running-engine

dublin runner

ECOLII wrote: »

I would agree with G regarding the base phase should be fine the only bit of advice would be to prep the body to be able to handle the training with a small sprinkling of prep work.

Great article here regarding:

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/how-to-build-a-better-running-engine

Really interesting article. Never once considered downhill sprints. Nice way to possibly spice up the old bread and butter easy run.

All the best with the plan. Will be following with interest.

ECOLII

dublin runner wrote: »

Really interesting article. Never once considered downhill sprints. Nice way to possibly spice up the old bread and butter easy run.

Be very careful with down hill running it's something that I wouldn't be a huge fan of doing too much of this just because of the high injury risk

Also with the nervous system development it is one that should be aimed to do completely fresh, extremely long recoveries and pull the plug as soon as you start to tire (effectively ignore everything your gut instinct as a distance runner tells you )

The CNS exhausts very quickly so as such can be very easily overloaded and once you do this continuing on is only going to increase illness and injury risk so its an element you have to be very smart about.

dna_leri

ECOLII wrote: »

Be very careful with down hill running it's something that I wouldn't be a huge fan of doing too much of this just because of the high injury risk

.

I would go further than that, Do not do downhill sprints.
I do not know anyone who does them as part of their normal training, from sprinters to distance runners.

Below is an extract from Magness on hill sprints:

"From the speed of things, the first step is hill sprints... Start out with a low number (4-5) and progress upwards each week until 8-10 is reached. Once this goal is accomplished , its time to convert that speed to flat sprint speed."

Magness, Steve (2014-02-16). The Science of Running: How to find your limit and train to maximize your performance (Kindle Locations 7010-7012). Origin Press. Kindle Edition.

The rest of the article seems fine.

ECOLII

dna_leri wrote: »

I would go further than that, Do not do downhill sprints.
I do not know anyone who does them as part of their normal training, from sprinters to distance runners.

Below is an extract from Magness on hill sprints:

"From the speed of things, the first step is hill sprints... Start out with a low number (4-5) and progress upwards each week until 8-10 is reached. Once this goal is accomplished , its time to convert that speed to flat sprint speed."

Magness, Steve (2014-02-16). The Science of Running: How to find your limit and train to maximize your performance (Kindle Locations 7010-7012). Origin Press. Kindle Edition.

The rest of the article seems fine.

We were only discussing this earlier I think the big issue is that downhill is open to interpretation based on the article, I would have no problem with it if the reference is a minimal gentle decline however if you are coming off the end of a hill run then you are going to do yourself major damage.

In terms of doing these I think it can be quite common with sprinters (especially on the continent when you see the inclined tartan strips beside some stadiums, I would tend to see a number of sprinters and middle distance used these however the gradient is fairly low to the point when you are questioning whether to classify it as a hill.

oldrunner

Old (and extremely cheesy) Pete Magill video on hill sessions. There's some good information in here but be warned about the quality of 'acting'. Just ignore the advice on downhill sprinting - really risky and not worth the potential gains.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDcXPIT380k

Chivito550

dublin runner wrote: »

Really interesting article. Never once considered downhill sprints. Nice way to possibly spice up the old bread and butter easy run.

All the best with the plan. Will be following with interest.

Can't advise about anything else, but steer well clear of downhill sprinting. You're asking for trouble.

Netwerk Errer

Chivito550 wrote: »

Can't advise about anything else, but steer well clear of downhill sprinting. You're asking for trouble.

Yeah, The loading isn't natural if you're not in complete control. Plus, I'm not sure you would actually hit a higher top-speed sprinting downhill with all the coordination flaws that would be going on.

Another way of getting some overspeed training in would be to use the wind to your advantage. Doing sprints with the wind behind you would offer similar benefits without all the dangers of doing downhill sprints.

I'm not sure about this but someone with a bit more knowledge might chip in. Would periodising sprints have a similar effect? Say, you start out doing sprints in flats on the grass, then progress to the track and then finally add spikes into the equation.

Krusty_Clown

Tuesday 13th: 5 mile recovery run + 9 mile really really slow run
Swapped my runs around so I could have a bit of company during my lunch run. And then the snow came down.... With 9 miles in the plan, and the conditions being far too icy for my motorcycle, figured I'd kill two birds and run home, taking a long route by Stepaside. Icy everywhere, so had to slow to a crawl most of the time. Would've been better off on a dreadmill, but I'd have had to run to get there. Funny running through Foxrock, where the kids asked me was it ok if they could throw snow-balls at me. A different class of hooligan from the kids in Ballyogan!
Summary: 5 miles @7:58/mile + 9 miles @8:59/mile

Wednesday: 5.5 miles with 10x10 sec hill sprints
Long, long work day meant getting out for my hill sprint session just before 9pm, with a gale blowing and the rain sheeting down. Had a last minute spark of genius, and headed to a spot around 2 miles from home, which was largely well-lit, steady climb, and a small bit sheltered from the uphill head-wind, but unfortunately consisting of tough concrete. Still, you got to make sacrifices on days like this (to the weather gods). Reps were grand, but I'm sure I looked very strange, sprinting up and ambling down a rural country hill. Running takes us down some strange dark paths.
Summary: 5.5 in around an hour

Thursday: 6.4 mile recovery+ 4 miles steady
Crazy work continues, so just nipping in the miles whenever I could.

Friday: 5 miles easy + 9 mile run-mute home

Saturday: 13 miles + 4 x 30 sec surges

Sunday: 10 mile hilly trail recovery run

Monday: 11 miles with 2 x 10 mins@tempo + 5 mile recovery
Plan called for a split 20 minute tempo (2 mins rest), but figured I'd run them a little quicker, to get a little closer to Raheny pace. Ran the first one a little too close to race pace (3k in just under 10 minutes), so suffered a little for the second round, covering the 3k in around 10:15. Increase in mileage this week and another busy work week, so headed back out in the evening for some easy recovery miles, @8:33/mile
Summary: 11 miles + 5 miles