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Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    Congrats Krusty, really looking forward to your race report. particularly looking forward to your insights into the huge improvements you ve made - weight?, the cycling and swimming added in?, the hunger the break gave you?

    id say you ve some sore head right now!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,096 ✭✭✭--amadeus--


    Brilliant result, congrats!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭MCOS


    Well done KC, thats really good running out of you and great attitude too. Yep sub 3 now within your grasp and the confidence to boot that you can do it... nice feeling I'd say ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Previous PB: 3:22:50 (Dublin '08)
    New PB: 3:00:50 (Berlin '09)
    Half Splits: 1:30:43 / 1:30:07
    Pace (Garmin): 6:51 / Pace McMillan (6:54)
    Average Heart Rate: 161

    Just arrived back from Berlin. Shopping's done, dinner's in the oven, and the kids are hugged, there's a cold one beside me, so it's time for dissection.

    Sunday: Got up at 6:30am, and had the tried and tested Weetabix, banana and bagel with Nutella, grabbed a quick shower, and headed out for the two mile walk to the start line. My legs felt tired, which wasn't quite the optimistic note I wanted to start the day with, and I was beginning to regret the hours I spent watching the in-line skating marathon the day before, but I put it down to the usual runner's pre-race jitters. The walk towards the race start was very unusual, as the streets were a mixture of Berliners heading home from a hectic night out, and runners of all shapes and sizes nervously making their way towards the start. My OH was good enough to accompany me on my early morning walk, and even carried my kit bag all of the way.

    A quick note about pace: My plan at the start of the year was to hit around 3:07 for Edinburgh, which would give me a solid platform from which to target a sub-3 in Berlin. Unfortunately, I over-extended myself before Edinburgh and ended up dropping out due to injury. So the plan shifted to targeting Berlin for a 3:07 marathon. Much like my first marathons last year, as the weeks ticked on, my 'comfortable' pace improved, and I found myself adjusting to more aggressive targets. In the last two weeks of training, I gained a lot of confidence from a trio of runs: a 10k time trial in 38:12, a 3x1 mile interval session at 5k pace that felt quite easy, and finally, a 7 mile run with 2 miles at marathon pace, that all helped me move my goal in the right direction. All my race-pace runs had been based on a pace of 7:03/mile, so the leap to 6:51/mile pace wasn't an obvious or easy decision. If I headed out at 6:51 pace, would I blow up after 20 miles and destroy 10 months of hard work? Would I be better off playing it safe, and picking up the pace gradually until vomit o'clock? In the end, I decided to start out at at 7/mile, and see how I felt.

    Then the race began: and all pacing plans were thrown out the window. I lined up with 25 minutes to go, around 150 metres from the start line. The atmosphere was fantastic. No sign of any fellow BAC club runner. A count-down (bang on time of course) and we were off. Sharing the route with 40k other runners was a new experience, as suddenly I was surrounded by thousands of poeple pushing a very hard pace. My first mile was 7:07 because of congestion, so I gradually picked up the pace running a 6:41, to bring my overall pace to 6:51 (don't question the maths!). I kept the pace consistent for the next few miles, and bumped into Mithril, who looked like he really wasn't enjoying the heat (but went on to achieve a superb time).

    The people of Berlin were out in their millions (literally) and they helped distract from the heat, which was becoming a bigger issue as time went on. I made sure to stop at every single water-stop, which was an achievement, as they were approximately every 2.5kms. After a few more miles Rusty Cogs said hello, but it was only a brief exchange, as I had to pull in at another water stop, and didn't see him again for another 10 miles or so. The pace at this stage was comfortable enough, but recognizable as being faster than I was used to over longer distances. I hit half way on 1:31 and wondered at this stage whether I should slow a little and aim for a good finish, but as the miles ticked on, the pace didn't drop, so I kept at it. I met up with Rusty again at around 18 miles, and we ran together for the next few miles. I was glad to see the 32km marker, as it meant we had moved beyond the normal training runs, and I could start counting down the miles.

    The last 5 miles: My overall pace had dropped to 6:52/mile, and I resolved to pick it up a little, and offer myself a chance at hitting a sub-3. Rusty and I got separated at the next water-stop, so I was to run the last 5 miles on my own, which was just as well, as with the heat and lack of shade they were to be tough miles, and the battle to the finish was going to be tougher psychologically than physically. Even at this stage of the race athlete-dodging was the name of the game, as others slowed to a walk and made it difficult to maintain the pace.

    The last mile: As we hit the final straight with around 1.5 miles to go, we could see the Brandenburg gate up ahead of us. I was struggling hard motivationally, but kept on pushing, drawn ever closer to the finish line by the hope that I might have done enough to achieve a sub3 and this became my entire focus over the final stretch. I picked up the pace again for the last stretch and mile 26 was my fastest mile of the race, in 6:38, finishing out the remainder of the race at 6:24/mile. I didn't throw up as I crossed the finish line, but looking at the race video of the finish line, the pain is very obvious!

    So how do I feel about the race?
    Delighted. Not even a little bit disappointed. In fact, I'm almost relieved, as I now still have a target to aim for. I was very happy to see a negative split, and a fast-paced finish. I have proved that I'm in the right ball-park to make a stab at sub-3, and shaving off 50 seconds should be quite achievable. Next time however, I'll be aiming for 2:50. ;)

    Summary: 26.5 miles in 3:00:50. HR=160 (84%)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭Sosa


    Well done Krusty...fantastic....you enjoy the rest !


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,526 ✭✭✭Peckham


    Very well done again KC, and a great positive race report.

    A few questions.....

    Interested to hear that you stopped at the water stations. Did you actually stop/slow to a walk?

    At any point in the race did you think "I'm going to go sub-3", or was it a merely a hope?

    Was it very congested near the finish with lots of sub-3 chasers? Did it make the finish more difficult? Would imagine that Berlin attracts a fair proportion of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭Abhainn


    Great result KC. Good man.
    You've got 10 secs over me now so I must sort that out in 5 weeks.;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    Well done again, great questions from pecks, would like to know the answers to these myself


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭bourne99


    Absolutely superb!! When you mentioned there about the other athletes walking towards the end, you get a real picture of yourself battling onwards, your core fitness shining through. Well done on a great race, and some obviously fantastic training! Now, I have just a question or two..!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    kennyb3 wrote: »
    id say you ve some sore head right now!!
    Head wasn't sore enough, as after some lovely pints with the other Boards runners, I headed off to get some dinner with the OH, but unfortunately, Berlin isn't a city that doesn't sleep, so by the time we found a restaurant willing to serve us food it was 11pm, and by the time dinner was done it was mid-night, and my eyes were closing. So this week I will mostly be catching up on lost time (beer time!).
    kennyb3 wrote: »
    insights into the huge improvements you ve made - weight?, the cycling and swimming added in?, the hunger the break gave you?
    Unfortunately there's no magic elixir. The difference (which I don't see as a huge improvement) is hard work, to the tune of 1,300 miles, run at a considerably faster pace than last year. The weight loss came as a consequence of the running. The injury came as a consequence of too much running (races) and ignoring sage advice. The core work was to help me cope wit the strains of all the extra running. The cycling and swimming was to help me recover from injury (and give me another goal, which I didn't achieve). As I said, I don't see it as a huge or sudden improvement. I see it as linear progression. I was able to run a 3:22 marathon on 40 mpw, and a 3 hour marathon on 55 mpw. Now I just need to figure out what I need to do to run a sub-3 marathon. Probably more mileage, faster, carrying less weight!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    not going to ask how fast could you go but how fast do you think you will go? I knew you were on for a good one when i seen that 10k time trail. fair play delighted for you and to see you get jsut reward!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭MCOS


    Very good report, you could sense your journey from it... nice one Krusty!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭Seres


    great report , you seemed to have a very well controlled race , with such a strong finish sub 3 is defo achieveable , well done again , you were well due a good return on your training :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭another world


    Great run Krusty. Where do you plan on going for your sub-3hr?


  • Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭mithril


    Now I just need to figure out what I need to do to run a sub-3 marathon.

    All you need to do to break 3 hours is run an identical race on a cooler day. Everything I have read, suggests you lose between 1-4% in optimal performance once temperature goes over 20 degrees.You need <1% improvement to go under 3 hours.

    This article looks at the effect using a statistical approach and suggests around 3-4% degradation in the conditions yesterday.

    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18599591


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Peckham wrote: »
    Interested to hear that you stopped at the water stations. Did you actually stop/slow to a walk?
    No, not really, though with the plastic cups it was very difficult to get all of the water in your mouth. Quite a bit went up my nose, which was ok with the water, but not as pleasant with the sports drink. :) I did slow to a walk through one water station, but that was to force myself to drink all the water and take a quick break, as the heat was getting tough to deal with. Throughout the race I took pace breaks, by ducking in behind someone running at a slower pace, and using their pace to force myself to slow down and take an opportunity to recover (I do this in all my races).
    Peckham wrote: »
    At any point in the race did you think "I'm going to go sub-3", or was it a merely a hope?
    LOL. Quite the opposite! I thought I was on sub3 most of the way around! My real aim was to run the race at 6:51 pace, rather than achieve a sub-3 (athough the two are very much inter-twined). Because I was on 6:51 pace the whole way through, I was pretty sure that I was close. Only when I saw the half-way and finish line clocks did I doubt the sub-3. I don't have a 'time' field on my Garmin, as I'm not too hung up about achieving milestone times, more about good personal performances, but at the end of the day I would love to be able to say that I'm a sub-3 runner (my vanity). I didn't take into account my deviation from the race line, or GPS error. After I finished, I looked at the time on the watch and had a brief moment of dissapointment, but that passed rapidly, as I was delighted with my time and I know I couldn't have run 50 seconds quicker, as i left nothing behind. I was completely wrecked afterwards.

    Funny story (which i'll probably regret telling afterwards!): I was in emotional tatters after the race. I mean really wrecked (here's the finish line video if you want to see a grown man on the verge of breakdown!). So anyway, as I headed down the finish chute, I was very much in need of a hug (you had a lucky escape Rusty Cogs!) when this woman walks up to me, arms open. In my bewildered state, I leaned over to give her the much required hug, but she just tied a plastic sheet around my neck. :) I'd say she got that a lot on Sunday!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭asimonov



    Funny story (which i'll probably regret telling afterwards!): I was in emotional tatters after the race. I mean really wrecked (here's the finish line video if you want to see a grown man on the verge of breakdown!). So anyway, as I headed down the finish chute, I was very much in need of a hug (you had a lucky escape Rusty Cogs!) when this woman walks up to me, arms open. In my bewildered state, I leaned over to give her the much required hug, but she just tied a plastic sheet around my neck. :) I'd say she got that a lot on Sunday!

    Hi Krusty,

    Just looking at the video was it that congested the whole way around, or was that just at the end? Was that easy to deal with?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Abhainn wrote: »
    Great result KC. Good man.
    You've got 10 secs over me now so I must sort that out in 5 weeks.;)
    Cool. I eagerly await my new target. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    asimonov wrote: »
    Hi Krusty,

    Just looking at the video was it that congested the whole way around, or was that just at the end? Was that easy to deal with?
    There were 1,186 finishers before me and I finished somewhere around the top 3%. Mithril ran a great race to reach his sub-3 target. He didn't break the top 1,000 finishers. That should give you an idea! Mostly you can run at your own pace, but with a lot of side-stepping. There were a few angry shouts and gentle shoves at some of the water-stations, which I guess is the uglier side of chasing a time. That link of mine has various different points in the race, so you can get more of an idea of the congestion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭Slogger Jogger


    Your training log and your race report are great reads. To see that sort of progression in PB is just fantastic. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I fully expect to be finishing behind you in imra races before long.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭showry


    nice running Krusty, congrats on the PB


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Your training log and your race report are great reads. To see that sort of progression in PB is just fantastic. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I fully expect to be finishing behind you in imra races before long.
    LOL. Thanks for the generous words, but the hills are definitely your domain. Won't stop me from trying though!

    I'm humbled by all the kind words and congrats on my log. It makes me feel like I should go out running. But no running until tomorrow. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Tonight: 4 mile recovery run, at my new pmp - 10min/mile :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    Tonight: 4 mile recovery run, at my new pmp - 10min/mile :)

    Ahem, far be it from me to advise you there kc, but you are about 50 secs too slow in my opinion. Not that I would have any vested interest in say, your Dublin pmp for example ;):)

    hmmm 50 secs is becoming a bit of a common theme :)

    *legs it in full knowledge that krusty can finish a marathon and watch the coronation street omnibus before OI finishes, so he will be caught and given a severe kicking with those big feet)


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Lol. I checked the pace on Mcmillan after making the post and was relieved to see that I was around a minute out. While 10min/mile is fine for now, 9:08min/mile will be a lot more comfortable come race day. What's your target for DCM oi?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭osnola ibax


    Lol. I checked the pace on Mcmillan after making the post and was relieved to see that I was around a minute out. While 10min/mile is fine for now, 9:08min/mile will be a lot more comfortable come race day. What's your target for DCM oi?

    Was 3:45 but I think I've missed too much training so sub4 I think would be the safer more achievable option.

    I've learned a lot of lessons from all this. I don't realistically think I had enough of a running base behind me before undertaking a full marathon so after this I'm gonna concentrate on the shorter stuff and get fitter.

    I think I will be ok for sub 4 though. I really trust my garmin in terms of pacing but I think I will go for the added security of trying to get in on your coatails kc. I'm thinking you could become really important for miles 20 onwards for support to drive us home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭Sosa


    Tonight: 4 mile recovery run, at my new pmp - 10min/mile :)

    How were the legs after the run ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Realistically, if it is a windy day, then jumping behind my coat-tails would offer e a genuine advantage. We could create some kind of conga-line. :)

    As the good book says (and I'm just quoting from memory here): if you follow the course of a pack of marathon runners, the winner will usually be the one who stayed at the back of the pack.

    In Berlin, Haile was constantly surrounded by a squad of pacers or a trio of cars, which i'm sure contributed a slip-streaming effect. I wonder how long before this tactic becomes illegal in races. I mean not everyone gets to bring their own car to the race!


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,528 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    Sosa wrote: »
    How were the legs after the run ?
    Better than I expected. It was pitch black when I went running, and I couldn't see my watch (or the terrain) at all, so the pace was actually dictated by my body and the un-evenness of the fields I was running in. The pace actually felt natural, so obviously the body knows when it's in bad shape, and adjusts appropriately. I still have a bit of stiffness in my quads, but otherwise feeling good. It'll take all of my resolve over the next week or two not to go out and push hard. But my self-inflicted injury and subsequent layoff after my last marathon is still fresh in my mind.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭Sosa


    Better than I expected. It was pitch black when I went running, and I couldn't see my watch (or the terrain) at all, so the pace was actually dictated by my body and the un-evenness of the fields I was running in. The pace actually felt natural, so obviously the body knows when it's in bad shape, and adjusts appropriately. I still have a bit of stiffness in my quads, but otherwise feeling good. It'll take all of my resolve over the next week or two not to go out and push hard. But my self-inflicted injury and subsequent layoff after my last marathon is still fresh in my mind.

    Good man...mind yourself for the next 3/4 weeks.


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