Why I Dislike Hamilton

allybhoy

I personally like Hamilton and was rooting for him to win. However I can understand why some people might dislike him, he is ruthless, determined and is self confident nearly to the point of smugness. Whereas I see these character traits as something to be commended on, others may not. Another thing that slighly "grinds my gears* is the biased coverage that ITV subject us to, however if it was an Irish driver and RTE where showing the races im sure it would be equally biased.

To hate Hamilton because his father\gf\brother get too much coverage is also absurd. IMO Massa's gf (hot blonde girl) was shown in the pits during the race just as much as Hamilton's. Lewis is lucky to have such strong support to try and keep him grounded, and his father has been an incredible mentor and is quite clearly his best friend. TBH I wished I had the same relationship with my own father.

Regardless of your personal opinion of him everybody must admit that he is one of the best talents to emerge in recent years, and it is certainly not down solely to the car. If that was the case how come Heikki Kovalainen finished 7th in the title race and Mclaren did not win the constructors title?

SoupyNorman

Although Lewis has the personality of Medium Density Fiberboard, I believe the main reasons being put forward for the dis-liking of him are a little wayward.


I dont really like the chap mainly because of his advocates, namely

www.itv-f1-we are head over heels in love with Lewis.com

The fact that Lewis didnt really have the usual rite of passage I think leaves a slight sour taste in the mouth of the F1 fan. To jump right into the best car surrounded by the best team and have every whim catered to at the beginning of the career, for me does not prove that he can really drive, I mean Massa is driving in F1 since 2001 I think and he lost his seat in 2003 and now battled his way to where he is now.


It is obvious however that Lewis will be the master of his own destruction as he has probably peaked too soon and there is only one way to go(Michael Shumacher being the exception in a modern car), as was mentioned Vettel is worth a shout in a decent car.


On the side, disliking him because his family or personal life is Knumbskull-esque.

Biro

allybhoy wrote: »

I personally like Hamilton and was rooting for him to win. However I can understand why some people might dislike him, he is ruthless, determined and is self confident nearly to the point of smugness. Whereas I see these character traits as something to be commended on, others may not. Another thing that slighly "grinds my gears* is the biased coverage that ITV subject us to, however if it was an Irish driver and RTE where showing the races im sure it would be equally biased.

To hate Hamilton because his father\gf\brother get too much coverage is also absurd. IMO Massa's gf (hot blonde girl) was shown in the pits during the race just as much as Hamilton's. Lewis is lucky to have such strong support to try and keep him grounded, and his father has been an incredible mentor and is quite clearly his best friend. TBH I wished I had the same relationship with my own father.

Regardless of your personal opinion of him everybody must admit that he is one of the best talents to emerge in recent years, and it is certainly not down solely to the car. If that was the case how come Heikki Kovalainen finished 7th in the title race and Mclaren did not win the constructors title?

That's the part I have problems with. I HATE smugness and cockyness. There's a difference between confidence and smugness. He crossed that line a long time ago. How come Vettel is a really nice guy and can be just as talented?

Frankie Lee

He's just very unlikable, some quotes:

"I can't go to the cinema. I go to the bathroom in a petrol station and people come in there for autographs. It's tough, but I knew that was going to be the case."

"I've never known anyone as competitive as me and I think Alonso is very close."

"This is a fantastic day for me and my family, this is historic. I have been ready for the win for quite some time.

"I'm blinged out. I got bling on my helmet, how cool is that"

Are these good enough reasons?

BrianD3

bravestarr082 wrote: »

The fact that Lewis didnt really have the usual rite of passage I think leaves a slight sour taste in the mouth of the F1 fan. To jump right into the best car surrounded by the best team and have every whim catered to at the beginning of the career, for me does not prove that he can really drive, I mean Massa is driving in F1 since 2001 I think and he lost his seat in 2003 and now battled his way to where he is now.

Yep, I can only think of one other driver who made his F1 debut in a championship contending car/team. That was Jacques Villeneuve but it was a bit different with him as he was a more established driver than Hamilton as he'd won the Indy 500 and CART championship the year before he entered F1. F1 fans did not resent Villeneuve for his path into F1. I sense a bit of resentment towards Hamilton especially after his comments before his 5th race (Monaco 07) where he made a comment about the "monkeys at the back" of the grid. A pretty stupid comment given his perceived priviliged path into F1. He can't help how he got to F1 and isn't it great for him that he started in a top team but in my view the "monkeys" comment was inadvisable.

zeris

RayM wrote: »

No, if somebody jokes about Hamilton's stupid accident in Montreal being a result of him 'letting his disabled brother drive for him', that's very clearly taking the piss out of the disabled. Poor form, really, whether you like Hamilton himself or not.

The OP didn't say 'letting his disabled brother drive for him', if you are going to pretend to quote, quote accurately.

I also don't really think Nic Hamilton really needs a sanctimonious and patronising poster to defend him; if he cared he would do it himself.

robinph

Frankie Lee wrote: »

He's just very unlikable, some quotes:

"I can't go to the cinema. I go to the bathroom in a petrol station and people come in there for autographs. It's tough, but I knew that was going to be the case."

"I've never known anyone as competitive as me and I think Alonso is very close."

"This is a fantastic day for me and my family, this is historic. I have been ready for the win for quite some time.

"I'm blinged out. I got bling on my helmet, how cool is that"

Are these good enough reasons?

I could possibly understand you maybe not liking the attitude given in quotes 2 and 3. But the first one is just a statement of fact about his life these days, and the last one is just a comment about the lid he was wearing. Don't understand the issue with those comments at all?

zeris

Frankie Lee wrote: »

"I'm blinged out. I got bling on my helmet, how cool is that"

I think that was for a marketing dog-and-pony show for some race (prob Monaco) and not by choice.

Didn't Kimi have a tacky Iceman in diamonds on his helmet one year as well?

robinph

...and wasn't DC given a superman cape to wear on the Monaco podium? Why not hate him for that?

Those kind of descisions (special helmet design/ capes/ car livery) are never actually going to be made by the driver, some marketing person and the sponsors are the ones doing all that.

zeris

robinph wrote: »

...and wasn't DC given a superman cape to wear on the Monaco podium? Why not hate him for that?

I don't know if DC was made to wear it...a cape is but a longer kilt.

At least he avoided having to jump into a swimming pool naked unlike Horner.

jmayo

Hamilton is just another in the long line of modern drivers, dedicated, manufactured and not a lot of character. Boring as ditchwater would be a summation of modern F1 drivers, indeed most modern sports people.
Guys like Hunt, Villeneueve, Piquet, Jones, Amon probably would not make it into todays paddock because they would not play the corporate games as well.

Hamilton is another Schuemacker which means he has this win at all costs mentality.
A lot of people did not want to see the same guy (MS) always winning because he has the best car, biggest budget and a team-mate who can't or isn't allowed compete. Anyway lets hope the same doesn't happen with Hamilton.

Anyway expecting top sports stars to be always nice guys is a bit naive.
It is like everything in life.
A lot of top sports people (and indeed very successful people in lots of other areas) are at the top because they are singleminded, dedicated to themselves alone, inconsiderate, greedy, egotistical and unfriendly primma donnas. Some know shag all outside of their own tiny world and wouldn't ever make for good contestants on Mastermind.
Look at the likes of Faldo, a great golfer but a complete wa**** by all accounts with no friends in the sport.
One of the best ever baseball stars, Ty Cobb, with more records than anyone else in the sport some standing even to this day, was hated. One of his not so finer moments was attacking a heckler in the crowd who had only one hand with 3 fingers :eek:
Maybe there is more to the saying "nice guys finish last" ?

Another thing that will grate for lots of us, is as always we will have to listen to the English press and media bleating about it for the next year or more.

Anyway just my tuppence worth

ibanez777vbk

thegoth wrote: »

Three main reasons why I dislike Hamilton, in this order

1) His annoying brother (half)
2) His annoying father
3) His annoying girlfriend

Honestly, if this trend continues of showing images of Hamiltons entourage during races next year I will crack up.

Come on Alonso, Kubica, Massa, Kimi, or Vetel. PLEASE, let one of you guys win next years championship.

thats a bit unfair.his brother has a disability.his dad just seems like a normal bloke who follows his son round the world.his girlfreind is super gorgeous.i think your a tad bit jelous.anyways while we are talking about dislikes,what about goths 3 reasons why nobody likes goths.1st SCRUFFY TWATS 2ND WHERE STUPID CLOTHES 3RD WILL DIE VIRGINS lol stick that in your pipe n smoke it

EvilMonkey

jmayo wrote: »

Hamilton is another Schuemacker which means he has this win at all costs mentality.
A lot of people did not want to see the same guy (MS) always winning because he has the best car, biggest budget and a team-mate who can't or isn't allowed compete. Anyway lets hope the same doesn't happen with Hamilton.

Schumacher didnt always have the best car. When he was at Benetton the Williams was the best car. When he moved to Ferrari they didnt have the best car. He was able to develop the cars and work with the team as well as win in a car that was a dog to drive.
Alonso is doing something similar in the Renault i would love to see how Hamilton would cope in those situations.

ven0m

OP: Sorry mate, you need to get out more. You don't 'know' Lewis Hamilton or his family, or his personality other than what you see on TV etc.

I'd suggest you watch a recent interview with Michael Schumacher on the BBC, which explains the different 'faces' F-1 drivers tend to wear, & why. Even michael himself admits he behaved one way for his job & another at home.

Get off your high horse - Lewis is a 23 year old, & despite people saying 'he has a mature on head on young shoulders' - he has alot to learn.

And obviously so do you. I might also point out hamilton's brother Nicholas is a child still.

how about you grow up, take your childish whines off the internet, & focus on something truly more important than your narcissistic, petty 'reasons why you dislike hamilton'.

When Lewis hamilton has ****ed your mother, or stolen from you personally or personally offended you or personally aggrieved you, then come back & complain - til then, piss off.

ibanez777vbk

ven0m wrote: »

OP: Sorry mate, you need to get out more. You don't 'know' Lewis Hamilton or his family, or his personality other than what you see on TV etc.

I'd suggest you watch a recent interview with Michael Schumacher on the BBC, which explains the different 'faces' F-1 drivers tend to wear, & why. Even michael himself admits he behaved one way for his job & another at home.

Get off your high horse - Lewis is a 23 year old, & despite people saying 'he has a mature on head on young shoulders' - he has alot to learn.

And obviously so do you. I might also point out hamilton's brother Nicholas is a child still.

how about you grow up, take your childish whines off the internet, & focus on something truly more important than your narcissistic, petty 'reasons why you dislike hamilton'.

When Lewis hamilton has ****ed your mother, or stolen from you personally or personally offended you or personally aggrieved you, then come back & complain - til then, piss off.

nailed it.well said

jmayo

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Schumacher didnt always have the best car. When he was at Benetton the Williams was the best car. When he moved to Ferrari they didnt have the best car. He was able to develop the cars and work with the team as well as win in a car that was a dog to drive.
Alonso is doing something similar in the Renault i would love to see how Hamilton would cope in those situations.

Not wanting to drag this thread off to discuss MS but to answer your post look at calibre of drivers MS had to compete against, Damon Hill was left at Williams when they had great car :rolleyes:
One of his few real competitors was Villeneuve who then promptly made himself uncompetive by moving to BAR, Hakinen was competitive for a while and then retired, Alonso only arrived on the scene at the end.
Did MS ever have a teammate as competitive as in the cases of Luada/Prost, Senna/Prost (15 out of 16 odd races won by the team) or Piquet/Mansell ? NO.

If something smilar starts happening with Hamilton then it is the sport that will suffer with a one man domination.
Rallying is being to go that way with Loeb at the moment.

thegoth

ibanez777vbk - OP Here.

1) If you went through the bother of actually READING this thread, you would see that I retracted my remarks many many pages ago about why I dislike Lewis. I do find his brother annoying and it had NOTHING to do with his "disability". I even explain what his disability is. He basically suffers from uncontrollable muscle spasms. My op was basically just a rant as I was sooo annoyed that Massa didnt win. I dislike Lewis becuase he is so arrogant and does not seem to care about anyone other than his him and his immedite family. Other drivers I dislike are Piquet Jun, and Scott Speed. I know speed isnt driving in F1 anymore. Lets hope he joins speed driving bath tubs on wheels next year !! Ok, the reason I dont like Piquet Jun, is while he was Renault tester, he was always saying how is was faster than Fisi ..... I thought it showed alot of disrespect and lack of class. Turns out he isnt near the driver fisi was. Dont like speed because of the way he treated the talked to his team members. I remember one time he came on the radio during a pit stop that was botched, and announced that someones head was soing to roll for this. Turned out to be his :-)

2) I am not a goth. I am actually from a farm and am the furthest thing from a gith you can imagine. I setup that name as a joke.

3) I actually got some a 1:00 this morning

4) So stick that up your pipe and sit on it.

Please read in thread before posting

ibanez777vbk

thegoth wrote: »

ibanez777vbk - OP Here.

1) If you went through the bother of actually READING this thread, you would see that I retracted my remarks many many pages ago about why I dislike Lewis. I do find his brother annoying and it had NOTHING to do with his "disability". I even explain what his disability is. He basically suffers from uncontrollable muscle spasms. My op was basically just a rant as I was sooo annoyed that Massa didnt win. I dislike Lewis becuase he is so arrogant and does not seem to care about anyone other than his him and his immedite family. Other drivers I dislike are Piquet Jun, and Scott Speed. I know speed isnt driving in F1 anymore. Lets hope he joins speed driving bath tubs on wheels next year !! Ok, the reason I dont like Piquet Jun, is while he was Renault tester, he was always saying how is was faster than Fisi ..... I thought it showed alot of disrespect and lack of class. Turns out he isnt near the driver fisi was. Dont like speed because of the way he treated the talked to his team members. I remember one time he came on the radio during a pit stop that was botched, and announced that someones head was soing to roll for this. Turned out to be his :-)

2) I am not a goth. I am actually from a farm and am the furthest thing from a gith you can imagine. I setup that name as a joke.

3) I actually got some a 1:00 this morning

4) So stick that up your pipe and sit on it.

Please read in thread before posting

ok fair comment

thebman

Okay only genuine racing reasons for hating Hamilton from now on so.

He has almost driven a few people off the track this year to the point where a lot of drivers don't like him because of it.

He overwears his tyres which will bite him in the arse in a car that isn't kind to tyres.

He isn't very good under pressure or when he doesn't feel like he is in control.

Not the traits of the best driver in the world TBH. Roll on Alonso next year and a competitive Renault (hopefully).

Alun

thegoth wrote: »

I do find his brother annoying and it had NOTHING to do with his "disability". I even explain what his disability is. He basically suffers from uncontrollable muscle spasms.

The symptoms of Cerebral Palsy are a lot more complex than just the external physical 'palsy' you're referring to. It often goes hand in hand with mild learning difficulties and other behavioural problems. It is, after all, a result of brain damage either in the womb or in the very early formative years.

cashmni1

I do not like hami beacuse I personally, I think he is a very gifted driver with the wrong attitude.
He is 23 now and WC. In fairness, well done.
Yes, all F1 drivers think that they are the best drivers in the world. They kind of are too, except the smallest of skills can seperate good drivers from really great drivers.
Little things like, team development, quick thinking, a smell of victory and last but certinally not least, reaction to pressure.
The only downfall that I can see for hami is his in-experience. I think he will learn to deal with pressure and develop the team and car with time.
He did not react well to the pressure of the last race (to be fair, that was a lot of pressure), but Massa stood up to the plate and took the fight to him.
As for the team development.....look what happened last year. 'nuff said.
Smell of vitory, yes I think ha has this. He is aggressive. And so he should be. However, running guys off the track is different. But thats racing. The officals made a bit of a balls of that this year. Could have been a bit easier on ALL drivers.
Anyway, I have to eat humble pie and acknolage that he is the current WC. That doesn't mean that I like him though. There is an attitude that most or all F1 drivers have but he has a different one. I do not like it.
OP - I agree with your first points also. Cannot stand his dad. Never took too much notice of his brother, and I would rather gargle razor blades than listen to any hami interviews. The G/F is nice to look at but, not during a F1 WC deciding race.

ven0m

brim4brim wrote: »

Okay only genuine racing reasons for hating Hamilton from now on so.

He has almost driven a few people off the track this year to the point where a lot of drivers don't like him because of it.

He overwears his tyres which will bite him in the arse in a car that isn't kind to tyres.

He isn't very good under pressure or when he doesn't feel like he is in control.

Not the traits of the best driver in the world TBH. Roll on Alonso next year and a competitive Renault (hopefully).

Same could have been said for Kimi Raikonnen before he went to Ferrari - car breaker, choke artist, overly aggressive & low & behold, WC last year.

Go figure.


EDIT: and just while I think of it, Alonso is as big a cheat as those levelling claims at McLaren last year, as he was directly asking about Ferrari data, & it is probably one of the reasons he's not getting a drive with them next year & may never get a drive in a Ferrari.

Jor

I said in a previous thread that the anti-Hamilton brigade (not genuine critics, the "I hate Hamilton" mob) should clear off and leave Boards for people to discuss Formula 1 and other motorsports in a reasonable manner.

Having read the first page of this thread, I decided not to wade through any more and just make two comments.

Fristly to The Goth and all who agree with the opening to the thread:

Is it just Lewis Hamilton and his family you dislike or do you have a problem with black people in general? I won't be reading this thread anymore so just answer the question in your own minds before you publish anything else about a hard-working and talented young man, his father who has dedicated a lot of his life to helping get his son where he is and a fine young boy who has not let his illness get the better of him.

Secondly, to the moderators, if every section of Boards has a sticky banning discussion of MCD, how about some policing of personal abuse. Even if that person will never read it themselves, that hardly makes it acceptable.

ibanez777vbk

Jor wrote: »

I said in a previous thread that the anti-Hamilton brigade (not genuine critics, the "I hate Hamilton" mob) should clear off and leave Boards for people to discuss Formula 1 and other motorsports in a reasonable manner.

Having read the first page of this thread, I decided not to wade through any more and just make two comments.

Fristly to The Goth and all who agree with the opening to the thread:

Is it just Lewis Hamilton and his family you dislike or do you have a problem with black people in general? I won't be reading this thread anymore so just answer the question in your own minds before you publish anything else about a hard-working and talented young man, his father who has dedicated a lot of his life to helping get his son where he is and a fine young boy who has not let his illness get the better of him.

Secondly, to the moderators, if every section of Boards has a sticky banning discussion of MCD, how about some policing of personal abuse. Even if that person will never read it themselves, that hardly makes it acceptable.

well said boss.i dont understand why people hate lewis,he seems like a nice lad to me.his dad and family seem nice aswell.love him or hate him hes a awsome talent this is the first of many world championships,that you want to belive

Firewalkwithme

The following is a list of reasons why a lot of people hate Lewis Hamilton so very much. I might have missed a few so feel free to contribute. By the way I was delighted he won the title.

1. He is black
2. He is English
3. He does not drive a Ferrari
4. He is young and perceived to be arrogant
5. His Dad is annoying
6. His brother is annoying and disabled
7. His girlfriend is stunning
8. He next girlfriend will be stunning too, as will the one after that
9. He is minted
10. I live on a farm with none of the above trappings of wealth and success and I have a list of games consoles as my signature on an internet forum. I am bitter that Lewis Hamilton has the world at his feet when all I have is manure at mine.

FrostyJack

Is it just Lewis Hamilton and his family you dislike or do you have a problem with black people in general? I won't be reading this thread anymore so just answer the question in your own minds before you publish anything else about a hard-working and talented young man, his father who has dedicated a lot of his life to helping get his son where he is and a fine young boy who has not let his illness get the better of him.

Good one, you obviously read the first post and none of the other "I hate Hamilton" threads. Just because you obviously have problems with peoples colour and creed don't tar everyone else with the same brush. He is getting millions of pounds to be in the lime light, people pay money to go to races and watch hours of advertising which lines his pocket. If he doesn't want people giving their opinion of him then he should retire and hide under his bed. Everyone is entitled to have their say even if it is a wrong one.

10. I live on a farm with none of the above trappings of wealth and success and I have a list of games consoles as my signature on an internet forum. I am bitter that Lewis Hamilton has the world at his feet when all I have is manure at mine.

You said it brother, or maybe you meant "I have my opionion on something, if someone disagrees with me they must be racist/jealous/insane, because someone is rich and successful they must be perfect and not have any character flaws, anyone who says otherwise is one of the 3 above I just stated"

ibanez777vbk

lots of people hate winners.steve davis,eric bristow,schumacher,thats just a few to mention.pleased im crap at everything hahaha

muckwarrior

I was wondering how long it would take the racist brigade to appear.

I dislike someone who happens to be black, therefore I'm racist :rolleyes:

ven0m

muckwarrior wrote: »

I was wondering how long it would take the racist brigade to appear.

I dislike someone who happens to be black, therefore I'm racist :rolleyes:

People who are giving out about some of hamilton's comments are the same people who when similar comments were made by Schumacher & even people like Villeneuve, wouldn't say anything about them - but Hamilton says them, & there's furore; what else is there to deduce - it's either cos he's british, or cos he's black that those same people have a whine- either way bigotry is a factor.

The fact is, this young man has been subjected to a horrendous amount of disgraceful racist abuse that no other driver on the grid has ever endured, & instead of him letting it get to him, he decides to show his poker face, people give out about it?

The fact is, the world is a horrid, disgusting racist place & the second a non-white person is successful in any arena traditionally dominated by white people, there i always some brigade standing there ready to tar & feather that person over reasons they would never do so in the case of a white person.

And, I love how everyone likes to fall back & claim how Alonso was hard done by last season - HE WAS COMPLICIT in the Ferrari debaucle, & tried to BLACKMAIL his team ..... and people wonder why he didn't get a drive there next season; he will NEVER get to drive a Ferrari F-1 car as a Ferrari F-1 driver as long as DiMontezemelo is in charge.

thegoth

Jor and CartoonHead. Please read the thread before posting. I retratced my OP along time ago.

Firstly Jor
I am not racist. Why would I you mention that ? I have NEVER EVER mention Lewis's color. EVER.

I didn't realise that Lewis's brother was disabled. Its not exactly obvious is it. I again retract what I said about him.

His father. I dont like him. When I compare him and the way he carries himself to Jenson Buttons dad, Vettel's dad and any other dads, there is something very cold, calculating, and selfish about him that I dont like. I see it in his eyes. Its my opinion and cut feel.

Like, I said before, I have nothing against his girlfriend, just dont want to have to keep looking at her during a grand prix. Do you think football fans want to look at Cherl Cole while England are playing ?

Now, Cartoon_Head

1. No, its not because he is black
2. No, its not because he is English
3. No, its not because he does not drive a Ferrari. I acutally like Vetell, Alonso and Kubica
4. No, its not because he is young but yes, it is because he is to be arrogant and cocky
5. No, its not because I find his Dad annoying
6. No, its not because brother is annoying and disabled
7. No, its not because his girlfriend is stunning
8. No, its not because his next girlfriend will be stunning too, as will the one after that
9. No, its not because he is minted
10. No, its not becuase . I live on a farm with none of the above trappings of wealth and success and I have a list of games consoles as my signature on an internet forum. I am bitter that Lewis Hamilton has the world at his feet when all I have is manure at mine.
I actually live on a farm worth over a million and earn almost 60k a year. I enjoy video games, big deal. Do you have a problem with the other 100 million people who do ? I live with my long term girlfriend and am 27. I am very happy with my life and am not Jealous of Lewis although I would love to get a chance driving his F1 machinery

I never had anything againist Lewis until he disobeyed a direct team order from the man who backed him, developed him and gave him his break in F1, to let his lighter fueled teammate, Alonso, through in QUALIFYING in Hungry 2007. I thoght this showed alot of shelfishness, arrogance, disrespect and ungratefulness on his behalf. I agree that Lewis and Schmuacher do share alot of the same qualities, but Schmuacher would NEVER have done this. I know he has done bad things in the past, but never to his team or to people he owed a debt to. Trust me, Lewis will do the same in years to come. Please dont turn this into a list of Schmuachers deliberate crashes. I think this is an insight into the man himself. By the way, if Lewis or any other driver crashed into another to win a championship, I would not hold it against him. It has been done many times before, by greats such as Senna to mention one.

Dave!

thegoth - you are my new hero

muckwarrior

ven0m wrote: »

People who are giving out about some of hamilton's comments are the same people who when similar comments were made by Schumacher & even people like Villeneuve, wouldn't say anything about them - but Hamilton says them, & there's furore; what else is there to deduce - it's either cos he's british, or cos he's black that those same people have a whine- either way bigotry is a factor.

The fact is, this young man has been subjected to a horrendous amount of disgraceful racist abuse that no other driver on the grid has ever endured, & instead of him letting it get to him, he decides to show his poker face, people give out about it?

The fact is, the world is a horrid, disgusting racist place & the second a non-white person is successful in any arena traditionally dominated by white people, there i always some brigade standing there ready to tar & feather that person over reasons they would never do so in the case of a white person.

And, I love how everyone likes to fall back & claim how Alonso was hard done by last season - HE WAS COMPLICIT in the Ferrari debaucle, & tried to BLACKMAIL his team ..... and people wonder why he didn't get a drive there next season; he will NEVER get to drive a Ferrari F-1 car as a Ferrari F-1 driver as long as DiMontezemelo is in charge.

I'm not trying to deny racism exists, but it irks me that you can't say anything negative about someone of a different race without someone assuming it's because you're a racist. Also, for the record, I disliked schumacher back in the day, and so did lots of other people, so I don't accept that point.

amacachi

This reminds me of how 95% of black people who voted in America voted for Obama, but it's apparently really insulting to suggest they turned out in greater numbers becuase he was black. Of course the majority of white people who voted for McCain did so because he was white :rolleyes:

I never liked Schumacher. And I don't like Hamilton. So I must therefore be racist and anti-German and anti-British. Jesus, now I think about it Schumacher at one point drove for a British team, and Hamilton drives a car with a German engine.

Jesus Christ, thanks for makin me see what an intolerant bastard I am.

ven0m

thegoth wrote: »

I thoght this showed alot of shelfishness, arrogance, disrespect and ungratefulness on his behalf.

So what was Alonso's blackmailing of his team & Ron Dennis then by that 'judgement'????

amacachi wrote: »

This reminds me of how 95% of black people who voted in America voted for Obama, but it's apparently really insulting to suggest they turned out in greater numbers becuase he was black. Of course the majority of white people who voted for McCain did so because he was white :rolleyes:

I never liked Schumacher. And I don't like Hamilton. So I must therefore be racist and anti-German and anti-British. Jesus, now I think about it Schumacher at one point drove for a British team, and Hamilton drives a car with a German engine.

Jesus Christ, thanks for makin me see what an intolerant bastard I am.

OTT + a troll post if I ever saw one

muckwarrior wrote: »

I'm not trying to deny racism exists, but it irks me that you can't say anything negative about someone of a different race without someone assuming it's because you're a racist. Also, for the record, I disliked schumacher back in the day, and so did lots of other people, so I don't accept that point.

Sorry, Schumacher never had to endure racist taunts at any stage of his career in F-1 or have his family subjected to taunts from people with FIA press passes.

thebman

ven0m wrote: »

Sorry, Schumacher never had to endure racist taunts at any stage of his career in F-1 or have his family subjected to taunts from people with FIA press passes.

Yeah nobody has ever said anything racist to a German person before :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure every driver gets abuse for where they are from or the colour of their skin or their height or lack of it.

Biro

ven0m wrote: »

The fact is, the world is a horrid, disgusting racist place & the second a non-white person is successful in any arena traditionally dominated by white people, there i always some brigade standing there ready to tar & feather that person over reasons they would never do so in the case of a white person.

That's bullsh!t. Listen to the radio today, nothing but positive comments flooding in for Obama after being elected.
How come Obama is very confident and is liked but Lewis who is confident is disliked? They're both the same skin colour, so that's that argument of yours out the window. I'll tell you the real reason. Lewis has gone past confident into arrogant. He's a well-spoken and well brought up fella for sure, but the arrogance is there. Well-spoken arrogance is still arrogance.

amacachi

ven0m wrote: »

OTT + a troll post if I ever saw one

Yeah it was OTT, but I'm gonna go OTT when I'm basically accused of being a racist with absolutely nothing to back it up.

ven0m

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah it was OTT, but I'm gonna go OTT when I'm basically accused of being a racist with absolutely nothing to back it up.

where did I say amacachi is a racist or was a racist? you weren't accused of jack **** pal - so stfu, & gtfo.

and to 'brim4brim' - no-one ever turned up in nazi uniforms taunting schumacher, or holding up equally offensive signs or doing such items to his family during his F-1 career - it has happened to hamilton, & that's an undisputed fact, so bog off with your crap. The fact is hamilton has been at the receiving end of such abuse no other f-1 driver has been subjected to, & it has been abuse aimed squarely around the color of his skin.

And as for the Obama thing - all people can keep coming back to is the fact 'a black man has been voted president & was voted in by black people & it's where his extra numbers came from'. Again, coming down to the color of his skin, not due to the fact he ran the best campaign & motivated & divided people like no other candidate in recent years.

You all can dress it up any which way you want, but the majority of hatred against hamilton is race based & comes down to the usual 'typical black person cocky behaviour'. And you lot can take that whatever way you want, but it's true.

Not a single one of you make complaints about Luca DiMontazemelo's cocky statements or even his recent ones about Hamilton not keeping that number 1 for long, as it it will be back where it belongs on a Ferrari - that's pure arrogance & not a single one of you made a post saying how THAT was arrogant.

Get over yourselves, you self righteous a-holes.

muckwarrior

ven0m wrote: »

Sorry, Schumacher never had to endure racist taunts at any stage of his career in F-1 or have his family subjected to taunts from people with FIA press passes.

So? Just because a minority of racist assholes dislike Hamilton that makes everyone who dislikes him a racist?

As already suggested, when small minded people want to abuse someone they'll take cheapest shot available, whether that be making a Nazi reference calling them fat/skinny/bald, or making a racial slur. Everyone in the public eye must put up with this, and it doesn't detract from the fact that there may be valid reasons for disliking that person.

ven0m

muckwarrior wrote: »

So? Just because a minority of racist assholes dislike Hamilton that makes everyone who dislikes him a racist?

It is when they won't even decry it. Not decrying it makes those people equally as guilty. A bit like the FIA setting up that 'Drive against racism' crap. Sure, set it up AFTER the fact - it's not like they didn't know they had non-white drivers with FIA licenses in a whole ****load of classes......

being in the public eye doesn't make it 'something you have to accept', in fact - it makes it even more damning on society that people feel they can openly behave in such a manner without any admonishment.

Hamilton never received abuse like this at GP-2 races, & christ knows I've seen enough Gp-2 & been to enough GP-2 events & F-1 events over the years. What has been seen in the last two years aimed at him & his ethnicity is a god damned disgrace. Lewis Hamilton's race/ethnicity is constantly being brought into it; 'the first black formula 1 driver'. And yet, no-one out there is going "Oi - ****face - his name is Lewis Hamilton, he's a person - **** off with the hole skin color crap!" Why can't he be just 'lewis hamilton' - why does he have to be 'formula-1's first black driver Lewis hamilton' - seen that more than a few times in various media reports, & it's still sickening.

I'll bet my bollocks to a barnyard door that when half the people complaining about his cockyness hear their favorite movie star or artist talk about whatever their recent project was being their greatest work yet their first reaction isn't "cocky bastard - how dare they!"

zeris

ven0m wrote: »

or have his family subjected to taunts from people with FIA press passes.

Cite?

Schumacher got a huge round of applause and cheers when he crashed heavily into the tire wall at Silverstone. Allegedly, as I wasn't there but it was reported at the time. The English press made many headlines and references to him being different to them; ie the evil Hun.

ven0m

zeris wrote: »

Cite?

Schumacher got a huge round of applause and cheers when he crashed heavily into the tire wall at Silverstone. Allegedly, as I wasn't there but it was reported at the time. The English press made many headlines and references to him being different to them; ie the evil Hun.

His family members at the race & at the hotel in brazil were given black cats (signs of bad luck) by press people, & it was widely reported & mentioned by Anthony hamilton in many papers over the last few days in interviews which have been printed in tabloids & broadsheets.

I don't remember a single british tabloid posting a headline with refering to Schumacher as 'a hun' when he hit the tyre walls in Silverstone.

And yes, there was jeers & cheers when he crashed into the tyres (I was at silverstone that year & when it was shown on the big screen near where I was, people were cheering ... knobs - Schumacher coulda been killed or lost his legs & people cheered ... lovely!) - but it's no different to the jeers given when hamilton has arsed up by the card carrying members of the anti-hamilton brigade at races, or when the mclaren knobs cheered as Massa ripped the fuel hose at shanghai ... there's a difference between jeering & blatent racism/undesirable harassment.

thebman

ven0m wrote: »

You all can dress it up any which way you want, but the majority of hatred against hamilton is race based & comes down to the usual 'typical black person cocky behaviour'. And you lot can take that whatever way you want, but it's true.

I don't believe that for a second. I wanted Obama to win the election and think Hamilton is an arrogant pr*ck the likes of which has never been seen. Your unbelievable. The real problem here is you want the issue to be about race! Probably so you can go have a good rant. Your the extremist in this thread with what appears to be an issue with any negative statement directed at a black person.

Not a single one of you make complaints about Luca DiMontazemelo's cocky statements or even his recent ones about Hamilton not keeping that number 1 for long, as it it will be back where it belongs on a Ferrari - that's pure arrogance & not a single one of you made a post saying how THAT was arrogant.

Get over yourselves, you self righteous a-holes.

Probably because I didn't read it and I don't have to see it. If you watch a GP, there's Hamilton (especially with ITV's coverage) so it is inevitable that more people see him being a cocky git than some fool in the background that nobody sees.

If another driver got that publicity and acted the same way Hamilton did, he'd have lots of people dislike him for being cocky too.

zeris

ven0m wrote: »

His family members at the race & at the hotel in brazil were given black cats (signs of bad luck) by press people, & it was widely reported & mentioned by Anthony hamilton in many papers over the last few days in interviews which have been printed in tabloids & broadsheets.

The event you are referring happened to Lewis specifically at a corporate event. There is no indication that the two people involved had FIA passes.

muckwarrior

ven0m wrote: »

Lewis Hamilton's race/ethnicity is constantly being brought into it; ... Why can't he be just 'lewis hamilton'

Erm, that's exactly how I feel, which is why I'm not implying that people who dislike him are racists. Like most other people I dislike him because of his personality, no other reason. Is it so hard to accept that that's why so many people have a negative opinion of him and not because they have some sort of racist agenda?

amacachi

where did I say amacachi is a racist or was a racist? you weren't accused of jack **** pal - so stfu, & gtfo.

ven0m wrote: »

People who are giving out about some of hamilton's comments are the same people who when similar comments were made by Schumacher & even people like Villeneuve, wouldn't say anything about them - but Hamilton says them, & there's furore; what else is there to deduce - it's either cos he's british, or cos he's black that those same people have a whine- either way bigotry is a factor.

Eh, kinda there?

Hamilton never received abuse like this at GP-2 races, & christ knows I've seen enough Gp-2 & been to enough GP-2 events & F-1 events over the years. What has been seen in the last two years aimed at him & his ethnicity is a god damned disgrace. Lewis Hamilton's race/ethnicity is constantly being brought into it; 'the first black formula 1 driver'. And yet, no-one out there is going "Oi - ****face - his name is Lewis Hamilton, he's a person - **** off with the hole skin color crap!" Why can't he be just 'lewis hamilton' - why does he have to be 'formula-1's first black driver Lewis hamilton' - seen that more than a few times in various media reports, & it's still sickening.

The people in the media I usually have noticed mentioning his race are his supporters in the media. I agree it shouldn't even come into it, but it does for some people, not for me.
At first I didn't like Button when he came into Formula 1, but through his interviews I've grown to like him. Coulthard these days seems great craic as well. So it's not anti-british bigotry making me dislike him.

I don't remember a single british tabloid posting a headline with refering to Schumacher as 'a hun' when he hit the tyre walls in Silverstone.

Maybe not in the headlines, but I do remember plenty of sideways snipes at Schumacher's nationality.

And as for the Obama thing - all people can keep coming back to is the fact 'a black man has been voted president & was voted in by black people & it's where his extra numbers came from'. Again, coming down to the color of his skin, not due to the fact he ran the best campaign & motivated & divided people like no other candidate in recent years.

Yes he did run the better campaign, but what I'm saying is is that it's unfair to say "Oh the whites only voted for McCain because he was white" when it's apparently completely disgraceful to suggest that the record black turnout had anything to do with Obama being black.

thegoth

"So what was Alonso's blackmailing of his team & Ron Dennis then by that 'judgement'???? "

Orginially, I thought that Alonso was very very wrong for blackmailing Ron Dennis. I actually immensely dislike him because of it, but after reading David Coulthards autobiography, its clear that Ron does have favourites. David said that Mika Hakkinen was always treated better than him in the team. Ron, Mika, and David were once in a meeting with engineers going through stragegy. After they had gone through Mikas plan for the race, Ron turned to an engineer, ignoring the fact David was there, and asked "What are THEY doing". They are loads of examples of this in the book. David says that he always got the same car as Mika, but never the same support from the team. He said that Ron Dennis actually admitted to him that he preferred Mika to him, and that was the way it was. The reason he gave was that Mika had almost died driving a McLaren, and this brought them close together. David says that he had sympathy for Alonso in this enviroment

It was unprofessional for Alonso to do what he did, but imagine that if you worked at a job with someone else. Both of you did a silimar job, and had silimar ability. Now imagine if your boss always favoured the other guy. It would be classified as bullying in most cases. Regardless, it would make you want to look for another job and leave.

It is clear that Ron Dennis had a very soft spot for Lewis as he had supported him from the age of 13. It is also clear, that based on what I read in David Coulthards autobiography, that Dennis has favourite drivers and he favoured Lewis because of this. When it got to the point where Lewis felt his position was so strong in the team, by half way through the first season, that he could disobey a totally normal, legal team order because he was so tight with Ron Dennis, that was the final straw for Alonso. Would most people react the same way ? I think I might if I knew I would walk into another job with the same pay. Would you ?

ven0m

zeris wrote: »

The event you are referring happened to Lewis specifically at a corporate event. There is no indication that the two people involved had FIA passes.

I'll quote the following from PlanetF1.com (for those who weren't aware & then pick up your point):

Anthony Hamilton has spoken of the ill-will and abuse directed towards his son Lewis in the build-up to last Sunday's title showdown in Brazil.

In the days leading up to the season finale the McLaren driver was racially abused on a Spanish website, earning the condemnation of both the FIA and the British government.

However, the abuse later got up close and personal as two Brazilian comedians insulted Lewis during a press conference before handing him a toy black cat - a symbol of bad luck in the eyes of the Brazilian people.

It didn't stop with Lewis, though, as his brother Nick was also handed a black cat as he entered the hotel where the family was staying.

But I do stand corrected, it was at a Johnny Walker F-1 race promotion event not an FIA event as I had read. At the JW promotion Lewis did have a media spot, so you're right - FIA passes or not was unconfirmed or any association to FIA accreditation involvement is also unconfirmed.

muckwarrior wrote:

Like most other people I dislike him because of his personality, no other reason

Sorry, you don't know him - none of us do. You don't know his 'personality'. You like the rest of us sees his 'game face' & his 'race bravado'. This is what sports people do & even successful business people do; have a business face & persona, & a private one. When you know him personally, & what he is like in private, you & everyone else can then claim you 'dislike his personality'. People saying they dislike him because of his personality is the EXACT same as people 'hating the heel in wrestling'; IT'S A PERSONA, not necessarily the person's real private personality.

And yet proving my point about judgements on character based on 'singular perception', ty brim4brim:

brim4brim wrote:

(I) think Hamilton is an arrogant pr*ck the likes of which has never been seen. Your unbelievable. The real problem here is you want the issue to be about race! Probably so you can go have a good rant. Your the extremist in this thread with what appears to be an issue with any negative statement directed at a black person.

Sorry, you don't know WHAT my issue is, but you've kindly helped me prove my point;

UNTIL YOU KNOW SOMEONE, YOU DO NOT KNOW THEIR PERSONALITY OR WHAT THEY ARE LIKE IN PERSON WHEN THEY'RE AT THEIR MOST PRIVATE AND COMFORTABLE.

SO any arguments about his 'personality' & your dislike of them as a person because of it are null & void - & as I said, it is akin to 'hating a heel in wrestling'. It's not that person, it is their 'persona' or 'character' for their job.

Mitch Connor

amacachi wrote: »

This reminds me of how 95% of black people who voted in America voted for Obama, but it's apparently really insulting to suggest they turned out in greater numbers becuase he was black. Of course the majority of white people who voted for McCain did so because he was white :rolleyes:

I never liked Schumacher. And I don't like Hamilton. So I must therefore be racist and anti-German and anti-British. Jesus, now I think about it Schumacher at one point drove for a British team, and Hamilton drives a car with a German engine.

Jesus Christ, thanks for makin me see what an intolerant bastard I am.

stats i read showed there was little increase in black voters compared to last year (13% one figure I saw) and also, the black vote has generally gone democratic in the past.

ven0m

thegoth wrote: »

"So what was Alonso's blackmailing of his team & Ron Dennis then by that 'judgement'???? "

Orginially, I thought that Alonso was very very wrong for blackmailing Ron Dennis. I actually immensely dislike him because of it, but after reading David Coulthards autobiography, its clear that Ron does have favourites. David said that Mika Hakkinen was always treated better than him in the team. Ron, Mika, and David were once in a meeting with engineers going through stragegy. After they had gone through Mikas plan for the race, Ron turned to an engineer, ignoring the fact David was there, and asked "What are THEY doing". They are loads of examples of this in the book. David says that he always got the same car as Mika, but never the same support from the team. He said that Ron Dennis actually admitted to him that he preferred Mika to him, and that was the way it was. The reason he gave was that Mika had almost died driving a McLaren, and this brought them close together. David says that he had sympathy for Alonso in this enviroment

It was unprofessional for Alonso to do what he did, but imagine that if you worked at a job with someone else. Both of you did a silimar job, and had silimar ability. Now imagine if your boss always favoured the other guy. It would be classified as bullying in most cases. Regardless, it would make you want to look for another job and leave.

It is clear that Ron Dennis had a very soft spot for Lewis as he had supported him from the age of 13. It is also clear, that based on what I read in David Coulthards autobiography, that Dennis has favourite drivers and he favoured Lewis because of this. When it got to the point where Lewis felt his position was so strong in the team, by half way through the first season, that he could disobey a totally normal, legal team order because he was so tight with Ron Dennis, that was the final straw for Alonso. Would most people react the same way ? I think I might if I knew I would walk into another job with the same pay. Would you ?

Actually, you make some INCREDIBLY good points (and I do suggest ANYONE who likes F-1 gets COulthard's book - its a bloody good read suprisingly!!!)).

However, Alonso is a rattle thrower. Towards the end of his season with Renault before bouncing to McLaren, he whined to the press his team were not supporting his bid to become world champion because he was leaving.

That was a discussion that should have remained private, not for airing in public. Alonso washes his dirty linen in public too often, embroils himself in contraversy & bitterness with people, which he also makes public, & then expects people to go 'awww, poor Fernando. Jesus, that poor guy - he can;t catch a break'.

Fernando Alonso is the architect of his own problems & also why he will never get a drive in a Ferrari F-1 car. Does he honestly think Luca DiMontezemelo is going for forget his involvement in what happened last year? Like **** Luca is ......... he is someone who holds grudges & never lets people forget, & makes some of the single most contraversial statements in Formula-1, but of course he's allowed to because he runs Ferrari, & 'Ferrari are never wrong' (if you believe some of the nutcases out there!!!).