The next generation "NCF" Mobile phones will eliminate global cash.

thecommander

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Making one cashless system more attractive and trendier than the other.

OK, so trendy people will ditch debit card and use their iPhone Mk 10.

Still cash in wallet.

People that aren't trendy will continue to use cash.

robtri

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Making one cashless system more attractive and trendier than the other.

You approach some young one on the streets with a smart card and ask them would they use this instead of cash, the most probable answer would be to fcuk off. Offer the same person a free I Phone and more than likely they would fall for it.

It probably won't be too long before major banks will start subsidising these devices.

probably
its always probaly........

Run_to_da_hills

Since this thread started over three years ago NFC has been rather slow to catch on in this part of the world compared to the Far East. When the system dose arrive it will hit the communications device market overnight in the same manner as camera phones did in the last decade and it won't be just mobile phones.

The system is already gearing up to indoctrinating kids in the new up and coming highly invasive form of cashless system.

Nintendo to include NFC in its next games console

hooradiation

Or more likely, Nintendo are looking to cash in on the amazing popularity of things like Skylanders.

Which makes a lot more sense then Nintendo - the arch conservatives of the video gaming world, bundling NCF technology into the console formerly known as the WiiU because they want to "indoctrinating kids in the new up and coming highly invasive form of cashless system".

I mean, what does Nintendo even gain from this?

Run_to_da_hills

hooradiation wrote: »

Or more likely, Nintendo are looking to cash in on the amazing popularity of things like Skylanders.

Which makes a lot more sense then Nintendo - the arch conservatives of the video gaming world, bundling NCF technology into the console formerly known as the WiiU because they want to "indoctrinating kids in the new up and coming highly invasive form of cashless system".

I mean, what does Nintendo even gain from this?

"The Wii U, expected to ship during the second half of 2012, is to come with NFC functionality built into its next-generation controller, allowing players to interact with NFC-enabled figures and cards as well as to pay for games and other items".

Just like mobile phones game consuls can do a hell of a lot more than just play games, ie watch the Internet, take pictures, play music, watch full length movies on HDD or DVD, adding NFC is just another attraction to market the product just like adding it to Mobile Phones.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"The Wii U, expected to ship during the second half of 2012, is to come with NFC functionality built into its next-generation controller, allowing players to interact with NFC-enabled figures and cards as well as to pay for games and other items".

Just like mobile phones game consuls can do a hell of a lot more than just play games, ie watch the Internet, take pictures, play music, watch full length movies on HDD or DVD, adding NFC is just another attraction to market the product just like adding it to Mobile Phones.

RTDH you realise that you have been able to use your credit card to buy games from your console for a couple of years now.
How would this technology make this a problem?
What exactly is the danger here?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

RTDH you realise that you have been able to use your credit card to buy games from your console for a couple of years now.
How would this technology make this a problem?
What exactly is the danger here?

The subject of this thread is about NFC technology incorporated into hand held devices and not credit cards. :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The subject of this thread is about NFC technology incorporated into hand held devices and not credit cards. :rolleyes:

So how does paying for games with a credit card differ from paying for games with NFC?
How is one more horrible or dangerous than the other?
How does the evil conspiracy benefit from one more than the other?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

So how does paying for games with a credit card differ from paying for games with NFC?
How is one more horrible or dangerous than the other?
How does the evil conspiracy benefit from one more than the other?

Do us all a favour and quit trolling.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do us all a favour and quit trolling.

I'm not trolling, I'm just asking you some questions about the theory you are putting forward.
If you don't want to answer simple questions, try getting a blog were no one will bother you with critical thought.

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

I'm not trolling, I'm just asking you some questions about the theory you are putting forward.
If you don't want to answer simple questions, try getting a blog were no one will bother you with critical thought.

If you followed the thread from the beginning you might find some answers. :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If you followed the thread from the beginning you might find some answers. :rolleyes:

I have, you don't provide any despite being repeatedly asked.

You just seem to be warning that the technology is evil because it's new, with nothing else to support it, and you claim that there is multiple programs to get people to accept this technology when all of this stuff already applies to credit cards.

So again you warn that Nintendo are part of the global evil conspiracy to hook kids on the technology, even though they have offered the service to buy game with a credit card on their console for years now.
So how does the latest technology you are trying to make sound scary make this situation any worse, or bad in the first place?

If you can't provide an answer for this simply question, it means that there's something wrong with your theory.

Jonny7

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"The Wii U, expected to ship during the second half of 2012, is to come with NFC functionality built into its next-generation controller, allowing players to interact with NFC-enabled figures and cards as well as to pay for games and other items".

Just like mobile phones game consuls can do a hell of a lot more than just play games, ie watch the Internet, take pictures, play music, watch full length movies on HDD or DVD, adding NFC is just another attraction to market the product just like adding it to Mobile Phones.

I don't honestly see what the worry is either.

I pay for most things without cash. In fact this system has been in place for over a decade and hasn't replaced cash.

hooradiation

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

"The Wii U, expected to ship during the second half of 2012, is to come with NFC functionality built into its next-generation controller, allowing players to interact with NFC-enabled figures and cards as well as to pay for games and other items".

As has been pointed out to you, this has been the standard practice since the start of the current generation, with Nintendo Points, Xbox Live points and the PSN as well as the steam wallet.
"Cashless transactions" if you must call them that, are a big, big deal. It's a massive revenue stream for publishers and platform holders alike and has been since about 2006.
And they operate under the exact same premise. Add your bank details, and then spend. All transactions are monitored and logged.

So, aside from your contention that NFC is sinister simply because you say so, how does the NFC technology being added to the WiiU constitute anything untoward?
Or indeed, anything new?

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Just like mobile phones game consuls can do a hell of a lot more than just play games, ie watch the Internet, take pictures, play music, watch full length movies on HDD or DVD, adding NFC is just another attraction to market the product just like adding it to Mobile Phones.

This is somewhat true - and as an aside, I am very well versed in what games consoles can do. And I would imagine I know a lot more than you.

Nintendo are adding NFC to the WiiU - because it's something they believe is an attractive feature. Not for the reasons you think though.

There has been a proven market value in skylanders and the like (don't know? google it) and this is the kind of gimmick Nintendo loves to package into their consoles.
They can't compete on raw horse power so they try and offer something different. It was motion controls in the Wii, now they have their tablet control system and incidental things like NFC, simply because coupled with games that use skylanders style miniatures it's practically a license to print money.

ronsgonawin

Im not sure

Run_to_da_hills

Jonny7 wrote: »

I don't honestly see what the worry is either.

I pay for most things without cash. In fact this system has been in place for over a decade and hasn't replaced cash.

Everytime you take cash out of an ATM machine your payment details and location of transaction is disclosed on your statement and kept on record for two years under current EU data retention directives.

Using NFC or payment APPs is like carrying a miniature ATM machine about in your arse pocket because payment details and location of transaction will also be disclosed and kept on record for up to two years under data retention directives


"Transferring cash to be as easy as texting a friend thanks to new smartphone app"

On a similar note, this APP will also pinpoint your location and time on every single transaction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101820/Barclays-Pingit-App-Transferring-cash-easy-texting-friend.html

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Everytime you take cash out of an ATM machine your payment details and location of transaction is disclosed on your statement and kept on record for two years under current EU data retention directives.

Using NFC or payment APPs is like carrying a miniature ATM machine about in your arse pocket because payment details and location of transaction will also be disclosed and kept on record for up to two years under data retention directives


"Transferring cash to be as easy as texting a friend thanks to new smartphone app"

On a similar note, this APP will also pinpoint your location and time on every single transaction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101820/Barclays-Pingit-App-Transferring-cash-easy-texting-friend.html

First, that article does not mention anything about recording your position. And there's no reason to think that it's any different to connecting to the web or sending a text.
Second, so what? Why is this a bad thing?

Jonny7

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Everytime you take cash out of an ATM machine your payment details and location of transaction is disclosed on your statement and kept on record for two years under current EU data retention directives.

Using NFC or payment APPs is like carrying a miniature ATM machine about in your arse pocket because payment details and location of transaction will also be disclosed and kept on record for up to two years under data retention directives


"Transferring cash to be as easy as texting a friend thanks to new smartphone app"

On a similar note, this APP will also pinpoint your location and time on every single transaction.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101820/Barclays-Pingit-App-Transferring-cash-easy-texting-friend.html

Yup, I'm aware of it, but how is it a problem?

Run_to_da_hills

Jonny7 wrote: »

Yup, I'm aware of it, but how is it a problem?

Would you have a problem disclosing your GSM coordinates and other personal details to the system every time you wanted to make a simple purchase among your close friends and family members?

Letting the system know where exactly you are, how much is being transacted. In some cases the authorities could request remote access to your phone to check out text messages and other correspondence leading up to your personal electronic cash transaction.

Jonny7

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Would you have a problem disclosing your GSM coordinates and other personal details to the system every time you wanted to make a simple purchase among your close friends and family members?

Letting the system know where exactly you are, how much is being transacted. In some cases letting the authorities remote access to your phone to check out text messages and other correspondence leading up to your personal electronic cash transaction.

No I wouldn't. I'm not worried about the dozens if not hundreds of times I am captured on cctv every time I am in the city either.

If anything, that information sits there completely unused, unless of course a credit card or phone gets stolen, in which case its useful.

They've been using this phone-pay system in places like Nigeria for 5 years now.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Would you have a problem disclosing your GSM coordinates and other personal details to the system every time you wanted to make a simple purchase among your close friends and family members?

Letting the system know where exactly you are, how much is being transacted. In some cases the authorities could request remote access to your phone to check out text messages and other correspondence leading up to your personal electronic cash transaction.

But "they" already do that when you use an ATM or internet banking.
And the authorities can access this stuff in certain circumstances anyway.
So why is it a problem, or a problem unique to this scary new technology?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

But "they" already do that when you use an ATM or internet banking.
And the authorities can access this stuff in certain circumstances anyway.
So why is it a problem, or a problem unique to this scary new technology?

You are about to go on my ignore list.

You haven't a clue even what this thread or NFC technology is even about going by your constant trolling.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You are about to go on my ignore list.

You haven't a clue even what this thread or NFC technology is even about going by your constant trolling.

Well if this is true, it's because you are either unwilling or unable to answer simple questions about it.

I am asking you straight out why this technology is bad, you have not been able to explain it beyond nebulous scaremongering about shadowy boogeymen who want this information even though they would already have it.

So go ahead, ignore questions you can't actually answer, you never had any interest in discussion anyway.

GreenWolfe

Actually, the app recording location info would be beneficial imo. What if the app's security precautions failed and proof needed to be offered that someone else used your login details/whatever else without authorisation?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't authorities just order networks to hand over subscribers information if they're suspected of a crime already.

Here's a non-evil use for NFC, I could get a Nokia Luna bluetooth headset and tap it to my NFC-enabled Nokia and they can pair instantly. Still evil?

Run_to_da_hills

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

Actually, the app recording location info would be beneficial imo. What if the app's security precautions failed and proof needed to be offered that someone else used your login details/whatever else without authorisation?

There are plenty of benefits in any electronic tracking system.

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't authorities just order networks to hand over subscribers information if they're suspected of a crime already.

That has always been the case but as in the case of TFL, police can now have live access to Oystercard records so it will only be a matter of time before the authorities will be able to monitor live any traffic from your ISP or SP without a warrant.

EarthlyPangaea wrote: »

Here's a non-evil use for NFC, I could get a Nokia Luna bluetooth headset and tap it to my NFC-enabled Nokia and they can pair instantly. Still evil?

There is nothing "EVIL" about NFC used in phones or any cashless technology, its just like having a loaded a gun sitting in a cabinet. It can only become "EVIL" should it ever get into the wrong hands and we have come across plenty of "wrong hands" down through history.

Could you imagine the same paranoid authorities that criminalises, imprisons and deports ordinary people over trivial social network comments watching over your shoulder at every single cashless transaction you make and then the possibility of holding it against you should it ever be deemed necessary to do so?

Run_to_da_hills

The fact that you may be forced to carry your phone on you at all times means that you could be pinpointed within inches anywhere in public if your phone has the latest Broadcom 4752 ,microchip chip incorporated into it.

The United Arab Emirates signed a deal with telecommunications company, Etisalat, to embed citizens' national ID information into mobile phones. They will now be exploring a system that would utilize an NFC or Near Field Communication application, which allows cell phones to communicate data via radio frequency within very close range. The UAE has had a national ID system since 2004, with IDs carrying a chip similar to one on a credit card and holding a person's name, birthday, gender, photograph, fingerprint, and ID number.

Since carrying an ID card is mandatory in the UAE, this may mean that Emirati citizens may begin to be required to carry their phones on them at all times. Their objectives for working towards implementing this system currently unknown. However, integrating personal data with mobile phones can only bring trouble.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/12/uae_nfc_id/

hooradiation

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The fact that you may be forced to carry your phone on you at all times means that you could be pinpointed within inches anywhere in public if your phone has the latest Broadcom 4752 ,microchip chip incorporated into it.

There is a hell of a lot of conditionals in that sentence.

Run_to_da_hills

hooradiation wrote: »

There is a hell of a lot of conditionals in that sentence.

It looks like Samsung are experimenting with this themselves at their own factory, it would make sense as everyone these days carries a mobile phone and because they are so personalized with APPS, games, ,videos, music cameras etc people are less likely to want to loose them than an ID card.

Samsung scrapping ID cards in favor of NFC-equipped handsets

hooradiation

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It looks like Samsung are experimenting with it at their own factory, it would make sense. Everyone carries a mobile phone and because they are so personalized people are less likely to want to loose it. They are alsoo so handy with APPS, games, address books etc that people are more likely to want it on them at all times.

Samsung scrapping ID cards in favor of NFC-equipped handsets

The biggest problem I can see is that people lose phones all the damn time, or have them stolen, or render them useless through unintentional exposure to elements/blunt force - how does this idea of your gel with people being scatterbrained and careless?

Isn't it pretty bloody useless if the phones are so fragile and prone to theft?

clever_name

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The fact that you may be forced to carry your phone on you at all times means that you could be pinpointed within inches anywhere in public if your phone has the latest Broadcom 4752 ,microchip chip incorporated into it.

The United Arab Emirates signed a deal with telecommunications company, Etisalat, to embed citizens' national ID information into mobile phones. They will now be exploring a system that would utilize an NFC or Near Field Communication application, which allows cell phones to communicate data via radio frequency within very close range. The UAE has had a national ID system since 2004, with IDs carrying a chip similar to one on a credit card and holding a person's name, birthday, gender, photograph, fingerprint, and ID number.

Since carrying an ID card is mandatory in the UAE, this may mean that Emirati citizens may begin to be required to carry their phones on them at all times. Their objectives for working towards implementing this system currently unknown. However, integrating personal data with mobile phones can only bring trouble.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/12/uae_nfc_id/

If the UAE wants to make sure that every citizen has a nice modern mobile then thats great for them, it would be great if the government made sure everyone got access to modern tech. Obliviously it would be less useful as an ID system than a card - dont want to carry ID? simple have a flat battery.

Run_to_da_hills

hooradiation wrote: »

The biggest problem I can see is that people lose phones all the damn time, or have them stolen, or render them useless through unintentional exposure to elements/blunt force - how does this idea of your gel with people being scatterbrained and careless?

Isn't it pretty bloody useless if the phones are so fragile and prone to theft?

As with any smart card it would only takes a few minutes to flash your personal details on to a new phone.

The US is of last week tightening its belt on smart phone theft, this could become global so a phone could be bricked anywhere in the world if swiped and its NFC capabilities red flagged if someone tried to use it.

Phones are a lot more durable compared to previous, no keyboards to let spilled coffee or moisture through.

clever_name wrote: »

If the UAE wants to make sure that every citizen has a nice modern mobile then thats great for them, it would be great if the government made sure everyone got access to modern tech. Obliviously it would be less useful as an ID system than a card - dont want to carry ID? simple have a flat battery.

NFC controllers can be passive RFID and can still operate when the phone battery is flat.

clever_name

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

NFC controllers can still operate when the phone battery is flat.

http://www.nfcworld.com/2010/12/02/35323/samsung-enters-nfc-controller-market/

Ok good to know, its still great that every person in the UAE would get a nice modern phone.

Run_to_da_hills

clever_name wrote: »

Ok good to know, its still great that every person in the UAE would get a nice modern phone.

More than likely they would be handed out a sticker for existing smart phone, these would cost pittance of course if they wanted an IPhone 5 or Galaxy 3s they would have to get it themselves.

http://www.psfk.com/2012/04/barclays-nfc-sticker-turns-your-mobile-phone-into-a-credit-card.html

clever_name

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

More than likely they would be handed out a sticker for existing smart phone, these would cost pittance of course if they wanted an IPhone 5 or Galaxy 3s they would have to get it themselves.

http://www.psfk.com/2012/04/barclays-nfc-sticker-turns-your-mobile-phone-into-a-credit-card.html

And if they dont have a smart phone?

Run_to_da_hills

clever_name wrote: »

And if they dont have a smart phone?

Tough.

They would probably have to stick with their normal ID card.

They might get some incentives to switch over such as subsidies from service providers, bank and state etc.

clever_name

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Tough.

They would probably have to stick with their normal ID card.

They might get some incentives to switch over such as subsidies from service providers, bank and state etc.

So people could stick with the old ID and not be forced to carry a phone at all times like you suggested, so nothing sinister just business as usual.

Run_to_da_hills

clever_name wrote: »

So people could stick with the old ID and not be forced to carry a phone at all times like you suggested, so nothing sinister just business as usual.

I would imagine there would have to be a lead in period as with any other form of new ID.

hooradiation

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Phones are a lot more durable compared to previous, no keyboards to let spilled coffee or moisture through.

god, I wish....