Ireland Team Vs Canada

Dools2007

The Ireland team to play Canada in the vital opening game of the Guinness series in Thomond Park, Limerick this weekend has been named by Ireland Coach Declan Kidney.
The team contains several new combinations at international level for the IRB world ranking game. Keith Earls will start his first international for Ireland at full back in his home ground and is the one new cap in the starting team.

He is joined in the back three by Tommy Bowe and Robert Kearney. There is also a new midfield partnership in the team with Luke Fitzgerald and Irish Captain Brian O’Driscoll linking up in the centres.

In the pack, Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery and Tony Buckley are all selected in the front row to start an international together for the first time. Stephen Ferris is named on the blindside for the game alongside Shane Jennings on the other flank and Jamie Heaslip continues where he left off during the summer tour by being named at No.8 for the game.

The seven replacements for the game will be confirmed by Kidney on Thursday.

Ireland Team (V Canada, GUINNESS Series 2008, Thomond Park, Saturday November 8th, 17:15)

15 – Keith Earls* (Young Munster/Munster)

14 – Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)

13 – Brian O’Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) Captain

12 – Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)

11 – Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)

10 – Ronan O’Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)

9 – Eoin Reddan (Wasps)

1 – Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)

2 – Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)

3 – Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)

4 – Donncha O’Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)

5 – Paul O’Connell (Young Munster/Munster)

6 – Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)

7 – Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)

8 – Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)

Replacements to be selected from the following 8:

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), John Hayes (Bruff/Munster), Ryan Caldwell (Dungannon/Ulster), Alan Quinlan (Shannon/Munster), David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster), Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster), Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster), Shane Horgan (Boyne/Leinster)

RuggieBear

Delighted to see Earls start.

The team has a good blend of experience and those needing game time

jam_on_toast

good to see some new faces getting a start, ie ferris, jennings, earls, buckley.

dissapointed healy is not on the bench, no point in having hayes there. Would also like to have seen a proper 10 on the bench. I hope wallace is there to be brought on in the centre, not at 10.

Zzippy

Surprised to see Earls start, thought he would maybe come on for the second half against Canada. Will be very interesting to see how he performs, really looking forward to seeing him play in an Irish shirt. Thought it would be Kearney at FB...interested to see how he does on the wing though.
Hard to understand Buckley starting, he can't even get his game for Munster at the moment, and rumours abound of his lax attitude to training. I suppose Kidney is just resting Hayes for the 2 big games, and also planning for the future when he won't be around, although whether that future is Buckley I'm not too sure. Good to see Jennings and Heaslip in the back row, 2 players in very good form this year...

Podge_irl

RuggieBear wrote: »

Delighted to see Earls start.

The team has a good blend of experience and those needing game time

Surely Earls and Kearney should be the other way round though? Kearney is clearly the better fullback and I'd wager Earls is probably faster.

Also not entirely sure how Buckley goes from not making the Munster HEC 22, to getting his arse handed to him against Ulster to starting for Ireland?

Presumably Flannery, Ferris and Jennings are just getting a chance to show what they can do, while all could be bench options I can't see them as first choice at the moment. Its generally a good mix of a team though - enough first choice players to give the others a chance to show what they can do and makes sure they are ready for Argentina.

bamboozle

perhaps Buckley has been playing well in the AIL for Shannon??
suprised Court or Healy didnt get a look in for the Canada game. will be interesting to see if Ferris is any use, he's never really had a run of games with Ulster or Ireland but has all the attributes.
i'd have started Kearney at 15 and Earls at 11, still think Earls is far too slight to make it internationally.

Paulw

Let's just hope now that Canada put out a strong team, to give the Irish lads some good competition. I'm looking forward to the game. Hopefully there will be some good tries, and good solid defence from Ireland.

Pshan

Interesting selection, doubt anyone would have the same selection in their team sheet. Good to see Earls start but it probably means Kearney has to settle for the wing to facilitate him. Surprised at the back row that Wally didn't make it and it's not Munster sow grapes but again happy enough with the current combo to see how that works.

All in all a bit of change and hopfeully a move forward from our last few stagnant performances.

Roll on Saturday and C'mon Ireland.

Diom

My guess is that Kidney is looking at Dempsey/Murphy for FB and so is trying to get a feel for kearney on the wing. No other point in this setup because Earls is just not as good as the other 3 at FB, and Wallace and Fitzgerald are ahead of him at inside center.

The backrow forwards is an interesting combination and it'll be cool to see how they get on.

RuggieBear

to be honest i don't think wallace (or many of the others) has been dropped per se. More just to try out the fringe guys...

Sparky14

Nice mix in that team, tho can't understand why Earls and Kearney aren't switched. Can't ever really see Earls as a FB too short, always looks vulnerable under the high ball. I think we shud be looking at Earls on the wing, cos if hes gonna be challenging for a starting bearth this yr or next then thats where it will be. And Kearney should really be allowed to continue where he left off at FB.

zenmonk

Kearney is 3rd choice full back at Leinster after Dempsey and Nacewa when fit. Bizarre bu true.

MikeHoncho

zenmonk wrote: »

Kearney is 3rd choice full back at Leinster after Dempsey and Nacewa when fit. Bizarre bu true.

Not really.

anonymous_joe

That's oddly believable.

zenmonk

He said so himself in an interview in the Sunday Times.
Sounds frustrated on the wing.
All Blacks rate him highly at fb

RtD

Doesn't really matter anyway, both Kearney and Earls will be able to play at fullback against Canada, seeing as Horan will be minding the left wing

Shanegggg

Presumably Flannery, Ferris and Jennings are just getting a chance to show what they can do, while all could be bench options I can't see them as first choice at the moment. Its generally a good mix of a team though - enough first choice players to give the others a chance to show what they can do and makes sure they are ready for Argentina.[/QUOTE]

If not Flannery, the starting hooker for HEC champions, then who? Best? its not like ulster have been great this season and there aren't very many other options, sure Jackman is good in the loose but his lineouts are shocking!

As for the back three, I'm delighted Earls is starting, he definitely deserves it but Kearney is obviously better at 15 than Earls, or any other irish player for that matter. and its not like we don't have options at 15 so I dont see the need to try Earls there unless they just want to give him more ball, and as for him being to slight for international rugby? he's just as big as Fitzgerald who is palying in the centre where you need some strength and lets face it, they are only 21.

But i think every1 is missing the major flaw in the back three and thats Bowe, i hate quoting George Hook but he definitely doesn't have the pace for test rugby but i guess we dont have many options for an out and out winger and i'm glad to see the 12/13 combo we all wnt to see, especially with o'driscoll comin in to form and luke playin so wel this season, lets hope o'driscolls leg holds up tho

bleg

bamboozle wrote: »

perhaps Buckley has been playing well in the AIL for Shannon??
suprised Court or Healy didnt get a look in for the Canada game. will be interesting to see if Ferris is any use, he's never really had a run of games with Ulster or Ireland but has all the attributes.
i'd have started Kearney at 15 and Earls at 11, still think Earls is far too slight to make it internationally.

same weight as christian cullen, give or take a pound or two, same weight as christian cullen, give or take an inch.


i'd say the back 3 will fluctuate a lot, particluarly kearney and earls. who knows it could be a ploy by kidney, get the canadians to send up a few high balls expecting the inexperienced earls to be at FB but having kearney there instead. kind of the opposite to what mcgahan did earlier in the season.

regardless, there's a definite tactical reason for kidney picking the back 3 the way he did. i think it could be combination that will last for quite a while.

interesting to see o leary is left out. possibly because of injury? he did have a knock playing against sale and he sat out training this week due to a foot problem

Podge_irl

If not Flannery, the starting hooker for HEC champions, then who? Best? its not like ulster have been great this season and there aren't very many other options, sure Jackman is good in the loose but his lineouts are shocking!

A hooker does not an entire team make. Best should be the first choice option for hooker, Flannery has not been the same player since his shoulder op a year or so ago.

d-gal

great selection by kidney, nice blend. I presume he is starting earls at 15 and kearney at 11 simply because that has been their regular positions for the year. It would be stupid to play a person in a different position internationally compared to another position regional.
there could only be one or two changes for the main matches if all play well

phog

Great to see Earls get his first cap I wasn't expecting him to start and then at FB, really thought it would have gone to Kearney, I suppose Kidney is experimenting with the various combinations. Great selection and mix of experience and fresh faces.

Fozzie Bear

Agree with most posters here. Great blend of youth and experience and i'm really looking forward to seeing how Earls does at full back. He is pacy and agile and I would love to see him driving forward at every chance. A lot of exciting players in there with BOD, Dempsey, Earls and Kearney. Hopefully we will be capable of getting a handful of tries.

I seen Buckley on the news this evening and he looks like he has shed a power of weight. He is a big fella but i thought he was far too heavy earlier in the year for Munster. He is getting a chance now hopefully he will grab it as the Bull Hayes cannot have many more seasons at International level left in him.

Will be a great buzz around Thomond, I'd love to be there. Will be at the All Blacks game the following week hopefully we will be coming into this on the back of a good solid confidence building win.

Stev_o

Nice to see Earls start but at FB? Dunno both that seems really dodgy Kearney might have to cover him for the high balls because if they go up against him with decent chasers it ll make for alot of bouncing balls.

anonymous_joe

Just a quick question - anyone know what the Canada team is, and what sort of standard they're going to be? I'll freely confess I know next to nothing about North American rugby, and it's bugging me. ^^

Jello

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Dempsey

Isn't in the 22!


Glad to see Earls in there but would much rather see him on the wing with Kearney at FB. Great to see BOD and Fitz starting together too.

Really looking forward to this match now.

RugbyFanatic

Absolute joke that Kearney isn't starting at FB he is far superior to Earls at FB and Earls is faster surely any sane person would of put Kearney at FB and Earls on the wing!?!! I know its against Canada but I sincerly hope this isn't Kidneys starting team for the other 2 tests because Earls is going to be completely targeted and destroyed at FB! You cant start such an inexperienced player in such an important position against such quality opposition (referring to NZ match here) so lets hope this is just for Canada

Flannery starting?!?!?!? That is beyond ridiculous both Jackman and Best have played better this year by a mile. I am shocked he is starting.

And then onto Buckley. Hes not even in the Munster 22 and has been criticized for not making the effort in training and yet he starts? I mean wtf

phog

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Absolute joke that Kearney isn't starting at FB he is far superior to Earls at FB and Earls is faster surely any sane person would of put Kearney at FB and Earls on the wing!?!! I know its against Canada but I sincerly hope this isn't Kidneys starting team for the other 2 tests because Earls is going to be completely targeted and destroyed at FB! You cant start such an inexperienced player in such an important position against such quality opposition (referring to NZ match here) so lets hope this is just for Canada

Flannery starting?!?!?!? That is beyond ridiculous both Jackman and Best have played better this year by a mile. I am shocked he is starting.

And then onto Buckley. Hes not even in the Munster 22 and has been criticized for not making the effort in training and yet he starts? I mean wtf

I haven't heard McGahan or Kidney criticise him, where was this reported?

RugbyFanatic

phog wrote: »

I haven't heard McGahan or Kidney criticise him, where was this reported?

I believe Fischer said it to a group of reporters claiming Buckley wasn't working as hard as he should be.


Big thread on it at munsterfans.com
http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14540&PN=0&TPN=1

phog

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I believe Fischer said it to a group of reporters claiming Buckley wasn't working as hard as he should be.


Big thread on it at munsterfans.com
http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14540&PN=0&TPN=1

Nothing concrete there, is this more rumours like we had during the WC?

Stick to facts before over reacting to a team selection, I mean the chances are Kidney and his fellow coaches see these guys training so must be somewhat impressed by the guys.

Serenity Now!

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Flannery starting?!?!?!? That is beyond ridiculous both Jackman and Best have played better this year by a mile. I am shocked he is starting

He is getting a chance to stake a claim for the no.2 shirt. Dec Kidney has said it from the start that he intends to benefit from competition for places. I'm sure Gert Smal, a world cup winning coach, knows what he's doing.

Serenity Now!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Just a quick question - anyone know what the Canada team is, and what sort of standard they're going to be? I'll freely confess I know next to nothing about North American rugby, and it's bugging me. ^^

Its a fairly young squad and they just about beat Portugal after a horrendous journey to Europe

RugbyFanatic

phog wrote: »

Nothing concrete there, is this more rumours like we had during the WC?

Stick to facts before over reacting to a team selection, I mean the chances are Kidney and his fellow coaches see these guys training so must be somewhat impressed by the guys.

What are you talking about he was dropped from the Munster panel! Then Fischer made those comments! Every poster on munsterfans.com has the ability to read between the lines and have stated that it is quite obvious that Buckley wasn't performing!



Personally I think Kidney decided to go with players he knows well which is a shame because he should be picking the best.

RugbyFanatic

Serenity Now! wrote: »

He is getting a chance to stake a claim for the no.2 shirt. Dec Kidney has said it from the start that he intends to benefit from competition for places. I'm sure Gert Smal, a world cup winning coach, knows what he's doing.

I would hazard a quess that Kidney put his full support behind Flannery which would obviously influence Gert its the only conclusion I can draw as to why two players who have been playing far better find themselves behind Flannery.

If the no.2 shirt was to be picked on form this season it would be

1.Jackman
2.Best
3.Flannery

redroar1942

I'd have Best edging Jackman. Best has looked decent in a very average team and on the basis of their respective previous international performances Best is well ahead. Though I will concede that Jackman has hardly had much chance to prove himself at this level.

Serenity Now!

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I would hazard a quess that Kidney put his full support behind Flannery which would obviously influence Gert its the only conclusion I can draw as to why two players who have been playing far better find themselves behind Flannery.

If the no.2 shirt was to be picked on form this season it would be

1.Jackman
2.Best
3.Flannery

I dont think anyone posting in the forum is in a position to credibly speculate on how Dec Kidney or Gert Smal chooses a player.

RugbyFanatic

redroar1942 wrote: »

I'd have Best edging Jackman. Best has looked decent in a very average team and on the basis of their respective previous international performances Best is well ahead. Though I will concede that Jackman has hardly had much chance to prove himself at this level.

I think this season Jackman is ahead. What annoys me most though is when people point to Jackman's chance last season where he played exceptionally well around the park however his lineouts weren't good. What people just completely ignore though is that the line out itself was completely misfiring and no matter who came on as hooker the result was the same.

RugbyFanatic

Serenity Now! wrote: »

I dont think anyone posting in the forum is in a position to credibly speculate on how Dec Kidney or Gert Smal chooses a player.

I never stated in that post that it was credible speculation on my part I stated that I would hazard a quess that such was the case and that it was the only conclusion that I personally could draw.

redroar1942

I think you reaching a bit there. He gave a way a couple of idiotic penalties and there was a noted improvement in both scrum and lineout when Best came on in the French and Scotish games. Best is by far the top scrumager of the three. I'd rather have the best thrower/scrumager then a decent ball carrier, we have plenty of those in the pack already.

Look I think Jackman is a good player and did well to make it to international level. He looked doomed when he was banished to Connacht. But the reality of it is that if Flannery returns to form he has'nt a prayer of making the match day 22 and I think thats what Kidney might be hinting at by starting Flannery.

anonymous_joe

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Its a fairly young squad and they just about beat Portugal after a horrendous journey to Europe

Any of them playing for professional clubs or what?

RugbyFanatic

redroar1942 wrote: »

I think you reaching a bit there. He gave a way a couple of idiotic penalties and there was a noted improvement in both scrum and lineout when Best came on in the French and Scotish games. Best is by far the top scrumager of the three. I'd rather have the best thrower/scrumager then a decent ball carrier, we have plenty of those in the pack already.

Look I think Jackman is a good player and did well to make it to international level. He looked doomed when he was banished to Connacht. But the reality of it is that if Flannery returns to form he has'nt a prayer of making the match day 22 and I think thats what Kidney might be hinting at by starting Flannery.

I know what you are saying but I just dont feel that we should be playing players based on the hope that they will return to form. Kind of reminds you of EOS in the WC no?

In fairness I think the 3 of them have similar standard throwing. I think Best is the better scrummager, Jackman is better around the park. If Flannery hit the form he was in where he was better than Jackman and Best on all aspects I would certainly be screaming for his inclusion but the fact has this season he hasnt.

Maybe its just me but I feel Flannery starting isn't merited on this season's performances at least.

Teg Veece

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I would hazard a quess that Kidney put his full support behind Flannery which would obviously influence Gert its the only conclusion I can draw as to why two players who have been playing far better find themselves behind Flannery.

Or maybe it's because we're playing against a minnow team.

RugbyFanatic

Teg Veece wrote: »

Or maybe it's because we're playing against a minnow team.

Firstly I think its pretty obvious this is Kidney's first choice team considering the line up.

Secondly the fact that Jackman is not even in the 22 of this squad shows Best and Flannery are ahead of him.

redroar1942

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I know what you are saying but I just dont feel that we should be playing players based on the hope that they will return to form. Kind of reminds you of EOS in the WC no?

In fairness I think the 3 of them have similar standard throwing. I think Best is the better scrummager, Jackman is better around the park. If Flannery hit the form he was in where he was better than Jackman and Best on all aspects I would certainly be screaming for his inclusion but the fact has this season he hasnt.

Maybe its just me but I feel Flannery starting isn't merited on this season's performances at least.

I never thought I'd say it but I agree almost entirely with your post. We've seen what Jackman can do last season and he's easily good enough.Your right on performance's to date Jackman is playing better.It's just that we've seen little of Flannery for Ireland of late. Think of all the times Shane Horgan was playing averge for Leinster and then was suddenly he's superman in the green jersey.

Do you really think this is Kidneys first 15 for the Argie and AB's games?

Nukem

Lets not get into semantics over who is ahead of who because opinions and egos will be bruised and the thread will spiral.

Reckon that its a nice blend of experience and tactical stitching. Defensively thats some backrow and with Fitzgeral and BOD in the centers there is going to be very little room for maneuvering. Surprised Caldwell didn't get a nod with POC for experience , P.Wallace for centre would be my choice. Think he has shown all this season he is far more effective there and is very quick of the break or to be on shoulder for an offload.

Quite happy with that team, if there are one or two things I would tweak. All in all you have to say that he is doing what Steady never did - give guys a shot:D

thehighground

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Firstly I think its pretty obvious this is Kidney's first choice team considering the line up.

Secondly the fact that Jackman is not even in the 22 of this squad shows Best and Flannery are ahead of him.

Would not agree with you at all about this being the first XV. I certainly don't expect Earls to be starting against both the ABs and Argentenians.

I don't think that back row would be first choice either against the ABs (too inexperienced).

I would expect Paddy Wallace to start with BOD against the ABs. Tomas O'Leary will start as well if he is fit as he is better defensively than Eoin Reddan and is also a bit of an unknown quantity for the ABs.

I wouldn't disagree with you about Best & Flannery being ahead of Jackman, but as far as I can recall (possibly from a poster on Leinsterfans), I think Jackman is carrying an injury.

Heard Kidney saying he was trying to develop a panel of players which is what everyone has been crying out for. Mal, great servant and all that he was, won't have too much in the international tank left at this stage. You may think he is the best Irish lock at the moment and has outplayed all the rest, but at the end of the day the team that he was playing for lost to the team that the two selected play for fairly recently.

Sparky14

thehighground wrote: »

I would expect Paddy Wallace to start with BOD against the ABs. Tomas O'Leary will start as well if he is fit as he is better defensively than Eoin Reddan and is also a bit of an unknown quantity for the ABs.

Agree with you that this is not first choice 15, wouldn't expect Earls to start certainly not at Full Back. No Way Ferris, is ahead of Quinlan. Wallace will prob edge out Jennings as well.

Completely disagree with ur prediction that Kidney is holding back the uncapped O'Leary to unleash him on the Argies/All Blacks. The guy hasn't even been included in the 22.

thehighground

Sparky14 wrote: »

Agree with you that this is not first choice 15, wouldn't expect Earls to start certainly not at Full Back. No Way Ferris, is ahead of Quinlan. Wallace will prob edge out Jennings as well.

Completely disagree with ur prediction that Kidney is holding back the uncapped O'Leary to unleash him on the Argies/All Blacks. The guy hasn't even been included in the 22.

He was injured in the Sale game (foot) and has been sitting out training. O'Leary would be ahead of Reddan at the moment, but for his injury.

corny

thehighground wrote: »

Would not agree with you at all about this being the first XV. I certainly don't expect Earls to be starting against both the ABs and Argentenians.

I don't think that back row would be first choice either against the ABs (too inexperienced).

I would expect Paddy Wallace to start with BOD against the ABs. Tomas O'Leary will start as well if he is fit as he is better defensively than Eoin Reddan and is also a bit of an unknown quantity for the ABs.

I wouldn't disagree with you about Best & Flannery being ahead of Jackman, but as far as I can recall (possibly from a poster on Leinsterfans), I think Jackman is carrying an injury.

Heard Kidney saying he was trying to develop a panel of players which is what everyone has been crying out for. Mal, great servant and all that he was, won't have too much in the international tank left at this stage. You may think he is the best Irish lock at the moment and has outplayed all the rest, but at the end of the day the team that he was playing for lost to the team that the two selected play for fairly recently.

I don't agree or disagree but what does a single team result have to do with national selection? Surely his ability and performances and not his teams results should be the issue?

RugbyFanatic

redroar1942 wrote: »

I never thought I'd say it but I agree almost entirely with your post. We've seen what Jackman can do last season and he's easily good enough.Your right on performance's to date Jackman is playing better.It's just that we've seen little of Flannery for Ireland of late. Think of all the times Shane Horgan was playing averge for Leinster and then was suddenly he's superman in the green jersey.

Point taken.

Do you really think this is Kidneys first 15 for the Argie and AB's games?

I think other than Ferris and Buckley this will be Kidney's first 15. I am hoping he will take a gamble in starting Earls but on the wing not at FB!

thehighground

corny wrote: »

I don't agree or disagree but what does a single team result have to do with national selection? Surely his ability and performances and not his teams results should be the issue?

Sure, it matters. But team performance is far more important. Everyone admires Munster for its great team performance and the fact that its performance is far greater than the sum of its parts.

And Mal's age of course is a factor. For example, Buckley hasn't been playing well, yet he is going in before Hayes because the Bull is getting on and we need to bring on replacements.

RugbyFanatic

thehighground wrote: »

Would not agree with you at all about this being the first XV. I certainly don't expect Earls to be starting against both the ABs and Argentenians.

I really am hoping he does not at FB though. Its a gamble but a gamble I think is worth the risk if he can perform the Argies and ABs won't know what hit them.

I don't think that back row would be first choice either against the ABs (too inexperienced).

I can't see Ferris starting but honestly I can see Jennings and Heaslip starting.

I would expect Paddy Wallace to start with BOD against the ABs. Tomas O'Leary will start as well if he is fit as he is better defensively than Eoin Reddan and is also a bit of an unknown quantity for the ABs.

I hope not. I believe Fitz is more than ready to step up against the big boys though in fairness to Wallace he has been playing decent for Ulster

I wouldn't disagree with you about Best & Flannery being ahead of Jackman, but as far as I can recall (possibly from a poster on Leinsterfans), I think Jackman is carrying an injury.

Ah wasn't aware.

Heard Kidney saying he was trying to develop a panel of players which is what everyone has been crying out for. Mal, great servant and all that he was, won't have too much in the international tank left at this stage. You may think he is the best Irish lock at the moment and has outplayed all the rest, but at the end of the day the team that he was playing for lost to the team that the two selected play for fairly recently.

I don't really feel he should be discounted because his team lost. I simply feel at the very least MOK should be in the 22. Start him against NZ, if he cant keep up take him off or alternatively bring him on against NZ and if he does well start him against Argentina it doesnt really matter but what does matter is that on this season's fine form he should at least be given the benefit of the doubt that he can carry this current form to the international stage.