Foglights on Today FM now

vibe666

everyone thinking that fogs being on isn't a problem is assuming that everyone's vision is the same and that because THEY aren't dazzled by fog lights tha nobody else is and that people are just making a big fuss over nothing.

the fact that the more lightas you have on may be better for your visibility does not mean it's better for everyone else.

i heard a statistic years ago that always stuck with me and that was that 2/3rd's of drivers would have failed their test if it had been taken at night due to impaired visibility.

the fact remains that a lot of people DO find front fogs dazzling. my eyesight is almost perfect but I quite often find myself dazzled by front fogs, even tho I'm in a 4x4 and a lot higher off the road than most other road users so if it's dazzling me I'm sure it's dazzling a lot of other drivers too.

if you're on an unlit road with no cars around I don't care if you use 10 pairs of fog lights off a fecking lighthouse, but when you are sharing the road with other road users they are unnecessary and a hazard to other road users, not to mention illegal (isn't it?) so stop fecking doing it, end of story.

and comparing the 30-40% of road users who reguarly dazzle everyone else all night on the road with maybe 1-5% of people who don't use their lights at dusk is hardly a fair comparison.

something else worth mentioning is that in the 7+ years I've been living in Ireland I've only very rarely actually seen what I would consider to be proper fog. I've seen plenty of mist, and even 'almost' fog a few times too, but imho its very rare to see proper fog in Ireland that would reduce visibility that much. seems like nobody really knows the difference between a bit of light mist and proper fog.

jonathan11

I'm regular user of my front fog lights at nighttime. In my own car, they seem to be directed at the ground in front of the car and slightly off to the sides. This lights up the side of the road well and makes it easier to spot pedestrians etc. etc. Its a practical thing, I'm not trying to look cool :cool:

I don't find front fogs dazzling, except maybe badly fitted after market ones. To be honest rear fogs, badly alligned headlights, no headlights, cars/4x4s towing heavy trailers, xenons etc. would be much higher on my list of pet-hates..

Anan1

jonathan11 wrote: »

I'm regular user of my front fog lights at nighttime. In my own car, they seem to be directed at the ground in front of the car and slightly off to the sides. This lights up the side of the road well and makes it easier to spot pedestrians etc. etc. Its a practical thing, I'm not trying to look cool :cool:

I'll say it again, for those of us who didn't get it the first time: Front fog lights are dangerous because they interfere with our perception of distance. Using foglights when there's no fog is not practical, and it's not cool - it's just dangerous & inconsiderate.

craichoe

I always use my running lights, increased visibility and its a rule i picked up from motorbike driving.

Normal lamps on lowbeam vs running lights on the right

listermint

Mis-alligned lights and Xenon lights are the culprit here. Anyone who says otherwise hasnt got a clue. ( this "dazzling" qualifies as waffle. It has nothing to do with eyesight its pure misallignment which should be picked by NCT)

Rear fogs should be off unless weather dictates

Any additional light based on it being properly aligned and not overpowering (XENON) can never be a bad thing.

Be seen not missed!!!

vibe666

listermint wrote: »

Be seen not missed!!!

that's what headlights are for, don't try and use some false pretence of road safety to cover up your ignorance of other road users.

the fact that so many people on this thread alone find fog lights dazzling seems to leave your 'waffle' statement holding no water and nullify your assertion that it's only misaligned lights that should be picked up by the NCT that are dazzling. If that was the case then we really wouldn't be having this debate now would we?

if people can't see you at night with just your dipped headlights turned on then fog lights are the least of your problems.

the fact remains that they are called "FOG" lights to be used when there is "FOG". how hard is that for people to comprehend?

maybe if people insist on endangering other road users by using them when it isn't foggy we should just start calling them "ignorant prick lights" and be done with it.

Redderneck

Anan1 wrote: »

I'll say it again, for those of us who didn't get it the first time: Front fog lights are dangerous because they interfere with our perception of distance. Using foglights when there's no fog is not practical, and it's not cool - it's just dangerous & inconsiderate.

Anan1 - apols of you've outlined this earlier/before, but can you elaborate on how they interfere with distance perception? (Genuinely curious here).

L1011

Redderneck wrote: »

Anan1 - apols of you've outlined this earlier/before, but can you elaborate on how they interfere with distance perception? (Genuinely curious here).

Lower to the ground, so they appear to be headlights of a car in the further distance.

andrewh5

People, the fact remains that using front fog lights in anything other than fog or falling snow is ILLEGAL! What part of that simple statement do you front fog light users not understand? Turn the damn things off!

Wertz

MYOB wrote: »

Lower to the ground, so they appear to be headlights of a car in the further distance.

Add to this that on certain cars the fogs can be closer together than the main beams...and in the case where you happen upon some fool with their fogs and sides on at night, the car can look like it's a good bit further away than what it actually is...if you're trying to make it across a busy junction, an error of judgement on the distance and closing speed of this car could be fatal.

MYOB

MYOB wrote: »

Lower to the ground, so they appear to be headlights of a car in the further distance.

But the low beams will still be on in most cases and this will prevent any distance perception problems.

L1011

Joy Loud Upstart wrote: »

But the low beams will still be on in most cases and this will prevent any distance perception problems.

You could still assume its two cars at different distances in this case. Less likely to cause you to pull out, but still a danger.

Wertz

Joy Loud Upstart wrote: »

But the low beams will still be on in most cases and this will prevent any distance perception problems.

What if the roads are wet? You then end up with 4 sets of lights (2 real ones, 2 reflections). What if there are multiple cars tailing each other all with their fogs on?
All some of us are trying to say is that it makes things more difficult and hence more dangerous on the roads for no discernible benefit...

su_dios

MYOB wrote: »

You could still assume its two cars at different distances in this case. Less likely to cause you to pull out, but still a danger.

That would only be the case where someone is using parking lights and fogs together. If using dipped lights they both would give off fairly similar light. If you are making this mistake in normal conditions then you would definitely need your eyes checked. This would then be a huge problem in heavy rain or fog..which is what they're intended for. I could understand the arguement where say the fogs are more like spots and mounted on the grill in a 'rally' style or afaik on some of the mk2 golfs?(open to correction there).

So are the same people that rule these out then against using them in heavy rain (considering we don't get much fog but our rain can seriously reduce visibility)?

Would I be right in assuming then that the people in this thread find them more annoying at night than they do during the day(alongside drls as they won't light anything up just make the car visible to others)? Genuine answers please

GreeBo

I will flash my front fogs (rather than my fulls) in a (usually futile) attempt to let these people know they are on.

When they are behind you there is not much you can do as flashing your rear fogs just looks like you are hitting the brakes.

However, if I had to choose one I would prefer front fogs to be on rather than misaligned blinders. They are impossible to drive in front of and as bad as fulls when they are against you.

Xensons should just be outlawed. They change colour all the damn time and it looks like everyone is flashing everyone else. Normal head lights are perfectly fine.

Wertz

Factory fitted xenons are fine, except maybe on high vehicles like SUVs...it's poor after market fittings where a halogen should be that cause the problems.

As for flashing front fog users? Waste of time, since I reckon the most of them don't even know that they have them on and the rest of them don't care...

GreeBo

Do the factory fitted ones not also change colour though (white to blue to grey)?
I find that very annoying and very distracting!

Wertz

Probably depends on the car/model...and on the qualities of the glass used in the housing. All I know is that factory fits don't really annoy me, either through dazzle or colour change but aftermarket kits do...

Voodoomelon

Range Rovers are b*stards for that...

congo_90

some cars have the switches mounted on the dash which is the case in my car (accent). Recently I had a passenger who asked why my lights are there on not on the "stick thingy" as she put it.

From what i've gathered recently a lot of people believe them to be 'spot lights' or even sport lights?

Next rant is people driving on sidelights/parking lights and fogs but not dipped beams or even high beams at night which again could be due to idiots who have a similar light layout to mine (which is actually a simple one)

Voodoomelon

I've never seen so much complaining in all my life. I admit to having my foglights on all the time, day and night as they let me be seen and offer great peripheral light at nighttime. Front fog lights have NEVER dazzled me if they are factory fittings, its the aftermarket crap that is dazzling and even then "dazzling" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I would not have my foglights on if I thought it would encourage a dangerous habit of dazzling of other drivers by other people. My foglights are not dazzling as I have seen other people driving my car. 95% of front foglights are not dazzling to me or anyone else I know, its the fools driving around with misaligned headlights that are the dangerous ones, some of whom are more than likely the ones giving out about foglights as roughly 1 in 5 cars around me are misaligned.

My foglights are low wattage, low glare and yes I think the car looks better with them on. I have never had someone flash me, or anyone I know ask me why I had them on, infact i'm amazed this thread even exists. If a Garda told me to switch them off at a checkpoint, I would do so and turn them back on a mile down the road. Just because the odd rehab installs cheap eBay fogs or xenon or white bulbs, does not mean my foglights are dangerous, because they aren't.

Tropheus

Anan1 wrote: »

I'll say it again, for those of us who didn't get it the first time: Front fog lights are dangerous because they interfere with our perception of distance. Using foglights when there's no fog is not practical, and it's not cool - it's just dangerous & inconsiderate.

+1

congo_90

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I've never seen so much complaining in all my life. I admit to having my foglights on all the time, day and night as they let me be seen and offer great peripheral light at nighttime. Front fog lights have NEVER dazzled me if they are factory fittings, its the aftermarket crap that is dazzling and even then "dazzling" is a bit of an exaggeration.

If you want to be more visible use your dipped beams which you are supposed to by peripheral light you mean 3 foot forward and immediatly to your left and right where your eyes shouldnt be? if your consistently looking there then your not watching the road ahead.

Front fog lights never dazzled you? :eek: must be wearing sunglasses or drive once a year.

Yes it can make a car look good but ffs please consider my above points particularly the dipped beams which will catch a pedestrian/cyclists attention easier.

Last point not trolling @voodoomelon here;

fog lights are used for guess... fog! (the clue is in the name) Would you use your handbrake to stop the car instead of a foot brake because it "can stop the car its only a brake"....

P.C.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I've never seen so much complaining in all my life. I admit to having my foglights on all the time, day and night as they let me be seen and offer great peripheral light at nighttime. Front fog lights have NEVER dazzled me if they are factory fittings, its the aftermarket crap that is dazzling and even then "dazzling" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I would not have my foglights on if I thought it would encourage a dangerous habit of dazzling of other drivers by other people. My foglights are not dazzling as I have seen other people driving my car. 95% of front foglights are not dazzling to me or anyone else I know, its the fools driving around with misaligned headlights that are the dangerous ones, some of whom are more than likely the ones giving out about foglights as roughly 1 in 5 cars around me are misaligned.

My foglights are low wattage, low glare and yes I think the car looks better with them on. I have never had someone flash me, or anyone I know ask me why I had them on, infact i'm amazed this thread even exists. If a Garda told me to switch them off at a checkpoint, I would do so and turn them back on a mile down the road. Just because the odd rehab installs cheap eBay fogs or xenon or white bulbs, does not mean my foglights are dangerous, because they aren't.

They distract me.

And get over yourself about the car 'looking better with them on'.

Do you think it against the law to drive around with them on for a joke?

Voodoomelon

My fog lights are elongated rectangular shaped so offer much more peripheral light than "spotlights", they cover the ground very nicely and make the road's surface much more visible.
I'm not going to argue the rights and wrongs of the use of foglights, as its clear as to what they should be used for, but as I say, mine aren't dazzling or dangerous so I will continue to use them.

And no, I am never dazzled by them, like I said, I can't believe that so many people "are". I think many of the people that find them dazzling are more concerned with them "being on when they shouldn't be" and hence make the connection that they're dazzling.

These lights are even marketed as being "cool to have" and "enhancing the look of the car" BY THE CAR MANUFACTURERS (not shouting, emphasising). Why are a safety aid for harsh weather conditions optional on so many cars? Why do more expensive, desirable cars have them as standard? Why do all sport versions of cars have front fog lights? Why do all coupés have foglights? You can't blame the driver 100% for having them on), the Irish driving public have been thought that front fogs are a fashion accessory and not something to be used only in foggy conditions.

Voodoomelon

P.C. wrote: »

They distract me.

And get over yourself about the car 'looking better with them on'.

Do you think it against the law to drive around with them on for a joke?

You're right, lock me up. And everyone else that has them on. It would be like banning bad driving on roundabouts, except that actually is dangerous.

congo_90

Voodoomelon wrote: »

And no, I am never dazzled by them, like I said, I can't believe that so many people "are". I think many of the people that find them dazzling are more concerned with them "being on when they shouldn't be" and hence make the connection that they're dazzling.

While not all fogs blind (and these i will admit i dont mind cos it doesnt bother me) I drive on country roads where misaligned headlights or bright fog lights can cause a glare similar to misaligned headlights

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Why are a safety aid for harsh weather conditions optional on so many cars? Why do more expensive, desirable cars have them as standard? Why do all sport versions of cars have front fog lights? Why do all coupés have foglights? You can't blame the driver 100% for having them on),

They're on all those cars for the reason in the first line of above quote which i will emphasise here:

Why are a safety aid for harsh weather conditions

Well yes you can blame the driver for them being on. Thats like saying you cant blame somebody for leaving car engine running and going into the shop only to find the car stolen... Is it the car manufacturers fault there?
Cars are designed for a level of common sense

Voodoomelon wrote: »

the Irish driving public have been thought that front fogs are a fashion accessory and not something to be used only in foggy conditions.

If that was the case then this thread would never have been started. It is only a minority of drivers who drive with fog lights.

How exactly do you know your not blinding/obscuring other drivers at all?

P.C.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

My fog lights are elongated rectangular shaped so offer much more peripheral light than "spotlights", they cover the ground very nicely and make the road's surface much more visible..

They still distract me!

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'm not going to argue the rights and wrongs of the use of foglights, as its clear as to what they should be used for, but as I say, mine aren't dazzling or dangerous so I will continue to use them..

But you are argueing.

I find them dazzling and dangerous, so why are you still using them??

Voodoomelon wrote: »

And no, I am never dazzled by them, like I said, I can't believe that so many people "are". I think many of the people that find them dazzling are more concerned with them "being on when they shouldn't be" and hence make the connection that they're dazzling.

I am happy that you are never dazzled by them, but I am.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

These lights are even marketed as being "cool to have" and "enhancing the look of the car" BY THE CAR MANUFACTURERS (not shouting, emphasising). Why are a safety aid for harsh weather conditions optional on so many cars? Why do more expensive, desirable cars have them as standard? Why do all sport versions of cars have front fog lights? Why do all coupés have foglights? You can't blame the driver 100% for having them on), the Irish driving public have been thought that front fogs are a fashion accessory and not something to be used only in foggy conditions.

Not optional on a lot of cars these days - even on a lot of 'cheap' cars they are standard, and note your use of the words 'saftey aid', it says a lot.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You're right, lock me up. And everyone else that has them on. It would be like banning bad driving on roundabouts, except that actually is dangerous.

Maybe if the law was enforced, and they gave out penalty points for the incorrect use of foglights it would do a lot to stop there missuse.

Voodoomelon

congo_90 wrote: »

While not all fogs blind (and these i will admit i dont mind cos it doesnt bother me) I drive on country roads where misaligned headlights or bright fog lights can cause a glare similar to misaligned headlights



They're on all those cars for the reason in the first line of above quote which i will emphasise here:
Well yes you can blame the driver for them being on. Thats like saying you cant blame somebody for leaving car engine running and going into the shop only to find the car stolen... Is it the car manufacturers fault there?
Cars are designed for a level of common sense



If that was the case then this thread would never have been started. It is only a minority of drivers who drive with fog lights.

How exactly do you know your not blinding/obscuring other drivers at all?

Because i've seen my car being driven by other people with them on, and as i stand by the side of the road with family members or friends or whoever they may be, the fogs don't dazzle anyone. Irish people having foglights on may be a bad habit from a rules of the road aspect, but I personally don't see it as being a dangerous one.

Misaligned headlight drivers are the ones that should be put of the road, the drivers of those cars must know they are misaligned with their headlight beam going above peoples bonnets or bonnet height on a wall or tree. Now that's maddening.

congo_90

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Because i've seen my car being driven by other people with them on,

to be honest i dont mind what car your drivin but for example my da drives a Fiat doblo and he has the same mindset as you until i told him one day when driving towards me how much of a glare his lights are. Perhaps you have a low, low bonnet

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Misaligned headlight drivers are the ones that should be put of the road, the drivers of those cars must know they are misaligned with their headlight beam going above peoples bonnets or bonnet height on a wall or tree. Now that's maddening.

while i dont approve people with misaligned headlights but sometimes its suttle and is involuntary unlike switching on fog lights which will blind people.

some people have fully loaded cars and dont know how to lower them from inside again not defending them.