What finally scuppered John McCain?

GuanYin

As someone who fullt intended to vote McCain before the Clinton-Obama race was even settled, I can easily reflect back on why I ended up voting for Obama.

I, like many other, liked and respected the senator McCain of old. Being honest, he was a liberal Republican and yes, even a maverick.

Watching him, one day at a time, morph from this figure to the grotesque GOP conservative lapdog that he became towards the end of the campaign was enough to turn off anyone.

How can you have faith in a president who doesn't even have the strength to stay true to their own values?

I stayed undecided until the debates, but really they only re-enforced my feelings, when I saw him make statements that he didn't seem convinced about, I knew then I could never vote for him.

I attended a party last night and surprised myself by feeling generally emotional when Obama made his way out on stage. There was a carnivale attitude here and while I think that the Southern states may be hurt by this for some time, the american people have spoken.

Macha

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I think the truth was the major casualty of this campaign..

Too right it was a major casualty. Words like "socialism" being bandied about with utter disregard for the true meaning of the word. Fact checker websites pointed out lies in all four candidates debates.

Undecided voters do not like negative campaigns and didn't care about things like Ayers. But that's all McCain had to offer.

randylonghorn

I don't think Palin was the major factor, but she certainly didn't help, and if there's any truth in this article, and presumably there's at least some, it's hardly the way to run a Presidential campaign ...

Tensions between McCain and Palin camps become more apparent ...

Excerpts:

Sarah Palin left the national stage Wednesday, but the controversy over her role on the ticket flared as aides to John McCain disclosed new details about her expensive wardrobe purchases and revealed that a Republican Party lawyer would be dispatched to Alaska to inventory and retrieve the clothes still in her possession.

...

The miscommunication and quarrels between the two camps lasted into Tuesday night, said McCain aides familiar with the situation. Palin arrived at the Arizona Biltmore planning to deliver a speech before McCain's concession speech, they said, but was told by senior McCain aides Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter that it would not be appropriate.

...

Fox News reported Wednesday that Palin's lack of knowledge on some topics also strained relations. Carl Cameron reported that campaign sources told him Palin had resisted coaching before her faltering Katie Couric interviews; did not understand that Africa was a continent rather than a country; and could not name the three nations that are part of the North American Free Trade Agreement -- the United States, Canada and Mexico.

For weeks, the McCain-Palin campaign has dealt with the fallout from the disclosure that the Republican National Committee was billed for $150,000 in wardrobe purchases for the Palin family -- a discovery that was widely ridiculed and undercut Palin's hockey mom appeal.
(Lots more about clothes)

...

Resentments had started to brew earlier. Palin was not comfortable with the team of handlers sent by party headquarters to manage her appearances, and there were frequent conflicts between the staff at headquarters and her traveling staff. Palin felt constrained by the fact that she had little decision-making power, and questioned the directions being given to her by the campaign, an aide said.

In an interview with CNN on Wednesday, Palin denied that there were tensions with the McCain camp. But that is at odds with accounts from aides on both sides. The strain worsened, the aides said, after Palin was recorded talking to a Canadian comedian who pretended to be French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

...

ilkhanid

"The media in the states is predominately left wing" ??
Not in the sense that we in Europe understand the phrase. It only appears to be so, in comparison to the views of Republicans which are far more to the right than most conservative parties in this part of the world.

Black Swan

The Palin Economy

dave2pvd

ilkhanid wrote: »

"The media in the states is predominately left wing" ??
Not in the sense that we in Europe understand the phrase. It only appears to be so, in comparison to the views of Republicans which are far more to the right than most conservative parties in this part of the world.

Europe is not the frame of reference.

jordano

Bush, definately.
And Oprah! The second I saw that she was backing Obama, I knew he would win!

Dublin's Finest

Definitely the economic sh*tstorm, which left him floundering.

In terms of contributing factors, I think Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama was significant in the latter stages. Powell is respected across party lines and particularly by McCain. it was a personal blow, as well as a political one.

It didn't help that the increasingly toxic Cheney publicly backed McCain either, at a time when he was struggling to distance himself from the Bush Administration's policies.

dave2pvd

Dublin's Finest wrote: »

Definitely the economic sh*tstorm, which left him floundering.

In terms of contributing factors, I think Colin Powell's endorsement of Obama was significant in the latter stages. Powell is respected across party lines and particularly by McCain. it was a personal blow, as well as a political one.

I've heard this from other folks 'back home'.

You would think, logically, that the Powell endorsement would be a big factor. 'Experts' at the time predicted as much. There were various reasons: increased military vote, quashes the 'inexperience' allegation, makes for a high-profile defection from the McCain/Repub stable,...etc.

Thing is, there was little or no bounce in the polls (despite polls in advance of Powell's endorsement saying there would be). I suspect that Powell's image/credibility overseas is a few ticks higher than it is in the US.

I also think that the endorsement mostly re-affirmed Obama voters' already drawn conclusions. A few undecideds were probably swayed. Maybe. Think about it though, if you were undecided at that point in the race, you were probably pretty uninformed and clueless to begin with. Would you even know much about Colin Powell? (Note: not all undecideds fit this category - allow me to generalize a bit here).

Campaign contributions soared right around that point in time. Probably erroneous to attribute that solely to the Powell attaboy.

At the back of my mind, I fear a lot of people here expected the black guy to endorse the black guy. Alas.

Powell's backing of Obama will go down in the history books as significant. Significant historically. It gave the media plenty to circus about - both in the US and overseas.

Bob Z

also i think the way McCain portrayed himself as a maverick didnt really ring true

dave2pvd

Bob Z wrote: »

also i think the way McCain portrayed himself as a maverick didnt really ring true

That part was rather sad.

He actually has been quite independent all along. Until he turned hard right last November.

JohnMc1

The economy did him him. The Democrats did a good job of putting the blame on the Republicans [Even though they deserve a great deal of the blame too] and the fact that McCain seemed to be phoning in his campaigns [Ie. He looked like he didn't want to be there] Plus all the local TV networks [The ones you don't need cable to watch] with the exception of Fox were all cheerleading for Obama from day 1.

Gov. Palin was a blessing rather than a curse. She was thrown in head first in a "Sink or Swim" situation that she was not ready for and managed to swim. She got **** on for the most obsene and ridiculous stuff while Democrats tend to start crying foul when relevant stuff like their voting records come up. She energized the crowds better than McCain did.

Ludo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The economy did him him. The Democrats did a good job of putting the blame on the Republicans [Even though they deserve a great deal of the blame too] and the fact that McCain seemed to be phoning in his campaigns [Ie. He looked like he didn't want to be there] Plus all the local TV networks [The ones you don't need cable to watch] with the exception of Fox were all cheerleading for Obama from day 1.

Agree with the economy part but as for the media part...I'll leave it to Shepard Smith of Fox to retort to that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKzS5Zl6mY

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Gov. Palin was a blessing rather than a curse. She was thrown in head first in a "Sink or Swim" situation that she was not ready for and managed to swim. She got **** on for the most obsene and ridiculous stuff while Democrats tend to start crying foul when relevant stuff like their voting records come up. She energized the crowds better than McCain did.

Swim...LOL. God help the GOP if this is what is classed as a possible future candidate.

JohnMc1

Ludo wrote: »

Agree with the economy part but as for the media part...I'll leave it to Shepard Smith of Fox to retort to that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKzS5Zl6mY

That has been proven true. CBS,CNN,NBC,etc ran alot more positive stuff about Obama than they did McCain. And they ran alot more negative stuff about McCain than they did about Obama. A bias clearly existed.

Swim...LOL. God help the GOP if this is what is classed as a possible future candidate.

I say God help Ireland every morning if scumbags like Brian Cowen and Mary Harney are considered the best of Ireland's political structure.

But seriously do really believe Gov. Palin is worse than Joe Biden the guy with permanent foot in mouth syndrome? I think you guys really need to get your info from unbiased info and make up your own minds.

topper75

Palin.

dave2pvd

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Gov. Palin was a blessing rather than a curse. She was thrown in head first in a "Sink or Swim" situation that she was not ready for and managed to swim. She got **** on for the most obsene and ridiculous stuff while Democrats tend to start crying foul when relevant stuff like their voting records come up. She energized the crowds better than McCain did.

You mean a blessing for the democrats?

Right after folks found out a bit about her (Palin interview), the McCain/Plain ticket lost support. And I agree, she did come out with obscene and ridiculous stuff.

I also agree that she energized crowds. Her crowds. Which were smaller than Obama's crowds.

JohnMc1

topper75 wrote: »

Palin.

its posts where I can see why Ireland is in the state its in. No sense whatsoever. Don't worry I'm sure Cowen and co. will fix things once you re-elect them again. After 15 years they're bound to get things right someday.

Ludo

JohnMc1 wrote: »

That has been proven true. CBS,CNN,NBC,etc ran alot more positive stuff about Obama than they did McCain. And they ran alot more negative stuff about McCain than they did about Obama. A bias clearly existed.

Well McCains campaign was negative and Obamas positive...that was reflected in the press maybe.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I say God help Ireland every morning if scumbags like Brian Cowen and Mary Harney are considered the best of Ireland's political structure.

Couldn't agree more.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

But seriously do really believe Gov. Palin is worse than Joe Biden the guy with permanent foot in mouth syndrome? I think you guys really need to get your info from unbiased info and make up your own minds.

Biden knows his stuff. I wouldn't particularly want him as president either but to he is in a different league to Palin. You are entitled to your opinion though but you appear to be in a very small minority. She will never win a presidential election because she has a very limited appeal to a niche corner of the electorate.

Lemming

JohnMc1 wrote: »

I think you guys really need to get your info from unbiased info and make up your own minds.

Unbiased info from where? Fox? ...

JohnMc1

Ludo wrote: »

Well McCains campaign was negative and Obamas positive...that was reflected in the press maybe.

I agree he should of focused on how he was going to fix the economy rather than harping on Wright,Ayers,etc. It did have the taint of desperation. He should of focused on how he would have fixed the economy and other important issues.

Couldn't agree more.

Thanks.

Biden knows his stuff. I wouldn't particularly want him as president either but to he is in a different league to Palin. You are entitled to your opinion though but you appear to be in a very small minority. She will never win a presidential election because she has a very limited appeal to a niche corner of the electorate.

You can say that about Obama too. Before this year the idea of a guy only serving in the Senate for 2 out of 4 years being elected President was a ridiculous idea.

JohnMc1

Lemming wrote: »

Unbiased info from where? Fox? ...

They are alot better than some other networks. The Obama lovers are just crying because they didn't worship at the altar of Obama. They were the no.1 network for election coverage [in other words people across America regardless of affiliation thought they were the best network covering the election.]

dave2pvd

JohnMc1 wrote: »

They are alot better than some other networks.

Subjective - you're entitled to that 1.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The Obama lovers are just crying because they didn't worship at the altar of Obama.

The 'Obama lovers' aren't crying. Well - maybe: tears of joy.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

They were the no.1 network for election coverage

They are the single right-wing TV media outlet. There are arguably 4 that cater to the left.

Can you see why they would be the no. 1?

JohnMc1 wrote: »

in other words people across America regardless of affiliation thought they were the best network covering the election.

Except the 53% who probably didn't think so.

JohnMc1

dave2pvd wrote: »

The 'Obama lovers' aren't crying. Well - maybe: tears of joy.

They'll be crying in a few months when they realize they won't be getting any more handouts and won't be able to freeload off the system.

dave2pvd

JohnMc1 wrote: »

They'll be crying in a few months when they realize they won't be getting any more handouts and won't be able to freeload off the system.

All right, I am an Obama lover. I'll admit.

Not looking for handouts. Not hoping to freeload.

Are you stereotyping? Or are you Sean Hannity? Both?

dave2pvd

Your username is out of date, by the way.

JohnMc2 perhaps?

CDfm

the fiat Punto as a campaign vehicle didnt help matters

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055410857

Rowley Birkin QC

CDfm wrote: »

the fiat Punto as a campaign vehicle didnt help matters

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055410857

JohnMc1

dave2pvd wrote: »

All right, I am an Obama lover. I'll admit.

Not looking for handouts. Not hoping to freeload.

Are you stereotyping? Or are you Sean Hannity? Both?

Was that your attempt at a joke? There are actual Obama supporters who actually think that just becasue he won they will no longer have to pay mortgages and never pay for gas again. Its nice that these people are happy that he won but they really need to come back to Earth and join the rest of humanity in the real world. With that mentality Obama is doomed to failure by his own supporters.

Regardless of who won last Tuesday everybody would of had to get up go to work and pay their bills. Obama [or McCain if things had been different] winning will have no direct impact on our lives [especially as far as mortgages,rent, paying for gas,etc is concerned]

dave2pvd wrote:

Your username is out of date, by the way.

Sure. if you say so. :rolleyes:

dave2pvd

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Was that your attempt at a joke? There are actual Obama supporters who actually think that just becasue he won they will no longer have to pay mortgages and never pay for gas again. Its nice that these people are happy that he won but they really need to come back to Earth and join the rest of humanity in the real world. With that mentality Obama is doomed to failure by his own supporters.

You implied that all 'Obama lovers' were of this mentality. You're wrong about that. Over-generalization like that weakens your already watery argument.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Regardless of who won last Tuesday everybody would of had to get up go to work and pay their bills. Obama [or McCain if things had been different] winning will have no direct impact on our lives [especially as far as mortgages,rent, paying for gas,etc is concerned]

Yep, I agree with you there. Do you think we should hug* ?





(*sorry, I'm a lib'rul - can't help it)

ilkhanid

"Don't worry I'm sure Cowen and co. will fix things once you re-elect them again. After 15 years they're bound to get things right someday."
Exactly. When you throw mud at a wall, some usually sticks. When they have exhausted all the wrong ways of doing things, they might find the right way eventually...by accident.