This "Munster" Crack !

cornbb

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Are you actually saying something is more attractive because a higher percentage of working class people play it? What is this? Class discrimination?

It doesn't matter what your income is you face the same challenges in a rugby match.

No, I'm saying its more attractive because its an everyman game down there and is the sport of the working class as well as the sport of the elitist tosser.

Des Hynes

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

As someone who was actively involved in schools senior cup rugby not just exposed I can without a shadow of a doubt say this is simply not the case.

Did you get bullied Xavi? It just seems you are bitter or something...

For someone who played Interprovincial schools rugby I can say it is.

The Mighty Ken

Xavi6 wrote: »

I had a lot of exposure to Senior Cup rugby and those lads didn't do the game any favours.

Exposure, yeah? Were you actively involved? Didn't work out, no? Were you crap?

Xavi6

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

As someone who was actively involved in schools senior cup rugby not just exposed I can without a shadow of a doubt say this is simply not the case.

Are you sure you aren't blinkered by being on the inside?

Did you get bullied Xavi? It just seems you are bitter or something...

Heh no.

And not bitter in the slightest. I like rugby in general (both codeds - the Ireland game this morning was fantastic) and have contributed in the forum on a number of occassions. I'm just giving my experiences with rugby playing folk. No need to take it so personally.

Noopti

Des Hynes wrote: »

Irish sides have a huge advantage in the Heineken Cup as the play as provinces against club sides.

They also have less domestic competition, furthermore they are comercially very well run enabling them to attract top class southern hemisphere players with huge contracts.

It's a bandwagon for middle class knobs.

Great achievement my arse.

Ireland has a much smaller player base than the likes of England and France, so it (like Wales and Scotland) need to pool resources into fewer teams...hence the provinces. This Provinces versus Club Sides is bull****e, if it was so one sided the provinces from Ireland, Wales and Scotland would be constantly winning the Heineken cup.

The Magners League schedule isn't hugely less demanding then the Guinness Premiership.
GP - 12 sides = 24 games per team
ML - 10 sides = 20 games per team

GP Playoffs - 4 teams in semi final, 2 teams in final, so 4 teams play an extra game, 2 play an extra 2 games.
Not much of a difference. They also play in the EDF cup with the welsh regions, but it is not really taken as seriously as the GP or the European Cup.

Onto your third "point"....they are commercially well run. Ok, I thought you were trying to criticize the provinces, maybe you got confused?
Anyway yes, the provinces (mainly Munster and Leinster) are well funded and have quite a bit of money to put towards signing high profile players. However, the French and English top clubs have more money, so your point is moot.

Xavi6

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Exposure, yeah? Were you active involved? Didn't work out, no? Were you crap?

Never played. Soccer and GAA man.

Another one resorting to personal digs because someone questions the merits of their sport. The cynic in me would suggest Roid Rage. Thankfully though I'm not feeling cynical today.

stovelid

Was the OP a cunning ploy to allow rugger knobjockeys into AH?

Might I suggest:

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=388

for all your egg-ball and plebian-dissing needs?

The Mighty Ken

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm just giving my experiences with rugby playing folk.

You're not really. You're just mouthing off. Go on. Share your experiences with the class. Tell us how you can make a sweeping generalisation like that and justify it. We're all listening.

The Mighty Ken

Xavi6 wrote: »

Another one resorting to personal digs because someone questions the merits of their sport. The cynic in me would suggest Roid Rage. Thankfully though I'm not feeling cynical today.

Accusing me of taking steriods. Brilliant. Obviously a well educated man. So exposure. Go on. Fill us in. Or are you just talking utter nonsense?

Xavi6

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

You're not really. You're just mouthing off. Go on. Share your experiences with the class. Tell us how you can make a sweeping generalisation like that and justify it. We're all listening.

'Mouthing off'? I never resorted to direct insults unlike your good self.

I hung around with a lot of lads who played schools and my long term girlfriend's family were/are heavily involved in it as well. As I said, my experiences weren't good. Sorry if that's not ok with you.

RugbyFanatic

cornbb wrote: »

No, I'm saying its more attractive because its an everyman game down there and is the sport of the working class as well as the sport of the elitist tosser.

Its an every mans game in Dublin as well. Its not like the IRFU bans people from playing the only reason it hasn't taken off in more working class areas is because of the stranglehold that the GAA has over these areas. It's not like you need a lot of money to play all you need is a ball,boots and gumshield.

You'd swear from your posts that rugby outside of Limerick is as out of reach as polo to the ordinary man.

RugbyFanatic

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Accusing me of taking steriods. Brilliant. Obviously a well educated man. So exposure. Go on. Fill us in. Or are you just talking utter nonsense?

All rugby players take steroids you should know that Mighty Ken.

stovelid

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Its not like the IRFU bans people from playing the only reason it hasn't taken off in more working class areas is because of the stranglehold that the GAA has over these areas. It's not like you need a lot of money to play all you need is a ball,boots and gumshield.

Soccer is more popular than gah in 'working class' areas, despite also being a British sport and probably being even more despised by the Gah than Rugby.

RugbyFanatic

Xavi6 wrote: »

'Mouthing off'? I never resorted to direct insults unlike your good self.

I hung around with a lot of lads who played schools and my long term girlfriend's family were/are heavily involved in it as well. As I said, my experiences weren't good. Sorry if that's not ok with you.

So you are willing to generalize about over 20,000 people? (playing population of rugby) as well as the hundreds of thousands that watch it regularly over the experiences you had with a few lads at school and some relatives of your girlfriend?

Des Hynes

Noopti wrote: »

Ireland has a much smaller player base than the likes of England and France, so it (like Wales and Scotland) need to pool resources into fewer teams...hence the provinces. This Provinces versus Club Sides is bull****e, if it was so one sided the provinces from Ireland, Wales and Scotland would be constantly winning the Heineken cup.

The Magners League schedule isn't hugely less demanding then the Guinness Premiership.
GP - 12 sides = 24 games per team
ML - 10 sides = 20 games per team

GP Playoffs - 4 teams in semi final, 2 teams in final, so 4 teams play an extra game, 2 play an extra 2 games.
Not much of a difference. They also play in the EDF cup with the welsh regions, but it is not really taken as seriously as the GP or the European Cup.

Onto your third "point"....they are commercially well run. Ok, I thought you were trying to criticize the provinces, maybe you got confused?
Anyway yes, the provinces (mainly Munster and Leinster) are well funded and have quite a bit of money to put towards signing high profile players. However, the French and English top clubs have more money, so your point is moot.

Why then were the English and French sides threatening to pull out of the HC because of the Irish sides unfair advantage a couple of years ago?

Also I would like to know how you have come to the conclusion that the French & England sides have more money?

RugbyFanatic

stovelid wrote: »

Soccer is more popular than gah in 'working class' areas, despite also being a British sport and probably being even more despised by the Gah than Rugby.

That is universally the case around the world it has nothing to do with rugby being elitist.

Back in the day GAA schools banned rugby and discouraged those who wanted to play. You look at GAA based schools even today refusing to play rugby yet rugby schools all play GAA that has more to do with the GAA BEING ELITIST!

In every area soccer is more popular that includes areas such as Blackrock where not everyone will support rugby but EVERYONE has a football team

Xavi6

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

So you are willing to generalize about over 20,000 people? (playing population of rugby) as well as the hundreds of thousands that watch it regularly over the experiences you had with a few lads at school and some relatives of your girlfriend?

*sigh* I said my experiences weren't great. I also said I like rugby as a sport. Why are you taking it to heart?

Is it ok for to make generalisation about soccer like you did in an earlier post based on your experiences?

stovelid

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

That is universally the case around the world it has nothing to do with rugby being elitist.

In every area soccer is more popular that includes areas such as Blackrock where not everyone will support rugby but EVERYONE has a football team

Sure, but your point was the Gah stop non-indigenous sports like Rugby taking off in working class areas which is not really the case. If the Galiban had that kind of clout, they would have killed off football in those areas long before now.

RugbyFanatic

Xavi6 wrote: »

*sigh* I said my experiences weren't great. I also said I like rugby as a sport. Why are you taking it to heart?

Is it ok for to make generalisation about soccer like you did in an earlier post based on your experiences?

It wasn't a generalisation about soccer I was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who would call rugby a soft sport when clearly there is A LOT more physical contact in rugby and it is far, far tougher than soccer.

RugbyFanatic

stovelid wrote: »

Sure, but your point was the Gah stop non-indigenous sports like Rugby taking off in working class areas which is not really the case. If the Galiban had that kind of clout, they would have killed off football in those areas long before now.

The fact is they couldn't. Believe me they wanted to but football is on another podium completely world over in terms of popularity

everyone I know that plays rugby plays soccer ocassionally ditto for GAA.

I don't know many GAA players that play rugby nor do I know that many rugby players that play GAA though there is still quite a few.

Redderneck

Des Hynes wrote: »

Why then were the English and French sides threatening to pull out of the HC because of the Irish sides unfair advantage a couple of years ago?

Also I would like to know how you have come to the conclusion that the French & England sides have more money?

The French an English were using ERC participation as a cudgel in their own battles for increased funding and/or control over player contracts with their domestic unions.

The top French sides have budgets comfortably (massively, in fact) in excess of the Provinces. The top English sides would as far as I know have funding which is at the very least on par with, if not exceeding the Provinces. Cannot be arsed googling the numbers, but they are out there for anyone so inclined.

If the success of the Irish provinces in rugby union gets on your goat, then can I suggest you invesy your energy in promoting whichever sport, if any, you find more palatable, rather than knock other's sucess.

Xavi6

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

It wasn't a generalisation about soccer I was pointing out the hypocrisy of those who would call rugby a soft sport when clearly there is A LOT more physical contact in rugby and it is far, far tougher than soccer.

On that there can be no argument and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

I'll open a can of worms though by saying soccer is more skillful (IN MY OPINION before I inevitably get lynched)

RugbyFanatic

Xavi6 wrote: »

On that there can be no argument and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

I'll open a can of worms though by saying soccer is more skillful (IN MY OPINION before I inevitably get lynched)

I would say they are similar. At the end of the day crosses can be compared to out of hand kicking. Passes compared to passes. Flicks etc. compared to Sidestepping, dummies etc. freekicks compared to Penalties

you get the point

Xavi6

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I would say they are similar. At the end of the day crosses can be compared to out of hand kicking. Passes compared to passes. Flicks etc. compared to Sidestepping, dummies etc. freekicks compared to Penalties

you get the point

Hmmmm I suppose.

So why do you think it is that soccer is on a pedistal? Is it the simple fact that it is more accessible? Is it all about exposure? Is soccer 'easier' to learn to play?

Noopti

Des Hynes wrote: »

Why then were the English and French sides threatening to pull out of the HC because of the Irish sides unfair advantage a couple of years ago?

Also I would like to know how you have come to the conclusion that the French & England sides have more money?

The top French and English sides are not poorer than Munster or Leinster, I'm also pretty sure that Stade Francais are one of the richest sides in the Northern Hemisphere. So even if the top GP and French clubs are not richer, they are certainly on a par.

Also, the French and English clubs threatened to pull out over voting rights and fixture congestion, not because the Irish provinces had an advantage due to being a province. Read up before making incorrect statements to back up your arguments.

Redderneck

Xavi6 wrote: »

On that there can be no argument and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

I'll open a can of worms though by saying soccer is more skillful (IN MY OPINION before I inevitably get lynched)

Don't think it's a valid comparison, skillswise. Not apples with oranges. For what it's worth, the most intimidated, physically, I have ever felt on any pitch, was when filling in on my scool's soccer team and being face with a pretty big guy who could have slide tackled the Twin Towers back upright if he'd been there. So the physical contact side isn't exactly as clearcut/valid either. Soccer can be brutal.

Doc

Des Hynes wrote: »

Why then were the English and French sides threatening to pull out of the HC because of the Irish sides unfair advantage a couple of years ago?

Also I would like to know how you have come to the conclusion that the French & England sides have more money?

Thats not why they where pulling out it was about money notting else.


I have played in both Dublin and Limerick and have to say that in Dublin I would agree that a lot of people involved in the sport are a bit Elitist / Snobby but this is generally people who have gone to the rugby playing, fee paying schools.

They bring this snobbery into the sport it is true. It is not true though for all clubs in Dublin and I have played for a couple that could in no way be described as elitist or snobby. In limerick it was all about the game not what school you went to. I love the sport and when people are passionate about anything it often means they will get on your nerves if you don’t have the same feelings as them but I totally disagree with the OP and with the opinion of others that it is an elitist sport. It isn’t there are just some d!ckheads that follow it like in every sport. It just so happens these d!ckheads are snobby.

FlutterinBantam

Look to get back to point of the thread, I was unfortunate enough to be returning from Birmingham Airport while the Munster "Army" were returning home from some game .

After about one hour in their company I admitted to myself that I had never come across such a shower of self opinionated, arrogant,and ignorant jerks in all my life.

They took over a small bar and the women were loud shrill and spoke in accents that were obviously put on whilst the men were obviously professionals/small businessmen/big farmers who bulled their way to the bar,shouted orders from the back,one guy even headed for the jacks and before he was 5 metres from the DOORhad his chopper out and was spraying piss as he walked!!!

Never again, conduct on the plane was terrible and they apparently were making a connection in Dublin so God help the poor bar staff there......Uuuugh

RoosterIllusion

I am not a Munster fan though I'm from Cork. I just don't follow the team, the same way I don't have to support Cork City FC.

The slogans, posters and most of all the merchandise is really annoying to me. Just as wearing a man united jersey was the big thing in the early 90's (at least it as when I was in primary school) the munster merchandise fad is definitely in full swing at the moment.

I don't mind who supports Munster or who doesn't, that doesn't bother me in the slightest, and it's not a case of certain people being real fans or genuine fans and some people not being fans. What bothers me is the whole advertising campaign and the general Munster ads saturating everything. Jesus you'd swear they were running for TD :P

Noopti

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Look to get back to point of the thread, I was unfortunate enough to be returning from Birmingham Airport while the Munster "Army" were returning home from some game .

After about one hour in their company I admitted to myself that I had never come across such a shower of self opinionated, arrogant,and ignorant jerks in all my life.

They took over a small bar and the women were loud shrill and spoke in accents that were obviously put on whilst the men were obviously professionals/small businessmen/big farmers who bulled their way to the bar,shouted orders from the back,one guy even headed for the jacks and before he was 5 metres from the DOORhad his chopper out and was spraying piss as he walked!!!

Never again, conduct on the plane was terrible and they apparently were making a connection in Dublin so God help the poor bar staff there......Uuuugh

I encountered similar behavior in the airport, from a stag party. Maybe I should say that anyone who has been on a stag party is an ignorant, insulting, loud and disgusting prick? Or maybe not?

I will choose the latter option.....

keane2097

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

So you are willing to generalize about over 20,000 people? (playing population of rugby) as well as the hundreds of thousands that watch it regularly over the experiences you had with a few lads at school and some relatives of your girlfriend?

Dude your question essentially amounts to:

"Are you really basing your opinion on your experiences?"

I mean this really is a futile argument. You're basically telling Xavi to ignore what he has seen himself with his own two eyes and rely on this worn out old notion that the vast majority of people in any given group are lovely.

You see, I'm always extremely skeptical about people whose defence of their point of view is "You're generalising a load of people based on your experiences with a few".

This is a canned argument that can be used as a salvation for any horrible shower of fcukers assuming you can prove we haven't met every last one of them.

See, when I hear the same old argument "You probably just came across the few bad apples who are giving the rest a bad name" I always get to wondering:

Where are all the good apples, and why are you hiding them?

Noopti

Maybe the good apples aren't a noticeable.

RugbyFanatic

Xavi6 wrote: »

Hmmmm I suppose.

So why do you think it is that soccer is on a pedistal? Is it the simple fact that it is more accessible? Is it all about exposure? Is soccer 'easier' to learn to play?

I feel soccer is easier to learn but also the fact that you don't need bigger numbers to play it. I am not talking about 11 vs 15 here I am talking about the fact that you can mess around yourself with a soccer ball playing keepy uppys or whatever and have fun

Add to that the exposure.

The Mighty Ken

Xavi6 wrote: »

I hung around with a lot of lads who played schools and my long term girlfriend's family were/are heavily involved in it as well. As I said, my experiences weren't good. Sorry if that's not ok with you.

Hahaha. No, that's fine with me. Come on then... indulge me. What was wrong with them? What did they do to you? Regail us with anecdotes of these vile rugby lads. Like I said, we're listening.

stovelid

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Hahaha. No, that's fine with me. Come on then... indulge me. What was wrong with them? What did they do to you? Regail us with anecdotes of these vile rugby lads. Like I said, we're listening.

Regale.

What are those fee-paying schools teaching you lot these days?

The Mighty Ken

stovelid wrote: »

Regale.

What are those fee-paying schools teaching you lot these days?

Correcting spellings on a Web forum. Good for you. Keep it up.

Xavi6

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Hahaha. No, that's fine with me. Come on then... indulge me. What was wrong with them? What did they do to you? Regail us with anecdotes of these vile rugby lads. Like I said, we're listening.

I never said they were vile. They were self centred and up themselves and thought that the Senior Cup was the be all and end all when in fact no one outside the school gave a flying fuck.

Again, you're getting very hot under the collar because someone questions you're ideal status quo.

Noopti

stovelid wrote: »

Regale.

What are those fee-paying schools teaching you lot these days?

:rolleyes:

Ah yes, the "I'll correct your spelling mistakes, and that'll show you" method. Seriously, what is all the fuss about. One guy makes some generalistic comments about Munster Rugby fans and it turns into a big old mess. Can't we all just get along..... :pac:

On a side note note imagine an argument in the "real world" that went like this:

Person A: Hey look, all I said was that I didn't agree with your stance on abortion. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine. Can't we just live it there.....?

Person B: I think you will find it is "leave it there", not "live it there".

Person A: Good point, I have now seen that you are the better orator. I will now concede defeat to you on this matter.

*bows profusely as he leaves the room*

stovelid

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Correcting spellings on a Web forum. Good for you. Keep it up.

I don't usually do it, but your tone is really supercilious. Especially after the chat had taken a less argumentative turn.

The Mighty Ken

Xavi6 wrote: »

They were self centred and up themselves

Perhaps you thought they were up themselves because they didn't like you and had no time for you. Maybe you think they were self centered because you didn't fit in.

Xavi6 wrote: »

and thought that the Senior Cup was the be all and end all when in fact no one outside the school gave a flying fuck.

This is what qualifies my comments above. You sound like you were frustrated because they were interested in something that you aren't. Should they have stopped playing rugby? Stopped talking about it in your company because you don't like it. Sounds like you didn't fit in TBH.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Again, you're getting very hot under the collar because someone questions you're ideal status quo.

My 'ideal status quo'? What are you talking about? I'm not hot under the collar at all. I'm just trying to scratch the surface and see what you're alluding to. At least admit that people who play rugby can and do come from varied backgrounds - just like any other sport, some are assholes and some are good people.

Anyway, we're miles off topic. Rugby tribalism is for idiots.

The Mighty Ken

stovelid wrote: »

I don't usually do it, but your tone is really supercilious.

A contradiction in terms if ever I saw one. That 'Word of the day' calendar has paid for itself already.

Xavi6

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Perhaps you thought they were up themselves because they didn't like you and had no time for you. Maybe you think they were self centered because you didn't fit in.

My friends? Hmmm ok. A career in psychology awaits you.

This is what qualifies my comments above. You sound like you were frustrated because they were interested in something that you aren't. Should they have stopped playing rugby? Stopped talking about it in your company because you don't like it. Sounds like you didn't fit in TBH.

You could at least read the thread. I've said more than once I like rugby.

As for 'fitting in', I never played or had any interest in doing so so how I could I be trying to?

My 'ideal status quo'? What are you talking about? I'm not hot under the collar at all. I'm just trying to scratch the surface and see what you're alluding to. At least admit that people who play rugby can and do come from varied backgrounds - just like any other sport, some are assholes and some are good people.

I never said they didn't come from different backgrounds. All I said is that my experiences with rugby folk has been more bad than good. Problem?

Anyway, we're miles off topic. Rugby tribalism is for idiots.

All tribalism is for idiots, on that I'm sure we can all agree.

Noopti

I used to play rugby in Leinster, for Barnhall a long time ago. It wouldn't be considered the typical Leinster/Dublin rugby club with the stereotypical image of D4 heads swanning around the gaff.

However I have met people like that, and they do end up creating a negative image of rugby players/supporters. However, 90% of the people I have played with, known, or met in rugby circles are sound down to earth folk who enjoy nothing better than going to games, having a bit of craic and generally just enjoying the occasion.

I have gone to plenty of games and nearly all the time you end up in the pub, slagging the opposing fans off in good nature, and buying each other drinks. I have found this to be the case no matter who the teams are or what the result of the game was, and I think there are few sports who can match this level of respect between opposing fans. I have swapped jerseys with Leicester fans while having drinks with Dusty Hare and Richard Cockerill, I have slagged off props from New Zealand for being fat bastards, and they then buy me a pint, and the list goes on.
Having said that, again I have met the stereotypical arseholes who are up themselves and feel like they have a God given right to be admired by the "plebs" and the best thing to do is just laugh at them and go back to having the craic with real fans.

The Mighty Ken

Xavi6 wrote: »

I never said they didn't come from different backgrounds. All I said is that my experiences with rugby folk has been more bad than good. Problem?

Yeah, it's a stupid thing to say. But that's your problem, not mine.

Xavi6

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Yeah, it's a stupid thing to say. But that's your problem, not mine.

Lol how the hell can it be a stupid thing to say?! I just said what I'd experienced, which is what you asked. Was it a stupid question in that case?

stovelid

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

A contradiction in terms if ever I saw one. That 'Word of the day' calendar has paid for itself already.

I subscribe to a free Word of the Day newsletter, but they don't help with your grammar though. You just pick that up in school. We got plenty of time to do it in our - frankly plebeian - school, because we didn't have to spend much time working the egg-ball, and manhandling other chaps in tight shorts and popped polo shirts.

The Mighty Ken

stovelid wrote: »

I subscribe to a free Word of the Day newsletter, but they don't help with your grammar though.

Was it not my spelling you were correcting?

stovelid wrote: »

You just pick that up in school. We got plenty of time to do it in our - frankly plebeian - school, because we didn't have to spend much time working the egg-ball, and manhandling other chaps in tight shorts and popped polo shirts.

Did they teach you about the inherent mental retardation that's assumed of someone who uses stereotypes and makes silly assumptions?

Noopti

stovelid wrote: »

I subscribe to a free Word of the Day newsletter, but they don't help with your grammar though. You just pick that up in school. We got plenty of time to do it in our - frankly plebeian - school, because we didn't have to spend much time working the egg-ball, and manhandling other chaps in tight shorts and popped polo shirts.

Where did you get your man-handling fix so?

Xavi6

Surprised this hasn't been shipped off to Rugby yet. Could get some interesting opinions there!*


(* Knows Amz is reading )

MJOR

Fulton Crown wrote: »

How you describe your location "The Jewell of the South" really puts you into the the type of knob category I was describing.

I presume you mean Cork - that dirty small minded provincial town in the South ....

Yeah well another Munster man to coach Ireland.... So STFU! An excellent team!! Munster are the best!!Up the rebels etc etc!!