SIMI again

Climate Expert

England is seeing a similar collapse in car sales. Its just a feature of the global recession.

Biro

E92 wrote: »

They now think that there will be fewer than 100,000 new car sales next year.

Last month car sales were down no less than 51% compared to October 07.

That is an absolute disaster.

I know some people are quick to blame the VRT changes, but the fact of the matter is that most cars have come down in price, some by very significant amounts, and in reality the collapse in car sales has very little to do with the VRT changes but a hell of a lot to do with the recession.

We would still be in this situation if we hadn't changed VRT, probably worse as most cars were dearer before, and the big problem at the moment is the amount of people in the private sector who have either lost their jobs, taking pay freezes or even pay cuts because they know if they don't that their jobs will be gone too, so right now people are far more worried about how much money they'll be getting next than what number plate their car bears.

If anything, I think end of the days of reg plate snobbery might be no bad thing, lots of cars go to the scrapyard well before their time, and I think that's wrong, but I genuinely feel sorry for the decent salesmen and women who stand to lose their jobs over something completely out of their control.

I disagree really, I think the VRT situation couldn't have come at a worse time. They made cars cheaper for sure, but that hardly mattered at all. How many people were buying a brand new car with no trade in, no car to sell and just cash in the pocket? The fact remains that the VRT changes bollixed up the value of 2nd hand cars. The knock on effect of it was that the VRT on an English import was less (for the affected models) which made a joke of the used value of 1 and 2 year old Irish cars. Cars traded before July had to have thousands slashed off the price of them to reflect that the new model of the same car was cheaper, but that wasn't good enough cause everyone all of a sudden got the same notion to buy their car in the UK. 8 new Mondeo's here at work were bought this year from the UK, 6 month old demos as opposed to zero last year, because last year the price difference was bearly worth your while. In the first half of the year people waited for July, in the second half people waited either till the new year or bought in the UK. All this slow up in buying meant that nothing was moving on the forecourts, so dealers can't take another trade in.
In reality the Government need to make it uneconomical to buy in from the UK so that the car sales stay within this country and remain predictable. Not fair? Maybe. Necessary? Probably. No matter what the car industry in this country will always be unfair to someone until VRT is abolished completely. When that happens you'll have a pure disaster for 2 years when people's 2nd hand cars become closer to worthless and after it levels out it won't be worthwhile go across the water cause prices will be the same.
Going to the UK is all very well, and I'll continue to do it as should anyone else cause I'm only concerned about my pocket, as should anyone else be, but it's taking money out of the Irish economy which is the worst thing that can happen in a recession. Something needs to be done. Maybe start with anyone selling UK cars on UK plates for a profit. If you're selling cars on the side you need to pay income tax like everyone else.

ART6

Looking around Waterford at least, there are (I'd guess) 12 main dealers and a number of smaller outfits with cars on their lots. The main dealers have dozens in each case. At the same time, there are usually a couple of cars in Tesco's parking lot with "for sale" signs on them, and maybe another six or seven in laybys. So the road side trader is a big threat indeed. Protectionism rears it's ugly head.

Then the imports from the UK. Is half the population of Ireland heading to the UK to buy cars? If they are, what is SIMI doing to compete bearing in mind that the best such a buyer can hope to achieve is a reduction of VRT by not declaring oprional extras? Not a big deal surely?

And VRT? Oh I know before anyone hits me with it that there are other countries within the EU who have similar systems, but it has been proved repeatedly in Ireland that if the government reduces tax on something, the result is often an increase in revenue as a result of increased sales. The problem is that we have political parties who have no understanding of basic economics. And now we add the Greens to that.

jetfiremuck

The SIMI and motor industry all made submissions to the Gov and knew well in advance what was coming down the line as far as rule changes. Like everything else they assumed that everything would be hunky dory never felt too worried as July 1 came.How wrong they were. Most will agree that the British look after their cars alot better than us, and are priced well. Can you imagine the car industry if the VRT was lower. People would still get a better deal in the UK. Also the UK with the flat road tax rate there which up until recently allowed a bigger engine choice cc wise (the cars would be higher spec with the bigger engines) and a better selection unlike the road tax gouge that happens here. Why are BMW diesels that are over 2.0l selling well...cheaper road tax would be one reason I think

Darsad

jetfiremuck wrote: »

The SIMI and motor industry all made submissions to the Gov and knew well in advance what was coming down the line as far as rule changes.

True but that all changed when bertie and cowen needed the greens to make up the numbers after the last gen election.They agreed to Gormleys and Boyles request for complete CO2 basis taxation without getting the dept of Finance or revenue to do any number crunching in fact all were excluded from those talks.Everybody including revenue and finance officals were shocked when it became clear what Gormley had got and how much it would cost the exchequer a system not even the Swiss gov would approve on economic grounds.

javaboy

Darsad wrote: »

True but that all changed when bertie and cowen needed the greens to make up the numbers after the last gen election.They agreed to Gormleys and Boyles request for complete CO2 basis taxation without getting the dept of Finance or revenue to do any number crunching in fact all were excluded from those talks.Everybody including revenue and finance officals were shocked when it became clear what Gormley had got and how much it would cost the exchequer a system not even the Swiss gov would approve on economic grounds.

+1. People in the motor industry really didn't know what was going to happen to a lot of their cars taxation-wise in July. The whole process was handled really badly.

nogoodnamesleft

In our office in the past year out of an office of 50, 4 people have bought in the Uk import, myself included and we all saved a significant amount. I have to laugh at what a hyprocitical shower SIMI are. The is a SIMI car dealer less than a mile from the office where I work who brings in Audi, BMW, and VW ex lease cars direct from the Uk on a transporter and charges a premium price for these vehicles. I worked out his profit margin on one particular car (not including overheads obviously but purchase, VRT + transport) at over 4k. Then you hear SIMI "advising" not to buy ex Uk cars. Who the f*uck are they trying to fool?

The government and SIMI f*cked up the car market for themselves by being greedy, the dealers charging excessive amounts for car and the government for excessive VRT. There are honest salesmen stuck in the middle who are likely to lose their jobs due to both infulences. SIMI would really want to get their act together and be competitive rather than crying over spilt milk. They have lost public favour with some of their practices under the guise of "trying to protect their business" most recently by encouraging their members to report unregistered uk cars in their locality. I for one will be going over to the Uk again to purchase my next car.

As another poster said have the Government actuallty calculated how much VAT they have lost on cars that have been bought in the UK? rather than focus entirely on VRT.

alias no.9

leon8v wrote: »

I am not sure this is totally correct. The revenue set the OMSP themselves for second hand cars. They have a few guys down in Roslare who pull numbers out of the air, or water or something. They may consult various different sources on them but they have the final say in it and they ultimately set it, not the SIMI.

They may fiddle a little with the figures, jacking up the price if large numbers of a particular model are coming in, or do a little bit of finger up their own arse assessment, but their only source of hard data is the SIMI.

kayos

SIMI say dont buy UK imports? Heavens sake I know of a main dealer selling UK imports! They then go and charge the Irish price and even put fake Irish plates on them on the forecourt. There was a main dealers in Galway caught for clocking cars as well. So in the little city of Galway there are two main dealers covered by SIMI doing things SIMI say dont do or things that are just plain against the law. This is just an example and I know there are plenty of honest SIMI garages out there.

So please tell me why people should have any respect for what SIMI say? Why not buy a UK import when their members are importing them and selling them? What good is a SIMI approved dealer when you can still end up with a clocked car? A SIMI garage should be someplace that customers should be confident buying from but thats not the case.

Biro

jetfiremuck wrote: »

The SIMI and motor industry all made submissions to the Gov and knew well in advance what was coming down the line as far as rule changes. Like everything else they assumed that everything would be hunky dory never felt too worried as July 1 came.How wrong they were. Most will agree that the British look after their cars alot better than us, and are priced well. Can you imagine the car industry if the VRT was lower. People would still get a better deal in the UK. Also the UK with the flat road tax rate there which up until recently allowed a bigger engine choice cc wise (the cars would be higher spec with the bigger engines) and a better selection unlike the road tax gouge that happens here. Why are BMW diesels that are over 2.0l selling well...cheaper road tax would be one reason I think

That's part of the problem. People accept that owners in the UK by and large look after their cars better. But then the mistake happens in that they therefore conclude that any car you buy from the UK is always better than the same car bought in Ireland. They then buy the cheapest one they find and bring it home, boasting about the savings when in fact they've brought back a ball of sh!te. The cheapest on autotrader.co.uk are usually the worst. You need to pay good money for a good example, and while there's still savings, they're not as large as some people say.
The big worry is know-nothing clowns flying off to the UK, cash in pocket, looking at the one car they found that's cheap, hand over the cash and drive to the ferry. Thousands a month are coming in, and I'd say over half are not even given a once over by a knowing eye. The amount of used crap for re-sale on our market over the coming years will be eye watering.

javaboy

Another point to add on the idea of UK owners treating their cars better: When people look to import a UK car they are likely to be importing something reasonably expensive like a BMW rather than a Fiat Punto. It stands to reason that those cars will be better maintained as there's a good chance they've been owned by a car enthusiast in the first place.

When I was in England last I saw just as many clapped out cars as I do here.

Darragh29

E92 wrote: »

They now think that there will be fewer than 100,000 new car sales next year.

Last month car sales were down no less than 51% compared to October 07.

That is an absolute disaster.

I know some people are quick to blame the VRT changes, but the fact of the matter is that most cars have come down in price, some by very significant amounts, and in reality the collapse in car sales has very little to do with the VRT changes but a hell of a lot to do with the recession.

We would still be in this situation if we hadn't changed VRT, probably worse as most cars were dearer before, and the big problem at the moment is the amount of people in the private sector who have either lost their jobs, taking pay freezes or even pay cuts because they know if they don't that their jobs will be gone too, so right now people are far more worried about how much money they'll be getting next than what number plate their car bears.

If anything, I think end of the days of reg plate snobbery might be no bad thing, lots of cars go to the scrapyard well before their time, and I think that's wrong, but I genuinely feel sorry for the decent salesmen and women who stand to lose their jobs over something completely out of their control.

The mutterings of the SIMI remind me of a man dancing the Tyburn jig during his last moments on the gallows in years gone by. What your seeing from the SIMI recently is a desparate reaction from people who simply do not know how to effectively respond to a collapse in sales. The SIMI should hire out a venue like the the INEC or some large converence venue and have a conference with regard to the very serious situation the motor industry is now in, and allow some positive thinking and fresh ideas to emerge and be shared. The only reason there has been a collapse in the industry with regard to car sales, is because the motor industry hasn't adapted quickly enough to the economic situation. The TV adverting campaign was a disgrace and based on feedback that I have heard, has been a complete waste of money. If they organised a forum where people could get up and share their experiences, you would see some very creative thinking emerge and that's the first step to getting back to where they want to be.

Begrudging statements about spying/ratting on people driving NI/UK cars and people selling a car outside their house, is only p*ssing people off and is generating bad will for the whole industry and the SIMI.

-Chris-

Darragh29 wrote: »

The mutterings of the SIMI remind me of a man dancing the Tyburn jig during his last moments on the gallows in years gone by. What your seeing from the SIMI recently is a desparate reaction from people who simply do not know how to effectively respond to a collapse in sales. The SIMI should hire out a venue like the the INEC or some large converence venue and have a conference with regard to the very serious situation the motor industry is now in, and allow some positive thinking and fresh ideas to emerge and be shared. The only reason there has been a collapse in the industry with regard to car sales, is because the motor industry hasn't adapted quickly enough to the economic situation. The TV adverting campaign was a disgrace and based on feedback that I have heard, has been a complete waste of money. If they organised a forum where people could get up and share their experiences, you would see some very creative thinking emerge and that's the first step to getting back to where they want to be.

Begrudging statements about spying/ratting on people driving NI/UK cars and people selling a car outside their house, is only p*ssing people off and is generating bad will for the whole industry and the SIMI.

Best post I've seen so far regarding the current situation!

trellheim

there was a TV campaign ?

Darragh29

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055380911

You'd be stretching credibility to actually call it a "campaign" though, it was more like a joke gone badly wrong.

smash

I see they have a new ad... http://www.buyyourcarnow.ie/contentv3/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&pageID=15337

CyberGhost

As an entropy fan, I'm enjoying this.

They made their money, lots of it, now it's time to go down.

mcwhirter wrote: »

That is why you see people driving driving those kia's , hyundais and those horrible ssangyong thing, disgusting cars.

There would be no need to buy these if the proper car brands were sold at a decent price

Actually for me personally(and I guess for many "casual" drivers), the price of the car isn't as important as the tax on it, I'd save and buy a good car with a nice engine(and I'd know where my money actually went) if I didn't have to pay an absolute rip-off of a tax on it every year(month).

166 euro a month for a 3 litre engine + insurance and you are up to 200+

I don't drive that much, but it'd be nice to actually drive a powerful car instead of a 1.0 Polo.

Darragh29

CyberGhost wrote: »

As an entropy fan, I'm enjoying this.
They made their money, lots of it, now it's time to go down.

Well it depends on who "they" are. There are a lot of decent people working in the industry who are facing unemployment in the next 6 months...

CyberGhost

Darragh29 wrote: »

Well it depends on who "they" are. There are a lot of decent people working in the industry who are facing unemployment in the next 6 months...

Them I sincerely feel sorry for, I'm talking about greedy scumbags in charge/goverment, who will do anything just not to discomfort their fat ***es, and will go on to changing and rearranging everything underneath them to fit them as long as people take it.

I'm glad people stopped buying, F'em how long does this blatant rip off should go on for?

Mitch Connor

mcwhirter wrote: »

That is why you see people driving driving those kia's , hyundais and those horrible ssangyong thing, disgusting cars.

There would be no need to buy these if the proper car brands were sold at a decent price

HEY!!

Leave my little Kia alone!!:mad::mad::mad:

Darragh29

There is no change that does not deliver opportunity, that's my view of it. Obviously as I said above, the industry isn't coping with change and this is wrong. It is a very real reflection of the short term financial goals that the industry has always sought, I know of a main dealer family in Wexford who take a helicopter to the Galway Races, mixes with FF politicians just for the show, blah blah blah. Firstly, what is he thinking, he is only running a garage and more importantly, who do you think is paying for this nonsense???

If you go to Portugal, Spain or Cyprus, you'll see dealerships there, but I bet they aren't hanging out with Hector and taking helicopters to national events...

daveharnett

Climate Expert wrote: »

Imported cars and roadside selling are destroying their industry.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/financial-crisis/collapse-of-sales-drives-car

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