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5/11/2008 - What a great day for Fianna Fail

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    #32
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    taconnol wrote: »
    No the difference is, I accept that teacher quality is a factor but you won't accept that class size is also a factor. As the great Bertrand Russell said:

    "If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way."

    I don't know why I took this off my sig. I have cause to use it every time I come on here

    If there's 50 kids in a class it's too big...40 is pushing it, but just because the internatioanl average is lower than ours doesn't mean we have too many kids in our classrooms, or if you want me to put it more plainly in a manner which every Irish person understands.

    If our personal tax burden is much lower than the international average, is our tax burden too low? (the answer is yes, but not to the extent that the extreme scaremongers would have you believe)

    I don't believe 30 kids in a class is too many.

    However if there are 15 kids over 3 yeargroups in a class with one teacher, then that IS too many.


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    #33
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    I don't compare it to general international levels. I compare it to European levels and we have among the largest class sizes in Europe.

    I'm glad you feel qualified enough to decide what an acceptable class size is and what isn't. Can I ask what exactly you are using to find those figures, or are you just pulling them out of the air like I suspect?

    Like it or not, many governments, including this one, use class size as one indicator (among others) of a good quality education system. They are not arguing that class size doesn't matter because it would be completely hypocritical of them.


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    #34
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    taconnol wrote: »
    I don't compare it to general international levels. I compare it to European levels and we have among the largest class sizes in Europe.

    I'm glad you feel qualified enough to decide what an acceptable class size is and what isn't. Can I ask what exactly you are using to find those figures, or are you just pulling them out of the air like I suspect?

    Like it or not, many governments, including this one, use class size as one indicator (among others) of a good quality education system. They are not arguing that class size doesn't matter because it would be completely hypocritical of them.


    Size however, much like essay length, has nothing to do with quality.


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    #35
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    That's not entirely true.


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    #36
    Heinrich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Heinrich


    In the "Good Old Days" there were indeed large classes. But then again there was far more discipline, what with the teachers and their canes, leather straps and sundry sticks to maintain order. Then if a comment came home to the parents there was more retribution for not working in class.

    Today we have a severe lack of discipline and fat, lazy square eyed brats to contend with. Beside, we were promised smaller classes and buzz words suck as "best practice", "World class", "state of the art" etc. were floating around the chamber like a snowstorm! Now it's outside influences and the global downturn when the dogs in the street know damn well that the money was squandered. 166 TDs, junior ministers, advisors, quangos and the like to produce this current train wreck. They never saw it coming but that is what they are being overpaid to do.


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