Could you ever see the Aussies vote for an Aborigine as PM?

dSTAR

I know where you are coming from Missy. It could be in no small part due to the fact that I have had an ongoing relationship with a Koori girl for the past five years who works with disadvantaged kids in West Heidelberg and is quite militant in her views. As a result I have been given a front line view of the types of struggles that Koori kids face on a daily basis and let me tell you it ain't pretty. The covert prejudice that they have to deal with is just the tip of the iceberg.

BarryCreed

+1

I take offence to the term "abo" used in this thread..

should this type of vocab be reported?

Mrs OBumble

wordcount wrote: »

nO even the msot pleseant and liberal Aussies have blind spot when it comes to how rascist they are in relatiion to the Abbos as they call em,

Now lads, before you all get too self-righteous, to quote this week's Galway Advertiser:

"Now, isn't it high time we had a Traveller Taoiseach".
http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/section/22/6

I know some Irish people who think that inward migration to Ireland is a good thing, and that the presence of Polish, Nigerian etc people has made the country a better place. But even these relatively enlightened types don't get it when it comes to the way Traveller people are treated.

Granted, Travellers don't always behave in ways that are appropriate. Ditto Australian Aboriginal people, or Maori in New Zealand. But this isn't surprising when you look at how society works against 'em, and has done for generations. And just because "they" don't behave the way "we" would like 'em to is no reason for "we" to behave badly ourselves.

Food for though, aye.

BarryCreed

if they were good enough for the job , yeah, I would vote for a traveller. They can't be any worse than the thieves currently in Dail Eireann.
Plus, I think travellers are far better off than most aboriginals(????)

how many aborigines did you ever see driving brand new Land Rovers around Oz? I'm sure there's a few but I didn't see any (in the cities anyways...)

watna

BarryCreed wrote: »

+1

I take offence to the term "abo" used in this thread..

should this type of vocab be reported?

If it was used in a different way, then yes, I'd have a problem with it. In the context it was used I don't. The poster stated some people used that term to portray prejudice. He did not use that term himself.

I will be watching this thread carefully though.

wordcount

watna wrote: »

If it was used in a different way, then yes, I'd have a problem with it. In the context it was used I don't. The poster stated some people used that term to portray prejudice. He did not use that term himself.

I will be watching this thread carefully though.

Fair intrepretation.

I spent 2 years in Aus, its a personal observation. The Aussis I knew there were great people, but by and large they did seem to blindly criticise the aboriginals. The main two were "look what they are given" and "they dont want to work"

Some peope love to get on their Joe Duffy caller esque santamonious rant without reading or understanding something called context

wordcount

BarryCreed wrote: »

if they were good enough for the job , yeah, I would vote for a traveller. They can't be any worse than the thieves currently in Dail Eireann.
Plus, I think travellers are far better off than most aboriginals(????)

how many aborigines did you ever see driving brand new Land Rovers around Oz? I'm sure there's a few but I didn't see any (in the cities anyways...)

Not sure what point you are making. Travellers are not intitled to drive what ever the hellthey want?

Where the offence hating mob gone?

wordcount

BarryCreed wrote: »

+1

I take offence to the term "abo" used in this thread..

should this type of vocab be reported?

Do you understand a word called "context"? seriously though do you? Maybe you could inform ur self of what that means before you make your fake shocked Jow duffy caller esque remark.

missannik

wordcount wrote: »

I spent 2 years in Aus, its a personal observation. The Aussis I knew there were great people, but by and large they did seem to blindly criticise the aboriginals. The main two were "look what they are given" and "they dont want to work"

So the "context" that myself and others obviously didn't understand is that you're in my country for a whole of 5 minutes and have met a handful of people with such views so you are allowed to make sweeping generalisations about the Australian public? Get your head out of your arse!

dSTAR

I think most of the custodians of this land would take exception to this derogatory term and would prefer to use the term 'black fella' if white Australians can be bothered referring to them with their traditional titles.

wordcount

missannik wrote: »

So the "context" that myself and others obviously didn't understand is that you're in my country for a whole of 5 minutes and have met a handful of people with such views so you are allowed to make sweeping generalisations about the Australian public? Get your head out of your arse!

I am giving my personal observations. I am not claiming it to be a factual representation of aussi opinion. And two years is a little more than five minutes by the way. The actual question kind of asked for a generalised opinion if you are to think about it for more than a second.


And by the way you ARE STILL NOT GETTING THE MEANING OF THE WORD CONTEXT.

So the "context" that myself and others obviously didn't understand is that you're in my country for a whole of 5 minutes and have met a handful of people with such views so you are allowed to make sweeping generalisations about the Australian public? Get your head out of your arse

The context I used the word in, was in describing how Aussis I know who were decent liberal caring people 99% of the time, would call aboriginals "abbos" without even thinking. Again As you see I am using that word again but in a specific context. Do you understand?

The overall point I have and yes it is a generalisation, is that there is ingrained deap seated rascicm against these people, and I dont think the Aussi people I know can really see how bad it is. (generalisation I know but a personal observation no more). QED, if I apply this generalsiation to wider Aussi society the answer to the question is NO. Also I knew people from small towns, people from Darwin, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, POrt Aladade, and in general there was a wide spectrum of people I think. But obviously I am not claiming to have a diffinitive opinion here, just a observation. Feel free to disagree with the substantive point, but do not lecture me abouting using the word "abbo" without bothering to understand the context of how I was using the word.

wordcount

dSTAR wrote: »

I think most of the custodians of this land would take exception to this derogatory term and would prefer to use the term 'black fella' if white Australians can be bothered referring to them with their traditional titles.

Yes they would take exception to the term "abbo" and they would be right to. Do you really think they would rather be termed "blackk fella?" What about a woman what would she rather be termed?

I dont know why but your remarks sound so paternalistic and patronising towards these people. I know you are trying to be ultra policially correct with your "custodians of this land" etc.

wordcount

missannik wrote: »

is that you're in my country for a whole of 5 minutes

Is it really your country though is it?

missannik

Word Count it might be useful to realise who you are talking to. I am AUSTRALIAN! So yes, it is my country and you are talking about my people. I would never go to Ireland and make claims about the general public based on the few Irish people that I have met over the years- I think that it is common sense to assume that people would be offended if I did such. You can hardly blame me to consider your 2 years here as the equivalent of 5 minutes, in comparison to how long I've lived here. And I really couldn't care less about your use of "context," fact is you made a sweeping generalisation about a population where it isn't your place to do so and you brought up a term which conjures up negativitity. There was never going to be a happy ending after your comments. You're entitled to your view, you can say it however you bloody well like, I just think its below the belt of both parties concerned.

Is there racism against Indigenous Australians? That's undeniable. But are the majority of Australians racist towards them? I don't believe so. I think that it is encouraging that there has been the implementation of Reconciliation week, Naidoc week and National Sorry Day, amongst others, and also the recognition of Native Title rights. And whilst all of that looks good on paper, I don't deny that there is still so much that needs to be done to improve matters. Hopefully having the PM apologise for all the pain and hurt caused to the stolen generation earlier this year will mean that things can and will improve.

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that dStar was being sarcastic.

wordcount

missannik wrote: »

Word Count it might be useful to realise who you are talking to. I am AUSTRALIAN! So yes, it is my country and you are talking about my people. I would never go to Ireland and make claims about the general public based on the few Irish people that I have met over the years- I think that it is common sense to assume that people would be offended if I did such. You can hardly blame me to consider your 2 years here as the equivalent of 5 minutes, in comparison to how long I've lived here. And I really couldn't care less about your use of "context," fact is you made a sweeping generalisation about a population where it isn't your place to do so and you brought up a term which conjures up negativitity. There was never going to be a happy ending after your comments. You're entitled to your view, you can say it however you bloody well like, I just think its below the belt of both parties concerned.

Is there racism against Indigenous Australians? That's undeniable. But are the majority of Australians racist towards them? I don't believe so. I think that it is encouraging that there has been the implementation of Reconciliation week, Naidoc week and National Sorry Day, amongst others, and also the recognition of Native Title rights. And whilst all of that looks good on paper, I don't deny that there is still so much that needs to be done to improve matters. Hopefully having the PM apologise for all the pain and hurt caused to the stolen generation earlier this year will mean that things can and will improve.

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that dStar was being sarcastic.

First of all, only scumbags use that term and their views and comments shouldn't represent the rest of us.

Again your missing the idea lf context and going off on a rant.


see above quote from you. "Only scumbags use that term". Now I never used that term to refelct my opinions I used to describe how many australiams I know refer to aboriginals as.

Your county? I am afraid it belongs to the aboriginals, your no more than a tenant.

What can I say, yes my opinion of white australians was a generalisation, I willing to accept that. I am not willing to accept being castigated by people who will jump on a politically correct band wagon without first reading what I had actually said in terms of the context of the word ABBo.

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that dStar was being sarcastic.

Maybe

missannik

Ahhh, well my friend it is you who has misunderstood. I was referring to the Aussies who use that word. They are scum. But that still doesn't justify you bringing up that word in this discussion. You know that the Indigenous people don't like to be referred to that, and yet you raised it, hiding it under the guise that other people have said it.

wordcount

missannik wrote: »

Ahhh, well my friend it is you who has misunderstood. I was referring to the Aussies who use that word. They are scum. But that still doesn't justify you bringing up that word in this discussion. You know that the Indigenous people don't like to be referred to that, and yet you raised it, hiding it under the guise that other people have said it.

Dont you see if an Aussi was to use that word in the same context as I did then it would be fine for him or her to use the word.

It is when the word is used as a term of dirision or in a racist way or context then its offencive. If I am using the word "Abbo" contextually to describe the words or views of others then this is not rascist.

I am telling you that I have heard Australians calling Aboriginals "abbos" on many ocasions. That is a fact. I do not condone or agree with this term. I am simply pointing out an observation.

I think I am justified bringin up that word in this discussion because the question asked would there be an aborigninal PM in Australia. I was making the point that in my opinion even what I would call liberal Australians have a blind spot when it comes to Aboriginals. I mention that the same people use the word "Abbos" as an example of this rascist blind spot.

Now if you cannot understand this very simple distinction there is nothing more I can say to you.

wordcount

I grew up with many Koori's (Indigenous people from Victoria) and have a great respect for their culture and for them in general.

Would you like a gold star for that? So what!

dSTAR

wordcount wrote: »

Yes they would take exception to the term "abbo" and they would be right to. Do you really think they would rather be termed "blackk fella?" What about a woman what would she rather be termed?

I dont know why but your remarks sound so paternalistic and patronising towards these people. I know you are trying to be ultra policially correct with your "custodians of this land" etc.

I think 'black fella' is a term they probably dubbed themselves in much the same way that blacks in America have re-appropriated a certain word that if a white person were to say to the wrong person would probably result in actual physical bodily harm.

Maybe I am being a little PC with certain terms (could be due to certain relationships I have with indigenous friends) but seeing what white Europeans have done to the original inhabitants and are still doing makes me fuken sick.

You should probably change your name from wordcount to wordplay because you come here to deliberately troll and flame and then lamely attempt to employ weasel words to justify your own use of racist terms.

wordcount wrote:

It is when the word is used as a term of dirision or in a racist way or context then its offencive. If I am using the word "Abbo" contextually to describe the words or views of others then this is not rascist.

watna

Wordcount.... calm down and behave.

If this thread continues the way it is without a reasonable debate I will lock it. I'm all up for a discussion but this is a friendly forum, it posters cannot get there views across without riling up a huge majority of the other posters than it is not a reasonable debate.

Comments like those I have quoted for are not called for and are completely unconstructive and not conducive to a proper debate. I will not warn again on the matter and I do not want the thread pulled off topic with a lot of moderator warnings and responses to those warnings. As I said I am watching this thread carefully (that means all posters) and will lock it if necessary.

wordcount wrote: »

Do you understand a word called "context"? seriously though do you? Maybe you could inform ur self of what that means before you make your fake shocked Jow duffy caller esque remark.

wordcount wrote: »

Is it really your country though is it?

wordcount wrote: »

Would you like a gold star for that? So what!

wordcount

watna wrote: »

Wordcount.... calm down and behave.

If this thread continues the way it is without a reasonable debate I will lock it. I'm all up for a discussion but this is a friendly forum, it posters cannot get there views across without riling up a huge majority of the other posters than it is not a reasonable debate.

Comments like those I have quoted for are not called for and are completely unconstructive and not conducive to a proper debate. I will not warn again on the matter and I do not want the thread pulled off topic with a lot of moderator warnings and responses to those warnings. As I said I am watching this thread carefully (that means all posters) and will lock it if necessary.

I am being called a rascist by certain posters, even though I challange anyone to point out where I was being rascist? Please show me where I was being rascist.

Again let me get back my substantive point. In my observation I do not think Australians will vote for an Aboriginal PM if the Aussis I know are any gauage of Aussi opinion. All are the most decent people you could meet. But when it comes to aboriginal people some of them had a tendency to revert to pretty bad rascist opinions of aboriginals, and yes some of them had a tendency to call them "Abos". Now This is not my view i.e. I would never refer to an aboriginal as as "abbo". I have heard austrialians using that term on numerous occasions. Of course you can argue that this does not reflect all Aussis and thats a fair assumption. But it does represent opinions of some of the Aussis I have met.

To elabourate further. I have heard many Aussis talk about the long list of Social welfare provision avalible to the aboriginal people in a kind of "look how well we look after them" kind of way or "They dont want to work they are too lazy". Again this is not my opinion. It my observations of some Aussi opinion on these people.

Now I can accept if some Aussi on here find that opinion uncomfortable. I am sorry about that. I aggree debate should be friendly etc, but it should also be honest and sometimes challenging.

wordcount

dSTAR wrote: »

I think 'black fella' is a term they probably dubbed themselves in much the same way that blacks in America have re-appropriated a certain word that if a white person were to say to the wrong person would probably result in actual physical bodily harm.

Maybe I am being a little PC with certain terms (could be due to certain relationships I have with indigenous friends) but seeing what white Europeans have done to the original inhabitants and are still doing makes me fuken sick.

You should probably change your name from wordcount to wordplay because you come here to deliberately troll and flame and then lamely attempt to employ weasel words to justify your own use of racist terms.

Ironically earlier on someome said you were being sarcastic, I knew you were not. You were actuall being serious.

I used a rascist term to describe what someone else has said. it does not reflect my opinion.

If someone was reading the news and said " Today in a typical gaff George Bush called a African American a ******" would you say the news reader was a rascist?

watna

wordcount wrote: »

I am being called a rascist by certain posters, even though I challange anyone to point out where I was being rascist? Please show me where I was being rascist.

Again let me get back my substantive point. In my observation I do not think Australians will vote for an Aboriginal PM if the Aussis I know are any gauage of Aussi opinion. All are the most decent people you could meet. But when it comes to aboriginal people some of them had a tendency to revert to pretty bad rascist opinions of aboriginals, and yes some of them had a tendency to call them "Abos". Now This is not my view i.e. I would never refer to an aboriginal as as "abbo". I have heard austrialians using that term on numerous occasions. Of course you can argue that this does not reflect all Aussis and thats a fair assumption. But it does represent opinions of some of the Aussis I have met.

To elabourate further. I have heard many Aussis talk about the long list of Social welfare provision avalible to the aboriginal people in a kind of "look how well we look after them" kind of way or "They dont want to work they are too lazy". Again this is not my opinion. It my observations of some Aussi opinion on these people.

Now I can accept if some Aussi on here find that opinion uncomfortable. I am sorry about that. I aggree debate should be friendly etc, but it should also be honest and sometimes challenging.

Wordcount - nobody called you a racist, they said they were uncomfortable with the word you used and you can't demand or challenge me to show you anything.

I posted - as a moderator and said that I was happy with your use of the term that some people may find offensive and that should have been that but you continued to argue that you used it in context, when there was no need to do so - That's not a challening debate. You have had your say and in your last post you made your point well - that in your experience of Australians that is what you think.

Now, drop it and get back on topic. You've made your point, I've already had to ask posters in this thread to agree to disagree and I'm going to ask you the same thing.

This is my final word and warning. Any more discussion of this (i.e. defending your use of the term, accusing all Australians of people racist or accusing posters of calling you racist because they do not agree with you) will result in a ban.

EDIT: I see you have, again , added an unecessary post after your first one. It is not necessary to post three times to get your point across. This better be the last one on the topic.

wordcount

watna wrote: »

This is my final word and warning. Any more discussion of this (i.e. defending your use of the term, accusing all Australians of people racist quote]

I am sorry ban me of you want but I have never accused all Australians of being Rascist.

I feel really strongly that my words should not be twisted by anyone.

dSTAR

I still fail to see your point. You said ...

It is when the word is used as a term of dirision or in a racist way or context then its offencive. If I am using the word "Abbo" contextually to describe the words or views of others then this is not rascist.

So if I understand you correctly it is only racist when you decide the context in which it is being used?

I would love to take you down to a Catholic school for Koori kids in a disadvantaged area that a friend of mine works in as a mentor. If you saw the kinds of challenges these kids face on a daily basis it would put a lump in your throat. Most of the kids are street smart as well as having many different talents that are not being utilized because they are constantly conditioned to believe that they are lazy and will never amount to much.

Anyway I am not going to bother participating in this strawman argument any longer.

Gordon

wordcount wrote: »

" Today in a typical gaff George Bush called a African American a ******"

Well, I will be the first to make money from prophesising the 3 initialed murderer's name. "George W Bush did so while pulling out his gun to be the first to assassinate Barack Obama, the court heard." David Icke, bow to me.

watna

WordCount banned for 1 week.

DStar infracted for going off topic and arguing back after I asked you all to stay on topic and agree to disagree.

I'm also locking this thread. If we can't have a civil discussion then we'll have no discussion at all.