An Irish alternative to Barack Obama?

ongarite

Can't see it happening myself. Politics in Ireland is far too local; can't see the bigger picture, whats needed in the nations interest. A lot of politicians in this country are 2nd, 3rd generation, its in the family, career politicians.

The only way something like it could happen here is if some figureheard started a party and didn't care if they got burned bad and had the vision and determination to fix the country and not pander to all the vested interests and local lobbys.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ongarite wrote: »

Can't see it happening myself. Politics in Ireland is far too local; can't see the bigger picture, whats needed in the nations interest. A lot of politicians in this country are 2nd, 3rd generation, its in the family, career politicians.

The only way something like it could happen here is if some figureheard started a party and didn't care if they got burned bad and had the vision and determination to fix the country and not pander to all the vested interests and local lobbys.

I still say we'd never vote for them. It's be like Obama running for governor of Texas.

zig

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I still say we'd never vote for them. It's be like Obama running for governor of Texas.

Exactly!!
I think its hilarious that theres so many Irish in support of obama yet the very same people want the eastern europeans/romanians/nigerians out.
Its absolutely laughable to think the irish would vote for a candidate whos both parents were nigerian(for example). Give us 30/40 years and thats still being generous.

zuroph

zig wrote: »

Exactly!!
I think its hilarious that theres so many Irish in support of obama yet the very same people want the eastern europeans/romanians/nigerians out.
Its absolutely laughable to think the irish would vote for a candidate whos both parents were nigerian(for example). Give us 30/40 years and thats still being generous.

theres a big difference between barack and a roma gypsy. but thats a whole other can of worms.

oscarBravo

zuroph wrote: »

and a lot of people wont vote for kenny cos of his creepy personality.

Have you ever met him?

zuroph

no, and neither has most of the population of the country. I'm basing this judgement on how he carries himself on the radio and tv, the main access point I have to the man. one of the most cringeworthy moments was while he was canvassing at last election and repeatedly referred to himself in the third person during an interview!!

charisma goes a long way, and unfortunately, for a long time, Bertie was the only one with any, and even he didnt have a lot.

now I cant think of one that exudes that "its ok, I know what I'm doing, don't worry" quality.

oscarBravo

zuroph wrote: »

no, and neither has most of the population of the country. I'm basing this judgement on how he carries himself on the radio and tv, the main access point I have to the man. one of the most cringeworthy moments was while he was canvassing at last election and repeatedly referred to himself in the third person during an interview!!

I'm not sure how any of this adds up to a "creepy personality".

zuroph

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm not sure how any of this adds up to a "creepy personality".

thats the great thing about opinions.

IMO he's a poor opposition leader. He's like the uncle u get stuck talkin to at a family wedding, who holds ur arm so u cant leave, while telling u about "the problems with the nieghbours"

buynow

The structure of Irish democracy sort of prevents something happening in Ireland like just happened in the US. The people don't directly elect the Taoiseach.

I mean what would happen here, you have to be a TD in one of the two FG/FF. And then wait until it is your turn, it is like some Union mandated seniority promotion thing.

You would need the leaders of the parties to be elected directly by the people.

zuroph

buynow wrote: »

The structure of Irish democracy sort of prevents something happening in Ireland like just happened in the US. The people don't directly elect the Taoiseach.

I mean what would happen here, you have to be a TD in one of the two FG/FF. And then wait until it is your turn, it is like some Union mandated seniority promotion thing.

You would need the leaders of the parties to be elected directly by the people.

TECHNICALLy, in the US they dont directly elect the president either.

buynow

zuroph wrote: »

TECHNICALLy, in the US they dont directly elect the president either.

I know, but it would be bad form if the electors turned around and elected Sarah Palin now wouldn't it?

I think one guy in the last one voted for edwards by accident, didn't he?

zuroph

well isnt it a pretty similar system in that we elect local tds and THEY forward the taioseach...

buynow

zuroph wrote: »

well isnt it a pretty similar system in that we elect local tds and THEY forward the taioseach...

In a way yes, however the electoral college is a one shot deal, that is what you are voting for and just that.

But the main point is that the nominee is also chosen by the public in the US (I know the democrats have some daft super delegate malarkey). And so an unknown newcomer can become the nominee and then the president. So you would need the leaders of FF or FG to be elected by the public.

The question of whether it is a better option is another one.

simu

Enda isn't inspiring and I have as little confidence in his ability to sort out this country's problems as I have in Cowen & co. I'm not alone in thinking this, either.

The problem with the mainstream parties is that their main raison d'etre is to propagate themselves rather than to improve the lot of the Irish people. They will say and do whatever it takes to keep seats and keep the show going but there's nothing beyond that. OK, you get the odd far-sighted politician who somehow makes it through the party machinery and makes a difference but they're flukes rather than the norm.

We need an end to civil war politics. Labour, the Greens and the PDs aren't much better because they're all wrapped up in their own ideologies. Sinn Féin are saddled with a lot of dark baggage. Who else? A raggle-taggle bag of random independents and loonies!

We need a new party or even parties, new ideas and new people to enter politics in this country and we need them to get Joe and Josie Soap to reconsider their voting habits and the standard to which they hold their elected representatives. The recession might be just the opening for new political movements in Ireland as it will surely show the ineptness of our present gang of mugs dot dot dot

Acacia

simu wrote: »

Enda isn't inspiring and I have as little confidence in his ability to sort out this country's problems as I have in Cowen & co. I'm not alone in thinking this, either.

The problem with the mainstream parties is that their main raison d'etre is to propagate themselves rather than to improve the lot of the Irish people. They will say and do whatever it takes to keep seats and keep the show going but there's nothing beyond that. OK, you get the odd far-sighted politician who somehow makes it through the party machinery and makes a difference but they're flukes rather than the norm.

We need an end to civil war politics. Labour, the Greens and the PDs aren't much better because they're all wrapped up in their own ideologies. Sinn Féin are saddled with a lot of dark baggage. Who else? A raggle-taggle bag of random independents and loonies!

We need a new party or even parties, new ideas and new people to enter politics in this country and we need them to get Joe and Josie Soap to reconsider their voting habits and the standard to which they hold their elected representatives. The recession might be just the opening for new political movements in Ireland as it will surely show the ineptness of our present gang of mugs dot dot dot

I second this. I'm rather disillusioned with Irish politicians- they all seem as bad as each other, and not one of them seems interested (genuinely) in sorting out the problems of the Irish public. My grandfather used to say, in reference to FF and FG that, "It doesn't matter which one is in- we still pay. But at least with FF the ordinary Joe gets crumbs from the rich man's table.'' That about sums it up for me.

I'm not particularly enamored with any political party here to be honest.

Carturo

How about Blacky Connor? Pikey for Pres! :pac:

is_that_so

I don't think we would go for a figure like that because as soon as we got one we'd start knocking them down, too big for their boots etc. It's also questionable whether something like that is always good. While the US can embrace it , a bit too much in my view, and while we might admire it from afar I couldn't imagine us self-consciously muttering "Change we can believe in/Yes we can" in a field in Leitrim or anywhere else for that matter.

I'd also suggest that some people are looking at this in a very jaundiced way. Most of that IMO comes out of the frustration with the "people" voting back in the present incumbents. What we have is a government that has been in power way too long. We've been here before, more than a few times. What we do need is new blood and a different way of looking at things. That can only come with a change in government.

eoinbn

buynow wrote: »

The structure of Irish democracy sort of prevents something happening in Ireland like just happened in the US. The people don't directly elect the Taoiseach.

I mean what would happen here, you have to be a TD in one of the two FG/FF. And then wait until it is your turn, it is like some Union mandated seniority promotion thing.

You would need the leaders of the parties to be elected directly by the people.

Well the last election was between Bernie and Kenny. People certainly thinking which *party* would have been better for the economy as it was a pretty clear choice between a minister of finance with no experience in finance, Cowen, and a Oxford graduate in economics, Bruton.

Michael O'Leary! Not quite Obama, but at least people might listen to what he had to say and we NEED to hear it.

Someone said Leo Varadkar and it was the first name that came into my head. Indian father and irish mother, young, inexperienced and has some charisma, well by Irish standards.

Acacia wrote: »

I second this. I'm rather disillusioned with Irish politicians- they all seem as bad as each other, and not one of them seems interested (genuinely) in sorting out the problems of the Irish public. My grandfather used to say, in reference to FF and FG that, "It doesn't matter which one is in- we still pay. But at least with FF the ordinary Joe gets crumbs from the rich man's table.'' That about sums it up for me.

I'm not particularly enamored with any political party here to be honest.

Your grandfathers comment is pretty much what every FF support says when you ask them why did they vote FF-"they are all the same, might as well vote for them as the other crowd". However they never do vote for the other side, they always vote FF- odd that.

is_that_so

eoinbn wrote: »

Someone said Leo Varadkar and it was the first name that came into my head. Indian father and irish mother, young, inexperienced and has some charisma, well by Irish standards.

I thought so at first but Varadker has proved to be a bit of a loose cannon and acts like a yapping puppy sometimes. He needs to learn to shut up.

wildsaffy

Ok.

Had a miscarriage - totally unecessary - 2005. Had fibroids. Got zilch all help in that time - was a prsi wagie at some points - even though some of my employers had neglected the prsi side of it .....

Was told I had to have a hystectomy - no options offered. I thought it was too drastic but never thought I would get preggers again.

So. Yesterday got handed a bill for €2,500. Of a €4,500 bill some of which I might claim off my private insurance that I have been paying for 2 years.

Never mind what's taken off my pay packet.

I just set up a company - it may take up a while till tax benefits filter through. Etc. Etc.

so - while I (might) lie in a hospital tonight (because of the bleeding that should have been sorted 2005) - possibly losing this baby - at point did I see of sense of care? psri? shah - we will shove you into this lady of lourdes (who would be rolling in her grave) cattle pit - or pay through the nose and you will still pay through the nose scenario? What would you like me to tell you about the health service?

And yes - private - and I got the best doctor ever. Wish I had met him 3 years ago. Are private / public doctors not supposed to be the same here?

I really wish someone would explain to this (literally) laywoman.

ninty9er

There's one or 2 Labour councillors I could think of, and a few of the younger FF backbenchers.

Nobody else.

zuroph

I think we need a new party, for young people that isnt full of young crusties who stand on street corners shouting "STOP the war in Iraq" or somesuch.

youth need a reason to go out and vote, a party they can empathise with, someone they believe is listening to them, and their concerns.

Liam Byrne

zuroph wrote: »

no, and neither has most of the population of the country. I'm basing this judgement on how he carries himself on the radio and tv, the main access point I have to the man. one of the most cringeworthy moments was while he was canvassing at last election and repeatedly referred to himself in the third person during an interview!!

charisma goes a long way, and unfortunately, for a long time, Bertie was the only one with any, and even he didnt have a lot.

Funny you should mention Bertie in the same post as calling Enda Kenny cringeworthy, considering the amount of cringes we've endured while watching Bertie "explain" the same things with 4 or 5 different stories each time.

Bertie didn't have "charisma" - he had the uncanny ability to have no convictions of his own and lean whatever way the wind was blowing in order to stay in power, while anything he told or promised people wasn't worth the paper it wasn't written on....

Anyone remember FF being elected on "zero tolerance" ? :rolleyes: That went out the window (with the exception of "zerio tolerance" of questioning or doubting their leader).

Liam Byrne

zuroph wrote: »

....young crusties who stand on street corners shouting "STOP the war in Iraq" or somesuch.

Nothing wrong with shouting that, zuroph; pity more people didn't shout it sooner.

zuroph

my problem is with them shouting it at me. "stop the war in Iraq" "Im sorry, Unfortunately I have no control over that, I gave up my control of the US government a long time ago."

dennisthemennis

1 of conor cruise o briens childrens.

jill_valentine

Honestly, I think Barack Obama's been an unwitting boon for Irish politics already, regardless of whether his actual presidency is any good. He's energised people, I know a lot of people who'd kind of given up on politics have started giving a crap about it again. I mean, this thread is kind of proof of that, people are looking at the guy and wondering if we can do something half as extraordinary as he has.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a whole new wave of young people getting involved at a practical political level here over the next couple of years.

dennisthemennis

i would fully support a revolution in ireland if it needed to be done.

Liam Byrne

zuroph wrote: »

my problem is with them shouting it at me. "stop the war in Iraq" "Im sorry, Unfortunately I have no control over that, I gave up my control of the US government a long time ago."

In an ideal world:
1) They shout it at the public
2) The public demand that FF revoke their - NOT OUR - support via the use of Shannon

At the moment, FF have put us all in a position of being implicated in the war by facilitating it.

I don't know if FF would listen to public opinion, but if they did THEN we'd have done our bit.

Ironically - just this week - they've decided to raise the issue now that the USA has a non-warmongering president on the way in.

But before then ? No way!!!! :mad:

zuroph

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Funny you should mention Bertie in the same post as calling Enda Kenny cringeworthy, considering the amount of cringes we've endured while watching Bertie "explain" the same things with 4 or 5 different stories each time.

Bertie didn't have "charisma" - he had the uncanny ability to have no convictions of his own and lean whatever way the wind was blowing in order to stay in power, while anything he told or promised people wasn't worth the paper it wasn't written on....

Anyone remember FF being elected on "zero tolerance" ? :rolleyes: That went out the window (with the exception of "zerio tolerance" of questioning or doubting their leader).

if u read my full posts, ud notice i said he didnt have much, but a little more than enda. At least bertie did the odd bit of "sure dont i watch the footy too?" rubbish. personally, i hate the lot of them.