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An Irish alternative to Barack Obama?

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13

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    #62
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    In an ideal world:
    1) They shout it at the public
    2) The public demand that FF revoke their - NOT OUR - support via the use of Shannon

    At the moment, FF have put us all in a position of being implicated in the war by facilitating it.

    I don't know if FF would listen to public opinion, but if they did THEN we'd have done our bit.

    Ironically - just this week - they've decided to raise the issue now that the USA has a non-warmongering president on the way in.

    But before then ? No way!!!! :mad:
    protests after protests, and the gov refused to put the matter up for discussion.

    all im saying is the youth need to be offered another choice other that "socialist". just cos they're young doesnt mean they all have the same views.


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    #63
    dennisthemennis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33 ✭dennisthemennis


    BTW hypotetically speaking i dont think in the next 20 years this could even be on the horizon in ireland, let alone anywhere else in europe but im confident that the younger generation would be more open to something like this. I'd be suprised if they are not.


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    #64
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    something like what?


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    #65
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    no cos we'll never have 'leftwing' taoiseach

    Because sure we'd never have an African American President, would we??? Our last leader insisted that he was amongst the last of the socialists, him and two others!
    zuroph wrote: »
    rubbish, people have party allegiances and stick to them, regardless of policy etc. if there was an election tomorrow FF would still hold a huge share of the vote regardless of the state they've put the country in.
    and a lot of people wont vote for kenny cos of his creepy personality.

    People will maintain party allegiances up to a point where they begin to suffer hardship. We have never had a potential leader that challenged us to confront our own set of political beliefs, when the chips were down, like what has happened in the US.

    It's grand in Celtic Tiger Ireland when we are all cleaning up and everything is grand, sure we'll just keep re-electing Beverley Flynn, Jackie Healy Rae, Michael Lowry, Ivor Callaley, Jim Mc Daid, and it'll all be grand...

    There's a new show in town now lads, the above are no longer safe, all it will take is one person who can join up the dots, who will banish the absolute useless from Irish politics for a long long time...

    FF are utterly and hopelessly FU*KED by their own actions, all it requires is a person to lead the charge of change...


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    #66
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    People will maintain party allegiances up to a point where they begin to suffer hardship. We have never had a potential leader that challenged us to confront our own set of political beliefs, when the chips were down, like what has happened in the US.

    good article by McWilliams today on this very point


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    #67
    Frankie Lee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭Frankie Lee


    I mentioned Varadkar tongue in cheek, he'd be more an Irish equivalant of Mussolini to be honest.

    Irish politics is a disaster, one way of helping new/smaller parties to have a greater influence is the abolition of pr voting, but thats controversial too.


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    #68
    gunner_twotone
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭gunner_twotone


    Well folks I agree alot of what has been said here. And mainly with Jill and Zuroph.

    I think we can all agree change is needed in this place we call Ireland, Politicians need a shake up and wake up call and the only way they'll get it is if a new fresh party gets in, Not just looking after the youth, looking after everyone.

    Our current list of partys spend their time fighting with each other just to make themselves look worthy of being there.

    If a new party is to be formed, Cut the giving out bull, cut the he said, she said. Get the finger out and get straight to the point.

    Or we can do what we've been doing for the last few years. Watching the country fall into a mess and just talk about it!

    Saying that Obama has done nothibng yet? I totally disagree, If anything he's get people talking, He's making politics interesting and he's giving hope to alot of people hope that they can change how the government works

    Can we start a party? Us few from Boards?
    We may have our different views, we may have our different opinions but there is one thing we have which is the same.....

    We all want change in this country


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    #69
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    good article by McWilliams today on this very point

    Is that c*nt copying my ideas again!?! :D:D:D


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    #70
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    Its absolutely laughable to think the irish would vote for a candidate whos both parents were nigerian(for example). Give us 30/40 years and thats still being generous.

    Somebody born in Ireland whose parents were both Nigerian would probably be about 5 at the moment. Somebody ( like Obama) who was of mixed-race might have a chance. Put Samantha Mumba up for election.

    In any case the reason why electing a black man is big for the US is bacause of centuries of slavery, and more than a century and a half of de jure discrimination - discrimination in law. Segregation, and so on.

    the election of a black man in Ireland has no such significance. We might as well worry about whether we elect half-spainards or protestants ( which we have done).


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    #71
    dennisthemennis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33 ✭dennisthemennis


    asdasd wrote: »
    Somebody born in Ireland whose parents were both Nigerian would probably be about 5 at the moment. Somebody ( like Obama) who was of mixed-race might have a chance. Put Samantha Mumba up for election.

    In any case the reason why electing a black man is big for the US is bacause of centuries of slavery, and more than a century and a half of de jure discrimination - discrimination in law. Segregation, and so on.

    the election of a black man in Ireland has no such significance. We might as well worry about whether we elect half-spainards or protestants ( which we have done).

    This.


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    #72
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    asdasd wrote: »
    Somebody born in Ireland whose parents were both Nigerian would probably be about 5 at the moment. Somebody ( like Obama) who was of mixed-race might have a chance. Put Samantha Mumba up for election.

    In any case the reason why electing a black man is big for the US is bacause of centuries of slavery, and more than a century and a half of de jure discrimination - discrimination in law. Segregation, and so on.

    the election of a black man in Ireland has no such significance. We might as well worry about whether we elect half-spainards or protestants ( which we have done).

    The election of Obama had little to do with his colour. When he speaks you can see why he was elected, you can believe in him, just look at the relief on every face you see when he is being interviewed, even the newscasters seem relieved that he was elected...


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    #73
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    gunner_twotone wrote: »

    Saying that Obama has done nothing yet? I totally disagree, If anything he's get people talking, He's making politics interesting and he's giving hope to a lot of people hope that they can change how the government works

    The reason he has energised people and got them talking is because of what he was running for. If he'd been running for Congress who'd have known anything about him.

    You also have to remember that collectively and politically we are conservatives at heart however much some of us get out in the street. We tend to prefer our politics safe and in the centre. Labour achieved great success when it became a little bit pink and moved a little to the centre and this is the furthest left large numbers of voters can be persuaded to stray.

    If it is hope and change people are looking for then they should be focussing on the Opposition parties and persuading/barracking(:D) them to come up with new thinking. Founding parties is all well and good but unless you have a group of very experienced politicians already , as the PDs did, a new party will probably have a limited shelf life.

    It is also difficult to compete in a small country. Go left and you meet SF/Greens/Socialists. Go right and you get the hard edge FG/PD voters and in the centre the big boys will swallow you up.


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    #74
    gunner_twotone
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭gunner_twotone


    That is the case!

    You hit the nail on the head!

    But are we to sit back and just accept this?


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    #75
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    The election of Obama had little to do with his colour. When he speaks you can see why he was elected, you can believe in him, just look at the relief on every face you see when he is being interviewed, even the newscasters seem relieved that he was elected...

    It has everything and nothing depending on your colour. For African-Americans it is the culmination of the MLK dream and as rightly been pointed out the end of the American chapter on slavery and everything that has come with it since that time. For the rest he managed to make it not about his colour but what he may be capable of doing.


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    #76
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    The election of Obama had little to do with his colour. When he speaks you can see why he was elected, you can believe in him, just look at the relief on every face you see when he is being interviewed, even the newscasters seem relieved that he was elected...

    I was responding to a poster who suggested that it would take 30-40 years before we elected nigerian descendents as taoiseach. so I was resonding to the colour issue. I dont know if I believe in Obama, or not. I would have voted for him were I in the US, but, actually, one of the scary things about the US is this infatuation with politicans - Reagan had some of that for the other side.

    I see politicans as a managerial class. Probably they wont change the world.
    But are we to sit back and just accept this?

    Since most people are in the centre then unless a new centrist part comes around - and the space is very competitive - then we are going to put up with it.


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    #77
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    eoinbn wrote: »
    Your grandfathers comment is pretty much what every FF support says when you ask them why did they vote FF-"they are all the same, might as well vote for them as the other crowd". However they never do vote for the other side, they always vote FF- odd that.

    I agree, I think for many people it's a case of ''better the devil you know''. I think this thread is a good indication that people want change, and hopefully, won't put up with the same lousy politicians anymore.


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    #78
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    the biggest single factor inhibiting political change in this country is the parish-pump nature of our politics.

    that's why buffoons like Healy-Rea get elected and are deemed (not entirely unreasonably) to be doing a great job for their constituents. Despite that great job being entirely against the national interest.

    or, to take another example, I am Minister for Health and wish to close down the old, inefficient and dangerous hospital in BackotheBog and open a brand new, modern, properly staffed hospital in LargerVille 50 miles away. Cue instant demonstrations in BackotheBog, aided and abetted by members of my own party and mass hysteria.

    This mindset needs to be changed.

    Reduce the number of TDs to 100 and elect them via a list system. Then they form a government and run the country in the national interest.

    Empower local councils, let them raise local taxes (yes - on property!) and look after local affairs.

    Obviously the above will never happen but it's nice to dream :rolleyes:


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    #79
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    zuroph wrote: »
    zig wrote: »
    I think its hilarious that theres so many Irish in support of obama yet the very same people want the eastern europeans/romanians/nigerians out.
    Its absolutely laughable to think the irish would vote for a candidate whos both parents were nigerian(for example). Give us 30/40 years and thats still being generous.
    theres a big difference between barack and a roma gypsy.
    I think you just emphasised the point.
    dennisthemennis wrote: »
    i would fully support a revolution in ireland if it needed to be done.
    You say you want a revolution...
    gunner_twotone wrote: »
    We all want change in this country
    I've lost track of how many times the word "change" has appeared on this thread - seems Obama really is having a big influence. However, I don't think a single person has suggested what this change would entail or, more importantly, how they would like to see it implemented.
    asdasd wrote: »
    In any case the reason why electing a black man is big for the US is bacause of centuries of slavery, and more than a century and a half of de jure discrimination - discrimination in law. Segregation, and so on.

    the election of a black man in Ireland has no such significance.
    I beg to differ. There was quite a bit of commotion when Rotimi Adebari was elected mayor of Portlaoise. A black TD would be a pretty big deal. A black taoiseach would be huge.


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    #80
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    djpbarry wrote: »
    I think you just emphasised the point.
    how?


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    #81
    gunner_twotone
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭gunner_twotone


    Change?

    Cut spendings with social welfare on uemployed non nationals. ( now dont jump the gun ) Those who are over here on their own free will, working becuase we pay higher or not working because we pay higher. We need to become more strict.

    We need to make sure that money that is being paid out, needs to be paid back in to the country and not overseas.

    Increase tax on higher earnings of 50k per annum and reduce it or cut it on wages from 12-28k per annum.

    Lower corporate tax, bring back the clean industries and get our manufactoring appeal back up.

    Start state works, get those who are skilled and not working invloved in state building like roads, housing, utilities. (3-6 month contracts until they get a private job)

    more ideas....?


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    #82
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    My 2 cents worth on this is that we have to fairly rapidly change our approach to entrepreneurship in this country. We have the people and the ability to sort out all our problems but a lot of the time, we are missing the confidence.

    Am I the only person noticing this, but this government has not done one single thing to actually resolve our economic problems??? Loads of cuts, increase the tax take, but not a single actual initiative taken to resolve the situation???


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    #83
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Just heard on the news that the Government have no power to force banks to pass on the ECB interest rate cut.....

    Sell Eircom & leave the country in the ****s for broadband costs and investment, with no clout or comeback other than giving them grants to do what they should be doing anyway
    Sell Aer Lingus without having the clout or urge to vote or request anything, even as a shareholder
    Bail out the banks without an ounce of influence

    What next ? Sell the land from under us to some company and have them charge us rent ?

    It'd be a joke on a farcical sitcom if we weren't all affected by it....

    We've GOT to find an Irish Obama and reform the political system so that representatives vote on behalf of their constituents instead of following the party.


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    #84
    simu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭simu


    Liam Byrne wrote: »

    We've GOT to find an Irish Obama and reform the political system so that representatives vote on behalf of their constituents instead of following the party.

    We can't just sit around waiting for a messiah though. Everyone should be a bit more critical of what our politicians say and do and have higher expectations of them. Any attempts to improve our political set up will be slow and arduous tbh.


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    #85
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Just heard on the news that the Government have no power to force banks to pass on the ECB interest rate cut.....

    Sell Eircom & leave the country in the ****s for broadband costs and investment, with no clout or comeback other than giving them grants to do what they should be doing anyway
    Sell Aer Lingus without having the clout or urge to vote or request anything, even as a shareholder
    Bail out the banks without an ounce of influence

    What next ? Sell the land from under us to some company and have them charge us rent ?

    It'd be a joke on a farcical sitcom if we weren't all affected by it....

    We've GOT to find an Irish Obama and reform the political system so that representatives vote on behalf of their constituents instead of following the party.

    They have plenty of power, if the banks don't play ball, fu*k them out of the Bank Guarantee Scheme, simple.


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    #86
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    simu wrote: »
    We can't just sit around waiting for a messiah though. Everyone should be a bit more critical of what our politicians say and do and have higher expectations of them. Any attempts to improve our political set up will be slow and arduous tbh.

    I think most people have written off the current political generation, I certainly have. They are beyond improvement or redemption in my opinion.


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    #87
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    gunner_twotone wrote: »
    Cut spendings with social welfare on uemployed non nationals.
    How original :rolleyes:.

    People receive welfare payments because they have earned them, Irish or non-Irish. Unless of course you're referring to welfare fraud, in which case I would say, why focus on non-Irish fraudsters? Why not get rid of all the spongers, Irish and non-Irish alike?
    gunner_twotone wrote: »
    We need to make sure that money that is being paid out, needs to be paid back in to the country and not overseas.
    People are entitled to spend their money wherever they chose.
    gunner_twotone wrote: »
    Increase tax on higher earnings of 50k per annum and reduce it or cut it on wages from 12-28k per annum.
    How much of an increase and how much of a cut? Looks like you want low-earners to go tax-free and bigger earners (although €50k is not that big) to pick up the tab?
    gunner_twotone wrote: »
    Lower corporate tax, bring back the clean industries and get our manufacturing appeal back up.
    If anything, this country needs to start looking beyond manufacturing. We can't compete with countries with lower cost bases, so we need to diversify.
    gunner_twotone wrote: »
    Start state works, get those who are skilled and not working invloved in state building like roads, housing, utilities. (3-6 month contracts until they get a private job)
    I'm not sure I follow this. It looks like you're suggesting that people should work for their dole?


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    #88
    RichTea
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭RichTea


    Táimid ábalata! or should that be beidh muid ábalta!


    Am I right!? eh? :D


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    #89
    asdasd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭asdasd


    that's why buffoons like Healy-Rea get elected and are deemed (not entirely unreasonably) to be doing a great job for their constituents. Despite that great job being entirely against the national interest.

    Actually politicans are elected to do a job for their constituents. The reaon why Healey Rae gets elected is because the people of the West of Ireland believe - not unreasonably - that public spending on infrastructure is concentrated on the East.


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    #90
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    asdasd wrote: »
    Actually politicans are elected to do a job for their constituents. The reaon why Healey Rae gets elected is because the people of the West of Ireland believe - not unreasonably - that public spending on infrastructure is concentrated on the East.

    I think you may have missed the point of my post

    (and when did Kerry South become part of the West of Ireland :confused:)


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    #91
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    ...and when did Kerry South become part of the West of Ireland
    Jackie Healy-Rae had it relocated.


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