An Irish alternative to Barack Obama?

asdasd

I think you may have missed the point of my post

No I didnt.

(and when did Kerry South become part of the West of Ireland )

I have to be honest with you its not in the East.

timbel

djpbarry wrote: »

It looks like you're suggesting that people should work for their dole?

I would agree with working for the dole.
Not straight away mind you, but say, 6 months after signing on, you would be required to do 20 hours work a week (be it for council, or something else). There would be flexibility in the actual days etc. if job interviews are lined up.

Also, what needs to be addressed is the public sector contracts people have - I'm talking about being unsackable, non performance-related pay rises, defined benefit pensions, bonuses for everyone. This is the biggest budget issue and it hasn't been addressed, and so the massive wage bill will be an issue every year during this recession.

Even if you can't get current employees off them, new contracts should apply to new employees (probably wont be many in next few years though).

Darragh29

There is no reason in 2008 why a public sector job should be protected. If redundancies have to be made in the public sector, then this should be accepted as being necessary, just like it is in the private sector.

timbel

Darragh29 wrote: »

There is no reason in 2008 why a public sector job should be protected. If redundancies have to be made in the public sector, then this should be accepted as being necessary, just like it is in the private sector.

Unfortunately, and predictably, the govt. dont have the liathroidi to stand up to the unions on this issue.
This is their opportunity, as the general public have accepted that there is a downturn, and changes have to be made, but still they wont do it

jmayo

gunner_twotone wrote: »

Well said,

But instead of a Party coming along saying they will do wonders, We need one that will act!

Talk is cheap in Leinster House, we need a party who is the people, for the people and will bring change that will work!

Hemmmm all Obama has done so far is actaully talk :rolleyes:
All we hear from their campaign is CHANGE, then voters/supporters are interviewed and they state he is for CHANGE and the country needs CHANGE.

Nobody has ever spelt out what these CHANGEs are or how they will be achieved ????
Has he ever really come out and stated what changes he will make?
AFAIK he went back on some of his ideas because they would be seen as somewhat left wing but dear god Left wing to some Americans is Mussolini.

I am glad he was elected because the other crowd were Republicans, had that nut job Palin and would continue Bush's ideas, but lets not carried away by the American hype, the guy has done nothing as of yet.

His campaign came up with a great slogan, he was the first African American that was attractive to non black voters, he was blessed by the fact that incumbent Republican has left the country in a mess (huge recession, banks in mess and two wars not winning) and the opposition shot itself in the foot with some campaign decisions.

But yet all we have seen from Obama is "style", let's now see the "substance".

gunner_twotone wrote: »

Nearly all our politicians have gone to college, have dealth with the higher class way of life since they were children.

What about the middle class?

We need someone from the middle class to help the middle class.

FF are high rollers, only looking after the Horse people, the Rich!

What about the normal 5 8's. Trying to make a living? What help do we get from the Country?

most students would be from middle class backgrounds, the great upper class often don't do college since they walk into money/jobs.

gunner_twotone wrote: »

He's done far more than any politician over here so far!

He's got the interest of a nation and for all the right reasons!

FFS he has still done squat diddly all :rolleyes:
He was senator for Illinois for 2 years, before that state senator and before that social worker I believe.
Where is the great experience, where are the great achievements ?
He has talked about CHANGE and hopefully he will bring some but I believe a lot of Americans, particularly the black Americans that voted for him are in for a surprise if they think that things will suddenly change overnight and they will be in the land of milk and honey.

We are all getting carried away with this guys campaign.
He is charismatic but then so were half the world's dictators.
If we go off looking for some guy that can talk well, look good, make nice speeches and forget to look behind the image then we are in for a surprise.

jill_valentine

First off, his entire victory speech was basically "Things are going to suck for a while, sorry, but we'll work at it."

Second, Obama has outlined quite a few of his policy intentions, it just tends to be a bit buried under the more news-friendly elements of his campaign, so it takes a bit of digging.

lostexpectation

somebody over at p.ie suggested john hume, if you consider sectarianism our biggest issue.

lostexpectation

it seems this was all about timing if we had our election this week instead of the summer what would have been the result?

little feat

It would have to be Leo Varadkar ticking all the boxes there.

CDfm

Willie O'Dea

O'Dea is very like Obama.

Both are lawyers.

Both would sell their souls to be on TV

Both come from gangster areas - Obama from Chicago and O'Dea from Limerick

O'Dea was once rumoured to have said when Bertie Aherne didnt appoint him to the Cabinet "Am I black" ..... (ive made that one up)

wildsaffy

ok...

If you woke up in the morning and you were Obama and you had to run a campaign against a oil run government (see Pelican Brief).... what would you do?

1) Reveal all your cards in one go?

ack - just have to leave it at (1).

Remember the race he had to run. To win people over - that was the main target - not to discuss the bones of what he would do.

The other side said publicly they would run a dirty tricks campaign.

Barack "Steve" Obama had to get the people on his side.

So only now can the campaign turn to what he is going to do. And I think Russia underestimates him.

Lets watch.

wildsaffy

Made my decision.

Am going for it.

Any suggestions?

CDfm

I like Arnie in California

What I like is when they have great tax receipts he resists pressure to go out and spend spend spend and wants to limit the expenditure increases to say 5% per year. So when there is a downturn your expenditure is sustainable.

In Irelands boom we were increased nurses ,teachers and civil service pay to Stripper Money- we were flash with the cash

Everyone always think that with nurses and teachers they are gods gift but when the nurses got the pay they came back for less hours and free weekends.

At least a Stripper knows where the money comes from.

wildsaffy

Lol....

Am re-considering - maybe I SHOULD be a stripper instead!

(is off looking for a pole (pole as in iron bar, not man from Poland))

djpbarry

timbel wrote: »

Not straight away mind you, but say, 6 months after signing on, you would be required to do 20 hours work a week (be it for council, or something else).

Doing what exactly? What about the existing council workers?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CDfm wrote: »

I like Arnie in California

What I like is when they have great tax receipts he resists pressure to go out and spend spend spend and wants to limit the expenditure increases to say 5% per year. So when there is a downturn your expenditure is sustainable.

In Irelands boom we were increased nurses ,teachers and civil service pay to Stripper Money- we were flash with the cash

Everyone always think that with nurses and teachers they are gods gift but when the nurses got the pay they came back for less hours and free weekends.

At least a Stripper knows where the money comes from.

If they'd invested it in public services and infrastructure instead of giving it to private contractors, we might be in a better position now than we are.

molloyjh

I haven't read all of the posts here yet so apologies if this has been dealt with already.....

What strikes me is the old saying "You get the Government you deserve". at the end of the day the electorate went out and voted for FF last year. Now we can turn around and say that it was as a result of there being little to no worthwhile competition, but let's be fair about this, as the electorate we are the ones ultimately responsible for politics in this country. If there was a need for a proper alternative one would exist to satisfy "the market".

The US is a very different kettle of fish for a number of reasons. First, as has been said already, they fawn over their politicians. To me that is totally upside down. The politicians are supposed to be loyal to the people not the other way around. It's a bloody circus over there. Secondly there is, and always has been, a very clear idealogical difference between the 2 main parties in the US, which is itself Civil War-esque. There are the pro-federalists and anti-federalists.

Here we are a bit more level-headed (or cynical, whatever way you want to look at it). Politicians need to prove themselves to us. We're also sick and tired of the BS. If a poltician came around spouting some of the stuff Obama has been saying we'd think he was a bit of a fruit loop. What we need is a straight talker. Not someone to inspire, just someone to respect, admire and trust. Someone we feel can and will do the job, even if (s)he doesn't have the fancy rhetoric to compare to Obama.

The electorate may well not elect such a person though if one existed. There are still huge sections of the population who are loyal to a particular party, as though they were a football team or something. The mind-set of the people here needs to change. A new party should not have new idealogies nessecarily, just a new no BS approach and the right attitude to getting the job done. Ireland is by and large a very centrist country, with very little in the way of clashing indeologies and out politics reflects that, and will need to continue reflecting that. The focus should be more on ability, which in theory should serve us far better in the long run.

molloyjh

CDfm wrote: »

I like Arnie in California

What I like is when they have great tax receipts he resists pressure to go out and spend spend spend and wants to limit the expenditure increases to say 5% per year. So when there is a downturn your expenditure is sustainable.

In Irelands boom we were increased nurses ,teachers and civil service pay to Stripper Money- we were flash with the cash

Everyone always think that with nurses and teachers they are gods gift but when the nurses got the pay they came back for less hours and free weekends.

At least a Stripper knows where the money comes from.

This nurses argument to me is a silly one. They are severly underpaid compared to many otherWestern countries and work huge hours. Not to mention that they do so to protect your health and mine, not to mention our lives. But no, let's target them shall we?

The problem with the health service is not the nurses, it is the consultants and the "too many chiefs" syndrome.

Also teachers should be rewarded in a society that is trying to build a knowledge based economy. Education in general needs more investment if that's where we're going.

Generally in the public sector better use of resources, rather than less pay or more hours, is the solution. Sure there may be cutbacks required in some areas, but not wholesale reductions in salaries.

CDfm

Whenever I hear how good Irish nurses are my skin crawls.

They are not great.

THat somehow Irish nurses ended up amongst the best paid in Europe if not the world is incredulous -truly shocking in its awesomeness. They cant mop a floor and the biggest danger in a hospital is cross infection. They all want to be doctors but dont have the points.

Fire the lot of them and replace them with philipinos who would work for half the money.

You can never have enough money for nurses and teachers - they are the vampires on public services.

The nurses dont nurse. The teachers dont teach. Or so they keep telling us despite all the money they get.

djpbarry

CDfm wrote: »

They cant mop a floor and the biggest danger in a hospital is cross infection. They all want to be doctors but dont have the points.

Wow. Generalise much?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

molloyjh wrote: »

This nurses argument to me is a silly one. They are severly underpaid compared to many otherWestern countries and work huge hours. Not to mention that they do so to protect your health and mine, not to mention our lives. But no, let's target them shall we?

The problem with the health service is not the nurses, it is the consultants and the "too many chiefs" syndrome.

Also teachers should be rewarded in a society that is trying to build a knowledge based economy. Education in general needs more investment if that's where we're going.

Generally in the public sector better use of resources, rather than less pay or more hours, is the solution. Sure there may be cutbacks required in some areas, but not wholesale reductions in salaries.

I had this discussion with him. He seems to think they should work 60 hours a week for minium wage - anything else and they're ripping us of.

However, if you do go down this route, this is what you're dealing with.

CDfm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I had this discussion with him. He seems to think they should work 60 hours a week for minium wage - anything else and they're ripping us of.

However, if you do go down this route, this is what you're dealing with.

I actually dont - what I think is that the hospital system is set up towards a particular employment model - 24 hour shift work etc.

the capital spend is mighty on hopitals - for what-the staff dont work those hours - so a lot of the capital spend is underutilised and wasted.

nurses are supposed to be the front line management - but they dont manage.
nurses take no responsibility for the mess the health service is in

dont tell me HSE is at fault - because their worker representatives undermine the process -with stage managed protests

based on these assumptions you have a health service and pay structure

however in ireland pay is higher than elsewhere

these include generous pensions worth at least 20% of salary ( public service pensions being final salary schemes which are index linked)

so in return for these pay and conditions I would expect to see some form of flexible working from nurses.

the health service is a black hole and an over pampered money pit

nurses interests go first before any patients rights

Acacia

CDfm wrote: »

They all want to be doctors but dont have the points.

Actually, I know a few nurses ( and people training to be nurses) who don't want to be doctors, never aspired to be doctors, they just wanted to nurse because they enjoy the job. I don't know where people get the idea that nursing is the 'second-best' option to being a doctor- some people actually enjoy nursing.

CDfm wrote: »

Fire the lot of them and replace them with philipinos who would work for half the money.

Yeah, that's what we need, more people on the dole. :rolleyes: And we should exploit foreign workers while we're at it?

An excellent plan, indeed.

CDfm wrote: »

The teachers dont teach.

Since when?

CDfm

Acacia wrote: »

Actually, I know a few nurses ( and people training to be nurses) who don't want to be doctors, never aspired to be doctors, they just wanted to nurse because they enjoy the job. I don't know where people get the idea that nursing is the 'second-best' option to being a doctor- some people actually enjoy nursing.

So do I - as I general point I feel - that nurses are paid on the structures they are to account for working unsocial hours.

A relative of mine had an operation 3 years back and on Friday was sunny - so the nurses were at reception ringing up relativres to empty the wards for the weekend. They were on their holidays.

THats what I heard and saw

molloyjh

CDfm wrote: »

So do I - as I general point I feel - that nurses are paid on the structures they are to account for working unsocial hours.

A relative of mine had an operation 3 years back and on Friday was sunny - so the nurses were at reception ringing up relativres to empty the wards for the weekend. They were on their holidays.

THats what I heard and saw

This has all gone way off topic, but suffice to say that my experience of nurses is far better than yours. And either way your whole point on nursing and the Health Service is irrelevant to this thread. If you want to create a new one fire away and we'll respond to that, but air your grievances in the appropriate place. A discussion on the need for political change certainly isn't it.

We also need, as an electorate and a people I feel, to stop this finger pointing, me feiner, begrudging nonesense. I've seen too much of it of late and it has a direct impact on our politics by who we elect etc. For example the whole getting TDs involved in local affairs for selfish reasons - ah sure won't he help me out wirth the auld planning permission - has to be knocked on the head once and for all. A TDs job is to represent his or her constituency on national issues. Local issues are for the local council. It's about time we insisted that our representatives focused on their own jobs. Maybe we might get better service from them.....but then the me feiners, and there are a lot of them, wouldn't feel quite so important or looked after.....

zuroph

molloyjh wrote: »

This has all gone way off topic, ..

Don't you hate pants?!

lostexpectation

Leo Varadkar why, he's young ok, next...?

asdasd

Leo Varadkar why, he's young ok, next...?

Presumably, given the name, of immigrant stock half of immigrant stock, Exactly like Obama ( not a descendants of slave after all).

Does not have the Messianic quality. Not the One.

is_that_so

asdasd wrote: »

Presumably, given the name, of immigrant stock half of immigrant stock, Exactly like Obama ( not a descendants of slave after all).

Does not have the Messianic quality. Not the One.

Hyperactive puppy who seriously needs a leash. He started well but lately he has not performed well at all and is continually confusing words that come out of his mouth with intelligence.