M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Sponge Bob

The FF bit of the cabinet (including Dempsey ) is trapped in the Ardilaun hotel because Galway is completely gridlocked after a pedestrian was knocked over at lunchtime, this is ****ing ridiculous ...

?Cee?view

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The FF bit of the cabinet (including Dempsey ) is trapped in the Ardilaun hotel because Galway is completely gridlocked after a pedestrian was knocked over at lunchtime, this is ****ing ridiculous ...

Maybe O'Brolcháin and the Greens will rescue Cowen and give him a crossbar to Oranmore on his shiny subsidised bicycle? After all, we apparently don't need a bypass as cycle paths are going to solve Galway's traffic chaos.

Sponge Bob

churchview wrote: »

Maybe O'Brolcháin and the Greens will rescue Cowen and give him a crossbar to Oranmore on his shiny subsidised bicycle?

Funny that, the last time I actually saw O Brolcháin was in that very same Ardilaun which was his sort of 'constituency office' when he was a councillor in Galway.

I'd say the FFers would wrap the bike around his neck and drag the bicycle and impaled senator around the Ardilaun carpark tied to a state merc ...more like ...while tweeting back at Dan Boyle of course

KevR

Today was the worst traffic I have ever seen anywhere in my entire life. It can only be described as an extraordinary event. And all because one very short stretch of road was closed because of an accident. It doesn't say much for the Galway road/transport network.

I'm glad all the Fianna Fáilers are here to witness it.

@churchview: the 'Smart Travel Plan' (i.e. - a few random cycle and bus lanes) that the Greens think will reduce cars use by 50%. Hilarious!


I ordered a pizza about an hour ago and it still ain't here. I'm starting to feel dizzy I'm so hungry.

dubhthach

KevR wrote: »

I ordered a pizza about an hour ago and it still ain't here. I'm starting to feel dizzy I'm so hungry.

Is the Pizza free if it takes over an hour to deliver?

It sounds like a "perfect storm" hit the traffic in Galway today.

antoobrien

dubhthach wrote: »

Is the Pizza free if it takes over an hour to deliver?

It sounds like a "perfect storm" hit the traffic in Galway today.

A few extra mercs about brings the city to gridlock:rolleyes:

apoeiguq3094y

KevR wrote: »

I'm glad all the Fianna Fáilers are here to witness it.

Its not Fianna Fail that you ahve to blame for the lack of a bypass. FF are big supproters of it, its the successive Labour party controlled councils that you can thanks for one of the worst road networks known to man.

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

Today was the worst traffic I have ever seen anywhere in my entire life. It can only be described as an extraordinary event. And all because one very short stretch of road was closed because of an accident. It doesn't say much for the Galway road/transport network.

I'm glad all the Fianna Fáilers are here to witness it.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/15011-galway-gridlock-rounds-cowens-bad-trip

Poor Brian, it only took him 45 minutes to get from the Ardilaun to the motorway leaving at 5pm.

KevR

I emailed the Galway City Council roads department to ask if the results of last year's huge traffic counting exercise are publicly available.

This is the reply I got:

Galway City Council wrote:

11th October 2010,

Good Evening Kevin,

Further to your email this morning, Mr. *******, Senior Executive Enginner has advised on the matter.

We are carrying out Traffic Counts on an annual basis throughout the City. The current data has not been made
available on our website. The large volume of data is presented in such a way that it would not be readable for general use.
Primarily it is used for updating our Traffic Model of the City Networks only.

The data is obtained by carrying out 15mins traffic counts for different vehicle types, per lane, travelling in each direction
over a period of 7 days at various locations.

However, our website - www.galwaycity.ie contains daily flows at key locations (calculations were amended to make them
readable for the general public) under our Smarter Travel Bid by the Galway Transportation Unit Section. This information
may be of interest to you.

I hope the above information is of assistance to you.

Regards,

****** *******,
Staff Officer,
Transportation, Infrastructure, Recreation & Amenity Section.

I can't for the life of me find what the staff officer is talking about.


All I could find was this:
Average Annual Daily Traffic (AADT) Counts of 139,122 for the main approach roads to Galway City have been recorded with vehicular levels in excess of 8,347 at peak hours. While these counts do not depict the purpose of travel i.e. for work/education/leisure etc, the figures at peak hours suggest a car dominated work/school related trips. Notably, the greatest traffic volumes are recorded from the east, and south eastern area with an AADT count of 95,222 for N17, R339, N6 and R338 and N18.
[Source: Page 5 of this document]

Better than nothing but I'd really like to see traffic counts for individual roads and not just approach roads, but other roads including all of the 4 bridges.

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

Notably, the greatest traffic volumes are recorded from the east, and south eastern area with an AADT count of 95,222 for N17, R339, N6 and R338 and N18.
[Source: Page 5 of this document]

Better than nothing but I'd really like to see traffic counts for individual roads and not just approach roads, but other roads including all of the 4 bridges.

Not exactly a shock that the majority of the traffic comes in the Tuam Moniivea and (from Oranmore, where the Gort road joins) Dublin Rds as the majority of people in the county live east of the corrib.

I'd love to see what the counts are in the Terryland/Woodquay area as this is where all the traffic is essentially funneled by the current roads

Aidan1

There's some really good data here;

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/ProjectsandSchemes/GalwayCityAtlas20082009/FileEnglish,5903,en.pdf

It basically shows what has already been explained, most of the recent population growth in Galway has been on one side of the river, while the jobs are elsewhere. Even in a country where poor urban planning is a given, this deserves a particular award for short sightedness.

serfboard

Aidan1 wrote: »

There's some really good data here;

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/ProjectsandSchemes/GalwayCityAtlas20082009/FileEnglish,5903,en.pdf

It basically shows what has already been explained, most of the recent population growth in Galway has been on one side of the river, while the jobs are elsewhere. Even in a country where poor urban planning is a given, this deserves a particular award for short sightedness.

Agree with your comment and thank you very much for sharing this information. Very interesting report. I like this:

This reflects the need for a bus service that links to the East Side Industrial Corridor.

Which I have been banging on about for years. Frequent, reliable public transport (i.e. bus service) linking Knocknacarra (which is called Barna in the report - because most of urban Knocknacara is in the Barna electoral area) to Ballybrit particularly at peak times is so obviously called for it's maddeningly frustrating that it hasn't been delivered. Hopefully, the Bus lanes on Seamus Quirke road will facilitate that happening.

antoobrien

serfboard wrote: »

Agree with your comment and thank you very much for sharing this information. Very interesting report. I like this:



Which I have been banging on about for years. Frequent, reliable public transport (i.e. bus service) linking Knocknacarra (which is called Barna in the report - because most of urban Knocknacara is in the Barna electoral area) to Ballybrit particularly at peak times is so obviously called for it's maddeningly frustrating that it hasn't been delivered. Hopefully, the Bus lanes on Seamus Quirke road will facilitate that happening.

That's ok, but it will only attenuate part of the problem. What about the 20,000 plus cars that pass through Claregalway every day? They're not all heading into CG village or Oranmore, where'll we put those vehicles? All of these eventually run into the same chokepoints at Moneenagehsa, Cemetry Cross & Headford Rd RAB.

Public transport is not a valid option because it is unreliable and expensive. It's unreliable as it has to use the same roads as other vehicles and we don't have the space to make the kind of QBCs that make Dublin Bus bearible (not good, mind you) an they eventually get caught somewhere.

As for the expense, look at the prices, 1.60 flat rate for all buesses in Galway. So going from Ballybrit to Salthill is charged twice as much as going from Mervie to Salthill using solely public transport (becuase you have to change bus).

The only real way of making PT in galway an option is by removing unncessesary cars from the main arteries out of town i.e. the Tuam, Headford, Dublin, Bearna & Moycullen Rds.
outrageous when you consider Mervue to Salthill is the same price)

serfboard

antoobrien wrote: »

That's ok, but it will only attenuate part of the problem. What about the 20,000 plus cars that pass through Claregalway every day? They're not all heading into CG village or Oranmore, where'll we put those vehicles?

Indeed. The solution I was proposing would only solve one part of the problem. The M17 will take most of the traffic out of Claregalway. As to those who believe it won't, I would suggest that M17+M6 will be quicker than N17. However, you'll then have a massive problem at Doughiska.

antoobrien wrote: »

They're not all heading into CG village or Oranmore, where'll we put those vehicles?

Yes, but they're not all heading into the city centre either.

antoobrien wrote: »

All of these eventually run into the same chokepoints at Moneenagehsa, Cemetry Cross & Headford Rd RAB.

Not correct. The biggest destinations for commuters into Galway are Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue/GMIT, NUIG/UHG, and then the centre. Moneenagehsa and Cemetry Cross don't feature for what the report calls the "East side industrial corridor".

As for Claregalway, ask yourself this question - there are bus lanes there now - why don't more people get the bus? Some possible reasons:

A. People are unaware that a service exists. However, Burkes bus serve Tuam, Dunmore, Milltown and Headford, Loughrea and Craughwell are served by Citylink, Athenry has the train and that doesn't include Bus Eireann services.
B. Public Transport is insufficient in terms of times and destinations.
C. People have drop-offs to do along the way
D. They just don't like using public transport (or buses specifically).

antoobrien wrote: »

Public transport is not a valid option because it is unreliable and expensive. It's unreliable as it has to use the same roads as other vehicles and we don't have the space to make the kind of QBCs that make Dublin Bus bearible (not good, mind you) an they eventually get caught somewhere.

There are bus lanes in Claregalway and along the Dublin Road in Galway. There will soon be bus lanes on Seamus Quirke Road too. We're slowly getting the message in Galway.

As for your other point, I agree that there is too much congestion in the city centre. There is also too much car parking in the city centre, which encourages congestion. And that's why after the outer bypass is built, we will have to get much tougher in Galway. We will have to introduce congestion charges or hike up car parking charges. That's the stick. The carrot will be, as I've said already, Bus Park & Ride coupled with QBCs, with buses going to where people work i.e. Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue, NUIG/UHG, GMIT and the City Centre in that order.

Put them in Barna, Dangan, Ballindooley, Loughgeorge, Doughiska/Oranmore and eventually Rathmorrissey when the M17/M18 gets built, and have low-cost services every 15 minutes at peak times.

antoobrien wrote: »

As for the expense, look at the prices, 1.60 flat rate for all buesses in Galway. So going from Ballybrit to Salthill is charged twice as much as going from Mervie to Salthill using solely public transport (becuase you have to change bus).

Agree. Look how successful Park & Ride is at Christmas. It's cheap and it's frequent.

antoobrien wrote: »

The only real way of making PT in galway an option is by removing unncessesary cars from the main arteries out of town i.e. the Tuam, Headford, Dublin, Bearna & Moycullen Rds.

Agree. Bus P&R and car parking/congestion charging will solve this though. As for QBCs, well we are getting bus lanes, but we will also have to think about making certain roads bus-only, possibly just at peak times. They do this in other countries already. Roads like Lough Atalia, College Road, Prospect Hill.

We will also need Real Time Passenger Information like they are rolling out in Dublin and like Bus Eireann have for expressway services for Galway City services too. I don't think that we will need the fancy bus stops as you can check by text and most people will have smart phones eventually.

In short, we will need carrot and stick. Bus lanes suggest to me that we are getting there, albeit slowly. We next need more (yes, and cheaper) city bus services and P&R for the out-of-towners. The stick of parking/congestion charging and bus-only streets will also have to be adopted.

Public Transport will solve Galway's problems eventually, because it will have to. The centre is too small for the volume of traffic. But we also need the bypass.

antoobrien

Just listening to GBFM (hope that the tribune etc have an article on this) - according one of the sat nav providers (not sure which one, missed the start) based on their figures: Galway is the most congested town/city in Ireland

I'd love to get hold of their figures to see where they see the problems.

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

I'd love to get hold of their figures to see where they see the problems.

Everywhere from Salthill to the Blackrock Clinic every working day from 4-7 PM ...and at weekends too when it rains.

KevR

I can just about resist the temptation to post this in the M1 widening thread. People getting seriously offended in there when I tried to make the point that delays experienced on a short section of the M1 (a fully grade seperated motorway) are nowhere near as bad as delays experienced throughout the whole of Galway City (where vast volumes of traffic gets funnelled into a small number of at-grade roundabouts and signalised junctions).


On another note, Galway City Council are again carrying out a huge traffic counting excercise. I really wish they would make their findings publically available like the NRA do with their traffic counts.

Fozzie Bear

antoobrien wrote: »

Just listening to GBFM (hope that the tribune etc have an article on this) - according one of the sat nav providers (not sure which one, missed the start) based on their figures: Galway is the most congested town/city in Ireland

I'd love to get hold of their figures to see where they see the problems.

Heard this too on Newstalk I think. They mentioned "TomTom" as having carried out the survey so I presume it was them.

Galway is the most congested city in Ireland followed by Limerick and Dublin according to their research. No real surprise to any of us that have driven across town during peak times or indeed off peak too. Its just crazy that we are still one of the few remaining major urban areas without a bypass in Ireland. The chances of us getting one are decreasing by the week with the way things are going now.

Bloody bog cotton and tree hugging do gooders. Jesus wept!

KevR

The Irish Examiner has the story:

Gridlocked Galway heads list of congested cities

By Evelyn Ring
Friday, November 12, 2010
GALWAY is the most congested city in Ireland with almost 40% of roads gridlocked, a study has found.


Dublin and Limerick come a close second and third, with both cities having close to 30% of roads clogged with traffic.

And it is bad news for Cork and Waterford who took fourth and fifth place in the top traffic hotspots.

The study was published yesterday by TomTom, a leading satellite navigator provider, with rankings based on how fast cars can travel on a city or town’s road network.

The percentage measurements were made by the anonymous speed data that TomTom collects every day from drivers who use its devices. Wherever drivers were travelling at only 70% or less than the posted speed limit, traffic was defined as congested. And the congestion meant that an hour-long commute would include 20 minutes or more of significant delays.

The percentages refer to main roads that experienced congestion during a day.

"Navigation isn’t just about getting from A to B anymore. It’s about finding the quickest and easiest route to your destination," said TomTom’s Ireland country manager David Crotty.

TomTom also plans to publish a list of Ireland’s most congested roads next month, but two such roads in Munster have been revealed already — the M8 going towards the N8 and the Commons Road, Cork.

TomTom’s chief technology manager, Mark Gretton, said the information was extremely reliable because it was based on the actual measured flow rate of every single road. He pointed out that the congestion rate for Galway was high because it had fewer roads in the city. "Dublin may have more kilometres of roadways but, as a percentage, Galway was higher," he explained. "Because we got this database showing how fast everyone is actually travelling at any given time on a road, we can work out the most congested street and most congested time and build better ‘sat navs’. Instead of basing a route on road categories, which is how most systems work, we use it on the measured average speed and that means a driver is given a different route for a different time of the day."

Mr Gretton said a division of TomTom specialised in extracting statistics and making it available to local authorities to help planners. "Government have been trying to collect this kind of data for years using students and strips in the road, which is very expensive. We have 45m motorists driving around Europe and feeding the information back all the time."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfmhgbcwojkf/rss2/

antoobrien

KevR wrote: »

The Irish Examiner has the story:

Cheers, I missed most of the story on GBFM and was altered to it by someone listening in at home

L1011

Ahh, the Examiner. You can take the paper out of Cork but can't take the Cork out of de paper. Notice how it zones in on some of the congested roads being in Munster...

veryangryman

Anyone here who actually thinks a bypass of Galway (in its current proposed form) would help?

How much long distance traffic gets in the way - Clifden-N6 and thats about it

Unless the proposed bypass stretches out towards Salthill, i cant see it seriously helping. Currently it will end at the N59 junction

Look at Waterford/Limerick. Still the cities are very clogged up post bypass.

Sponge Bob

veryangryman wrote: »

Unless the proposed bypass stretches out towards Salthill, i cant see it seriously helping. Currently it will end at the N59 junction

Finish Phase 2 of the Bwarna Bypass ( the westernmost segment less than 1km long) and then improve the road from the eastern end of the existing phase one of the Bwarna Bypass ( just north of the 12 in Barna ) to a roundabout at Tooreeny/Corcullen on the N59.

That would sort things out for West and South Connemara for quite some time I should think .

Once you take those out you halve the demand coming from the west of the Corrib. Of the population there 45000 people live WEST OF the City and around 35,000 IN THE WEST of the City. They all share the same 4 bridges now.

dubhthach

veryangryman wrote: »

Anyone here who actually thinks a bypass of Galway (in its current proposed form) would help?

How much long distance traffic gets in the way - Clifden-N6 and thats about it

Unless the proposed bypass stretches out towards Salthill, i cant see it seriously helping. Currently it will end at the N59 junction

Look at Waterford/Limerick. Still the cities are very clogged up post bypass.

It doesn't help that both Waterford/Limerick bypasses are tolled though does it? As far as I know there was never a plan to toll the outer-bypass in Galway. Once you go north of the quincentennial bridge the next closest east-west link is at north of Loch Corrib at Cong.

Of course the bypass proposal is suppose to stretch to Bearna and have a spur to Western Distributor road if it wasn't for that common as dirt Bog cotton. The spur to western distrubitor road would probably take a big chunk of the traffic originating in Knocknacarra. The Gaelgóirs would get on at Bearna.

At the end of the day the main problem with Galway is that all the industry/jobs is on the east side of the city but most of the residential is on the west. Without some form of office/industrial development in the western part of the city there will also be a major issue regarding commuting traffic traversing the city centre.

Sponge Bob

dubhthach wrote: »

Without some form of office/industrial development in the western part of the city there will also be a major issue regarding commuting traffic traversing the city centre.

Not forgetting the only decent hospital in the entire HSE Western region is on the west side of the city and that access to it is severely choked.

HSE west covers all the western seaboard from Limerick to Donegal, the specialties are increasingly concentrated on the 'wrong' side of the Corrib.

apoeiguq3094y

[QUOTE=dubhthach;68991897

At the end of the day the main problem with Galway is that all the industry/jobs is on the east side of the city but most of the residential is on the west. Without some form of office/industrial development in the western part of the city there will also be a major issue regarding commuting traffic traversing the city centre.
[/QUOTE]

I can't see any company basing their operations on the west side of the city. It would be easier for staff, but deliveries would take ages crossing over the river. It would add an extra 30 mins at least each way on almost every route out fo the city (except clifden).

dubhthach

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

I can't see any company basing their operations on the west side of the city. It would be easier for staff, but deliveries would take ages crossing over the river. It would add an extra 30 mins at least each way on almost every route out fo the city (except clifden).

Well my point is more of a retrospective one. If industrial/commercial development had been more balanced across the whole of the city then the cross-town commuting traffic wouldn't necessary be as bad.

Anyways there shouldn't be anything stopping service based companies (non-manufacturing/delivery) basing themselves in the western half of the City. The Galway Metropolitan Area Network (MAN) goes out as far as VHI on the western distrubitor road. There's only one real business park on western side of the river and that's in Dangan on the N59 (across from the Westwood Hotel).

munchkin_utd

dubhthach wrote: »

<snip>At the end of the day the main problem with Galway is that all the industry/jobs is on the east side of the city but most of the residential is on the west. Without some form of office/industrial development in the western part of the city there will also be a major issue regarding commuting traffic traversing the city centre.

Thats part 1 of 2 of the problem

part 2 of 2 is that there's no reliable public transport to get people from where they live to their jobs.

If there was a bus that got you from Knocknacara area to Mervue area in 15 or 20 mins then you would eliminate 100s if not thousands of cars off the roads at peak times leaving space for those who REALLY need to use a car to get to/ from further afield.

123easy

Surely some of the traffic problems in Galway city are at least partially due to the fact that a lot of the drivers in the city are so bloody slow moving off at junctions. If every driver floored it the millisecond the lights hit green and expedited their passage through the junctions and the other imbeciles didnt blockup up entire roundabouts trying bully their way onto an already blocked up exit lane then things wouldnt be as bad at rush hour.

Dont get me going about the brigade that rocket out in front of you forcing you to brake and then proceed to crawl around the city doing 15-20mph when they could be doing at least 30mph.

Chris_5339762

Part of the problem with all the roundabouts is the lane markings on most of them. You can go to every driving school there is and follow the rules of the road to the letter and still get mightily confused as to which lane to be in. And at rush hour when you have about a second to make a dash out infront of a bus to get onto the roundabout its not fun.

I lived in Galway for several years and traffic aside, driving in Dublin is far less stressful than Galway.