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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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Comments

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Decision deferred until October 1st.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    I’ve tried to steer clear of the car crash (pun intended) that is the Galway bypass / ring road / relief road or whatever it’s called. But after today’s farce, surely it’s time to demand answers & explanations as to what the hold up on the decision is.

    Galway is a City, supposedly. Yet it is the only City in Ireland that does not have adequate infrastructure for it to function properly. If this bypass isn’t the answer, give the planning denial now so another option can be explored.

    Without building another bridge and much more infrastructure around the city, Galway will fail to develop properly into the future. It will also prevent alternative modes of transport + travel being developed in the City as it continues to struggle to accommodate cars, buses, pedestrians & cyclists on extremely narrow one way lanes.

    The planning process in Ireland seems to be a mess. It’s fair to say a certain number of people in Galway are anti development + want to keep things as they are as it benefits them personally. This group of people will have a lot to answer for as Galway begins to be bypassed as a place to attract & sustain good jobs into the future. Limerick has a tunnel & even Mayo are getting a dual carriageway around Castlebar to Westport. Said county is also full of Greenways & I love to cycle them. Limerick also has a new Greenway built.

    It’s not a car v bike argument as some on this thread would like people to believe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Whether or not this does get approved is now less important than someone (anyone!) just making a decision on the matter. Right now, the route’s indeterminate state creates such a huge uncertainty in transport spending that it is preventing any major investment in improving transportation in Galway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    If it gets approved, the uncertainty and delays in other investments are likely to remain as legal challenges look to be inevitable. Even if it survived those, this project could struggle to get approval under Public Spending Code (already expected to cost €600m with that possibly rising), government policy moving away from supporting car commuting (which this certainly does), not fitting within carbon budget, etc. Approval by ABP just kicks off new processes

    This was always going to be the issue here, they basically put all their eggs in the basket that is an extremely difficult to construct road and figure everything else out later. Even with everything running smoothly and minimal delays, the road as designed was always going to take a decade from initial design to opening to traffic. The current uncertainty in transport spending and preventing any major investment in improving transportation in Galway was accepted a long time ago, as if having everything hinging on it would somehow ease this road concept's passage.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Yes. If one were cynical, one might think that the M6 is now being used mainly as an excuse for inaction on any other project that might involve constructing a road. There’s a need for a bypass, for the small amount of traffic that needs to cross the Corrib without going through Galway, but that road doesn’t need to be a huge neighbourhood collector-distributor scheme like M6.

    With so much of the current city traffic being car-based commuters, if there was €600M to be spent, I’d put it into kicking off a light-rail system for the city, fed by a much-improved bus service and Park-and-ride.



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    To be fair, given the condition of our planning system, the same long delays are in store for any serious transport project. It only takes one disgruntled person to set a project through years of judicial review and appeals.

    A Gluas or any ambitious BusConnects will likely be stuck in the same planning nightmare as the bypass for years to come, unless the system is radically reformed.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    True to an extent, however, the issues that any Gluas or BusConnects program would face would be of a very different kind to the ones the ring road will face. The ring road will run into issues with environmental laws that the TII simply won't be able to engineer around. A Gluas would only face issues on stuff like CPOs, etc, which is stuff that the NTA and TII have been dealing with for years, and despite the handwringing in the media, those issues aren't a showstopper for any project. They will be able to delay the project, but only once, and worst case scenario would only involve minor changes.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Add to that, an investment in public transport can show results within a year, and major results in a few years. The bypass will not be finished in a decade and could be set back to nought at any time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    I'm sure investments in public transport could show results. I doubt they would make a significant difference to Galway commuters in the near term without the sort of major modifications that would be politically contentious and require following the planning/endless-judicial-reviews pathway (see the recent cycle lane controversy in Dublin for an example of what lies ahead).

    As for bigger projects like the Gluas, it's probably helpful to remember that it took at least 8 years for the first Luas lines to be opened after the process was set in motion, and that was long before the planning laws became as onerous as they are today.

    I'm not sure if we're being realistic about how much public transport can do by itself in the near term.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,228 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The only city in Ireland not to have sufficient infrastructure? Like where do you get this from? Ever been to Dublin? Europe's largest metro-less city and Europe's largest non rail connected airport. Its not a Galway thing, all of Ireland's infrastructure is woeful for political reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    I agree Dublin is bad. But it does have Luas, an M50, supposedly there was supposed to be a Metro to the Airport....There are more Cycle lanes and a Greenway to Athlone now too. It's trying, making an effort.

    Galway is in limbo. A planning decision being deferred, and now others will keep objecting to future developments. There's no clear plan except deferring the road.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭tharlear




    "I'm appalled!

    I just can't believe it, I'm appalled

    it's appalling

    I don't know how else to describe it,

    its appalling"

    etc etc





  • Has an ABP file ever taken this long, with so many additional delays?

    None that I am aware of



  • Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Limerick74




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    12th November the date where this gets delayed again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The main image for that article shows what a ludicrous idea the Galway Bypass plan is. Its an ocean of tarmac, it looks close to 50m wide, then a **** tunnel despite every PT project requiring a tunnel is considered too expensive.

    This should be the first thing dropped from the NDP, put €100m into a new section of road and bridge splitting off the existing N6 west of the N83 and connecting to the N59 (and no further west), another €100m into Galway bus and cycle improvements and you'd still have at least €400m to plug funding gaps elsewhere (particularly Metrolink).



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    While I think that our planning and legal system needs massive reform, one of the things that I've found funny over the last year is the number of people saying that it needs reforming from all sides of the political spectrum. One side saying it needs reforming to reduce the ability to object and make it easier to build houses/offices/projects, while the other is coming from the point of view that it doesn't currently take into account the environment and our emissions as much as it should do.

    I agree that it needs reform, but I'm wary of massive changes being pushed through. Road to hell, good intentions and all that....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    While I am sure that irishcycle.com has no vested interest in whether the bypass is built or not, some of the claims the author makes are a bit much. Saying that Galway is already bypassed because the N6 doesn't go directly through the city centre is like saying that we already have plenty of bus and cycle lanes all over Galway (because buses and bicycles can just travel in car lanes). And suggesting that Galwegians will switch en masse to cycling in the rain or waiting for the bus/Gluas etc to the extent that traffic is significantly reduced (even while the city gets far more inhabitants in the coming decades) seems utopian.

    @Pete_Cavan A lot of the Dublin Metro is going underground. If it's cost-effective to build the tunnel, it will be built. The image shows two lanes of traffic with merge lanes - pretty standard for high-quality roads in Ireland, and nowhere close to 50 m wide on the mainline.

    @CatInABox Reform is coming! Given the incredible political pressure to build more houses as quick and fast as possible, I would expect it to be more in that direction, although I'm sure the Greens will stick their oar in too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    The city is bypassed North-South which is what matters in terms of bypassing Galway city going from any other city/large town to another. There's no major developments out West of the city and not much traffic making that trip.

    If the bus will get you to work in a predictable 15mins and the car takes 30mins to 2hrs, then you'll see lots of people getting the bus.





  • It's next to impossible to see how they can build the GCRR and adhere to their own climate goals




  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Just keep switching to electric cars, I suppose. It's happening right now. In ten years' time the idea that roads = carbon emissions will be obsolete, and in twenty years it will be forgotten.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    I did specify west of the city, not west of the river.

    The housing developments you're talking about are better suited for strong PT transport links than individual car based transport. Higher density living using higher density transport to get to higher density work, shopping, etc. It's just not possible to build enough road space to allow everyone to drive everywhere without congestion. There's a relatively small percentage of people and businesses that live further out that'll realistically always need something like a car due to the remote location, but we don't need to clog up all the road space they need with thousands of people driving a few km to and from work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,177 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Anything about this development in the announcement today?

    The longer this goes on the more I think it'll be shelved.





  • Just that its on the list of active projects. Wouldn't expect more than that to be fair, the NDP wouldn't be the place for a lot of detail on a specific project



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,194 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Most politicians, other than the greens, want this road to happen, so I can't see any political decision to cancel it.


    I can, however, and do, foresee a legal or planning decision that basically cancels it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    A situation like the A5 maybe. Endless delays on spurious environmental grounds so that the road is never delivered. A shame for Galway, but a win for other cities in the country I guess. That funding can be diverted to the M20.



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