M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

cgcsb · 08-12-2021 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289617#Comment_118289617

Yes

cgcsb · 08-12-2021 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289876#Comment_118289876

Again growth doesn't have to equal more car journeys if you invest in sustainable solutions. We see this in Dublins canal cordon count. Year on year decreases in cars and corresponding growth in other modes with no new roads built and population and economic growth.

Pete_Cavan · 08-12-2021 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289484#Comment_118289484

The M50 is also not comparable. The M50 connects multiple National roads and is used by lots of long distance traffic unrelated to the city itself. No M50 would not see this trafficgo through the city, it would use poor roads further out. The M50 is obviously also used by a huge volume commuters which overwhelms the considerable capacity which is there.

The Galway Bypass will see limited national traffic, i.e. using both N6 and N59, certainly not enough to justify the enormous spend. The analysis shows that most of the traffic to use the bypass will be local to the city. The Galway Bypass will only facilitate more commuters and lead to more problems in future, not what you should be spending €600m on.

timmyntc · 08-12-2021 2:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289965#Comment_118289965

Yes but you live in this city and want to travel in the city - its mad that everyone in that situation should drive.

The city is relatively small, if the money was put into transport there could easily be a timely and efficient public transport service serving east & west of the corrib. But because people are still deluded into thinking more roads will solve all their problems, public transport investments are effectively shelved.

KrisW1001 · 08-12-2021 2:36pm

Every city has unique challenges. Galway’s problems have little to do with its geography, and a lot to do with allowing uncontrolled low-density sprawl out from its western edge for decades.

This road is not a bypass. It is an urban distributor. There’s precious little traffic that actually passes Galway: it’s all in and out - exactly the sort of problem that public transport can solve.

I’m in favour of road building. But this is the wrong project. Galway should not repeat Cork’s mistakes: N40 is a dog’s dinner because it was built, just like this project, as a magic-bullet to solve all the city’s traffic issues. It didn’t work in Cork. Why would it work in Galway?

08-12-2021 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290019#Comment_118290019

That sounds great.... but that's not the plan

Pete_Cavan · 08-12-2021 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290019#Comment_118290019

It's funny you talk about "take cars out of city that don’t have to be in city" yet the majority of the journeys you talk about start and finish in the city ("live in west of city and want go work in east" and "live on east side and need go hospital or university"). The fact is that there are very few cars that "don’t have to be in city". If your journey starts and/or ends in the city, then by definition your journey has to be at least partly in the city. The whole take cars out of the city is flawed logic, this road is 90% about getting cars into the city.

And the "greenies" label is meaningless (and no doubt in your mind intended as derogatory). There are plenty of reasons why people oppose this road. For example, its an enormous waste of taxpayers money and all experience shows that it won't solve any problems in the medium to long term. Less money could be spent addressing the actual issues. A new bridge may be needed but that doesn't require 17km of dual carriageway with tunnel and viaduct.

08-12-2021 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290195#Comment_118290195

Why do you assume my motivations have anything to do with the Green party? Your obsession with them is baffling, to say the least.

The projects own documents, submitted to ABP, show this road will not fix traffic problems in Galway. Its literally in black and white.

So I ask you, what is the point of spending all that money to not fix the problem, rather, it will make it worse.

prunudo · 08-12-2021 2:49pm

Plenty of notifications today I see. Even after approval, the road is still as decisive as ever.

timmyntc · 08-12-2021 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290019#Comment_118290019

The reason there is no quality PT is because the of the ring road plan - PT has effectively been put on hold in favour of the ring road as a traffic solution.

Were the ring road to be denied by ABP, public transport options could be prioritised, such as cross city (orbital) bus routes and more bus lanes, including over QCB and out as far as parkmore/galway clinic.

Aontachtoir · 08-12-2021 3:21pm

It is a shame that some of the people who are opposed to this road claim it is supposed to solve all of Galway's traffic problems all by itself, without any investment in PT etc. It is such a clear strawman that it discredits the rest of their proposals.

This road is a key part of a multi-pronged government investment to reduce congestion in Galway. Nothing more, and nothing less. Claiming it is supposed to be a magic bullet is deliberately misleading at best and dishonest at worst.

Panda · 08-12-2021 3:26pm

It would be great to see a easy to use map instead of a clunky old PDF. I'm using a high spec laptop but it's still painfully slow to view.

Does anyone know how to convert the data on that PDF to something that could be uploaded to googles mymaps? It takes kml, gpx and a few other file types...

08-12-2021 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290535#Comment_118290535

There are planned works to improve PT & cycling infrastructure, true, however, even by the council and ARUP's own admission, they will not induce any significant modal. This is due to their limited scope, poor implementation and lack of connectivity.

Now, if you took that 600 mil, built a full network of protected bike lanes and bus lanes for all routes, and include permeability measures everywhere for pedestrians, then yeah, you'd see significant modal shift, which would free up capacity on the road network. That would be a far more sustainable approach.

As it is, this road, if it ever opens, will lead to reduced traffic volumes for a period, sure, maybe 5-10 years if you are lucky, after that you are right back where you started, but now there are estates built way further out where the only option is the car and so you will have locked the city into a car-first approach to future projects.

Its utterly bonkers

timmyntc · 08-12-2021 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290595#Comment_118290595

Galway bus connects is not a PT solution. Its very limited in scope and doesnt address the problems that need addressing. And the reason it doesnt address those problems is because of the proposed ring road

08-12-2021 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290696#Comment_118290696

Exactly this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the planned rollout of BC in Galway, it will definitely improve the current situation, but its literally the bare minimum they are doing so as not to discommode motorists.

Imagine what could be achieved if they had some ambition and the budget for this road, now THATS a Galway that would be amazing for the people living and working there

Aontachtoir · 08-12-2021 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290696#Comment_118290696

Ah now. Claiming BusConnects is not a PT solution is a bit much. If BusConnects isn't PT, it's hard to see what is. And blaming the ring road for your perceived deficits in BusConnects just seems like misdirection, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

KrisW1001 · 08-12-2021 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290535#Comment_118290535

I guess that is referring to my objection. I am simply telling you what has happened in Cork, and I see no reason why Galway would end up any different. When this opens, things will be fine for about 5 years, then it’ll just get clogged up again. If anything, it would be worse, as Galway has a sparse, car-dependent hinterland to its west that will struggle to be served by public transport even without a huge car-magnet being built.

It’s all very well saying that the scheme will be part of a multi-pronged approach to fixing Galway’s problems. But again, Irish governments are very, very bad at investing in infrastructure that has ongoing current expenditure (i.e., public transport). Throwing a ball of money at the problem, building a road and letting people sort themselves out has been the modus operandi of every Irish government, of every composition since the 1980s, and probably earlier. There certainly is a plan for buses in Galway, but it’s at nothing like the scale and level of detail of this project, and is nowhere near being funded. We also have to be aware of political realities. 600M for this road, then another quarter billion for public transport (plus ongoing subvention)? Every other part of the country would be up in arms at that level of spending while important projects in their area get pushed back over and over again. If the road goes ahead (which I still think is only 50/50), the Public Transport work will get shelved because of political pressure not to be seen showering Galway with public cash.

Personally, I would have use the money to build multiple new single-carriageway roads with bus and cycle lanes. A Corrib crossing has always been a red-herring, as so little traffic around Galway actually crosses the river.

However, I appreciate that “What I’d have done” is off-topic on a thread for the M6 City Ring, so I won’t go further than to say I’m disappointed that this is going to continue on its way, thus preventing any chance of getting something better being done.

crushproof · 08-12-2021 5:26pm

Disappointed to see this get the go-ahead, ultimately it's a result of one of the most badly planned cities in Europe. The sprawl of low density estates to the west and then the further construction of endless suburban bungalow bliss out towards Spiddal and along the N59 and beyond is catastrophically poor planning.

The fact that a city with a population of 100,000 requires a bypass that will no doubt cost close to €1 billion (let's not kid ourselves) is a testament to the inept attitude to planning and infrastructure in this country. And I'm certain that Galways Councillors will be quick to zone any land adjacent to junctions for retail and commercial zoning.

CatInABox · 08-12-2021 5:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290535#Comment_118290535

If that's true, then why not include that as a condition of the road? Build the Distributor road, but at the same time, substantially remove cars from the city centre. You'd hear a lot less complaints then.

The thing is, I (and I assume many others) don't believe that once this road is complete, people will be happy to remove cars from the city centre. The same was said of the M50 when it was built, and then again when it was widened. There's been no further pedestrianisation. Bus lanes are clogged with cars. We've been down this road several times, and what you're saying has never been true.

There is no city in the world that has solved it's congestion crisis with more roads. Not one. I can point out example after example of cities that spent an awful lot of money with next to no effect. It's the same as what's going to happen here. Tell us, ten years after this opens, when Galway is as choked with cars as ever, will you support PT along with projects that remove cars from our roads?

cgcsb · 08-12-2021 6:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289965#Comment_118289965

This is an argument in favour of dramatically improving public transport. Not for a ring road.

cgcsb · 08-12-2021 6:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290019#Comment_118290019

So you are arguing for a high frequency public transport route that is not stuck in traffic with cars so basically the current salmon wier bridge and bus connects plan being built anyway and for a small fraction of what the ring road will cost. Buses won't be stuck with cars because cars will be barred from using those streets through the centre.

cgcsb · 08-12-2021 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290535#Comment_118290535

I think the problem stems from the €600mil to be spent on a 'bypass' to deal with 5% of traffic and a small bus connects project, worth...€15-20mil max, to deal with the actual issue, I.e. 95% of intra urban journeys.

Aontachtoir · 08-12-2021 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291501#Comment_118291501

Are you claiming that the Galway Ring Road is intended to solve all of Galway's traffic problems by itself?

I already support PT. It's a key part of any city's transport solutions.

@cgcsb I'm not sure what the point is here. Building infrastructure that will last for decades is more expensive than buying vehicles that will need to be replaced in a few years.

CatInABox · 08-12-2021 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291681#Comment_118291681

Clearly not. It's proponents say that the Ring Road is the necessary first step, I'm saying that the ring road is not necessary for improvements to public and active transport. I'm also saying that the improvements to public transport and active transport will have a much higher positive effect on Galway than the Ring Road, at a much lower cost. I'm also saying that the ring road will not do even the same amount that it's claimed it will do.

Fair enough that you're a supporter of PT, that's great. Once the Ring Road is complete, do you agree with removing the ability of cars to traverse the city centre? Large expansion of pedestrianisation? A wider and higher quality cycle network?

saabsaab · 08-12-2021 7:35pm

RTE news had a person saying that no public buses would use the new bypass. Is that true?

xckjoo · 08-12-2021 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292004#Comment_118292004

Yup

timmyntc · 08-12-2021 7:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290973#Comment_118290973

My bad - poorly worded,

Busconnects is not a solution to galways PT problem is what I meant - of course its PT, but its not the solution to PT in Galway, because its not ambitious enough. The reason its not ambitious enough is because of the assumption that the ring road will provide for the rest.

Buses for some, a dual carriageway from work to home for others.