M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

cgcsb

Sorry but buying replacement buses every 15 years is not going to make bus connects add up to anything remotely similar to the price tag of the ring road, even after a thousand years. And you must think that operating this ring road is free, certainly not; tunnels and mega bridges have massive maintenance and operation bills.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292004#Comment_118292004

Yes, no public bus service will use this road. The M50 opened decades ago and the first Dublin Bus service to use it will be starting in February 2022.

xckjoo

http://www.n6galwaycityringroad.ie/

I think this is all the relevant documentation for anyone interested in actually reading them. Not the easiest to read but worth a browse.

Galway Transport Strategy available here: https://www.galwaycity.ie/galway-transport-strategy

CatInABox

Even with the new route on the M50, there was a fair bit of soul searching on it as well. Running a bus on a motorway defeats the purpose of a bus, in that it's a very long road with no stops to pick up or drop people off.

There'll probably be private buses that'll run on this new road, but no public buses.

kippy

November 2008 is the first post in this thread on this topic. A full 13 years ago and I expect this piece of infrastructure has been mooted long before that. In that time tens of millions have been spent on planning and engineering, as well as 13 years passing. We know approximately 15 million has been spent to this point on the most recent planning application etc - which is about 5 times more than what was initially budgeted for it. I know these types of projects cost money to design and plan before a sod ever gets turned but this is as close to a farce as you can get.

I believe the road is needed - no doubt about that - but it will be at least another 15 years before it is delivered - in a best case scenario. In the meantime the city traffic gets worse. It is not smart to "hang" the cities future on this piece of infrastructure. Far cheaper and more sustainable solutions SHOULD be brough in in the shorter term (5 years) side by side with this infrastructure. Park and Rides, FREE bus transfers into and around town, safer bike paths, more regular COMMUTER trains using existing infrastructure... etc etc

marno21

The whole purpose of this road is to remove traffic from the city streets. This road would remove traffic from the existing N6 and enable it to be reconfigured to have public transport support. Buses would then run on this road. It would make little sense to have buses running on the new road since no one lives on it nor works on it.

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289876#Comment_118289876

Galway is not "expected" to grow by 50%.

While The Regional Spacial & Economic Strategy "plans" to grow the city that is a long way off and contingent on many factors, including roads, public transport & housing.

spacetweek

There is no reason at all why public buses would run on this road as bus stops on the mainline won't be allowed and even if they were it would be an unpleasant experience. Plus it's a bypass so it would avoid anywhere people wanted to go.

It isn't necessarily "bad planning" when the gov builds roads and lets people sort out their own transport, that's called "laissez faire". The opposite, where the gov provide the transport themselves, is "statist". Ireland is not and has never been a statist country. Laissez faire is how things are done here, like it or not. (It's also the reason we don't have much apartment living or nationalised health care.)

Nonetheless I do think Galway has a suburban sprawl problem and 600 million is a very high price tag for what this will deliver.

Its achievements will be modest: it will enable east Galway-Connemara trips to be made easily, and will enable bus lanes to be added to some (not all due to narrow width) city distributors, in particular the QCB which of course could not have bus lanes without the building of a second Corrib crossing.

Its disadvantages: Those narrow distributors would still require widening and demolition to enable bike and bus lanes to be added, which would face a lot of opposition. The bypass would only serve the car mode, providing nothing for active travel. It would enable further suburban sprawl. In the short to medium term it would increase emissions. Trips from the east to Connemara are quite a small part of the market. And it's really expensive.

Green Peter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293290#Comment_118293290

Sure what do we care about anyone out west travelling into the city. It's just a playground for the dubs when they go on holidays and they can live with being stuck in traffic a few times a year! Typical An Taise and Green party thinking.

Larbre34

So much slurry being spread about their being a public transport alternative to the City bypass.

Like it or not, Galway is a destination located in the heart of a region of many destinations. Tourism, foreign and domestic, will rely on private vehicles of various sorts for decades to come. So will commercial traffic. This allows extraneous traffic to skip getting involved in local movements and give the City some real options for improved public realm and active travel as well. If Galway is to grow considerably within its current footprint, it was always going to be needed.

Hope they get on with quickly and begin making it work for the people of Galway and the west.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292844#Comment_118292844

The whole purpose of this road is to remove traffic from the city streets.

Nope its not. Its a distributor road that will have zero affect on the traffic in the city streets

This road would remove traffic from the existing N6 and enable it to be reconfigured to have public transport support.

That would be pretty pointless given almost nobody lives on the N6. It's why there are no routes using it and no plans for future routes to use it

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293673#Comment_118293673

Of course it will have a significant effect on removing traffic from the City streets. Any extraneous traffic that wants to route onto the N83, N84, N59 or R336 currently has to meander around the non-freeflow inner ring, mixing and conflicting with local journeys. The bypass removes this significant cohort.

Any attempt to argue otherwise is simply churlish.

This project may still fail to get funding due to the very real climate concerns associated with it

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/126268/momentous-appalling-galway-divided-over-ring-road-planning-permission

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118293728#Comment_118293728

Have you read any of the engineering reports that's show the majority of the traffic starts and ends within the city and that building this ring road will cause a near negligible effect on traffic levels?

KrisW1001

@spacetweek Not to pick on you specifically - you’re just the latest to misname this scheme, but:

This is not a bypass. It’s a ring-road; an urban distributor. Given where Galway sits in the country, it’s not even a 2-in-1 distributor-plus-bypass road like Cork’s N40. In the context of the national road network, there’s nothing immediately west of Galway that requires a national primary or secondary route. The need to get past Galway quickly is nothing like the need to get around Limerick, Cork, Waterford or Dublin which all have nationally significant destinations on the other sides of them. The vast majority of traffic on M6 westbound is terminating in Galway city - there’s almost no “through” traffic.

A true bypass of Galway would extend the route of R381 (currently runs from Oranmore, meets M6, continues to N83) to meet N84 and thus provide better access to Mayo from the South and East, because those are the only nationally-significant destinations that you would need to get close to Galway on your way to. A smaller-scale project to join N59 and N84 would also assist the small number of people heading from East Galway into Connemara, but again, further out to keep traffic down.

This road is built far too close to the city to make it a shorter route for traffic passing Galway: it is not, and never was, a bypass.

___

On another note, now that permission has been granted, it’s time for the politicians arguing “but this is just part of a broader transport improvement” to put their money where their mouth is. They should invest in the public transport now as if the new road is definitely going to be built. Waiting until there’s a ribbon to cut will be a waste of time. It takes years to build up public confidence that a proper bus network is a reliable option, and cheaper than driving - they should start now. Otherwise, within 5 years, the new M6 will just be another road that people outside Galway will know by heart from AA Roadwatch bulletins..

citycentre

Some who are vehemently opposed to this project seem to have limited experience of actually living in Galway and the reality of it's awkward geography and convoluted existing road network. Notions of building a 'GLUAS' (where there isn't even enough space for buses) or simply closing down the city to cars as being in any way realistic are unfortunately just laughably naive.

Of course there will be a negligible effect on overall traffic levels - Galway is currently completely choked because there is no proper road infrastructure in place to absorb the existing traffic levels never mind any increased demand. To me it's an obvious either / or situation. Either don't build the new road meaning that creating proper public transport / cycling infrastructure on the existing road network is impossible, meaning that a proper alternative to driving everywhere doesn't exist meaning that Galway continues to die on its feet, paralysed by traffic congestion. Or build the new road meaning that traffic does not need to go right through the city centre, meaning reliable public transport corridors can be created on the existing road network (particularly at the QC and Salmon Weir bridges), meaning more people using public transport and less driving to commute from one side of the city to the other.

The existing city centre roads should become local access / PT only with the QC bridge having one lane each way open to cars and HGVs for a toll / congestion charge. Whatever can be done should be done to discourage cross city traffic on the old network to further encourage the use of public transport / walking / cycling in the city core. If the choice to get from home in Knocknacarra to work in Parkmore and back (one of the key drivers of the current congestion) ends up being between driving the circuitous route along the new ring road, paying a toll each way or hopping on a 'glider' style bus along a direct and frequent quality bus corridor I know what most people would choose.

The problem is we cannot have that quality bus corridor and a reduced traffic city centre until there is a proper alternative route for vehicular traffic to be distributed around the city. The key is that the new ring road has to be just part of a much bigger picture. I fully agree that to just build the road and expect that to be the solution to everything would only make things worse. However without the road I honesty cannot see how a workable solution can be found..

Thelonious Monk

Morning peak traffic movement in Galway according to N6 Route Selection Executive Report:

- 97% of trips begin, end, or do both inside the city

- 3% of of trips bypass the city

so yeah it will probably do f*ck all for the clusterf*ck that is traffic in Galway city, in fact it will probably just make it all worse over time.

I think this will be dragged through the courts for a long time, so it's probably 20 years off if it ever even happens, and meanwhile they aren't going to try and improve public transport or anything else, so this announcement is probably just going to make everything worse really.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118294583#Comment_118294583

this announcement is probably just going to make everything worse really

Exactly this. The best outcome for Galway would have been a rejection.

The GTS is up for review next year. A rejection would have seen a massive restructuring of it, now it'll just be a crap bandaid like the current one because the funding and focus will all be on the new road.

This decision has ensured Galway will be a crap place to live for the next 50 years

My guess is there is going to be at least 3 if not 4,challenges to this approval

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40761756.html

CruelSummer

Lot of toys being thrown out of prams here. Same people that will hold it up in the courts, affecting quality of life in the City and hindering its development overall. Seems to be a group of people in Galway who are opposed to any development of the area and moving it forward.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118295752#Comment_118295752

How exactly will this road improve the quality of life for the people of the city?

Will it have an overall positive impact on commuting times (into the city)?

Will it slow down the urban sprawl?

Will it make it easier for those not using a car to commute?

Why the road will never be built

https://irishcycle.com/2021/12/09/heres-why-the-galway-ring-road-will-never-be-built/

This was illuminating too, note, this was only a few years after the current bypass was opened

Cookiemunster

I find it amusing that the people who were adamant that this would never get planning permission are now adamant that it will never get built.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296452#Comment_118296452

Galway doesn’t have a bypass. If it did there wouldn’t be a need for another one.

Limerick, Dublin, Cork (south) and Waterford have bypasses. I don’t see anyone clamouring for second bypasses outside those ones.

Galway has a bridge tacked onto the Headford Road and an at grade relief route from there to the M6. This route turns at 90 degrees twice in tight junctions hemmed in by shopping centres. It’s very very far from a bypass and it doesn’t function remotely as one.

Larbre34

Bet anyone a fiver that the build starts well before the 2025 election.

Cian Ginty is just a polemicist. If his arguments didn't pass muster in the planning approval phase, they certainly won't now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296701#Comment_118296701

Bet anyone a fiver that the build starts well before the 2025 election.

I'll take that bet

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118296595#Comment_118296595

Limerick, Dublin, Cork and Waterford all have major areas of population or other strategic destinations beyond them. That is why they have bypasses - many drivers approaching those cities are not going to them, but rather going past them to another destination. You cannot go from Killarney to Rosslare without needing to pass either Cork or Waterford or both. On the other hand, there’s no major population centre you need to go west of Galway to reach except Galway itself.

The traffic numbers to back this up are there to see from the initial plans. With only around 3% of vehicles crossing the Corrib, despite Galway being the only available crossing, nobody is trying to get across

Calling this road a bypass is just incorrect. Not even the scheme itself is described as such. It is a Ring Road, a way of allowing traffic to move quickly from one section of a city to another. It’s the same old N40/M50 style collector-distributor pattern that has failed in the past.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297146#Comment_118297146

How much traffic on the South Link is bypassing Cork completely, as you describe? I'd be surprised if it's much higher than 3%.

It doesn't matter what's way out west beyond Galway. If we're talking about making serious vehicle capacity reductions in Galway city centre in favour of buses, bikes, and the Gluas, there has to be an alternative route available to take the vehicles no longer allowed or able to travel through the city to go around to their destination.

It seems odd to say that roads are failures because they reach their design capacity. That's like saying a housing development was a failure because all the houses in it were bought and there are more people living there than when the site was an undeveloped field. Do full buses or trains mean public transport is a failure?

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297368#Comment_118297368

there has to be an alternative route available to take the vehicles no longer allowed or able to travel through the city to go around to their destination."

Why does there have to be an alternative route?

If proper Public Transport was funded wouldn't that be the alternative and therefore vehicular traffic can use a less crowded existing network.

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118297368#Comment_118297368

U would be very surprised by the traffic that uses the n40 to bypass Cork