M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744962#Comment_119744962

In the real world the GCRR has died in the courts..... again 😊

Imeacht gan teacht ort

Cycling or walking to work 4 miles away on the other side of the city doesn't seem very appealing to me in the middle of winter, and the buses aren't much use when they're stuck in the traffic.

We could use the trains, except they are all gone decades ago in Galway.

I honestly think the ring road needs built first before anything else can be done, otherwise the chaos on the roads of Galway will just get worse.

That's just my opinion.

Larbre34

And you'd be right.

If the GCRR is endlessly obstructed, Galway gets none of the sustainable projects.

Quid pro quo. For many prudent reasons.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744962#Comment_119744962

Woukd these be the same decision makers who you prophesied would abort the Fairview works?

Supporters of the GCRR say its needed before anything can be done to sort out buses, cycling etc yet even the lacklustre GTS shows that's not true. Indeed there is no such evidence that anything beyond the GTS will be done once the GCRR would open, it's a case of "just trust us".

Indeed if it were the case then there would be a long list of places that would be good examples of where a bypass/ring road was used to bring about these sorts of changes.

Yet there is not one single example (that I'm aware of) where this is the case. Off the top of my head, Oranmore, Athlone, Tuam, etc. None saw improvements to PT or active travel directly resulting from the construction of ring roads/bypasses.

Would love to be proven wrong on this.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744984#Comment_119744984

I used to think the same about the ring road. "Build it and then they'll be able to fix the PT, etc". But reading the reports and plans released by the Council over the years made me realise they won't. What we're seeing now is what they've planned; a fairly anemic Bus Connect that they're also calling cycling lanes. It'll probably be very useful for me personally but that doesn't help the thousands of others.

The ring road is just a continuation of outdated transport infrastructure planning that's been shown to make things worse. If I thought it would help I'd be for it.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119745044#Comment_119745044

You don't need to be proven wrong, it's just whats going to happen.

Green Peter

Niall O Brolachan got his answer from the electorate before and so will the current bunch of elected greens in Galway. Roll on the elections. Time find a small uninhabited island of the west coast for them and give them a few goats and a flint.

brianc89

We seriously need one example, anywhere on the planet, where they have built public transport before a bypass or distributor road.

This can prove / disprove the broader argument here.

The argument that the Naas / Athlone bypasses didn't lead to PT improvements is not a relevant argument here. They didn't build PT here because it simply wasn't the style at the time. It doesn't prove / disprove if combined bypass / public transport is / isn't the solution for Galway.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744660#Comment_119744660

You are dreaming mate, as Galway LA's are some of the most pro car reps in the country. They can't even build a cycleway in Salthill and have the worst record of introducing sustainable Public Transport in the country, and that is saying something.

So for those proclaiming this as a victory, where in years to come Galway will have a Utopian European transport system, dream on, because the same NIMBY methods and procedures used to scupper this plan, will be used to scupper Galway BusConnects or whatever it will call itself.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744691#Comment_119744691

It's clear that there are arms of the state completely at odds with each other in trying to achieve what it has legislatively set out.

We have a Climate Action Plan of sorts committed to reducing carbon emissions, yet we also have plans to build x number of new homes per year.

Guess what conflicts with what?

As part of the Climate Action Plan, Irelands needs to reduce its emissions from construction-led activity, which means in effect, a cap on the number of new homes we can build.

The state is utterly broken in trying to fix these bigger issues, as we have wrapped ourselves up with targets, legislation and feel-good papers, yet its average citizen feels hard done by and let down by utter incompetence and pathetic red tape.

Bobeagleburger

Beginning of the end for this project imo.

It's a shame as it's needed badly.

Now, it's probably dead in the water.

Bobeagleburger

I'd love if this meant they'd get alternataive proposals moving. However, they won't as it'll be held up in the same way this was.

plodder

Apparently, the plan was approved by ABP only "days after" the climate plan was published. They should have been aware this was coming if that really was a legal requirement to be considered.

Though, I don't see how a ring road is necessarily contrary to a climate plan. Take a look at the best European cities that have great cycling and public transport facilities (like Copenhagen and Amsterdam). They have ring roads as well.

spacetweek

It will probably take a change of government but road building goes in and out of vogue. In the UK it was seriously out of vogue in the 90s and 00s, then it was back.

I never supported a motorway-standard bypass for a city the size of Galway which doesn't connect important routes (no, the N59 and N84 are not important.) The most that's needed is a single carriageway road for the small amount of traffic trying to get to and from Connemara, but it should be much further out to avoid spurring suburban sprawl. They could use Parkmore Road as a starting point.

Then get busy with BusConnects with bus lane provision on all distributors including ridiculous oversights like building Western Distributor Road through Knocknacarra without bus lanes despite it being a fairly recent build.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744962#Comment_119744962

The real world isn’t as clear cut as you make it out to be. If it was, your claims about the impending end of the restrictions in Fairview in Dublin would have happened by now.

Politics is the art of managing conflicting requirements. There is no Real World, there is no one group of decision makers, that’s just a fallacy designed to let people they are on the side of might.

rustyfrog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744984#Comment_119744984

Fixing public transport is a quicker, cheaper and more future-proof option than building this ring road.

The current bus service is very poor, especially routes serviced by City Direct. We need lots more buses so we've a frequent service and can drop unreliable timetables. We need bus corridors across the city, it needs to be the faster option. We might need to make some roads one-way for private cars to facilitate this. Get it done.

Park & Ride from the outskirts for people commuting into the city.

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746616#Comment_119746616

On what roads and spaces do these bus lanes inhabit? All available road space is currently maxed out, they’ll never be able to put in bus and cycling lanes without a proper ring road around the city.

rustyfrog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746653#Comment_119746653

Along the WDR there appears to be space left for adding bus lanes in both directions. On the older city streets, where there's 2 lanes of traffic then one should be dedicated to public transport. That means 1 way systems on some city streets.

These problems would need to be solved with brave solutions regardless of whether or not this road is built, as 97% of the traffic wants to travel within the city.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746616#Comment_119746616

Thats not going to be accepted by people.

There have been Quality Bus Corridors in Dublin for 25 years or so now. They've been pretty successful in providing good capacity on some routes.

But they are slow. Glacially slow. And as you can see they've been overtaken by traffic volumes anyway.

Without the Galway Ring Road, such improvements won't be any more efficient. You can't put freight on a bus either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746653#Comment_119746653

The cross city link, as bad as it is, shows that is not the case.

All that is required is decision to prioritise sustainable and efficient modes ahead of the private car as its the least efficient by a country mile

Seth Brundle

There have been Quality Bus Corridors in Dublin for 25 years or so now. They've been pretty successful in providing good capacity on some routes.

Which ones haven't been successful?

But they are slow. Glacially slow. And as you can see they've been overtaken by traffic volumes anyway.

Why are they glacially slow? Might it be because some drivers hold up the busses?

Without the Galway Ring Road, such improvements won't be any more efficient. You can't put freight on a bus either.

I don't think anyone has suggested putting freight on a bus, but you knew that. What people have suggested is that quick efficient wins can be made with minimum cost by providing efficient alternatives for people in and around the city through public transport improvements. If you don't, then they will continue to drive, which costs everyone more.

Once you have an efficient public transport network that gives people a viable choice for travel, then look at any need for new roads. In the case of Galway, they are putting the cart before the horse and are destined to fail and it's bizarre that some cannot (or refuse not to) see that.

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746694#Comment_119746694

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746705#Comment_119746705

I disagree and I’ve seen these points argued over and back repeatedly on this thread. Firstly the cross City link and other modes of public transport would flow much better if more traffic were taken off these inner roads. Posters listing ‘brave’ solutions are effectively calling for the existing limited road space to be dug up and used exclusively for buses and bikes. It’s so obvious to anyone living in reality that this would never work, people need access to their business, customers to come, emergency services need road space, and a multitude of other reasons I just couldn’t be bothered getting into here. In truth I thought the original plan where the road ran further out should never have been opposed due to some bog issue or something. Travelling through Limerick tunnel is a timely reminder what could have been for Galway.

rustyfrog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746704#Comment_119746704

20mins by bus over 60mins sitting in congested traffic watching buses sail past every 10 minutes is going to be acceptable by people.

I'm talking about solving the bulk of the problem - commuter and school traffic. People that aren't tied to using a private car for their commute, they just want the most convenient way of getting around. There will still be roads for private and business use.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746760#Comment_119746760

I'm not sure you understand what the cross city link is

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746704#Comment_119746704

The only bus corridors in Dublin that are slow are the ones that are non continuous or chockoblock with cars driving in them illegally. Look at the malahide road and stillorgan road qbcs, they're almost continuous and deliver good journey times. Blanchardstown is slow because only half of it has a bus lane.

at1withmyself

I can't say I'm surprised by the news of more delays but for anyone pushing that a ring road is needed before changes to public transport I just don't understand the argument as the road is probably 10 years away.

Work needs to happen now to improve the life's of the people living and working in the city. I have been cycling since my school days but fully acknowledge its not for everyone so bus lanes and bus routes should be a priority.

Other items;

- better enforcement of red-light jumping at key junctions as they are preventing other lanes moving and just adding to the queues

- recess the bus stops like at the end of the seamus quirke road so traffic can keep moving and not preventing cats getting through. Plenty of others across the city.

- add one way systems to reduce the need for lights, example being dunnes in westside, could the seamus quirk exit be removed and cars rejoin elsewhere

- junction improvements for traffic light timings

- fly overs, the tuam Road being an ideal candidate where it crosses bother na dreabh maybe?

- reduce price of bus fare

- automatic green man at pedestrian crossing when road traffic is red, prime candidate being the big junction outside galway shopping centre. Why people have to wait to cross at junctions where cars are held under red is beyond stupid

These of course need to be assessed and loads of other possible interim solutions they could look at to improve things in Galway but waiting another 10 years is not one of them. As said some items could be done quickly and trialed but doing nothing isn't going to help anyone.

There is stuff happening like removal of roundabouts but it needs to happen quicker

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746653#Comment_119746653

Where do you think the bus lanes in Dublin and Belfast came from? By and large, they were existing lanes that were reassigned to carry more people.

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747587#Comment_119747587

I think bus lanes came from the fact that Dublin built an M50, and plenty of other link roads around and through it - therefore allowing certain areas to designate bus and bike lanes. However Dublin City is woefully bad at developing its public transport infrastructure, it has improved and is improving but still a long way to go for a capital city.

Sam Russell

Quote: There is stuff happening like removal of roundabouts but it needs to happen quicker

Remember, those roundabouts were put recently - like a few decades ago - while the Galway Bypass was being planned. Galway is full of relief roads and roundabouts named after the Tribes, all designed to relieve the transit of cars through the congestion caused by those roundabouts and relief roads.

Bus lanes were put on the road through Renmore, but they forgot to put bus routes on it. Many the time I have sat in the traffic jam on that road not moving with not a bus passing in the bus lane.

The Galway Ring Road needs to be put on the back burner while they solve the traffic in the City centre.

Free public transport would be a starter as it would cost next to nothing as they have next to no public transport to suffer from the lack of revenue.

A Luas service from the P&R near Clairegalway to the City Centre, with another line running from Knocknacarra to near the Coollagh Roundabout along the N6/Botha na d'Treabh. P&R to be provided at the Luas terminus near the Coolagh end, with perhaps one near the Knocknacarra end. Whatever those lines would cost will be small beer compared to the GCRR. 20Km of Luas would be the maximum required.

Also, convert the half a dozen junctions on the N6 from Coolagh to Newcastle to be free flow with a new bridge over the Corrib, the the existing Quincentennial Bridge for buses, pedestrians, and cycles.