M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Idbatterim

I totally get the concept of induced demand. But when the existing town, has no ring road. Its a bit of a red herring. Wanting to expand an adequate road from 2 lanes to 3 or 4 in each direction and spending a fortune, would be a bad idea, when the city public transport is a shambles. Should we get rid of the M50 in Dublin? would that improve life for Dubliners?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747772#Comment_119747772

Next to no public transport? You don't know what you're talking about.

rustyfrog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747753#Comment_119747753

They were to prioritise public transport in the city centre when the previous ring road was built, that never happened. Buses are still stuck in city centre traffic, making their schedule across the city unreliable.

micar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119744984#Comment_119744984

You'd cycle 4 miles in about 15 mins. The level of traffic doesn't effect this......chuckle to yourself as you go past all the cars stuck in traffic....most which are single occupied

With a 30 min round trip......you'd be surprised how few times you'd have bad weather.

Its all about being prepared and having the right clothing and equipment.

It's surprises me how many people have your view but when you actually get cycling.....you'll be surprised...and come to the conclusion.....why haven't I been doing this for years.

Idbatterim

They might effect peoples behavior on short trips, with a toll. I think there should be one for entering the canals in Dublin. Even if its was a euro or so, it would probably stop many lazy trips being made, that could be walked, cycled or public transport..

the problem is, once you pay for the car, motor tax and insurance, people will use them relentlessly , even for ridiculous short trips...

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747753#Comment_119747753

This is untrue. When the bus lanes were introduced, both the M50 and the city/urban roads were congested.

There is never a time when a city can say that they’ve built enough roads and now there’s space for public transport. That’s just not how roads work. If the GCOB is built in isolation, both the new and existing roads will be congested and there still won’t be space for public transport.

Idbatterim

They talk about reducing car usage and at the same time, new cars pay as good as no motor tax. The whole things is just for optics, a total shambles!

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748019#Comment_119748019

I never said to build the ring road in isolation, I don’t support that. And I’m not interested in debating with certain groups on this thread who are just interested in arguments for the sake of them.

Anywhere there’s space for public transport now - go for it. In fact I’ve previously stated I cannot understand how more hasn’t been done with the Oranmore area. There is good road infrastructure all around it, train connections to the city and regular buses. Inner roads, village centres, etc should all be used for cycle lanes and pedestrians in areas such as those.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746705#Comment_119746705

All that is required is decision to prioritise sustainable and efficient modes ahead of the private car as its the least efficient by a country mile

How on gods earth can one get that over the line when one cannot even build a simple cycle lane in Salthill?

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119747901#Comment_119747901

There are 15 bus routes with frequencies from 10 min (1 route) to three times a day, most are 20 min (4) or 30 min (7). Then hourly ( 1 ) and three times a day. Most are around the houses. One route is a non-stop staff only shuttle for Regional to Merlin Park. I have no idea whether a real time info is available, or how reliable the timetable is. I know in Switzerland, not only do the trains run on time (to the minute) but so do the rural buses.

Hardly comprehensive a comprehensive service. Most services are An Lar, so not much good to go from one side of the city to the other. Nothing from Claregalway, Athenry, Clarenbridge, Moycullen, or Furbo. They are all out the road.

Anything less frequent that 10 mins needs a look at real time information.

As for three times a day - well, forget it.

Some of those routes are through runs from regional services.

It is not a service that would entice me off by bike or out of my car - even if it were free.

Green Peter

I think what the greens really want is a time machine to go back to just after the salmon weir bridge was built, actually maybe not as that might be a bypass.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749120#Comment_119749120

I love how climate change deniers assume the opposite to ‘don’t build all the roads’ could only be ‘stoneage’.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119748472#Comment_119748472

Like I said, you don't know what you're talking about.

401, 402, 404 and 405 are cross city services. Yes they go "round the houses" - but that's because people who live in houses are the most likely ones to be catching buses! Sending services along dual carriageways might make Eyre Square to the final destination faster but would be no good to people going to places along the way (eg ATU/GMIT is a big destination for bus-users)

 Nothing from Claregalway, Athenry, Clarenbridge, Moycullen, or Furbo. They are all out the road.

Yeah, right.

Claregalway has multiple Bus Éireann buses stopping, as well as Burkes Tuam and N63 / Bolyes Roscommon buses stopping there.

Athenry has Farrells running 7 buses per day in each direction - and some services from Irish Rail. They also have the only NiteLink in the entire county.

Furbo has 13 route 424's Mon-Fri, 12 on Sat and 6 on Sunday.

Clarenbridge has route 51 which is hourly, 7am to 8pm.

I agree that Moycullen is weirdly under-served given it's size and closeness: it only has 7 Bus Éireann 419s, and 5 Citylink each day. Someone (City Direct?) did try to run a dedicated Moycullen service a few years back, but it failed very quickly, not sure why.

It's far from perfect, but it's certainly not non-existent. Whether it's enough to entice people out of their cars really comes down to how well they have matched their employment with their accommodation. So far the government has been unwilling to use incentives on that front, but really it would be the best way to reduce demand for roads.

Green Peter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119749541#Comment_119749541

I love how environmentalists, build their own houses and park their cars outside and then immediately set about stopping anyone else from doing so.

kippy

Living in Galway almost twenty years at this stage and this project has been going on that long and longer.

There is absolutely no point in revisiting s ring road. Tens of millions have gotten us nowhere and there will always be a lobby group or group of objectors that will go all the way to stop it. With a project of this size and complexity unless the entire process is completely water tight some legal or procedural anomaly with the documentation or process will alway be found by a group with the motivation to delay or ultimately stop it.

Plans for housing on top of existing houses in towns and villages just outside the city as well as significantly development in the city are going to add significantly to the traffic problems the city has.

The city has shown itself to be totally incompetent when it comes to planning public travel and cycle infrastructure with the Salthill cycle way being the latest.

It's obvious to me that things are not going to improve in the place for decades. If you can accept that and find a way for yourself to tolerate it or make things better for you, great. If not it's probably time to look at alternative life and work arrangements.

Sam Russell

@Mrs OBumble

Quote: It's far from perfect, but it's certainly not non-existent. Whether it's enough to entice people out of their cars really comes down to how well they have matched their employment with their accommodation. So far the government has been unwilling to use incentives on that front, but really it would be the best way to reduce demand for roads.

I did suggest that the public transport be made free of charge in m earlier post. That would be incentive enough for many if the service was designed to be frequent and reliable. To give it extra push, bus lanes that were policed would speed the buses to make them faster that a car at peak times so a bigger incentive.

A further incentive would be to provide P&R sites at useful places for the rural commuter, plus a Luas from out the road on the N17 into the city centre, plus one from east to west of the city, probably along the N6.

Now, all of these would cost a lot less than the price that the GCRR would cost, and could be provided without the helpful Bord Pleanala giving its spake on the plans.

KrisW1001

I think that's getting closer to the real problem. A lack of ability and backbone in Galway Council. The N6 was over-built because they planners couldn't say no to vested interests who insisted on a junction every couple of kilometres. The cost was inflated because they caved to the racecourse owners. Public transport has stalled because they're using N6 as a shield, to avoid having to make difficult decisions - I think they know that even if planned, N6 won't be built for another decade, and that's the can kicked down the road long enough to find another reason not to upset anyone.

I don't think they want more buses, or cycleways, and that's the big problem. Bizarrely, M6 is the cheap option: it's a one-off capitial spend, the government pays most of it, and then the council doesn't have to do anything afterward. Bus lanes, cycleways, P&R parks - these are all things that come under a council budget...

I'm not anti-car (I have a car) or pro-cyclist (I have never owned a bike), just anti waste. Road space in any city is precious. I said above that I think Galway needs new roads to fix its problems, but it doesn't need this road. This road will make things worse.

rustyfrog

https://twitter.com/thomasbibby/status/1581569643726049280?t=s5XLj8VpBuaStzza8l9dNA&s=19

. .

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119746704#Comment_119746704

You were spouting absolute bullsh*t about Fairview. You said the real working man people economy etc. wouldn't tolerate it and the works would be removed by September. You were talking like you were in the know as usual.

You keep avoiding this when people bring it up. You were 100% wrong about that no? And you're talking bollocks here again like you're some authority on these things. You're a total spoofer.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119750889#Comment_119750889

Both Public Transport and Active Travel have been ignored for decades in preference for road infrastructure - in Ireland and on every corner of the planet.

With the climate change penny FINALLY landing, there is now a need and appetite to invest in PT / AT.

Examples from 15years ago, such as the Limerick tunnel, are NOT PROOF that building the GCRR will result in other modes being ignored. You simply need the appetite - which there now is, both politically and socially.

Build this damn road already (minus one or 2 junctions) and also invest in PT!!!

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754194#Comment_119754194

If there was a plan to do anything with PT/AT inside the next decade, there is a better chance that this road could have been built. Instead we’re getting the same ‘one more road and then….’ ideology.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754194#Comment_119754194

If this road won't result in the other modes being ignored, then why aren't those modes part of this proposal?

I don't like the entire concept of this ring road, but if they put it through as one project, with all the bus lanes and cycle tracks, pedestrianisation of inner city roads, and other active and public transport improvements included, then I'd hold my nose and support it. I'd say a fair amount of people who are currently against it would do the same.

In fact, with the plan as is already admitting that it's going to raise emissions by a fair amount, I'd say that's the only way that it's got a hope of going through planning from now on

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754710#Comment_119754710

Yeah that's fair.

On one side, if this road is built, it will be much easier to reallocate road space. It feels like a crucial missing piece of the puzzle. If we invest in PT without this piece of the puzzle, this money might be "wasted" as it will be need to be redone again "properly" once the road is there.

On the other hand, this strategy has clearly failed time and time again to provide PT.

Maybe the proposed Bus Connects is not given enough credit????

rustyfrog

Exactly as others have said - if there's a promise that public transport and active travel will be overhauled then make it part of the same proposal. At the moment there's no detail and we've seen that promise broken over and over.

The new road would likely see a short term relief of congestion for a few years, that'll take the political pressure off reallocation of road space within the city. When the congestion has returned they'll be unwilling to reduce road capacity for cars, like today.

The local politicians couldn't even hold position to remove a few parking spots to test a temporary cycleway in Salthill for a few months. They scrapped that plan and also didn't follow up with promises to come back with a revised version.

After years of asking they're finally putting in a basic pedestrian crossing at Blackrock in Salthill. It's set to take 10 weeks to install. 10 weeks! A pedestrian crossing.

Let us see the ambition and details for their promised changes to the "freed up" city streets and make it part of the same project.

Seth Brundle

On one side, if this road is built, it will be much easier to reallocate road space.

How? With a big new dual carriageway, all you will do is encourage more people into cars. This isn't opinion: this is a known demonstratable fact.

It feels like a crucial missing piece of the puzzle. If we invest in PT without this piece of the puzzle, this money might be "wasted" as it will be need to be redone again "properly" once the road is there.

If the two Galway councils had any interest in encouraging PT and AT then they would be doing it already. Would you describe Galway's public transport network as any way efficient and, if not, why? Would you describe Galway's cycling network as any way efficient and, if not, why?

On the other hand, this strategy has clearly failed time and time again to provide PT.

Any strategy to move the public that favours private car transport over public transport will always fail. Galway are simply repeating the mistakes that they and others made in the past. However, does the country have we €1Bn-€1.5Bn to spend on a road that won't do anything improve Galway's transport problems?

Maybe the proposed Bus Connects is not given enough credit????

The Bus Connects plan for Galway is only at initial stages and is already doomed. IrishCycle.com did an analysis and pretty much condemned it: https://irishcycle.com/2022/09/13/galway-cross-city-bus-link-reduces-traffic-on-some-streets-but-goes-as-far-as-knocking-houses-to-increase-capacity-to-car-parks/

brianc89

It is admirable, but totally unreasonable, to expect that 100% of cross-city and cross-county car journeys will be made on one bridge. Like it or not, Galway is plagued by urban sprawl and the car will always be a part of transport here.

It simply WILL NOT be accepted that road space is reallocated from the city onto one bridge.

The world is moving away from total car dependence, but with the greatest respect to Galway and it's residents, does anyone here really believe that Galway is going to break the wheel? Another few decades will pass while we wait....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755379#Comment_119755379

Umm, you seem to be ignoring the physical realm with your assumptions and sketches

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755432#Comment_119755432

Can you elaborate? Is it not the broad assumption with PT that the 3 inner city bridges are reallocated to buses / trams and cyclists?

xckjoo

AFAIK it's only the Salmon Weir that's being closed to private cars and that's only during the day. Where have you seen plans for the other bridges?

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755747#Comment_119755747

So the vision for Galway city moving from car dependence to public transport maintains the docks as a cross city and cross county route? How very short sighted.

The only way to move Galway away from true car city is to eliminate the 3 inner city bridges as cross city and cross county routes. Anyone who believes people will swap their car for the bus when they can drive into, and across, the inner city will be very disappointed.