M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Schadenfreudia

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I am fully in favour of increased taxes on car usage. Additional charges that would take proper account of currently unpaid externalities include road pricing, proper fees for parking and carbon taxes. These charges should be set at a rate that achieves the necessary effect in terms of a reduction in car use and a decrease in traffic congestion. Alone or in combination, and as part of a suite of Demand Management measures, such economic interventions would be a sustainable alternative to more road building, such as the "bypass" proposed for Galway.

You should stand for election on that platform! Set up a new party!

I can see you don't like democracy very much - they are all out of step except poor Johnny and his pals:rolleyes:

I might be persuaded to accept that, if presented with good evidence.

The sad thing about being an extremist in a tiny minority is that it really doesn't matter what you can be "persuaded to accept" :cool:

SeanW

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I pay Motor Tax, and I am fully in favour of increased taxes on car usage.

Ireland is already a world leader in taxing motorists. VRT (Vehicle Registration Tax, required to put a car on the road for the first time) only exists elsewhere in Denmark, and road tax in Ireland is 2-5 times it's UK equivalent. Other countries like France have no road taxes and some other European countries only charge periodic rates for using their motorway systems.

If screwing motorists was the solution, Ireland would not have a traffic problem. If taxing motorists encouraged people to use alternatives, Ireland would the most alternative-dependent country in Europe or at least high on the list.

If not building roads was the solution because it prevented "induced demand" then Kampala (capital of Uganda) would be a car-free utopia. It's not.

Additional charges that would take proper account of currently unpaid externalities include road pricing, proper fees for parking and carbon taxes. These charges should be set at a rate that achieves the necessary effect in terms of a reduction in car use and a decrease in traffic congestion. Alone or in combination, and as part of a suite of Demand Management measures,

Again, would these be in addition to, or replacing elements of, our already obscene levels of motorist taxation?

such economic interventions would be a sustainable alternative to more road building, such as the "bypass" proposed for Galway.

How would this help me get to Clifden or Connemara from points East?

youngrun

Legal action planned

http://connachttribune.ie/legal-challenge-against-bypass-plan-223/

Schadenfreudia

youngrun wrote: »

Legal action planned

http://connachttribune.ie/legal-challenge-against-bypass-plan-223/

Now there's a surprise development! Let's hope that

(a) the complainants lose all the way to the Supreme Court
(b) they are left penniless

:cool:

youngrun

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Now there's a surprise development! Let's hope that

(a) the complainants lose all the way to the Supreme Court
(b) they are left penniless

:cool:

And dont forget Europe either

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/eu-court-blocks-bypass-over-fears-of-damage-to-protected-limestone-29191203.html

Whats a realistic timeframe on the route given this possibility re legals etc?

Schadenfreudia

youngrun wrote: »

And dont forget Europe either

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/eu-court-blocks-bypass-over-fears-of-damage-to-protected-limestone-29191203.html

Whats a realistic timeframe on the route given this possibility re legals etc?

It seems a throwback to the late 90s/early 2000s when the idea was to bury projects in delays and added costs in the hope they'd be abandoned (as had happened in England on some roads projects).

The anti-Galway bypass spokesman even admitted as much!

In the "Celtic Tiger" years the objections were overwhelmed by the sheer number of projects and the limitless money available, but the State also reduced its legal vulnerability to NIMBY/Luddite challenges.

This could be a good fight!

I would hope for a crushing victory for sanity as occurred in the case of the Carrickmines M50 case. :cool:

Deedsie

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

It seems a throwback to the late 90s/early 2000s when the idea was to bury projects in delays and added costs in the hope they'd be abandoned (as had happened in England on some roads projects).

The anti-Galway bypass spokesman even admitted as much!

In the "Celtic Tiger" years the objections were overwhelmed by the sheer number of projects and the limitless money available, but the State also reduced its legal vulnerability to NIMBY/Luddite challenges.

This could be a good fight!

I would hope for a crushing victory for sanity as occurred in the case of the Carrickmines M50 case. :cool:

I suppose the anti-Galway bypass people will consider a long delay as a partial victory? Just a nuisance is all they are.

Similar story in Balina-Killaloe, there was supposed to be a new bridge and bypass started a couple of years ago. Some guy opposed it and I haven't heard a thing since about the bridge.

Fozzie Bear

Really good animation / 3D visualisation of the proposed GCOB. Well worth watching.

Gives a very good idea of what it will look like if ever built. I personally didn't realise there were so many bridges and raised sections of road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BndUQPvs2s

Schadenfreudia

Three things spring to mind!

- A mountain of fill to be moved east to west!
- The landscape is amazingly bleak and moon-like - looks more like a desert area than rainy Galway
- Galway city and environs seriously needs to plant more trees everywhere; more trees and less bog-lice

Great video.

Deedsie

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Really good animation / 3D visualisation of the proposed GCOB. Well worth watching.

Gives a very good idea of what it will look like if ever built. I personally didn't realise there were so many bridges and raised sections of road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BndUQPvs2s

What a phenomenal road that would be. Ready to go around 2021? That is my prediction.

Iwannahurl

Deedsie wrote: »

What a phenomenal road that would be.

Phenomenal?

Deedsie wrote: »

Ready to go around 2021? That is my prediction.

Yeah right.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055413202

http://connachttribune.ie/anti-bypass-meeting-attracts-600-people

Deedsie

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Phenomenal?





Yeah right.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055413202

http://connachttribune.ie/anti-bypass-meeting-attracts-600-people

Not really sure how to reply to that type of post. Yes it would be phenomenal road and would make Galway so much more accessible. I think a large cheque would assuage a significant number of that 600.

what_traffic

Deedsie wrote: »

I think a large cheque would assuage a significant number of that 600.

How much will this cheque add to the €500,000,000+ that the proposed 13km City Expressway will cost?

Ren2k7

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Really good animation / 3D visualisation of the proposed GCOB. Well worth watching.

Gives a very good idea of what it will look like if ever built. I personally didn't realise there were so many bridges and raised sections of road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BndUQPvs2s

Why couldn't they have simply uploaded the video itself that was playing rather than taking a recording of it playing? Also the level of complexity featured leads me to conclude it'll be well into the next decade before we finally get a chance to drive on it. The planning application won't be submitted until the end of the year, at the earliest, and ABP will probably come back with a list of changes that will drag the project out even longer.

Ren2k7

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Phenomenal?





Yeah right.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055413202

http://connachttribune.ie/anti-bypass-meeting-attracts-600-people

Why in the hell would 600 gobshytes come out to oppose a much needed infrastructure project that will is guaranteed to significantly bolster the Galway economy and the wider region? I'm sorry but these people are cretins, no two ways of putting it.

Deedsie

what_traffic wrote: »

How much will this cheque add to the €500,000,000+ that the proposed 13km City Expressway will cost?

The value of the 40+ homes plus whatever incentive it takes to make the home owners happy. Within reason. The other protestors can only be dealt with in court. So hopefully any opposition will be dealt with through the courts as fast as possible.

what_traffic

Deedsie wrote: »

The value of the 40+ homes plus whatever incentive it takes to make the home owners happy. Within reason. The other protestors can only be dealt with in court. So hopefully any opposition will be dealt with through the courts as fast as possible.

What about the landowners, householders and residents of these houses close to the route - presume they make up a large part of the 600 who turned up for the Castlegar meeting? They all already know about the CPO process.

What kind of money do you think will buy these people off?
Put a figure on it?
Maybe they cannot be bought off like you Deedsie?

Fozzie Bear

what_traffic wrote: »

What kind of money do you think will buy these people off?
Put a figure on it?
Maybe they cannot be bought off like you Deedsie?

Its not about "buying them off". Its about compensating them for the hassle/trauma/ordeal they are being faced with.

On that question, my cousin works with a legal firm that is representing a lot of land and home owners involved in the GCOB. (They have worked on similar cases across the country). From experience alone with previous projects my cousin was saying that people here will be compensated extremely well. Not just open market value payments but multiples of that. They have already held meetings with home owners about this.

Its obviously highly emotive at the moment and people are rightly digging their heels in and are annoyed. But usually when things settle down a bit and people start getting an idea of the compensation they will be getting and talk to each other and their legal teams, well mind sets change.... Not with everyone but you will find a lot of people will take the offer of a new home and a lump sum. More so if their negative equity is wiped out or they end up debt free. That's the levels of compo they are looking here.

For those living near the proposed road, well look at the Ennis bypass. There are multiple houses along its route. Right on top of it at the Barefield end. How did they manage to build that I wonder? Money talks...

Deedsie

what_traffic wrote: »

What about the landowners, householders and residents of these houses close to the route - presume they make up a large part of the 600 who turned up for the Castlegar meeting? They all already know about the CPO process.

What kind of money do you think will buy these people off?
Put a figure on it?
Maybe they cannot be bought off like you Deedsie?

Same as every other land owner in the country. Compulsory purchase order. The protestors can delay it all they want through the courts but eventually progress will win out. Keep the personal digs to yourself thanks very much. Against the charter to target other posters personally.

what_traffic

Deedsie wrote: »

Same as every other land owner in the country. Compulsory purchase order. The protestors can delay it all they want through the courts but eventually progress will win out.Keep the personal digs to yourself thanks very much. Against the charter to target other posters personally.

They already know about CPO as my previous post pointed out?
These people will not, and do not want to be bought off.
The idea that building more and more roads as progress is laughable. The ARUP project lead Eileen McCarthy has stated on the public airwaves that the proposed road will not solve Galway City's Car traffic woes.

guylikeme

what_traffic wrote: »

They already know about CPO as my previous post pointed out?
These people will not, and do not want to be bought off.

Compulsory is compulsory. Sing dance moan etc all you like like the kids on the first days of school, but like the kids, its happening.

what_traffic

guylikeme wrote: »

Compulsory is compulsory. Sing dance moan etc all you like like the kids on the first days of school, but like the kids, its happening.

Ah but you can home school the kids. Different solutions are always available.
May never even get to CPO stage, that is a good bit away.

Iwannahurl

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Its not about "buying them off". Its about compensating them for the hassle/trauma/ordeal they are being faced with.

...

Money talks...

Quite.

Fozzie Bear

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Quite.

Ha! I see what you did there.

"Quite" droll

monument

guylikeme wrote: »

Compulsory is compulsory. Sing dance moan etc all you like like the kids on the first days of school, but like the kids, its happening.

Really? You're sure about that? How sure?

As sure as the people who posted on this site and swore that the outer was going to go ahead and, by now, we'd already have reasoning published which would allow the councils to push ahead with the old plan?

spacetweek

what_traffic wrote: »

The idea that building more and more roads as progress is laughable. The ARUP project lead Eileen McCarthy has stated on the public airwaves that the proposed road will not solve Galway City's Car traffic woes.

I think we've fairly firmly agreed so far that that is the case - without large scale investment in buses and cycle lanes, the bypass will not be enough.

Schadenfreudia

spacetweek wrote: »

I think we've fairly firmly agreed so far that that is the case - without large scale investment in buses and cycle lanes, the bypass will not be enough.

Yep, one of the functions of the bypass is to facilitate that.

dloob

what_traffic wrote: »

They already know about CPO as my previous post pointed out?
These people will not, and do not want to be bought off.
The idea that building more and more roads as progress is laughable. The ARUP project lead Eileen McCarthy has stated on the public airwaves that the proposed road will not solve Galway City's Car traffic woes.

Everybody has a price (for the million dollar man).
Of course it may not be one the taxpayer wants to pay so we have CPOs to stop it going too crazy.

Iwannahurl

spacetweek wrote: »

I think we've fairly firmly agreed so far that that is the case - without large scale investment in buses and cycle lanes, the bypass will not be enough.

The ARUP associate director also said that "we can't keep on building more roads".

Unfortunately, because ARUP's only brief is for a road, they obviously feel they can't stop just yet.

There is no large scale investment proposed for "buses and cycle lanes", nor has there been for the past few decades. That's why we have a major consultancy firm planning a road, while simultaneously admitting that we can't keep doing exactly what they're doing.

Schadenfreudia

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That's why we have a major consultancy firm planning a road, while simultaneously admitting that we can't keep doing exactly what they're doing.

Claiming; not "admitting". There is a difference you know :rolleyes: