M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

youngrun

youngrun wrote: »

N6 action group meeting tomorrow I understand, I wonder where they are at re a campaign against the route or otherwise , might go along.

I wonder......

Can the "N" in N6 action group stand for Nimby?

"The Nimby 6 action group" just rolls off the tongue and captures what they're are about in both the literal and figurative sense

Just remembering that some of these are the ones who prevented the Bish move to free land provided by the Uni.

Schadenfreudia

monument wrote: »

You've lost in any attempt to actually tackle the points I've made so you have tired to flinging muck and trying to say I'm not demanding better PT funding... Unreal

I've certainly not "lost"

Ireland's road infrastructure is below par; its PT infrastructure in Dublin is very far below par.

We need increases in transport infrastructure investment; over the past 60 years the lowest in Western Europe - including roads.

You'd be better arguing for more PT investment than whining about the seriously inadequate investments in roads.

Politicians just love the type of negative arguments you make; they provide the perfect cover for doing very little or nothing. Start a controversy about every major project - and save money that can be spent on your local priorities

Result: decrepit unmaintained inadequate roads in the country and no metro system in the city.

monument

Carawaystick wrote: »

Good roads have greatly improved public transport, it's not an either or.
It's quicker form Dublin city centre to Galway city centre by road on a bus, than by tram&train, not to mention the disaster of getting to Galway by train from Limerick.

If it was not clear: I was referring to the chronic imbalance between motorway spend and spend on sustainable transport in our cities (i.e. Dart Underground, metro, Luas, BRT, walking and cycling).

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

I've certainly not "lost"

Ireland's road infrastructure is below par; its PT infrastructure in Dublin is very far below par.

We need increases in transport infrastructure investment; over the past 60 years the lowest in Western Europe - including roads.

You'd be better arguing for more PT investment than whining about the seriously inadequate investments in roads.

Politicians just love the type of negative arguments you make; they provide the perfect cover for doing very little or nothing. Start a controversy about every major project - and save money that can be spent on your local priorities

Result: decrepit unmaintained inadequate roads in the country and no metro system in the city.

You can say you have not lost or whatever, but it is clear that you are failing to deal with the issues in previous posts (trying to claim there was no bad planning in Dublin bar not making roads larger enough when a tribunal was needed for the bad planning), then you go on to mud slinging and trying to blame people for a lack of large scale road investment while the budget for such projects remains high (which is clear nonsense -- nobody can be blamed for a lack of such funding while such funding is high).

Yes. The M50 is a success. And yes. The Emperor is wearing nothing at all.

Schadenfreudia

monument wrote: »

If it was not clear: I was referring to the chronic imbalance between motorway spend and spend on sustainable transport in our cities (i.e. Dart Underground, metro, Luas, BRT, walking and cycling).

That was very clear, and I explained by that was pointless and negative and only gives succour to the mindset which opposes infrastructural investment in general.

You can say you have not lost or whatever, but it is clear that you are failing to deal with the issues in previous posts

I have dealt rather comprehensively with all he issues you raised, including the fallacies.

(trying to claim there was no bad planning in Dublin bar not making roads larger enough when a tribunal was needed for the bad planning)

Trying to claim the M50 was part of the "bad planning" is simply nonsense.

then you go on to mud slinging and trying to blame people for a lack of large scale road investment while the budget for such projects remains high (which is clear nonsense -- nobody can be blamed for a lack of such funding while such funding is high).

Not sure what your point is. What does "nobody can be blamed for a lack of such funding while such funding is high" mean?

I have stated the fact that for the past 60 years our investment in transport infrastructure, roads and PT, has been way below developed country norms.

You seem unable to grasp that simple fact.

Yes. The M50 is a success.

Correct.

And yes. The Emperor is wearing nothing at all.

Bit OTT to compare yourself to an Emperor :rolleyes:

spacetweek

Back on topic please.

what_traffic

Meeting was on last night. Good turnout. Reckon 150-200 people attended at the Westwood. Twitter handle
https://twitter.com/N6Action
They were live tweeting during the event.
Is worth reviewing if you want to hear various sound bites from local representatives and others regarding the proposal.

youngrun

what_traffic wrote: »

Meeting was on last night. Good turnout. Reckon 150-200 people attended at the Westwood. Twitter handle
https://twitter.com/N6Action
They were live tweeting during the event.
Is worth reviewing if you want to hear various sound bites from local representatives and others regarding the proposal.

Meant to go but work intervened
Was there anything concrete about route selection process and what this Action group is likely to do strategy wise. Was there representation from NUI galway at it re their lands the subject of a big chunk of route.

what_traffic

youngrun wrote: »

Meant to go but work intervened
Was there anything concrete about route selection process and what this Action group is likely to do strategy wise. Was there representation from NUI galway at it re their lands the subject of a big chunk of route.

No NUIG representative. Plenty of politicians.
Only arrived during the 2nd half of the Route Selection process presentation. Was not sure exaclty what the purpose of this presentation was.
Some of the presentations given are here.
https://galwayn6action.wordpress.com/2016/02/04/publicinfopresentations/

Re strategy - would need to contact them directly. At the end of meeting was call for support from affected persons (and others) for funding to hire experts for the ABP process when submissions wil be made.

yer man!

http://connachttribune.ie/meeting-hears-city-bypass-will-increase-traffic-congestion-722/

These people just don't get it! The article pushes the notion that the one of the major issues they are having is that the bypass would only serve 3% of the people (ppl that need to use the entire road end to end to bypass the city) by comparison, what's the percentage tag of people that need to use any ring road end to end? Most people would be using portions of this road to navigate in and out of the city to get from one section to another. Like seriously it's like a broken record, they know it's needed and every other city has one and are viral to them but just it's just pure NIMBYISM.

yer man!

yer man! wrote: »

Like seriously it's like a broken record, they know it's needed and every other city has one and are viral to them but just it's just pure NIMBYISM.

I assume that you mean vital, but viral works as well as most cities that have had bypass operations tend to grow (like a virus) and fill in the gaps between itself and the new road & often extending outwards.

yer man!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I assume that you mean vital, but viral works as well as most cities that have had bypass operations tend to grow (like a virus) and fill in the gaps between itself and the new road & often extending outwards.

Sorry, phone typing.... I accept that cities will grow, it is infrastructure. We are extremely limited for options at this point however, there simply isn't room to put in added public transport alongside current road capacity without closing roads, this option can only really be explored once the traffic can bleed off to somewhere else.

monument

yer man! wrote: »

Sorry, phone typing.... I accept that cities will grow, it is infrastructure. We are extremely limited for options at this point however, there simply isn't room to put in added public transport alongside current road capacity without closing roads, this option can only really be explored once the traffic can bleed off to somewhere else.

That's not really supported by evidence and is certainly not a given.

Loads of examples in Dublin and around the world where traffic is displaced without any extra road space for traffic elsewhere.

And Dublin is going to continue to displace traffic within the M50 even with the M50 at critical levels and most of the displaced traffic would not be using the M50 anyway.

In any case, closing roads is generally not done -- restricting ineffective travel modes and travel patterns in what's done elsewhere, with access maintained for those who need it.

GDSGR8

monument wrote: »

That's not really supported by evidence and is certainly not a given.

Loads of examples in Dublin and around the world where traffic is displaced without any extra road space for traffic elsewhere.

And Dublin is going to continue to displace traffic within the M50 even with the M50 at critical levels and most of the displaced traffic would not be using the M50 anyway.

In any case, closing roads is generally not done -- restricting ineffective travel modes and travel patterns in what's done elsewhere, with access maintained for those who need it.

Your points are only partially true, but don't really apply in Galway's case in any event. The geography of Galway, sandwiched between Lough Corrib and the Atlantic Ocean funnels everything through a narrow corridor. There are only four bridges, three of which have very limited capacity. There are essentially only about six effectively operating lanes crossing the bridge at any given time. Dedicating two of those to exclusive public transport use (which is a desirable aim ultimately) isn't really viable as things stand. Another bridge, not constrained by running directly into a medieval street network, is necessary to achieve this.

Shurimgreat

Does Galway really need a bypass? Yes the traffic is an inconvienence but its the same in every city in Ireland. The big problem in galway is the school run. After its over the traffic is fine. If you can miss the school run either before or delay your journey a few minutes its fine.

I'm not convinced.

Schadenfreudia

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Does Galway really need a bypass? Yes the traffic is an inconvienence but its the same in every city in Ireland. The big problem in galway is the school run. After its over the traffic is fine. If you can miss the school run either before or delay your journey a few minutes its fine.

I'm not convinced.

Yeah? Why would a town of 80,000 people need a bypass....just because every such town in the developed world has one?

Ridiculous :rolleyes:

GDSGR8

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Does Galway really need a bypass? Yes the traffic is an inconvienence but its the same in every city in Ireland. The big problem in galway is the school run. After its over the traffic is fine. If you can miss the school run either before or delay your journey a few minutes its fine.

I'm not convinced.

It clogs up well before the school run. It's also prone to massive delays and virtual gridlock at off peaks time on occasion and for no obvious reason and when, God forbid, a single lane is closed off on the N6 due to a burst watermain then total chaos descends. When a serious traffic accident occurs, forget about it. And then you've got the seasonal mayhem associated with the novena, race week etc etc. But no, it's the school run that's all it is. Problem solved.

m17

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Does Galway really need a bypass? Yes the traffic is an inconvienence but its the same in every city in Ireland. The big problem in galway is the school run. After its over the traffic is fine. If you can miss the school run either before or delay your journey a few minutes its fine.

I'm not convinced.

Yes it does I drove Dublin to Briarhill in 90 minutes then it that long again to get to barna there hasn't been a bridge built over the corrib since 1985

spacetweek

Galway needs a new bypass basically so that the existing one can be rededicated to public transport. This will require engineering changes, new buses, and a lot of branding as currently PT doesn't have a good image in the city.

what_traffic

spacetweek wrote: »

Galway needs a new bypass basically so that the existing one can be rededicated to public transport. This will require engineering changes, new buses, and a lot of branding as currently PT doesn't have a good image in the city.

If the City Expressway was actually been sold alongside this proposal it would have a lot more supporters IMHO. No indication at all that this will actually occur. Most likely it will be business as usual should it be built.

GDSGR8

what_traffic wrote: »

If the City Expressway was actually been sold alongside this proposal it would have a lot more supporters IMHO. No indication at all that this will actually occur. Most likely it will be business as usual should it be built.

Expressway in Ireland refers to a bus service, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with such a bizarre name. Anyway, the overall project includes a public transport component, the details of which should become clearer when the NTA report is published this month. It'll be difficult for the road component to get article 6(4) approval without having a definitive plan to back it up.

what_traffic

GDSGR8 wrote: »

Expressway in Ireland refers to a bus service, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with such a bizarre name. Anyway, the overall project includes a public transport component, the details of which should become clearer when the NTA report is published this month. It'll be difficult for the road component to get article 6(4) approval without having a definitive plan to back it up.

Yes it is unusual when I heard it first. Has a US ring to it. It
is a title already used in the local media, the first person I heard saying it was Eileen McCarthy of ARUP who is the lead project engineer for the N6 Galway City Transport Project: Home
Already covered here in this closed thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055431889&page=62

Agree re article 6(4) - but they (Galway City and County Council) have approached it by putting the cart before the ass.

Carawaystick

GDSGR8 wrote: »

. Anyway, the overall project includes a public transport component, the details of which should become clearer when the NTA report is published this month.

This would be the same NTA that prevented a 15min bus service and said a 30 min service would be grand, when a private operator wanted to serve Galway city right?

Shurimgreat

Again, its been mentioned elsewhere that the proportion of traffic who would use the bypass at any time is relatively small compared to the amount of traffic in Galway generally - less than 5% I think is the figure I heard. In other words it would reduce traffic by about 5% - hardly worth the cost.

It would not do a significant amount to cure the traffic issue in Galway. It might speed up some journeys for some people but wouldn't do much for everyone else.

From what I can see the problems are related to the school run - Galway in the summer is relatively quiet traffic wise. There are also various bottle necks around the city such as between the University and the Hospital - ie people working there or attending them. These bottle necks would not be solved by a bypass.

Salthill is another blackspot, probably because of the number of secondary schools with people bringing their kids from all over Galway just so they can attend a secondary school there. Would it make sense to move one of the secondary schools? Would more school buses make sense? I see a lot of short journeys too with parents dropping their kids off. Would safer cycle lanes make sense? There's very few of them in Galway and I rarely see kids cycling to school. Again, a bypass wouldn't solve this.

The only thing a bypass would do is get people to the next bottleneck quicker. A little thinking outside the box wouldn't go amiss and a little recognition that the Galway traffic problem is complex and the fix is complex too as opposed to the simplistic "lets build a bypass".

Shurimgreat

m17 wrote: »

Yes it does I drove Dublin to Briarhill in 90 minutes then it that long again to get to barna there hasn't been a bridge built over the corrib since 1985

What time were you driving through Galway? And what route did you take? And how many people are driving Briarhill to Barna on a daily basis or as part of their commute?

There needs to be a certain minimum number of people to benefit from a bypass for it to make sense. Some people cross the corrib as part of their commute, but it needs to be established what proportion of overall traffic and if a bypass will bring real benefits or just a small improvement.

I'd be in favour of a congestion charge myself along with more bus lanes, cycle lanes, improved public transport and possibly widening the existing bridge over the Corrib to accommodate a bus/taxi lane.

Ren2k7

Carawaystick wrote: »

This would be the same NTA that prevented a 15min bus service and said a 30 min service would be grand, when a private operator wanted to serve Galway city right?

The NTA should be abolished really. It's just another useless quango.

GDSGR8

Ren2k7 wrote: »

The NTA should be abolished really. It's just another useless quango.

In what way is it a useless quango? Please provide some evidence to support your position.

Carawaystick

Shurimgreat wrote: »

There needs to be a certain minimum number of people to benefit from a bypass for it to make sense. Some people cross the corrib as part of their commute, but it needs to be established what proportion of overall traffic and if a bypass will bring real benefits or just a small improvement.
.

If only the census asked where people worked and where they lived and how they got to work... :rolleyes:

GDSGR8

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Again, its been mentioned elsewhere that the proportion of traffic who would use the bypass at any time is relatively small compared to the amount of traffic in Galway generally - less than 5% I think is the figure I heard. In other words it would reduce traffic by about 5% - hardly worth the cost.

It would not do a significant amount to cure the traffic issue in Galway. It might speed up some journeys for some people but wouldn't do much for everyone else.

From what I can see the problems are related to the school run - Galway in the summer is relatively quiet traffic wise. There are also various bottle necks around the city such as between the University and the Hospital - ie people working there or attending them. These bottle necks would not be solved by a bypass.

Salthill is another blackspot, probably because of the number of secondary schools with people bringing their kids from all over Galway just so they can attend a secondary school there. Would it make sense to move one of the secondary schools? Would more school buses make sense? I see a lot of short journeys too with parents dropping their kids off. Would safer cycle lanes make sense? There's very few of them in Galway and I rarely see kids cycling to school. Again, a bypass wouldn't solve this.

The only thing a bypass would do is get people to the next bottleneck quicker. A little thinking outside the box wouldn't go amiss and a little recognition that the Galway traffic problem is complex and the fix is complex too as opposed to the simplistic "lets build a bypass".

Complete and utter nonsense, start to finish. It's remarkably (to the point of suspicion) similar to the drivel I heard at the N6 action group meeting. Embarrassing.

Ren2k7

GDSGR8 wrote: »

In what way is it a useless quango? Please provide some evidence to support your position.

Regulation of city and county transport services could just as easily be handled at local authority level with regulation at the national level handled by the Dept. of Transport.

GDSGR8

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Regulation of city and county transport services could just as easily be handled at local authority level with regulation at the national level handled by the Dept. of Transport.

Several decades of evidence suggest otherwise, the NTA has only been around for a few years. Care to try again?