M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Ren2k7

GDSGR8 wrote: »

Several decades of evidence suggest otherwise, the NTA has only been around for a few years. Care to try again?

No, I'm quite content that I'm right on this.

spacetweek

Ren2k7 wrote: »

No, I'm quite content that I'm right on this.

You definitely aren't. The whole point of taking control of transport from county councils and giving it to the NTA was because CCo's were failing at it.

spacetweek

GDSGR8 wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense, start to finish. It's remarkably (to the point of suspicion) similar to the drivel I heard at the N6 action group meeting. Embarrassing.

Absolutely. And the 5% figure! Laughable.

Carawaystick

Ren2k7 wrote: »

No, I'm quite content that I'm right on this.

How much do you think the city council would give to public transport operators vs the amount the NTA give BÉ?

Shurimgreat

GDSGR8 wrote: »

Complete and utter nonsense, start to finish. It's remarkably (to the point of suspicion) similar to the drivel I heard at the N6 action group meeting. Embarrassing.

Not embarrassing in the least. What is vastly more embarrassing is people like you essentially saying a bypass will solve ALL Galway's traffic problems. You really didn't bother reading my entire post. A bypass will solve some of Galway's traffic problems, even its advocates recognise it will solve only a small part of it. The issue is complex, far more complex than you can understand from what I can see. But yeh build your bypass and see if that will fix it. Expensive mistake if it doesn't.

Shurimgreat

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Yeah? Why would a town of 80,000 people need a bypass....just because every such town in the developed world has one?

Ridiculous :rolleyes:

Many such towns particularly in Europe also have light rail. Encouraging more cars in Galway is not the answer to these traffic problems.

m17

Shurimgreat wrote: »

What time were you driving through Galway? And what route did you take? And how many people are driving Briarhill to Barna on a daily basis or as part of their commute?

There needs to be a certain minimum number of people to benefit from a bypass for it to make sense. Some people cross the corrib as part of their commute, but it needs to be established what proportion of overall traffic and if a bypass will bring real benefits or just a small improvement.

I'd be in favour of a congestion charge myself along with more bus lanes, cycle lanes, improved public transport and possibly widening the existing bridge over the Corrib to accommodate a bus/taxi lane.

Left Dublin at 6.40am got to the roundabout just before Briarhill at 8.10am there was such a long tail back what's going to happen when the m17/m18 opens there will be tail backs back as far as cranmore junction 19 then got to the Briarhill junction I can't believe that the roundabout is going back in when the bypass starts kept going past galway shopping junction over the bridge past Westside turned left, passed Knocknacarra and finally arrived in Barna by 9.40 never again god help next week when the novena starts

Shurimgreat

m17 wrote: »

Left Dublin at 6.40am got to the roundabout just before Briarhill at 8.10am there was such a long tail back what's going to happen when the m17/m18 opens there will be tail backs back as far as cranmore junction 19 then got to the Briarhill junction I can't believe that the roundabout is going back in when the bypass starts kept going past galway shopping junction over the bridge past Westside turned left, passed Knocknacarra and finally arrived in Barna by 9.40 never again

You hit rush hour traffic, school run, university, commuters coming from basically all over Galway and some from Mayo, Clare and so on. Everyone converges on Galway at that hour of the morning. If you had arrived in Galway at 9.10, the same journey would take you 30 minutes. I have experienced the same myself. My commute is 10-12 minutes if I leave my house at 9am when things die down. If I left at 8.30, it would be about 30 minutes in traffic, although I try to take back roads which helps. If I drive home at lunchtime, its back to 10-12 minutes. Evening rush hour, 20 minutes.

Ren2k7

spacetweek wrote: »

You definitely aren't. The whole point of taking control of transport from county councils and giving it to the NTA was because CCo's were failing at it.

What powers were taken from county council's? The NTA was just a rebranding of the Dublin Transport Office with transport regulation moved out of the Dept to the NTA. It's funny hearing people say that local authorities are incapable of running transport services themselves when they've never been trusted by central government to begin with. When we see CoCo's with some actual powers in transport provision THEN your argument may stand up to scrutiny.

Shurimgreat

My understanding and I really only learned this today, is County Councils are responsible for minor and regional roads, whereas the NTA are solely responsible for motorways and major bypasses. The council wouldn't be involved in motorways or bypasses.

Sam Russell

Ren2k7 wrote: »

What powers were taken from county council's?

The ability to be a county councillor and a TD at the same time.

m17

Sam Russell wrote: »

The ability to be a county councillor and a TD at the same time.

Roll on the 26th of February

Carawaystick

Shurimgreat wrote: »

My understanding and I really only learned this today, is County Councils are responsible for minor and regional roads, whereas the NTA are solely responsible for motorways and major bypasses. The council wouldn't be involved in motorways or bypasses.

You are confusing TII with the NTA, TII is the NRA & RPA.

Councils (City and County) are involved in Motorways. Dublin City council was the lead for the port tunnel for example.

The TII aren't responsible for minor roads, but are jointly responsible for national roads


NTA = National transport Authority
TII = Transport Infrastructure Ireland
RPA = Railway Procurement Agency
NRA = National Roads Authority
AbS = Alphabet Soup of quangos....

Shurimgreat

Carawaystick wrote: »

You are confusing TII with the NTA, TII is the NRA & RPA.

Councils (City and County) are involved in Motorways. Dublin City council was the lead for the port tunnel for example.

The TII aren't responsible for minor roads, but are jointly responsible for national roads


NTA = National transport Authority
TII = Transport Infrastructure Ireland
RPA = Railway Procurement Agency
NRA = National Roads Authority
AbS = Alphabet Soup of quangos....

I stand corrected!

Schadenfreudia

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Many such towns particularly in Europe also have light rail. Encouraging more cars in Galway is not the answer to these traffic problems.

This is encouraging more cars to stay out of Galway city centre :rolleyes:

How many of those towns had their light rail before a bypass (and I'm not referring to trams in the pre-car era)?

Schadenfreudia

m17 wrote: »

Roll on the 26th of February

Are the candidates taking a firm stand, for/against the proposed bypass?

monument

GDSGR8 wrote: »

Your points are only partially true, but don't really apply in Galway's case in any event. The geography of Galway, sandwiched between Lough Corrib and the Atlantic Ocean funnels everything through a narrow corridor. There are only four bridges, three of which have very limited capacity. There are essentially only about six effectively operating lanes crossing the bridge at any given time. Dedicating two of those to exclusive public transport use (which is a desirable aim ultimately) isn't really viable as things stand. Another bridge, not constrained by running directly into a medieval street network, is necessary to achieve this.

Or you could have a new bridge for trams - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057438782

Another option of leaving the current city centre bypass to general traffic would be to close one or more of the inner bridges for traffic and have them bus-only with bus priority into and of the city centre.

There's more than one option or number of things you could do to add to capacity over the river: if they were willing to put in bus lanes linking up to it, they could expand the Father Griffin Road bridge to include bus and cycle lanes or the Bridge Street bridge could accomadate a two-way cycle route if the taxi rank or a traffic lane was removed and if there was willingness to make some of the streets linking into it one-way with parking and a two way cycle path or remove the parking.

The only thing that has really been looked at is extra roads and Galway's car dependency (including factors like its current messed up bus system) stops meaningful capacity changes which allows for more people to be moved in the current restricted space.

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

This is encouraging more cars to stay out of Galway city centre :rolleyes:

How many of those towns had their light rail before a bypass (and I'm not referring to trams in the pre-car era)?

Galway has a bypass which does not use any central streets or other confined urban city villages/centres. The plan is to add an outer bypass.

A lot could be done within the current bypass in terms of walking, cycling and public transport. Galway us a city where there is bus stops in places like outside third level colleges but no save way to cross the road to one of the bus stops.

Ren2k7

Sam Russell wrote: »

The ability to be a county councillor and a TD at the same time.

How is that relevant to this discussion? spacetweek claimed that transport powers had been transferred from the CoCo's to the NTA, this isn't true. LA have never had any transport powers. It is an arms length quango that had powers transferred from the Dept of Transport to ensure ministers wouldn't be responsible for transport regulation. It SHOULD be abolished and its responsibilities transferred back to the Dept of Transport while local transport handled by local authorities.

what_traffic

monument wrote: »

Another option of leaving the current city centre bypass to general traffic would be to close one or more of the inner bridges for traffic and have them bus-only with bus priority into and of the city centre.

Salmon Weir Bridge is the obvious canidate for this. Huge pedestrian numbers crossing at all hours going from NUIG into the City Centre.

But a bus gate /bus priority facilities here, widen the footpaths and build cycling facilities.
Also Eglinton Stree and Eyre Sq should be closed off from Private Car traffic.
Would make all the bus services that service the North and West of the City more reliable as this is a pinch point for them and encourage more walking and cycling.

m17

Why can't the build the bypass from oranmore to barna out over galway bay

Carawaystick

m17 wrote: »

Why can't the build the bypass from oranmore to barna out over galway bay

I guess that's tongue in cheek, but how do you get to the Headford road or the Moycullen road then?
Apart from any aestethic or cost or allowing shipping past.
It'd be like building the Athlone bypass south of Athlone.

m17

Carawaystick wrote: »

I guess that's tongue in cheek, but how do you get to the Headford road or the Moycullen road then?
Apart from any aestethic or cost or allowing shipping past.
It'd be like building the Athlone bypass south of Athlone.

Have something like the east link bridge halfway for shipping to pass and leave the moycullen and headford road and put in bus lanes, at least the won't have to knock down 40 houses

spacetweek

m17 wrote: »

Have something like the east link bridge halfway for shipping to pass and leave the moycullen and headford road and put in bus lanes, at least the won't have to knock down 40 houses

Agreed, but we could have avoided easily having to demolish 40 houses if Galway coco had not allowed suburban one-off sprawl and we'd defined a protected corridor a couple of decades ago.

Shurimgreat

Any bypass or critical infrastructure project like this needs to be future proofed - ie works well 30, 40 or 50 years down the line and not just for the next 20 years.

Also, how does this fit exactly with our commitments to reducing carbon emissions? By encouraging more cars?

I have no issue with bypasses in general. But they have to satisfy numerous conditions. All I envisage with a Galway bypass is people bypassing the city until they take the turn off on the Tuam Road or Headford Road and from there, they are stuck in the same queues as now.

Everything should be tried first and the bypass should be the final resort. For example, why not have workplaces divided into 3 sections. Those that start at 8.30am, 9.00am and 9.30am. Also something similar for schools. This would make a huge difference in my view, akin to a bypass. There would be inconveniences of course, but people would have to deal with them, if they want to retain their over-dependence on the car. People need to change their habits.

m17

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Any bypass or critical infrastructure project like this needs to be future proofed - ie works well 30, 40 or 50 years down the line and not just for the next 20 years.

Also, how does this fit exactly with our commitments to reducing carbon emissions? By encouraging more cars?

I have no issue with bypasses in general. But they have to satisfy numerous conditions. All I envisage with a Galway bypass is people bypassing the city until they take the turn off on the Tuam Road or Headford Road and from there, they are stuck in the same queues as now.

Everything should be tried first and the bypass should be the final resort. For example, why not have workplaces divided into 3 sections. Those that start at 8.30am, 9.00am and 9.30am. Also something similar for schools. This would make a huge difference in my view, akin to a bypass. There would be inconveniences of course, but people would have to deal with them, if they want to retain their over-dependence on the car. People need to change their habits.

Yes but this bypass is 20 years to late

spacetweek

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Also, how does this fit exactly with our commitments to reducing carbon emissions? By encouraging more cars?

Our intention isn't to facilitate more cars, though I admit out near the edge of the city driving will be greatly facilitated by the provision of the bypass.
Electric cars charged from green energy will eventually eliminate pollution concerns, leaving only issues around congestion and sedentary lifestyles.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I have no issue with bypasses in general. But they have to satisfy numerous conditions. All I envisage with a Galway bypass is people bypassing the city until they take the turn off on the Tuam Road or Headford Road and from there, they are stuck in the same queues as now.

Those queues exist largely because there is no bypass.

Schadenfreudia

spacetweek wrote: »

Electric cars charged from green energy will eventually eliminate pollution concerns, leaving only issues around congestion and sedentary lifestyles.

No problemo!

By then the cars will be self-driving and you can work a treadmill as you drive.

Cycling or walking in our climate will only be for crazed Luddites! :cool:

The fourth world is still a generation away( a time when localisation becomes the norm[as it was before the current abundance of fossil fuel energy]) , in the meantime though; we really do need a decent traffic solution for Galway.

Schadenfreudia

Deleted User wrote: »

The fourth world is still a generation away( a time when localisation becomes the norm[as it was before the current abundance of fossil fuel energy]) , in the meantime though; we really do need a decent traffic solution for Galway.

I would imagine we are more likely to see Armageddon before we retreat to medieval localism.

Not gonna happen IMHO; we'll need roads for at least the next few hundred years....barring said End of Days.

Green cars are but a few small steps away.

We possibly might have brain-implants to access all human knowledge in a generation....but I wouldn't stop building schools and colleges now in anticipation of it

Shurimgreat

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

I would imagine we are more likely to see Armageddon before we retreat to medieval localism.

Not gonna happen IMHO; we'll need roads for at least the next few hundred years....barring said End of Days.

Green cars are but a few small steps away.

We possibly might have brain-implants to access all human knowledge in a generation....but I wouldn't stop building schools and colleges now in anticipation of it

Er no they are not. Tesla are the only company exclusively committed to them. Their prices are well out of the reach of the average commuter and that's even with government subsidies. The other motor companies have made no more than a token effort. There has been no real technological breakthrough to make these cars affordable to the majority. They remain as much a pipedream as they were 40, 30 or 20 years ago. We are still talking decades before they are the norm. Possibly hydrogen cars are more realistic than battery powered but again still a long way off.

Localisation is not medieval. Virtually every modern traffic management expert and city planner advocates localisation. The alternative is urban sprawl and long commutes. People who work in the city should ideally live in the city. People who work out of town should live out of town.

I think one of the issues with Galway is the concentration of companies in business parks. This inevitably creates traffic congestion. Also historically it made sense to have the university and hospital beside each other. From a modern traffic point of view it doesn't. One of them should be out of town.

A bypass is not going to reduce the number of cars in Galway city. It will shift them around but when cars come off the bypass the problems will be the same as always.

Again I have no issue with a bypass but a bypass alone is not the solution. There needs to be more bus lanes, cycle lanes, and all children should be bussed to school, not some.