M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Ruhanna

L1011 wrote: »

I see no need for such a detailed and wordy post over such a completely irrelevant bit of semantics

The roads purpose does not come from its name.

So the purpose of the road is what exactly?

This issue is not 'irrelevant semantics' in relation to a project that is said to cost at least 600 million.

Galway already has a ring road, which the two Galway councils managed to ruin by their ridiculous planning policies.

The old "outer bypass" project is dead and gone, not just because it was fatally flawed but also because the new project is about something very different (albeit with certain elements of the GCOB incorporated).

You always claimed that this road project was about traffic that was heading anywhere but the city.

The reality is that true bypass traffic is only a small proportion of the total, so in fact what this new ring road proposal is about is (a) shifting car commuters as fast as possible across the city from residential sprawl in the west to areas of concentrated employment in the east, as well as helping to route them from the vast swathes of 'rurban' development in the county into the city, and (b) opening up land for yet more car-dependent development in various areas.

With regard to (b) that is no secret or revelation because it was always the stated aim of various vested interests, and in any case recent political pronouncements (eg from Leo Varadkar) have made it quite clear that the plan is to "open up" the city for more development.

Of course, development is not inherently a problem (we all need houses, workplaces, services, schools and shops) but unsustainable development IS a problem, and in Ireland car-dependent sprawl is one of our favourite kinds of unsustainable development.

So it's rather amusing to see how ardent fans of the original bypass have quietly dropped their insistence that the road's purpose was to remove traffic that was not heading to the city, and that it had nothing at all to do with developers' dreams, and are now equally ardent about an outer ring road (or whatever it can be called) whose purpose is to accommodate current and future car commuting to and from current and future developments in and around the city.

No surprise there of course. For some, cars and motorways are what it's all about. It's their version of modernity and progress. More driving? Bring it on. More big new shiny roads? Bring 'em on.





Here's an example of the standard default assumption that car dependence is not only the current norm but must be expected to increase in future:

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Looks at grade to me.

This won't be a "ring road" for long as the city expands. It is very short sighted not to provide adequate capacity for extra lanes.

Ruhanna

Carol25 wrote: »

One would wonder what the agenda is of the people on here opposing a vital piece of infrastructure for a city that is in constant gridlock and failing to meet its potential because of this. Top of the list: New Bridge Needed, it has been for years. Wake up.

The city is not in a state of "constant gridlock".

In any case, if traffic is always at a standstill, why do so many commuters set out from their houses every morning at roughly the same time to drive alone in their cars over relatively short distances that could be walked or cycled?

Nationally, "over half of all daily trips were less than 3km in length, and over half of these short trips were made by car. Almost 40% of all trips to school / college were less than 2km in length and almost half of these short trips were made by car."

https://www.transportforireland.ie/household-travel-survey-2017-launched/

For example, 64500 people live within a 20 minute cycle of Eyre Square. Why are the vast majority of them driving, most of them solo most of the time?

Carol25

Ruhanna wrote: »

The city is not in a state of "constant gridlock".

In any case, if traffic is always at a standstill, why do so many commuters set out from their houses every morning at roughly the same time to drive alone in their cars over relatively short distances that could be walked or cycled?

Nationally, "over half of all daily trips were less than 3km in length, and over half of these short trips were made by car. Almost 40% of all trips to school / college were less than 2km in length and almost half of these short trips were made by car."

https://www.transportforireland.ie/household-travel-survey-2017-launched/

For example, 64500 people live within a 20 minute cycle of Eyre Square. Why are the vast majority of them driving, most of them solo most of the time?

Another post of rubbish and national statistics. Do you live in Galway? Because I can’t fathom how you’d dare claim the city isn’t in a total state of gridlock otherwise. It is, it is a fact. Maybe I should post some pictures of such a fact or maybe the daily AA Roadwatch traffic gridlock report for you? National statistics won’t alter the facts for Galway. My husband and all around us commute, they work in the city and surrounds. They shouldn’t be vilified for that, Galway needs a new bypass. The current road is just a city road with traffic lights. At least one if not two extra bridges are actually needed, and would be built if we were in the U.K. or the States, or indeed anywhere in Europe.
My question is this: what is your agenda to oppose the bypass? Are you opposed to the Apple factory in Athenry by any chance and progress in general?
If any people here support extra public transport solutions genuinely, they’d also support the bypass-which could actually cater for them. The currents roads and infrastructure cannot. Just look at all the transport options now from Galway to Dublin thanks to the motorway that someone else on here claimed was ‘empty’ and ‘not needed’. Again I just wonder what the actual agenda is from people on here spouting utter rubbish in their opposition of a long, overdue vital piece of infrastructure.

what_traffic

Carol25 wrote: »

National statistics won’t alter the facts for Galway.

What?

Carol25

what_traffic wrote: »

What?

Ok...didn’t realise I’d have to break this down further. Did you do averages in maths? It’s on the 6th class curriculum you know. National statistics do not apply locally. They’re an average, board range of statistics, an AVERAGE of the total data accumulated. There could be areas way over, or way under those statistics.
Are you opposed to the bypass? Or just actually not able to understand statistics and averages?

Ruhanna

Carol25 wrote: »

Another post of rubbish and national statistics. Do you live in Galway? Because I can’t fathom how you’d dare claim the city isn’t in a total state of gridlock otherwise. It is, it is a fact. Maybe I should post some pictures of such a fact or maybe the daily AA Roadwatch traffic gridlock report for you?

The National Household Travel Survey is a record of travel patterns around the country. The census used to have data on commuting distances, but for some obscure reason the CSO dropped that question (maybe because so many people had no idea how many kilometres they drove to work).

What we do know from previous censuses (censi?) is that a large proportion of people in Galway City live a relatively short distance from their place of work or education, yet most of them drive, usually alone.

For example, according to the 2010 Galway Walking & Cycling Strategy (gathering dust on a City Council shelf along with lots of similar plans that they had no notion of implementing) "52% of trips to work and education are less than 4km". Has that changed much, do you think? If so, what evidence can you provide?

AA Roadwatch is a part of the AA motorists' lobby group, and their traffic reports are based on what people text in via the mobile phones they routinely use while stuck in traffic jams of their own making. And the reports are cyclical, highlighting traffic delays at certain key times such as when Galway's particularly crazy school run is underway and when the equally crazy Friday afternoon scramble starts. What you often don't hear, or what many people may not necessarily register, is when traffic is relatively free flowing, such as when schools are closed.

Galway's alleged gridlock is not a constant, permanent or even daily occurrence. Traffic congestion is cyclical, and extreme jams occasionally occur due to crashes, roadworks, major events or other sporadic occurrences.

In any case, if the supposed gridlock is allegedly constant, why do so many people insist on driving into or across the city in an attempt to park as close as possible to their destination? This is typical of driver behaviour during large public events such as GAA (Pearse Stadium), soccer (Terryland) or rugby (College Road) matches, and is also seen on occasions such as the Novena and Cemetery Sunday. Who in their right mind consciously drives into "gridlock" around an event at which attendance is voluntary?

People have to go to work and school, of course, but what's crazy about their behaviour in that context is the sheer number who drive even short distances. I've seen children being driven literally a few hundred metres to primary and secondary school. And they are far from being outliers in terms of their school travel behaviour.

Carol25 wrote: »

National statistics won’t alter the facts for Galway. My husband and all around us commute, they work in the city and surrounds. They shouldn’t be vilified for that, Galway needs a new bypass. The current road is just a city road with traffic lights. At least one if not two extra bridges are actually needed, and would be built if we were in the U.K. or the States, or indeed anywhere in Europe.

None of us should assume that our individual travel habits are representative of the whole population. Are we to build a ring road costing hundreds of millions of Euro in order to facilitate the 52% of trips to work and education that are less than 4km, for example? If so, why?

And if you don't mind the question, what are the typical commute distances of your husband and the people 'all around you'?

One key fact is very important in this context: the vast majority of car trips in Galway do not have both origin and destination outside the city, which is what a bypass would serve. 35% of all car trips into and around Galway City cross the river, and only 3% of trips are actually bypassing the city (or trying to). 40% of all car trips start and finsh on the same side of the river.

The US and UK are terrible models for us. We have made a mess of spatial and transport planning by copying the worst of what they have done. Not surprisingly, Ireland has one of the highest levels of car dependence in the EU.

If you want to copy Europe, why can't we do what they're doing in towns of similar size in the Netherlands, or even learn from bigger cities like Copenhagen? What about providing free buses, like the do in Tallinn, Estonia?

Carol25 wrote: »

My question is this: what is your agenda to oppose the bypass? Are you opposed to the Apple factory in Athenry by any chance and progress in general?
If any people here support extra public transport solutions genuinely, they’d also support the bypass-which could actually cater for them. The currents roads and infrastructure cannot. Just look at all the transport options now from Galway to Dublin thanks to the motorway that someone else on here claimed was ‘empty’ and ‘not needed’. Again I just wonder what the actual agenda is from people on here spouting utter rubbish in their opposition of a long, overdue vital piece of infrastructure.

With regard to an "agenda", the possible reasons for opposing the proposed urban motorway/outer ring road/whatever it's called could include, for example:

• It will enable more car-dependent sprawl
• It will increase car traffic generally and in specific locations
• It will not cause modal switch and most likely will increase modal share for driving
• It will undermine the viability of public transport
• It will not reduce CO2 emissions and may even increase them
• It will create more concrete jungle
• It will be environmentally damaging
• It will cause noise pollution in formerly quiet neighbourhoods
• It will sever communities
• It is a very expensive and outdated approach to transport planning
• It will swallow up an awful lot of public money that could be put to better use.

spacetweek

The census surveys people on their commuting habits.
In the 2011 census, Galway was found to be the place in Ireland with the highest percentage of people who drive less than 1 kilometre. That is a 10-15 minute walk. If traffic is so bad in galway who are these people that are driving such short distances (and presumably hitting traffic as they do?)

Ruhanna

Carol25 wrote: »

Ok...didn’t realise I’d have to break this down further. Did you do averages in maths? It’s on the 6th class curriculum you know. National statistics do not apply locally. They’re an average, board range of statistics, an AVERAGE of the total data accumulated. There could be areas way over, or way under those statistics.
Are you opposed to the bypass? Or just actually not able to understand statistics and averages?

Speaking of statistics, can you provide one figure: what percentage of car trips start outside the city and end outside the city, crossing the Corrib in the process?

What is the source of your answer?

Ruhanna

spacetweek wrote: »

The census surveys people on their commuting habits.
In the 2011 census, Galway was found to be the place in Ireland with the highest percentage of people who drive less than 1 kilometre. That is a 10-15 minute walk. If traffic is so bad in galway who are these people that are driving such short distances (and presumably hitting traffic as they do?)

For some reason I just cannot find such travel data online, whether from the Census or from the Household Travel Survey. I'll have to take your word for it.

Are such details in the N6 Ring Road documentation?

With regard to short distance car trips, such driving behaviour is a root cause of traffic congestion in the city, but at the same time it's also an indicator that "gridlock" is neither permanent, nor widespread, nor utterly intolerable.

Given the high proportion of short car trips, why would anyone in their right mind choose to sit in "gridlock" when they could reach their destination much faster by walking or cycling? The reality is that people love their comfy cars, and they pass the time in slow-moving (not "gridlocked") traffic by listening to the radio (all those traffic reports), applying makeup, eating breakfast, reading the newspaper (print or online), doing the kids' homework, reading up on stuff for work, making phone calls (often for business purposes), texting or whatever.*

If they truly hated it, if they were truly gridlocked and unable to get to work on time day after day, at the risk of being fired, they would find some other way of travelling, or they would simply leave the house earlier.

What does the Census say about time of departure for the morning commute?





________________________________________________________

* All to be seen every day in Galway traffic. Just look around...

Ruhanna

L1011 wrote: »

Galway's existing ring road ceased to be capable of providing that function a decade and a half ago due to development. That can't be undone now. Motorway status protects new roads from that kind of development

The proposed ring road is intended to facilitate new development.

It has already been advertised as such.

The detailed plans for the road clearly show where such development is already occurring in the city and where it is likely to happen in the future.

It is completely unrealistic, and contrary to everything that has happened in this country so far with regard to sprawl, car dependence and developer-led "planning", to claim that this planned ring road will not lead to more traffic-generating development.

Carol25

What an obnoxious and arrogant bunch this anti bypass crowd are.
First of all everyone around us travels at least 15kn per day. Myself and husband are 25km each way. NO-ONE I know choses this, no one choses to sit in their ‘comfy cars’ by choice to do a days work, they do to get to their jobs and their children to school as it is the only option. How dare any of you suggest otherwise! How dare any of you suggest we set off with young children on dark country roads to schools by foot and then what hitch a ride to work, on roads not fit for purpose!
Secondly, someone posted co2 emissions as a reason to oppose a badly needed piece of infrastructure, does this person realise cars are slowly but surely becoming electrically powered, and autonomous also. Or do they not believe in electricity either or those pesky noisy electric windmills and other renewable energy sources.
Thirdly, another poster seems to think people work in Eyre Square? Do they realise most factories are surrounding Galway City Centre, does s/he even know where they are located or what factories/industry is in Galway?
Fourthly, I just don’t believe ‘most people in Galway travel in cars less than 1km to destination’ - funny how there’s zero proof of this posted, because it isn’t true. Does this take into around the 200,000 people living in Galway County or just the people not working who could walk their children to school as they’ve no where to be besides?
And finally, if any of you truly believed public transport was the solution, you’d be delighted the bypass was happening as it will help it develop proper, express routes to all major industrial estates.
I don’t want my children emigrating for jobs that should be here just because of a bunch of arrogant and opinionated keyboard warriors that no nothing of the situation because they’re not living it.

marno21

Ruhanna wrote: »

The proposed ring road is intended to facilitate new development.

It has already been advertised as such.

The detailed plans for the road clearly show where such development is already occurring in the city and where it is likely to happen in the future.

It is completely unrealistic, and contrary to everything that has happened in this country so far with regard to sprawl, car dependence and developer-led "planning", to claim that this planned ring road will not lead to more traffic-generating development.

Can you provide a source for this statement please.

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

Can you provide a source for this statement please.

Local papers for one are constantly carrying this message.

Just this week we have:

https://connachttribune.ie/plans-for-new-e120m-business-district-in-galway/
"
The location is seen as prime for such a development because of its proximity to the M6 and the proposed Galway City Ring Road.
"

Kermit.de.frog

The M50 done wonders for development in Dublin.

I would argue that road alone was primarily responsible for the economic boom of the 90's and early 2000's.

It opened everything up.

JupiterKid

Galway city is atrociously planned and the traffic gridlock is a legacy of that - sprawl type low density residential development and a horrific amount of one off rural housing in the commuter zone around this very small city. It simply isn’t sustainable in any way. Added to this is the majority of employment located on the fringes of the city - particularly on the East side of the city and too few bridges over the Corrib.

Galway very badly needs properly planned development involving a concentration of employment in the city centre where the best public transport links are and retail and cultural facilities are situated, an east-west dedicated busway serving areas of increased density, well planned out residential developments keeping new development within the already extensive contiguous built envelope of the city.

The ring road has a major role to play in this strategy. But given the gombeen idiots in the City Council and a construction industry unwilling to adopt decent residential design approaches, I don’t envisage any of this common sense development happening any time soon. :mad::(

Limerick74

Oral Hearing May 2019.

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2018/1105/1008832-galway-ring-road/

Aontachtoir

Limerick74 wrote: »

Oral Hearing May 2019.
The timeline is better than that - oral hearing lasting several weeks in the spring and May 7th as the target decision date.

serfboard

JupiterKid wrote: »

Galway city is atrociously planned and the traffic gridlock is a legacy of that - sprawl type low density residential development and a horrific amount of one off rural housing in the commuter zone around this very small city. It simply isn’t sustainable in any way. Added to this is the majority of employment located on the fringes of the city - particularly on the East side of the city and too few bridges over the Corrib.

As I've often said before: Ttake a city that's divided by a river. Put most of the employment on one side of the river (Mervue/Ballybrit/Parkmore), and most of the housing on the other (Newcastle/Rahoon/Salthill/Knocknacarra), provide an insufficient number of river crossings, and no direct public transport between them, and what do you think you're going to get?

Oh yeah, and do this in the wettest, windiest city in the country, just in case people were thinking of cycling ...

marno21

May .. which will become August .. then November

This will drag on for a year by the time all the usual suspects have had their go at delaying the project.

flatty

Can anyone see this not going ahead?

Reuben1210

flatty wrote: »

Can anyone see this not going ahead?

Nope

Ruhanna

Carol25 wrote: »

What an obnoxious and arrogant bunch this anti bypass crowd are.
First of all everyone around us travels at least 15kn per day. Myself and husband are 25km each way. NO-ONE I know choses this, no one choses to sit in their ‘comfy cars’ by choice to do a days work, they do to get to their jobs and their children to school as it is the only option. How dare any of you suggest otherwise! How dare any of you suggest we set off with young children on dark country roads to schools by foot and then what hitch a ride to work, on roads not fit for purpose!

A lot to unpack there, so let's break it down into manageable chunks.

Since you're referring to "dark country roads", it appears that you, your family and "everyone around" are resident in a rural area 15-25 km from Galway City, and presumably not in a village or town.

Also, it appears that you live there not by choice ("NO-ONE I know chooses this") but somehow by chance or by circumstances outside your control.

If you and "everyone around" you were born and reared in the countryside, and your parents (who you didn't choose) and their parents likewise, then why has your community developed to that size yet you have no street lighting and your children cannot walk or cycle to school? How has the community developed to that extent and yet has no public transport? Are there no local schools? No school transport?

Why are the residences 15-25 km from employment? It's a rural area: what rural employment do the rural dwellers have? Farming has changed massively over the past 50 years and more. Many of us, myself included, are the children of people who left their small family farms and moved to the towns and cities because that's where the jobs and opportunities were. And the schools, and hospitals, and amenities, and maybe even public transport links.

Or were you, and many if not most people around you, born in a town or in Galway City (perhaps of parents who were once farmers, as so many Irish people were many decades ago), and then you built or bought a house in a rural area, 15-25 km from employment, where the streets were not lit, and there were no schools, and your children could not walk anywhere? Because we know that's what literally hundreds of thousands of people have done all over Ireland, with County Galway being an especially notable example of such development.

Even though the inexorable trend in Ireland, as elsewhere in the world, has been towards urbanisation, Ireland is an outlier in Europe with regard to the scale of "one-off" housing in the countryside, a misnomer for sure, since there were 450,000 of such houses built by 2010, and the trend didn't stop there. According to the Irish Planning Institute, "between 2010 and 2013 one-off units represented between 30% and 52% of all housing units granted permission each year". Almost half of all houses built as recently as 2016 were one-off and the ongoing settlement patterns "indicate a growing spread of commuter-led development in settlements" (Irish Planning Institute Submission on the National Planning Framework, 2017).

In that context, what is a road that is "not fit for purpose"? Is it like one of those old country boreens through farmland where numerous "one-off" houses have been built, where the ancient hedgerows and stone walls have been ripped out, and where the road surface has been destroyed by constant traffic that the boreen was never designed for?

Where is all that traffic heading? Why is a "bypass" relevant to it? And why do we feel in Ireland that we have "no choice" but to organise our housing, our schools, our employment and our transport in that way?

And why can't the County Council fix the boreens, since they apparently have enough money to build a motorway -- in the city?

Carol25 wrote: »

Secondly, someone posted co2 emissions as a reason to oppose a badly needed piece of infrastructure, does this person realise cars are slowly but surely becoming electrically powered, and autonomous also. Or do they not believe in electricity either or those pesky noisy electric windmills and other renewable energy sources.

Providing broadband to the hundreds of thousands of 'rural' dwellers in Ireland is hugely challenging in terms of costs and resources. Imagine trying to do the same with recharging infrastructure for electric cars.

Electric cars won't address the problem of traffic congestion.

Autonomous vehicles are pie in the sky. Do people really believe Ireland will soon see the day when autonomous vehicles in their tens of thousands will trundle down the perfectly surfaced boreens to join the free-flowing traffic on the shiny urban motorways?

And why do rural dwellers regard wind generators as "pesky"?

Carol25 wrote: »

Thirdly, another poster seems to think people work in Eyre Square? Do they realise most factories are surrounding Galway City Centre, does s/he even know where they are located or what factories/industry is in Galway?

Not sure what that's about, but an earlier post pointed out that 64500 people live within a 20 minute cycle of Eyre Square, the point being to illustrate that thousands of people in the city are driving short distances that could be shifted to other modes, unclogging the roads for essential traffic.

Two key issues in Galway with regard to transport planning (and resultant car traffic congestion) is that there are large residential areas in the west and large employment areas in the east (plus some in the centre), along with a huge influx of county dwellers heading to destinations in Parkmore, Ballybrit, Ballybane, UHG, NUIG etc. Only 3% of car traffic is bypassing the city entirely, and 40% of all car trips don't cross the river. Shift a significant percentage of trips under 5-8 km to other modes, and trips over 8-10 km to public transport, and you achieve a significant reduction in traffic congestion.

Carol25 wrote: »

Fourthly, I just don’t believe ‘most people in Galway travel in cars less than 1km to destination’ - funny how there’s zero proof of this posted, because it isn’t true. Does this take into around the 200,000 people living in Galway County or just the people not working who could walk their children to school as they’ve no where to be besides?

What was said was that "in the 2011 census, Galway was found to be the place in Ireland with the highest percentage of people who drive less than 1 kilometre."

Carol25 wrote: »

And finally, if any of you truly believed public transport was the solution, you’d be delighted the bypass was happening as it will help it develop proper, express routes to all major industrial estates. I don’t want my children emigrating for jobs that should be here just because of a bunch of arrogant and opinionated keyboard warriors that no nothing of the situation because they’re not living it.

Of course we want proper public transport. It has never been tried in Galway. Where is the Bus Rapid Transit? Where is the orbital bus route for commuters? Where is the city-wide network of connected bus lanes and bus priority measures? Where are the bus shelters? Where is the enforcement of traffic regulations regarding access to bus lanes and bus stops? The fact is that Galway City Council has sat on its publicly-salaried and expensively-pensioned arse for decades while neglect public transport, because organising it is too much trouble and because they have been waiting since at least the mid-1990s for a "bypass" to rescue them from their own incompetence.

By the way, when a ring road is built, who will use public transport, and why?

And of course we're living in it. That's why we care.

Ruhanna

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Nope

Yep.

marno21 wrote: »

May .. which will become August .. then November

This will drag on for a year by the time all the usual suspects have had their go at delaying the project.

This could go on for much longer, as the various democratic processes take their due course.

serfboard wrote: »

As I've often said before: Ttake a city that's divided by a river. Put most of the employment on one side of the river (Mervue/Ballybrit/Parkmore), and most of the housing on the other (Newcastle/Rahoon/Salthill/Knocknacarra), provide an insufficient number of river crossings, and no direct public transport between them, and what do you think you're going to get?

Oh yeah, and do this in the wettest, windiest city in the country, just in case people were thinking of cycling ...

Why is has no orbital bus route been provided for decades? Why are the Council, other State agencies and various vested interests opposed to an orbital bus service?

The weather argument is the standard excuse. There are already significant numbers of people cycling to work and education in Galway, just in case anybody was imagining that there weren't.

Ruhanna

JupiterKid wrote: »

Galway city is atrociously planned and the traffic gridlock is a legacy of that

Galway very badly needs properly planned development...

The ring road has a major role to play in this strategy. But given the gombeen idiots in the City Council and a construction industry unwilling to adopt decent residential design approaches, I don’t envisage any of this common sense development happening any time soon. :mad::(

The ring road will seriously undermine the coherent anti-sprawl strategy that you say is needed.

what_traffic

serfboard wrote: »

As I've often said before: Take a city that's divided by a river. Put most of the employment on one side of the river (Mervue/Ballybrit/Parkmore), and most of the housing on the other (Newcastle/Rahoon/Salthill/Knocknacarra), provide an insufficient number of river crossings, and no direct public transport between them, and what do you think you're going to get?

You forgot the elephant in the room.
Its the County Car Traffic that is the major cause of the Car traffic in Galway City. Places like Newcastle, Salthill and Rahoon actually have high* no's walking, cycling to work/school . Public transport is not great but could be improved.
Agree on the direct public transport between East and West. That would certainly improve the public transport figures in these area's

*High - in a Galway City/County Context

Carol25

Wow firstly RIP rural Ireland with Ruhanna in charge. RIP all rural schools, parishes, communities, etc. We all need to up sticks and move into the overcrowded and over priced city market ASAP. Also are you seriously suggesting every single boreen in the country should have street lights? You do realise that would be terrible for the environment that you seem to be so concerned about.

Secondly, you make the claim that autonomous cars are pie in the sky? You must not be informed well enough in this area as they’re just 15 years away max and do not need perfectly smooth roads do drive on. You mention overcrowded charge points as a reason to oppose electric cars. How will they be overcrowded when they’ll be at every filling station, you will be able to charge at your own house, and numerous other points besides.

You mentioned urban sprawl being a reason to oppose the Galway bypass. The ring road under the current design, is running close to Galway city due to planning restrictions, it will not cause ‘sprawl’ to the degree you suggest.

And finally, I want examples from people on here suggesting public transport alternatives, and maps to demonstrate how it would work on current roads. Bare in mind you won’t be able to knock off any lanes on a single road in existence as they’re barely wide enough for the vehicles currently on them.
I’m curious to know, would you have built the M50 in Dublin or the newer M17 running north to south?

P.S. I was being sarcastic when referring to windmillls being ‘pesky’, hence why it had inverted commas. What I meant was people oppose windmills and other forms of renewable energy but still want to burn up the ESB no questions asked.

what_traffic

Ruhanna wrote: »

This could go on for much longer, as the various democratic processes take their due course.

Very true - ABP is just one step in the process. Just look at Dublin City Council who look like they are going to challenge recent ABP decision re College Green.
Can easily see this going to the High Court post any ABP decision.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Very true - ABP is just one step in the process. Just look at Dublin City Council who look like they are going to challenge recent ABP decision re College Green.
Can easily see this going to the High Court post any ABP decision.

Following article published today
"
One in ten planning decisions in Galway appealed last year
"
https://connachttribune.ie/one-in-ten-planning-decisions-in-galway-appealed-last-year-220/
"
The rate of appeals was 11.4%, which is higher that the national average of 7.3%.
"

WillieMason

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The M50 done wonders for development in Dublin.

I would argue that road alone was primarily responsible for the economic boom of the 90's and early 2000's.

It opened everything up.

Very true.

Ruhanna

Carol25 wrote: »

1. Wow firstly RIP rural Ireland with Ruhanna in charge. RIP all rural schools, parishes, communities, etc. We all need to up sticks and move into the overcrowded and over priced city market ASAP.

2. Also are you seriously suggesting every single boreen in the country should have street lights? You do realise that would be terrible for the environment that you seem to be so concerned about.

3. Secondly, you make the claim that autonomous cars are pie in the sky? You must not be informed well enough in this area as they’re just 15 years away max and do not need perfectly smooth roads do drive on. You mention overcrowded charge points as a reason to oppose electric cars. How will they be overcrowded when they’ll be at every filling station, you will be able to charge at your own house, and numerous other points besides.

4. You mentioned urban sprawl being a reason to oppose the Galway bypass. The ring road under the current design, is running close to Galway city due to planning restrictions, it will not cause ‘sprawl’ to the degree you suggest.

5. And finally, I want examples from people on here suggesting public transport alternatives, and maps to demonstrate how it would work on current roads. Bare in mind you won’t be able to knock off any lanes on a single road in existence as they’re barely wide enough for the vehicles currently on them.
I’m curious to know, would you have built the M50 in Dublin or the newer M17 running north to south?

1. So which category of rural dweller are you? Seed, breed and generation? Or urban 'migrant' fleeing the city to get more bang for your buck in terms of square metres of house and land? It matters hugely in the context of the proposed ring road for Galway, because the recurring complaint from people resident in the county who commute to the city is that lack or roads is what is causing the problem, whereas in fact the real problem is our car-dependent society, a major part of which is our strange penchant for 'rurban' living.

2. You were the one who mentioned "setting off with children on dark country roads". If the dark roads are not a problem for you, why mention them in that way? If there are thousands of people living in one-off houses down dark country roads that are "not fit for purpose" (your own words again) where their children cannot walk or cycle safely to school and where no public transport is available, to school or anywhere else, then we need to ask ourselves as a society how we have come to create such a situation as well as question why we need to spend several hundred million Euro to accommodate it by bulldozing a motorway through communities in Galway City, demolishing forty family homes in the process.

3. Good luck with the autonomous cars on these roads. Maybe in 15 years' time Galway County Council will have autonomous trucks filling in the potholes?

4. The selected route for the proposed ring road (RR) is based on a number of considerations. Firstly, the outer bypass failed because the plan contravened EU directives. The new road is intended to get around those restrictions. Secondly, documentation for the RR specifically refers to its intended purpose being to facilitate commuter traffic by car across the river. Only 3% of traffic through Galway is 'bypassable'. Thirdly, council officials have said that they want a road to facilitate car travel from suburbia ("if it's too far out nobody (ie the residents of suburbia) will use it"). Fourthly, the RR will be routed through currently undeveloped land, and both politicians and commercially interested parties have spoken about how it will "free up" or "open up" greenfield sites for new development. The anticipated development will be car-dependent, otherwise known as sprawl.

5. If the existing roads in the city are wide enough for space-wasting private cars, then of course they're wide-enough for far more space-efficient buses and bikes. Can you identify any specific roads where "you won’t be able to knock off any lanes" for public transport, walking and cycling?