Making an offer

TommyT

We are thinking of making an offer on an old country cottage. It has been lying idle for some time, but its in an ideal location for us and a lot of my friends are out of work builders. We made an appointment to see the property last week for tomorrow, Nov 6th, as that was the first date that both of us were free, but now it seems that someone has made an offer above the asking price. I am thinking its a bit suss and I was wondering is the agent obliged to show us this offer or do we have to take his word for it.

Trampas

Don't think they can show you the offer.

He could be bluffing.

Offer what you want and if he says no then tell him you your number

The_Conductor

It does sound suspicious.

From talking to estate agents down the country- the only property moving at the moment is the lower end of the First Time Buyer market- principally below the 200k level.

Tell the estate agent what you're willing to pay- and don't negotiate with him. There is a shocking amount of property on the market- you will find somewhere equally as appealing to you sooner or later.

Remember the estate agent is employed by the seller to achieve the maximum possible price for their property. He/she is not your friend.........

JuliusCaesar

TommyT wrote: »

it seems that someone has made an offer above the asking price. I am thinking its a bit suss .

Do not believe a ward that the EA (Estate Agent) says. If his lips are moving, he may be lying. If his lips aren't moving, he may be lying.

The higher the price he gets for the property, the more commission he earns.

Never tell an EA what your maximum price is.

Don't believe in any other offers they tell you about. Sometimes, it's useful to get a friend to ring the EA and express an interest in the same property and see what the EA says.

Offer below what you think a reasonable price is, to leave room for negotiation.

Only go to what you think the property is worth to you. Then walk.

(I offered 320K for a house; the seller declined. I then bought another house, and the first EA got back to me asking would I reconsider. I said no, I was happier with my new house. The first house was sold in the end for 304K.)

Remember there are still a lot of sellers going, well, it was worth X a year ago, and who are reluctant to lower their price. Let them wait. The longer the wait, the lower any offers will be.

jdivision

I can tell you now OP that there's a huge number of people who have apparently made offers over the asking price for properties. Only problem is that they're all in the estate agents mind. Go to see the house, tell them call you back when they're ready to negotiate. Should take a week or two and the offer will mysteriously have been withdrawn and lo and behold you're "back in the race". This is standard practice at the moment.

TommyT

I do think the offer is made up, but I have no way of knowing. The property has been for sale for some time an we are quite interested, but only at what we think its worth. Time for my best poker face, but I am crap at poker and my other half really wants this place.

The_Conductor

TommyT wrote: »

I do think the offer is made up, but I have no way of knowing. The property has been for sale for some time an we are quite interested, but only at what we think its worth. Time for my best poker face, but I am crap at poker and my other half really wants this place.

Don't let your other half have any interactions with the estate agent- full stop. Once you get emotionally attached to a property your grasp of reality changes a little...... you will be taken to the cleaners- by the likes of estate agents. Make a reasonable offer of what the property is worth to you- ignoring the proported "offer" and wait. See what happens.

AARRRGH

TommyT wrote: »

We made an appointment to see the property last week for tomorrow, Nov 6th, as that was the first date that both of us were free, but now it seems that someone has made an offer above the asking price.

Wow, that's quite a coincidence isn't it!

Don't fall for it - stick to your original price.

ntlbell

Write what what you think it's worth on a bit of paper pop it in the letterbox with your phone number.

Add on the note the offer is open for a max of 10 working days.

If the EA is at it you will get a call..

ZYX

TommyT wrote: »

We are thinking of making an offer on an old country cottage. It has been lying idle for some time, but its in an ideal location for us and a lot of my friends are out of work builders. We made an appointment to see the property last week for tomorrow, Nov 6th, as that was the first date that both of us were free, but now it seems that someone has made an offer above the asking price. I am thinking its a bit suss and I was wondering is the agent obliged to show us this offer or do we have to take his word for it.

This type of thing regularly happens ie people making offers at same time even if house has been on the market for some time. If you want house I would assume EA is telling the truth. Look at house and decide how much the house is worth to you. Then stick to that figure. If you get it for less great just don't go above.

Karmaa

This happened to me before, the auctioneer is not obliged to show or tell you anything about the other bidding party.
I and my then partner had to keep outbidding the other party and all along I thought it was just the auctioneer trying to up the price on the house for their client.....to this day we will never know.
It is illegal for them to do so if ever found out though!!

rockbeer

This is why you need to decide what you're willing to pay and make sure the agent knows that you will stick to it. He can't play you off against an imaginary bidder if it puts the sale at risk, not in this market when buyers are so thin on the ground. Name your price and stick to it: if you get it, great. If not, there are plenty more houses out there.

And if the agent swears you've been outbid tell him thanks very much and to get in touch if the other sale falls through. Chances are you'll get a call before too long if you were being taken for a ride.

astrofool

ZYX wrote: »

This type of thing regularly happens ie people making offers at same time even if house has been on the market for some time. If you want house I would assume EA is telling the truth. Look at house and decide how much the house is worth to you. Then stick to that figure. If you get it for less great just don't go above.

Never assume an EA is telling the truth.

Unfortunately, in Ireland, EA's get away with misleading buyers and sellers due to lack of transparency, and it really does become a game of poker.

However, the lay offs and pay cuts in their industry is a karma of sorts, just remember to treat them as sub human, and you'll be fine

Climate Expert

Tell them thats ok and the seller should take the other offer. When they get back to you in two weeks make sure to knock 10% off your original offer.

ZYX

astrofool wrote: »

Never assume an EA is telling the truth.

Unfortunately, in Ireland, EA's get away with misleading buyers and sellers due to lack of transparency, and it really does become a game of poker.

However, the lay offs and pay cuts in their industry is a karma of sorts, just remember to treat them as sub human, and you'll be fine

But if they actually want the house then they have to believe the EA. Otherwise they will lose it if EA is telling the truth.

dan_d

They can't tell you the offer.They are probably just telling you that.Offer what you think is reasonable, under no circumstances tell the agent what you can afford, and see what happens.Call his bluff.

astrofool

% Chance of EA telling the truth = 1%

Am I being generous here?

the_syco

TommyT wrote: »

an old country cottage

How old? IF it's thatched, and beyond X amount of years old (forget the exact amount), you'll have to keep it thatched, and maintained, as it may be a protected structure. Happened to an aunt down the country.

dr ro

knock at least 10% off your original figure, WHEN Ea gets back to you. They are chancers and have nothing to lose by operating like this, and lots to gain.

miju

truth is you can never tell if the offer is genuine or not. To give you a recent example just last week I bought a house.

The EA said they had an offer alredy at just 5k under the asking price, unfased we threw in a bid 100k under the asking and suprisingly the higher bidder disappeared and our offer was accepted.

Moral of the story is never believe a word they say and always be prepared to walk away

mags16

I'm not an EA but I sometimes do a bit of work for one of the big Dublin companies. I agree with most of the advice given. Offer what you think the house is worth and what you can afford. If the EA is telling the truth you lose it, there is a big chance that the sale will fall through. It is happening all the time - a bid is accepted, the buyer can't sell own house/mortgage approval denied/etc, the sale falls through.

mrgaa1

Ask the EA if you can get the seller to talk to you direct as you are genuinely interested. Of course the EA and the seller may be in cahoots - they may not - but you will at least know the lie of the land. If the seller wants out he'll want to talk.

jmayo

TommyT wrote: »

I do think the offer is made up, but I have no way of knowing. The property has been for sale for some time an we are quite interested, but only at what we think its worth. Time for my best poker face, but I am crap at poker and my other half really wants this place.

As smccarick pointed out do not let the other half talk to the EA.
The EA will realise how much you want it and then you are screwed.
If you go visit it make sure she doesn't get chatting with EA.
Try and keep emotion out of it.

ZYX wrote: »

But if they actually want the house then they have to believe the EA. Otherwise they will lose it if EA is telling the truth.

So you should just go and give EA whatever they want even though it is a buyers market. To use old phrase "there are plenty more fish in the sea". Property is just not moving.

dr ro wrote: »

knock at least 10% off your original figure, WHEN Ea gets back to you. They are chancers and have nothing to lose by operating like this, and lots to gain.

Great idea, if or more probably when he gets back to you, lower your offer.
Your offer lasts a finite time and if he does not come back again within that time lower it further.

A lot of sellers and indeed a lot of property owners in this country are living in cloud cuckoo land, they still believe their property is worth x, just like it was a few years ago when Johnny up the road sold his for that.
Thus they refuse to sell at much below x. They knock a few thousand off and then they think that people should be breaking down their door.

Added to this the EAs are a bunch of lying coniving gits who are trying to make as much money from the deal as possible. Remember it is in their interest to sell at as high a price as possible.

Here is an idea, can you find out who actually owns the property and bypass the EA, cut the money out and go straight to the organ grinder.

kmick

Someone offered above the asking price lol - that must be a first in 2008. Tell the estate agent you are out and wait for a call.

Patrickof

jmayo wrote: »

Added to this the EAs are a bunch of lying coniving gits who are trying to make as much money from the deal as possible. Remember it is in their interest to sell at as high a price as possible.

Here is an idea, can you find out who actually owns the property and bypass the EA, cut the money out and go straight to the organ grinder.

It maybe in their interest to get the highest price possible, but they're also not going to lose a sale for the sake of 100 euro commission (ie extra 10K at 1%).

A lot of vendors do not want to talk to the purchaser - thats why they hire an EA and in most cases the EA is still entitled to be paid even if you deal directly with the vendor.

rockbeer

jmayo wrote: »

A lot of sellers and indeed a lot of property owners in this country are living in cloud cuckoo land, they still believe their property is worth x, just like it was a few years ago when Johnny up the road sold his for that.
Thus they refuse to sell at much below x. They knock a few thousand off and then they think that people should be breaking down their door.

Here is an idea, can you find out who actually owns the property and bypass the EA, cut the money out and go straight to the organ grinder.

Indeed, this is good advice. It's long past the point where agents are working in owners interests: by collectively burying their heads in the sand over the true state of the market they make selling a house almost impossible. Of course, owners are only too happy to collude with anyone who tells them things aren't really all that bad and their property is worth more than it really is, and so the cycle goes on.

As I said on another thread recently, we got sick of all this nonsense after wasting a year and fecked the agents out of it. We're selling privately now. I expect to see more and more people who are serious about selling do the same in the next while, as its the only way to price the house realistically. It's still going to be a nightmare, but at least we can make it clear to people that - as jmayo puts it - they are talking straight to the organ grinder and can negotiate properly without somebody's percentage getting in the way.

Are there any EAs out there who understand what's happening? You would think hunger might help wake them up to reality. Do any EAs read this forum?

Tom123

The EA is lying.

This is 2008 not 2006. Who makes an opening offer above the asking price these days?

TommyT

Its obvious to me that the EA is lying through his teeth, but she who must be obeyed has already got an architecht to look at the place (FFS). I have managed to keep herself and the EA apart as that would be costly. To be honest, it is realistically priced and I would be willing to put a sensible offer on it, but I would like to know if the offer made this week was genuine.
I have found out that a mate knows the EA quite well, so I`ll be calling round to the mates on Sunday with a nice bottle of wine and I`ll get him to see how the land lies.

Tom123

TommyT wrote: »

Its obvious to me that the EA is lying through his teeth, but she who must be obeyed has already got an architecht to look at the place (FFS). I have managed to keep herself and the EA apart as that would be costly. To be honest, it is realistically priced and I would be willing to put a sensible offer on it, but I would like to know if the offer made this week was genuine.
I have found out that a mate knows the EA quite well, so I`ll be calling round to the mates on Sunday with a nice bottle of wine and I`ll get him to see how the land lies.

If you aren't willing to walk away from this house then the EA has you exactly where they want you.
If you believe, because of what this EA has told you or otherwise, that this house will be suddenly snapped up then you will pay more than it is worth.

Jo King

jmayo wrote: »

Here is an idea, can you find out who actually owns the property and bypass the EA, cut the money out and go straight to the organ grinder.

The EA is entitled to his commission as he has introduced you to the property. If you contact the seller directly, the EA may be told about it by the seller which will mar your relationship with the EA. If the sale closes behind the EAs back he may well sue the seller for his fee.

ravendude

Jo King wrote: »

If you contact the seller directly, the EA may be told about it by the seller which will mar your relationship with the EA.

boo hoo