Wafer Cup Thursday

Xavi6

Matchday 2

Metalist v Hertha
Spartak Moskva v Udinese
Stuttgart v Partizan
Lech Poznań v Nancy
Feyenoord v CSKA Moskva
Wolfsburg v Heerenveen
Benfica v Galatasaray
Ajax v Žilina
Man. City v Twente
Milan v Braga
Racing v Schalke
Saint-Etienne v Rosenborg
Slavia v Aston Villa
Standard v Sevilla
Tottenham v Dinamo Zagreb
Valencia v København


I expect another, how you shay, frustrating night for City. Going for 1-1 draw. Elano to score us with their goal coming from a Dunnie OG following a cruel deflection off McClaren's brolly.

Mr.Nice Guy

Xavi6 wrote: »

I expect another, how you shay, frustrating night for City. Going for 1-1 draw. Elano to score us with their goal coming from a Dunnie OG following a cruel deflection off McClaren's brolly.

Really? I think City will thump them. They need to bounce back and I reckon it might be something like 3-0. I think 'Arry will get a good result with Spurs as well. I'll say 2-0 for them. I'd say Villa might have difficulty and will probably draw as they've been poor away. Ajax, Milan and Valencia I'd expect to win comfortably.

bigstar

dunnes out so we should be grand

Xavi6

Is it confirmed yet? I know he has fluid on the knee. I'd rest him anyway and play Nervous Neddy at centre half.

My level of optimism has diminished significantly, though at least we're at home for this one.

bigstar

apart from the pompey game though we havent played a decent side at home and won, these games against twente and spurs will be very telling.
but heresh to a fantashtic game ya.

One Cold Hand

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'd say Villa might have difficulty and will probably draw as they've been poor away.

Eh? Villa have won 2 and drawn 1 away this season. Only poor game was away against Odense. But I do see this as a tough one, a draw I reckon.

Spurs and Citeh should win, but no guarantees any more!

Time Magazine

Is the Villa match on d'telly?

eirebhoy

bigstar wrote: »

dunnes out so we should be grand

Award for most fickle set of fans in the world? That's a few City fans I've heard slag off Dunne this season. On the evidence of his previous 2 seasons as well as his time with Ireland he's top class. No doubt.

Xavi6

eirebhoy wrote: »

Award for most fickle set of fans in the world? That's a few City fans I've heard slag off Dunne this season. On the evidence of his previous 2 seasons as well as his time with Ireland he's top class. No doubt.

Indeed, but he does cost us a lot of games, and players are judged on mistakes more than anything else.

Nobody denies what Dunne has done for us but it just might time for a changing of the guard. As one fan put it - he was great when we had Distin, Barton, Sinclair and Macken but if we want to be in the top 4 then we need a change.

bigstar

excuse me, fickle? was i fickle when i went to see us play burnley in the second division, or gillingham in the second division play off at wembley. was i fickle when we got relegated then promoted the relegated again. take that stick out of your arse and lighten up. the only thing keeping city fans going over the last few years is a sense of humour and if any of our players, even our player of the year for the past four years and captain, scores two og's in two weeks then ill have a joke at their expense if i want, go to politics forum if you cant take a joke

bigstar

disagree there xavi, i think someone else with dunne who has a bit more intelligence would make a great defence. dunne throws himself at everthing he gets a fair few ogs cause hes frequently the last defender. id like to see a new ( dare i say it) ferdinand type centre half in there with him to compliment him. i think richards and dunne are two alike and richards frequently gets caught out of position

eirebhoy

Dunne is probably a tough a defender as any striker in the world might face today. That's how good he is. Vucinic is running amok for Montengro and Dunne didn't give him an inch.

As for his intelligence, he's probably the most important player Ireland have had since Roy Keane. I know the difference in standard between Dunne and the rest of the Irish centre halves is huge but he is turning a pretty mediocre Irish defence into a very good defence.

Micah Richards can't speak highly enough of him. He says he's as good as Terry or Ferdinand.

Xavi6 said a couple of years ago that he wouldn't swap Dunne for Carragher, Ferdinand and 95% of defenders. In fact he said Dunne was a million times better than Carragher. Since then Dunne has only really been getting anywhere near the credit he deserves and Xavi wants him shipped out.

Dunne has only gotten better since those comments. He's not going through the best of form but that's where fickleness comes into play. He's admitted himself he needs to transfer his recent international form to club level.

bigstar - fickleness doesn't mean you desert your team in the bad times. Many people support poor teams.

Eirebear

Meh, its a mickey mouse cup anyway......;)

shoutman

Obviously MON thinks we can overcome these lads without a full strength side.

Also its on Setanta for anyone interested.

_blank_

John Carew must have eaten some jam sandwiches for lunch

roryc

Any stream for the City game? all the justin.tv streams aren't working afaik

Oh, and wtf robinho, you can bang in a hat-trick but as soon as I buy you for my fantasy football team the goals dry up, now you bang one in in the Cup

matrim

Win for Villa.

Not a convincing performance, but it's still and win and one more will definitely see us through to the next round.

mike65

Spurs 4 - 0 Zagreb :eek: How crap a coach was Ramos?

Mike

SuprSi

mike65 wrote: »

Spurs 4 - 0 Zagreb :eek: How crap a coach was Ramos?

Mike

Hat-trick for Bent too

OPENROAD

What time did the Valencia game kick off at?

amacachi

17 minutes left in the Valencia match. Anyone got a stream?

bigstar

eirebhoy wrote: »

Dunne is probably a tough a defender as any striker in the world might face today. That's how good he is. Vucinic is running amok for Montengro and Dunne didn't give him an inch.

As for his intelligence, he's probably the most important player Ireland have had since Roy Keane. I know the difference in standard between Dunne and the rest of the Irish centre halves is huge but he is turning a pretty mediocre Irish defence into a very good defence.

Micah Richards can't speak highly enough of him. He says he's as good as Terry or Ferdinand.

Xavi6 said a couple of years ago that he wouldn't swap Dunne for Carragher, Ferdinand and 95% of defenders. In fact he said Dunne was a million times better than Carragher. Since then Dunne has only really been getting anywhere near the credit he deserves and Xavi wants him shipped out.

Dunne has only gotten better since those comments. He's not going through the best of form but that's where fickleness comes into play. He's admitted himself he needs to transfer his recent international form to club level.

bigstar - fickleness doesn't mean you desert your team in the bad times. Many people support poor teams.

many people do support poor teams but im not one of them, unless you think there are only four teams or so in the PL that arent poor. and i know what fickle means, but making a joke at a player has nothing to do with being fickle, maybe you should look the meaning of humour. dunne scores more goals against us than he does for us and if you cant find the humour in that then i feel sorry for you.

amacachi

****in Valencia ¬_¬

Xavi6

eirebhoy wrote: »

Xavi6 said a couple of years ago that he wouldn't swap Dunne for Carragher, Ferdinand and 95% of defenders. In fact he said Dunne was a million times better than Carragher. Since then Dunne has only really been getting anywhere near the credit he deserves and Xavi wants him shipped out.

Dunne has only gotten better since those comments. He's not going through the best of form but that's where fickleness comes into play. He's admitted himself he needs to transfer his recent international form to club level.

I'm sorry but that's just not the case, and anyone who has watched City on a regular basis can attest to that.

He was at his best about three years ago when he single handedly got us a 0-0 draw at Stamford Bridge, or when he was marking Van Nistelrooy and Henry out of games. He is not at that same ridiculously high standard anymore.

The decision to give him Player of the Year last season was quite frankly baffling. He wasn't even in the top 5, behind the likes of Hart, Petrov and Corluka. I can link to threads/posts from City forums if you want that show the fans' amazement at the decision.

Dunne is only getting credit now because City are no longer struggling as a club. When we were flirting with relegation Dunne was just another Premiership defender. Now he is playing worse (not bad) in a better team so consequently both the teams' and his performances have attracted more attention.

No one has more respect for Dunne than me but when things aren't right then sometimes you have to be open and honest. Truth be told Micah Richards has had a woeful start to the season as well, and there have been calls for him to get a rest too and be replaced by Ben Haim or Onouha.

The fact is that while Dunne was untouchable 2 years ago he isn't now.

eirebhoy

Xavi6 wrote: »

He was at his best about three years ago when he single handedly got us a 0-0 draw at Stamford Bridge, or when he was marking Van Nistelrooy and Henry out of games. He is not at that same ridiculously high standard anymore.

I'm very surprised you think he's gone downhill in the last couple of years. I don't know if he's just terribly inconsistent because he must have put in at least 20 absolutely superb performances for City last season.

bigstar wrote:

dunne scores more goals against us than he does for us and if you cant find the humour in that then i feel sorry for you.

Dunne has scored 6 og's in the premiership. Ferdinand and Carragher are both on 5.

Sorry if I think you lot are a fickle bunch but I don't think it's a coincidence that Dunne isn't in great form for City atm.

Xavi6

eirebhoy wrote: »

I'm very surprised you think he's gone downhill in the last couple of years. I don't know if he's just terribly inconsistent because he must have put in at least 20 absolutely superb performances for City last season.

20 is a bit of an exaggeration. Obviously the two derby games were stand out performances but there's no way he had another 18 superb games. Sure apart from the game OT no one had a good game after January! And that has continued this season for both Dunne and Richards.

Look at tonights first goal. They were 22 yards apart when it happened. 22 yards! What sort of central defensive partnership is that at the top level?

I watch every City game pretty much and I don't like to criticise any of our players but a spade needs to be called a spade sometimes, especially when people are bigging up someone who isn't really all that at the moment.

Just a couple of posts from City fans on him -

When a player should be in his prime, and when a player is in his prime are two very different things. Unfortunately I think Richard has passed this milestone prematurely.

Richard Dunne was great for city from 2001-2007 playing with the likes of Barton, Stephen Jordan, Danny Mills, Steve Mcmananman ect

Richard Dunne is not great for city from 2007 to the present day playing with the likes of Robinho, Elano, SWP ect

He is out of his depth now and is ruining his work that we have admired over the years.

At t'end of the day, he has become inconsistant and a liability. He WAS our best player in the past, he was a rock in defence in the past and on odd days he shows just why. However of late he his not good enough for the current squad, captain or not I would prefer to see him on the bench, Kompany moving into back four, Richards partner him there, Zab on the right and ball pref on the left. Then that leads a problem of defensive midfielder, but at the moment Hamann starting and gelson on as a sub when his legs get tired. Has to be worth a try. As I said yesterday and under a pissed and pissed off mood, I don't think we will see much more of Dunne after the Jan transfer window.

Had he been better player one if the big clubs would've come for him and he would've left. For years we were perfect match. We've moved on now. Football is harsh harsh game at the very top and there's no room for sentimentality.... either way.

I agree he's not totally to blame, Richards and Hart have also had a poor season in my opinion, Kompany is brilliant but gets too far forward and leaves the boys at the back exposed, our full backs don't track back enough after a counter attack, all of this leaves Dunnie looking very bad I agree, however his own form has been bad and not up to the standard we have grown to expect from him - he's also meant to be the leader of the whole team, let alone the defensive unit, but he doesn't seem to lead or organise us well enough at the back

Basically my point is that those who watch him week in, week out know he's not been up to scratch.

He actually has 7 OGs btw -

2 November 2008.
Bolton–Manchester City, 2–0.

20 October 2008.
Newcastle–Manchester City, 2–1.

5 April 2008.
Manchester City–Chelsea, 0–2.

23 October 2006.
Wigan–Manchester City, 4–0.

13 February 2005.
Manchester City–Manchester United, 0–2.

28 December 2004.
Manchester City–West Brom, 1–1.

16 December 2001.
Manchester City–Bradford, 3–1.

eirebhoy

Xavi6 wrote: »

He actually has 7 OGs btw -

I got that stat from Setanta I think.

Anyway, I was very impressed any time I saw Dunne under Erikson. Gone were the long punts up field as Sven wanted the team playing with the ball on the ground. Sure it was only last December that he was winning man of the match against Torres. He got 33 bonus points in the fantasy football which for the 2nd year in a row was more than any other defender. That's an average of about 17 games chosen by an ex-pro as one of the best 3 of the 22 players on the pitch. As I said, maybe he's just playing poorly against the poor teams in games us neutrals don't hear about.

As far as I remember Sven couldn't speak highly enough of him. He talked him up to Trap too. And Dunne has been world class for Ireland under Trap. he geniunely got the better of Vucinic in a 1 v 1. He frustrated Vucinic by being faster, stronger and better than him. Italy and Bulgaria failed to do that, he was supposedly class against both. Against Cyprus, take Dunne out of the team and replace him with Andy O'Brien and that defence is barely championship standard. From international to coca cola championship standard by swapping 2 premiership class players.

Xavi6

I have to disagree on the point that the long punts are gone. He's still pretty much the biggest long ball merchant going. Himself and Richards have to be two of the worst ball playing centre halves around. Their strengths are very much in other areas.

mike65

eirebhoy wrote: »

Dunne has scored 6 og's in the premiership. Ferdinand and Carragher are both on 5.

5 over 530 games or so, that not bad. Should be safe for another 100 games.

Mike

bigstar

eirebhoy wrote: »

Sorry if I think you lot are a fickle bunch but I don't think it's a coincidence that Dunne isn't in great form for City atm.

obviuosly you dont watch many city, because i wouldnt say dunne is not in great form at the mo. hughes keeps changing the defence which is having a bad effect on the team. ogs dont mean hes having poor games. i still dont know what your basing your fickle remark on. me saying dunne isnt playing so we should be ok. i meant we wont score any ogs, if dunne didnt play last night i think we could have been beaten. but i wont take being called fickle from a celtic fan, what do you know about loyalty when things are bad. i think wed be a worse team without dunne, i think as a team were poor at the mo. to be honest i dont care what you think of city fans, im proud to be one, im proud that we continually get great support without a sniff of success, and if some fans are getting frustrated because the expectations at the club arent materialising now, then theyre allowed to

eirebhoy

Xavi6 wrote: »

I have to disagree on the point that the long punts are gone. He's still pretty much the biggest long ball merchant going. Himself and Richards have to be two of the worst ball playing centre halves around. Their strengths are very much in other areas.

I don't know the end of season stats but as of January last season Dunne had a pass success rate of 79%, compared to his 62% the previous season.

bigstar wrote: »

obviuosly you dont watch many city, because i wouldnt say dunne is not in great form at the mo.

I think the man himself is the best judge:

“I think I’ve been doing well for my country over the last year or so. I missed a couple of games for City at the start of the season, but I’m just hoping to replicate my international form there.”

As for the fickle mark. For gods sake. A lot City fans don't rate him anywhere near as highly as they did a 12 months ago when he clearly hasn't turned into a worse player in that time. That's all I'm saying. I don't know where you're going with your bad team, good team rubbish.

btw, it seems to me now that you're post was sarcastic. If so could you not have told me that first?

Raskolnikov

For Manchester City fans to have a go at Dunne is amazing considering just how poor the rest of the team have been defensively this season.

Against Twente at least, he was the best defender on the night. Richards looked like he was asleep for the game. Despite having a worse season than Dunne, I don't see anyone calling for his head to roll :rolleyes: Zabaleta is skillful, but very frail defensively. What City fans would do to have the Corluka of last season in the team. In fairness, the other lad Garrido did well.

Stephen Ireland was the best player of the night though. It was amazing to see him scampering down the wings too. He actually looks, tenacious this season :eek:

Xavi6

Raskolnikov wrote: »

For Manchester City fans to have a go at Dunne is amazing considering just how poor the rest of the team have been defensively this season.

Against Twente at least, he was the best defender on the night. Richards looked like he was asleep for the game. Despite having a worse season than Dunne, I don't see anyone calling for his head to roll :rolleyes: Zabaleta is skillful, but very frail defensively. What City fans would do to have the Corluka of last season in the team. In fairness, the other lad Garrido did well.

Stephen Ireland was the best player of the night though. It was amazing to see him scampering down the wings too. He actually looks, tenacious this season :eek:

Ah here, you could at least read the thread before throwing in your little rolleyes -

Xavi6 wrote: »

Truth be told Micah Richards has had a woeful start to the season as well, and there have been calls for him to get a rest too and be replaced by Ben Haim or Onouha.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sure apart from the game OT no one had a good game after January! And that has continued this season for both Dunne and Richards.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Himself and Richards have to be two of the worst ball playing centre halves around. Their strengths are very much in other areas.

Is three posts criticising Richards enough for you?

bigstar

eirebhoy wrote: »

A lot City fans don't rate him anywhere near as highly as they did a 12 months ago when he clearly hasn't turned into a worse player in that time.

well not me, i like a defender who just love to tackle, and thats dunne in a nutshell, always wants to be to ball first. i dont think any defender is flawless or any player for that matter, so dunne will make mistakes, but infrequently in my opinion. id rather him in the team than not. richards on the other hand im not so sure about, havent been for a while. i think he lacks concentration sometimes, but its easy to forget how young he is, so hopefully hell grow out of that, but im not sure. none of that really matters, i dont think this seasons form is to do with any one player, the team is fairly young and maybe inexperienced and the pressure of the new owners and everything may be a factor. for me dunne is still one of our best players and hopefully he gets the chance to lift some silverware soon. should be the irish captain too i think.