[US] DollHouse [** Spoilers **] (Renewed!)

roar_ie

allx_uk wrote: »

Also can't remember what the last line in the show was?! Can anyone help?

It was echo saying "Caroline"

anotherlostie

It would be interesting to surmise where they could go with the chief protagonists in series 2.

For Doc Saunders (if Amy Acker isn't making Twin Peaks 2.0), the relationship with Topher is the main thing.

For Victor, I could see him becoming Echo's new handler, on the basis that with his sliced face, he was better off remaining a doll, just like Whiskey did. Would mean not seeing his acting range, but not sure what else they could do.

Topher - to me he was a bit maniacal at times in the finale, and exposure of the darker side of his persona would be interesting.

DeWitt and Langton - what lead them to the Dollhouse and what motivates them to remain there.

Ballard - why he was so fascinated with finding the Dollhouse, and will he act as a double agent now he is inside it.

Sierra - anything really as she was very underused.

Echo - put her in the attic and let's see a new Echo who has an acting range, thank you very much.

Agamemnon

Great finale, wrapped most things up nicely. I really hope the show doesn't get flushed but I don't hold out much hope for it.

Although the Saunders/Whiskey twist was predictable, it was well handled. Amy Acker was scorching hot in a bad girl role - such a change from nerdy Fred.

The only bum note was, as usual, Dushku's performance. During the big Alpha/Omega confrontation, her delivery was so badly misjudged that I LOL'd, convinced she was extracting the urine.

Fingers crossed for a miracle to save the show, it deservers it.

iguana

I've mixed feelings about the finale. I would really have liked to see Caroline/Echo's storyline moved further along. Ultimately the finale left her in a fairly similar place to that which she began the series in, which pretty annoying for an arc driven show. But more importantly, if the show does get renewed it would be better if Dushku was playing one character instead of lots of dolls+Echo+Caroline. If she just had one role maybe she could get her teeth into it and play it well.

Best moment of the episode was Topher's euphemism for multiple personality disorder. "He's not a person! He is soylent green. He is people!":D:D:D

Richard Dower

My ideal would be, Dushku gets killed off as Echo say in the 4th or 5th episode of series 2...she sticks to producer (sic). TSCC gets cancelled...Wheadon hires Summer Glua for Echo....happy days.

I wonder who else could play Echo?...i nominate Shirri Appelby...she's a good actress.

wet-paint

I second that, about the great Soylent Green line. I haven't read this thread, but has anyone made thecomparison between Topher and Xander? That they're the comedic relief, that put in all the pop culture references, the quirky geeky roles?

Also, has anyone questioned why Alpha was smart enough to rebuild Dollhouse technology with old CRT monitors in a power station basement? That was the biggest remaining plot hole for me. I mean, he wasn't a genius to begin with, and I'm pretty sure Topher wouldn't have had the imprints of the original designers in any of hte hard drives when he accidentally loaded them into Alpha's brain.

Or how he was able to break in to begin with? Seeing as that was on the premise that he was the environmental system dude, which he wasn't.

Richard Dower

Unless Topher made a wedge of his own brain and one of the imprints upped to Alpha was Topher's. People suspected that Topher was a doll, as such an imprint would exist...but when him and Adele got infected they didn't glitch like the other dolls....so that theory seems to be out.

Dunno, i see alot of parallels between Topher and Alpha...still think he might be a doll.

J-blk

It was never explained why they had Doc Saunders' (the original old one I mean) imprint lying around anyway so maybe it's standard operating procedure to keep an up-to-date imprint of all key personnel, in case they are incapacitated/killed. So in that case, a Topher imprint could be available, without Topher himself being a doll...

Richard Dower

^ well that would make sense, when you consider the original male Dr. Saunders died and in the chaos i doubt Topher would be able to put him in the chair and make a wedge of his brain within 3 minutes of death. Besides, after the composite event the hardware seemed borked and Topher would have to do diagnostics etc.

So the logical idea is staffers have wedges made as part of their contract, or that one of Alpha's 48 imprints was a computer whiz....but one thing bothers me, if you imprint say male Doc Saunders into Whiskey....why is she still female?

Are they able to disect a humans "personality" and experiences?, like can they extract parts of a person, for the original Dr. Saunders did they JUST extract his medical knowledge?....if so then where did they find the rest of the imprint to create the new female Claire Saunders?

Or can Topher take bits and pieces, bit of imprints and just add basic knowledge...you know?, like Neo?, like upload skills and knowledge that are not part of a human personality or imprint?

One thing, is this show the new Dollhouse?

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/devwatch.aspx?id=human_target

Richard Dower

Another MAJOR plot hole which has been pointed out on the IMBD board, why the HELL would a techie like Topher NOT have tripple redundancy and backups of wedges/imprints OFF site??????

Any network administrator or server farm or mission critical hardware would NOT store a backup right beside it's primary, if the building burnt down everything is lost!

It's standard practice you retain regular backups off site, but yeah....it's tv and the plothole (while glaring) was a nesscary plot device to further the story.

Basq

Richard Dower wrote: »

One thing, is this show the new Dollhouse?

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/devwatch.aspx?id=human_target

Drama revolves around mysterious freelancer Christopher Chance, who takes on a different identity each week to help those in need

Sounds more 'Touched By An Angel' than 'Dollhouse' tbh!

Richard Dower

^ yeah...more then likely Basq...Jane Espenson also wrote the BSG upcoming movie "The Plan"?....should be good!

Also: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1135300/board/thread/137746053

But as people point out it's not true until Fox present their upfront schedule next Monday.

Richard Dower

http://www.tv.com/story/14670.html?ref_story_id=14670&ref_type=1101&ref_name=story

Gods sake!

Agamemnon

Richard Dower wrote: »

http://www.peterdavid.net/index.php/2009/05/09/cowboy-pete-plays-with-dollhouse/#more-2814

Interesting article, he makes some good points. I like Peter David's work although I think he went a bit overboard with his criticism there. He's right about the show being based on a very dark and twisted premise and it was probably a mistake to adopt too light-hearted a tone to it. A goofy character like Topher also didn't suit a show that is essentially about sex slaves.

iguana

Richard Dower wrote: »

Another MAJOR plot hole which has been pointed out on the IMBD board, why the HELL would a techie like Topher NOT have tripple redundancy and backups of wedges/imprints OFF site??????

Any network administrator or server farm or mission critical hardware would NOT store a backup right beside it's primary, if the building burnt down everything is lost!

It's standard practice you retain regular backups off site, but yeah....it's tv and the plothole (while glaring) was a nesscary plot device to further the story.

Whedon shows usually have huge plotholes though. He creates fantastic characters who grow and change in unpredictable yet believable ways. And that distracts from the fact that his arcs have huge holes in them and he often cobbles them together with a deus ex machina type ending.

If I had a Dollhouse I'd get Whedon's brain and mesh it together with J. Straczynski's. Just imagine the show that would make, well plotted, intelligent and with amazing dialogue throughout.:)

J-blk

Richard Dower wrote: »

So the logical idea is staffers have wedges made as part of their contract, or that one of Alpha's 48 imprints was a computer whiz....but one thing bothers me, if you imprint say male Doc Saunders into Whiskey....why is she still female?

Are they able to disect a humans "personality" and experiences?, like can they extract parts of a person, for the original Dr. Saunders did they JUST extract his medical knowledge?....if so then where did they find the rest of the imprint to create the new female Claire Saunders?

I think they can "splice" different personality traits/skills together - in one of the first episodes, where Echo was imprinted as a backup singer (cringe worthy episode), she was also imprinted as a bodyguard/protector/fighter which only kicked in when her client was threatened. So if they can do that, they could probably "tweak" imprints to pull different aspects from different personalities, which is what I'm guessing was done with the doll imprint of Doc Saunders...

J-blk

iguana wrote: »

If I had a Dollhouse I'd get Whedon's brain and mesh it together with J. Straczynski's. Just imagine the show that would make, well plotted, intelligent and with amazing dialogue throughout.:)

That would be awesome but would unfortunately land on FOX and get canceled after 3 episodes, only to be replaced by repeats of "My dad is fatter than your dad" or some other bulls**t reality show...

iguana

J-blk wrote: »

That would be awesome but would unfortunately land on FOX and get canceled after 3 episodes, only to be replaced by repeats of "My dad is fatter than your dad" or some other bulls**t reality show...

Nah, Straczynski's brain would prevent that from happening. Have you ever read about the level of control he exerted over Babylon 5? Right from day 1 he was adamant he was only doing that show if he could have as complete a control over it as it was possible to get. Obviously you can't control whether your actors will really be available for 5 years, or whether a channel will drop it or not, but he refused to make Babylon 5 until he had full control of all creative aspects of the show. So I don't think he'd touch Fox with a barge poll.

Richard Dower

^ and how many shows has he had since B5?....one?, clearly cnotrol freaks aren't what tv execs. like, as such he dosen't get many shows made. With tv you have to give and take otherwise it won't get made.

Richard Dower

Read this: http://www.kansascity.com/entertainment/columnists/aaron_barnhart/story/1191226.html

Co-ex producers confirm first five eps. were crap due to Fox dictating things.

"And was I the only one disturbed at how that other actress played Dushku better than Dushku (same thing happened in Buffy when she and Faith switched bodies and SMG played Faith 10X better than Dushku ever had)."

HAHA!....this is soooooooooo true!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1135300/board/thread/137707996?d=137713635&p=1#137713635

iguana

Richard Dower wrote: »

^ and how many shows has he had since B5?....one?, clearly cnotrol freaks aren't what tv execs. like, as such he dosen't get many shows made. With tv you have to give and take otherwise it won't get made.

He hasn't been pitching tv series though, he's made several comic book series, he's done quite a bit of writing for Marvel. Mainly though he's writing movies, he wrote the Angelina Jolie movie; The Changeling, Marvel's Silver Surfer, a remake of Forbidden Planet, he adapted Paul Greengrass' They Marched into Sunlight, he has another 3 movies either pitched or sold. And most importantly he was chosen to adapt Max Brooks' World War Z, and early reviews of the script say it is amazing. (Which if it's made will be the most awesome movie ever in the history of anything!!!!!!)

Last year Variety named him one of the top ten screenwriters to watch. While he's enjoying so much success as a writer why would he want or need to pitch another tv series? I'm sure if he ever gets inspired for another series he'll attempt to get it made. And that's the other thing, he's an artist, if he doesn't have the inspiration for a series he won't write one.

iguana

Apparently the show isn't down and out just yet.

Sources say fans shouldn't lose hope; that despite the show's recent ratings, Dollhouse is still alive. Whedon pitched the network on his vision for season two late last week. Discussions have commenced between Fox and the studio about how to make the show work financially. Not trying to spread false hope here, merely saying the finale rating has apparently not scared off the network and negotiations are ongoing.

And the series DVD is out on July 28th.

lostexpectation

he screenwrote changeling?

iguana

lostexpectation wrote: »

he screenwrote changeling?

Joe Straczynski? Yeah. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0824747/

Ivan

Richard Dower wrote: »

Unless Topher made a wedge of his own brain and one of the imprints upped to Alpha was Topher's. People suspected that Topher was a doll, as such an imprint would exist...but when him and Adele got infected they didn't glitch like the other dolls....so that theory seems to be out.

Dunno, i see alot of parallels between Topher and Alpha...still think he might be a doll.

If the episode of Topher kicking back and having fun with Sierra is anything to go by, then it is quite likely that Topher has a wedge of himself that he recreates once a year on his birthday to entertain and challenge himself. It's quite probable that Alpha filled this role at least at one stage. Furthermore, they constantly refer to him as a genius which I guess anyone would be if they had the culminated IQ of 48 people, I mean assuming an average of 100 IQ points per person... well, I dont know enough about IQ and multiple personality/multiple people personality disorders to know if it would work that way, but you'd have to assume it would be something along those lines...

Richard Dower

See i have heard some people say Topher imprinted a female version of himself into Sierra for his birthday....i don't see that. What i think is that the original imprint of Whiskey is somehow linked to Topher. As in he knows her before the Dollhouse, either his sister or a girlfriend.

So it was that imprint he gave to Sierra for his birthday, Topher has some deeper connection to the original Whiskey then we think. Which could explain why Whiskey says to Topher in the finale...why did you think it was import for me to hate you (per imprint). There must be something that happened to the original Whiskey.

My theory is Topher worked for the Rossum corporation, along with his sister/GF...or maybe the original Whiskey was a fellow lab tech that he fell for...something happened, experiement gone wrong. So as part of saving original Whiskey he joins the Dollhouse...my theory.

Richard Dower

http://www.endofshow.com/2009/05/12/exclusive-fox-picks-up-human-target-considering-dollhouse-pairing/

Support Dollhouse!...pre-order DVD! http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0024FAR66?tag=dollhouse-dollverse-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B0024FAR66&adid=0NBFTFVFW64B9DNV427V&

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Glad to hear that Dollhouse is being considered for a second series.

Richard Dower

I think it's 50/50 myself...it depends on what Joss pitched to Fox last week, and also if they can get the show for cheaper. Maybe cut the number of episodes...say order 8-10 and see how it does, if it picks up they have an option to pick up more etc.

Richard Dower

Some interesting chatter on the forums and boards about a season 2 pickup. Apparently Joss made a major pitch to Fox bigwigs where he laid out detailed plots and arcs for series 2...whereas Terminator's Joss Friedman gave a barebone synopsis.....this could indicate that Friedman felt he was wasting his time making a major pitch.

It also seems it's about money and lowering costs, as in how much Fox pays for the show...chatter suggests cutting costs for the production side, perhaps smaller cast or using less costly plots that involve new sets our shooting outside.

It's also been said that they plan to pair Dollhouse with new show Human Target, in addition the shorter add breaks will be gone, as in...season 1 had 49 minutes episodes due to less add breaks...Fox are dumping this, as such standard 43 minute shows with more adds will return.

All in all it really does come down to either Dollhouse or Terminator.....

Also Starring LeVar Burton

I'll be cheering Dollhouse on... Next week will be interesting with the big 5 networks announcing their schedules.

robby^5

http://www.endofshow.com/2009/05/14/dollhouse-fans-crash-fox-phone-system-asking-for-second-series/

We'll know on Monday!

Richard Dower

The countdown commences........

Should we have a poll?...say "Dollhouse: will it be cancelled?" = yes/no?

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Richard Dower wrote: »

The countdown commences........

Should we have a poll?...say "Dollhouse: will it be cancelled?" = yes/no?

I think we should. It'll help kill time between now and the announcement next week anyway, and should keep the conversation going strong.

Basq

CaptainNegative wrote: »

I think we should. It'll help kill time between now and the announcement next week anyway, and should keep the conversation going strong.

If anything... it'll space out the 3 minutes before another Dollhouse-related post from Richard.

Richard Dower

basquille wrote: »

If anything... it'll space out the 3 minutes before another Dollhouse-related post from Richard.

use your uber mod powers and set it up then!
Add a third option: yes/no/i couldn't care less

Richard Dower

http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/05/dollhouse-second-season.html

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118003720.html?categoryid=14&cs=1

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/04/fall-tv-cheat-s.html

Felt this deserved a fresh thread!

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Sounds positive, but until I see it on the schedule next week, I'm not gonna be celebrating.

robby^5

At this stage I'm fairly confident Dollhouse is coming back in stead of Terminator which looks to be out the door, which is a shame but tbh I'm more looking forward to Salvation than another series of SCC.

It's also a good thing the rumours are saying it'll be another 13 episode season, I was afraid he might get a 20/22 episode season and it would be full of Fox-interfered-with episodes and generally a lot of filler, short and sweet is the way to go

Also Starring LeVar Burton

New story just posted on endofshow.com;

http://www.endofshow.com/2009/05/15/fox-preps-dollhouse-for-fall-relaunch/

Basq

I reckon it's as good as renewed to be honest..

.. but enough Dollhouse topics for the time being!

iguana

It seems that if they can get the show cheap enough it will definitely be renewed. You know what would make it cheaper? If they got rid of Dushku.

It would be win:win!:D

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Well, it's official, Dollhouse has been...

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RENEWED FOR A 2nd SEASON!!!!!

Fox have just announced it - they've ordered 13 episodes with the possibility of more and it will most likely start in September. Hurrah!
Here's my source;

http://www.endofshow.com/2009/05/16/breaking-fox-renews-dollhouse-for-second-season/

Also Starring LeVar Burton

After lenghty proceedings today at Fox and what must have been a jaw-dropping presentation by Whedon and company, Fox decided to put us out of out misery...
After what must have been a long game of "Cancel It/Renew It", Fox came out and announced that our favourite dollhouse cast and crew, and Eliza Dushku (grrr) will be back for 13 episodes this fall, with the possibility of more episodes in the 2nd season.
Now all we gotta do is hope that people watch the second season...

Yay! More Dollhouse...

Here's the source;

http://www.endofshow.com/2009/05/16/breaking-fox-renews-dollhouse-for-second-season/

BlitzKrieg

i'm happy.

But I wont be if they really did drop terminator for dollhouse.

Cause Dollhouse is great and all and I enjoyed the finale and I like the characters.

But terminator sarah connor chronicles was much better.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

i'm happy.

But I wont be if they really did drop terminator for dollhouse.

Cause Dollhouse is great and all and I enjoyed the finale and I like the characters.

But terminator sarah connor chronicles was much better.

Fairly certain TSCC was gone either way. Up until yesterday the plan was to drop both shows.

Basq

Yep.. one of the regulars on a "private" forum I visit is an actual TV critic who had the screener for the 1st episode months ago and posted various screencaps of us to tease us (not to mention a very cool screenshot from Epitaph One) had this to say on the forum yesterday evening:

Absolutely, definitely back for a second season. 13 episodes, expandable to 20 if the network wants, returns in Fall. Signed and sealed with Joss. Spoke to one of the actresses earlier. Exciting! Joss has some mad plans.

Definitely happy this was renewed as opposed to Terminator.

ziedth

i agree its like a broken record at this stage but i thought this show took a major major upturn after episode 6 , i for one am delighted its been picked up again. I'm not a fan of tscc so its no loss imo.

lostexpectation

knock me down the a feather im gobsmacked.

still want to see drive

J-blk

Did hell just freeze over? This got renewed on FOX?! :eek: Very happy about it, hopefully it'll get a better slot and find true success next year - though I still am sad to see T:SCC go (but was fully expecting both shows to be dead).