2,500 dead from drug abuse/OD in Ireland from '98-'05, does anyone care?

Venom

Dont care in the least.

Hammered hippie

Silly thing then that the governement is intimidating headshops were legal and safe drugs are available from known sources with known ingredients.

With a bit of bad luck the governement will try to close down these shops driving tens of thousands of people right into the hands of dealers of the illegal stuff...and all that for a meazly hand full of extra voters!!

Way to go!....one can really tell that politicians have the welfare of the public in mind...untill they cast their vote and then they can bugger off!

So just wait for the increase of drug deaths once headshops are being closed down and then take your complaint to the governement since they are doing the right thing at this moment to get the annual amount of drugs deaths up instead of down

staker

Venom wrote: »

Dont care in the least.

+1

Dudess

A lot of heroin users tried it "for the buzz", oblivious to how easy it is to get addicted. Plenty of us did something "just to try it".

I hate the judgemental crap on these threads of "they deserve to die". It's profoundly ignorant and stupid.

Hammered hippie

@Dudess
And to satisfy many a person's curiosity headshops provide safe content and professional information.
Usually the information about the stuff keeps people away from it since it turns out it was not the buzz they were looking for...they go back to drinking a beer and that's that
Often when they try they didn't like it and won't try drugs again.
The ones that like it usually stick to headshop stuff.

Imagine those curious people having gone to a dealer of the illegal stuff.

staker

Anyone who tries heroin "for the buzz" deserves what's coming.
Nothing judgemental or crap about it,just plain fact.
I'll refrain from labelling you stupid or ignorant because you normally post good sound opinions but sorry Dudess, i don't agree with your 'blanket slander'.

Hammered hippie

@Staker

You are apparently well informed about the dangers of stuff like Heroin.
Some people weren't,... especially in the 80's or before.
Mind you..information about such a simple thing as contraception was basically illegal here until recently..let alone proper info about such a thing as Heroin.
So instead of slanting those who had the misfortune of not being as well informed as you ...well......you could be a bit more mercyfull

dotsman

Dudess wrote: »

A lot of heroin users tried it "for the buzz", oblivious to how easy it is to get addicted. Plenty of us did something "just to try it".

I hate the judgemental crap on these threads of "they deserve to die". It's profoundly ignorant and stupid.

Agree with you on the "deserve to die" being a tad strong. But at the same time, I'd have more sympathy for someone who's death was not down to their own actions.

With regards to "just to try it", everyone's aware of the risks. It's not like anybody actually shot up on heroin without knowing that most people end up as junkies after "just trying it". For me, I don't blame anyone for me being a smoker. I was well aware that they're addictive when I first smoked, the same way junkies (including those that have died) have to take full responsibility. They gambled, they lost, but it's nobody else's fault.

Dudess

staker wrote: »

you normally post good sound opinions

Thanks.

i don't agree with your 'blanket slander'.

It's not slander - I'm only referring to the posts, not the posters.

And yes, I strongly dislike the moralising on these threads. It's unfair to make blanket generalisations about heroin addicts also. Sure, plenty of them are scumbags anyway, plenty of them are irresponsible idiots, but some of them made a stupid mistake and by god they are paying for it.

dotsman wrote: »

With regards to "just to try it", everyone's aware of the risks. It's not like anybody actually shot up on heroin without knowing that most people end up as junkies after "just trying it".

Strongly disagree. People "just try" smoking and convince themselves they won't become addicted. Sure, they're lying to themselves, but they don't think "I'm gonna become a smoker but meh, so what..."
Similar principle with heroin - users don't generally start out injecting anyway, they smoke it, then they "upgrade" to needles.

For me, I don't blame anyone for me being a smoker. I was well aware that they're addictive when I first smoked, the same way junkies (including those that have died) have to take full responsibility. They gambled, they lost, but it's nobody else's fault.

Completely agree but that's still no reason for the dismissive attitudes towards them. Like people don't treat smokers or alcoholics with half as much derision, simply because heroin is an illegal, dirty drug.

phantom_lord

staker wrote: »

Anyone who tries heroin "for the buzz" deserves what's coming.

life nit

staker

merciful? why?
i've done nothing wrong.
i've expressed my opninion is all.
like i said, i'm pretty certain the information regarding the dangers of taking heroin and other related drugs is as widely accessible and available as the information available as how to "shoot up" or "skin up" is.
it's up to the individual to take responsibility for his/her actions and stop laying blame at other people's doors.

Hammered hippie

That info is available now indeed
But it was not always

Dudess

But I'm not for one second saying the heroin addicts aren't accountable for the situation they're in, I'm just saying I disagree with the dismissal of them as little more than dog droppings. Just because they made their own mess doesn't mean they're not deserving of a little compassion.

Shryke

A lot of people who do drugs have problems. Real problems. Whether they have had rough lives or gone through some traumatic situations or they're from a broken home or suffer a mental illness, drugs is a release from all of that. So is alcohol to an extent and a lot of people turn to the bottle rather than narcotics but others don't. I'm really sickened by some of the posts people make. Whether it's the latest peadophile thread or something like this there's always a big ugly mob shouting for castration and death and all kinds of horrible punishments. Sure this is After Hours. But this is a place for a bit of banter, not vindictive hate from a buch of self righteous keyboard warriors.
And yes I ****ing care. I knew one of those 2500. And **** everyone in this thread who says 'Good enough for them'.

Hammered hippie

Then again
Many people know what heroin does and brings and use it anyways...why? one can wonder

Believe me

It is the sullen, desinterested and harsh view of many people like you Staker that makes people crave that bit of oblivion.

Then again..you probably never wondered why people end up in lesser situation than you are...or did you.

Kicking the 'weak and wandering' will only make more of them

Hammered hippie

+1 for Sandor!!!

staker

maybe so hippie,at least the information is more widely available now.
i don't know you're circumstances but surely you'll agree in saying that an initial fear and weariness exists in potential drug users before that first joint/shot?
that's the responsibility i'm talking about.... i can feel (slightly) for the user once he hes got himself into this situation but my arguement is his freedom of choice first day.
it's a complex scenario coz i've messed up too in other ways but drug users looking for empathy usually brings out the worse in me.

Hellm0

I for one think its a pity that so many people resort to heroin as an escape from life, regardless of background or economic situation. As dudess put it, generalizations about user's deserving death are not really constructive and usually just belay a lack of experience with addiction.

dotsman

Dudess wrote: »

Strongly disagree....Completely agree...

How do you strongly disagree and yet, completely agree with what was, in essence, the same point

Oh I know a newbie pretty much thinks "that won't happen to me", but that's what people always think before they take risks (speeding/drink driving/wrestling Amazonian women). But they are still well aware of the risks. It's not a case of "if only they had been told one more time that heroin was addictive". As I said, same for me. I didn't take my first drag thinking that I would end up addicted. But 2 years later (my 16t birthday) I realised I had to sneak out of the house and have a cigarette on my own, just because, I needed a smoke!

I wish I didn't take up smoking, but I don't blame anyone for it. If I get cancer, the only person I have to blame is myself. And I would also hate for people to feel sorry for me if it turns out that my death (some time in the next 120 years I predict) was caused by smoking!

As for why people junkies are far below smokers/alcos on the social ladder? Well, smoking doesn't really inhibit a person's ability to interact with society (ie they can still function as an everyday person, working, family life, friends, finances etc). Alcos are the same until it gets totally out of control, at which stage they are ostrocised from society in the same manner as junkies.

Dudess

dotsman wrote: »

How do you strongly disagree and yet, completely agree with what was, in essence, the same point

Well no... I strongly disagree with your assertion that a person who uses heroin for the first time (and they won't necessarily shoot up, they'll smoke it) knows they'll become an addict. They might genuinely think they'll be strong enough to just stick with "dabbling"
I strongly agree with your statement that at the end of the day, the user is responsible for their decision. Having a degree of compassion for them though, doesn't mean one is deflecting personal responsibility from them.

As for the risks being publicised - many junkies are uneducated to the point of illiteracy in the first place.

dotsman

Dudess wrote: »

As for the risks being publicised - many junkies are uneducated to the point of illiteracy in the first place.

They don't need to read the warnings. For those who are at the point of illiteracy, they are likely growing up in a background of junkies and can very well see for themselves how much people fcuk themselves up on the $hit

Hammered hippie

@Staker
In some parts of society I don't actually see that first fear or danger awareness.
Some smoke joints from 8-12 years old.
Then what follows is the dangerous persuasion techniques and peer critisism by 'friends' that leads to drug use.....just to be part of it.
For those who know the dangers but use anyways it is often never a choice one makes on its own

For those who didnot know enough about dangers ...it is tragic all together that they fall prey to heroin.

I work in an environment where I have to deal with loads of those who will probably never make it back from addiction or worse
I can be harsh to them...but I choose not to.
Also a choice..just as the choice you mention about using it or not.
And so often the choice not to do something is more easy than the choice to do something...even if it is just a smile or some help.

Dudess

dotsman wrote: »

They don't need to read the warnings. For those who are at the point of illiteracy, they are likely growing up in a background of junkies and can very well see for themselves how much people fcuk themselves up on the $hit

Look, I'm not defending heroin use, I'm just angered by the way people are so judgemental and moralising and heartless towards addicts.

amacachi

Dudess wrote: »

Look, I'm not defending heroin use, I'm just angered by the way people are so judgemental and moralising and heartless towards addicts.

+1.

Some addicts are still scumbags however and were scumbags well before they touched anything. Those ones I have no sympathy for in anything.

Hammered hippie

@dotsman
And that is all they see most likely. It must be the inevitable feeling of not being to escape that kind of environment that in the end gets to a person. Usually that is enough to choose the easy way of escape. Since that is what it is..it is the easy escape.

dotsman

Dudess wrote: »

Look, I'm not defending heroin use, I'm just angered by the way people are so judgemental and moralising and heartless towards addicts.

I agree. I'm not happy to see a junkie suffer/die (and am sympathetic to their families etc). But on the scale of things (ie deaths), I'm not overly sympathetic and (although I don't like to see anyone die!) I'd rather see 10 junkies die from an OD than 1 innocent kid die in some accident.

Hammered hippie

@amachi
That might be true....but I have never seen a baby that is a scumbag

So where does the scumbaggyness come from then?

Guy:Incognito

bondgirl wrote: »

Drug users should be given the help they need to come off the drugs, everyone makes mistakes and bad decisions, they should be allowed a second chance to turn their lives around

So why dont we all get government funding and help for all our mistakes? Why help junkies and not help me when I spend my money (by mistake) and cant pay loans?

Intstead of jailing drink drivers, we could give them a court appointed chauffeur.

amacachi

Hammered hippie wrote: »

@amachi
That might be true....but I have never seen a baby that is a scumbag

So where does the scumbaggyness come from then?

Seen many babies take heroin? :P

It's hard to define standards but I have my own based on what I've seen in my own area. People with the best of everythin can still be scum, people with next to nothing can be lovely people, different in each case.

ScumLord

Hammered hippie wrote: »

@Dudess
And to satisfy many a person's curiosity headshops provide safe content and professional information.
Usually the information about the stuff keeps people away from it since it turns out it was not the buzz they were looking for...they go back to drinking a beer and that's that
Often when they try they didn't like it and won't try drugs again.
The ones that like it usually stick to headshop stuff.

I don't know about that. Maybe it's because headshops weren't around when I was starting out but still I think if I had the choice between illegal drugs and legal I'd go for illegal. The stuff in headshops is sub par at best. It's like buying absinthe in this country. It's alcohol but it's still not the real deal. I see headshops as places collages students go to "walk on the wild side" but not offering any proper high.

Do you by any chance work in a headshop?

Having information and all the knowledge in the world won't stop you taking whatever when your drunk.