Galway drivers, worst in Ireland?

cL0h

big b wrote: »

I disagree.
I actually think letting people out at junctions/boreens etc is one of the few things Galway drivers are reasonably good at. Fecking annoying when they stop on a roundabout to do it though.
But erratic use of indicators, no maintenance of head, tail & brake light bulbs, going where you want to oblivious of others, forcing in to lanes rather than waiting to be allowed in, lack of knowledge of rules of the road etc etc. It's really surprising that there aren't a lot more road rage incidents.

Your point on Galway drivers Giving way to pedestrians
I give +1

Your subsequent point on Galway drivers total lack of knowledge of how to use a roundabout I also give +1

And what's the story with all the cars in the city with only one headlight. I've even seen taxis like this (and mistaken them for motorbikes until the last second. Phew!!)

kayos

cL0h wrote: »

And what's the story with all the cars in the city with only one headlight. I've even seen taxis like this (and mistaken them for motorbikes until the last second. Phew!!)

Heck I've been stopped by the guards and they checked my lights, tyres etc just to see them drive off with one head light...

Mrs OBumble

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

You take the left lane/outside lane. Numbering the exits doesn't even logically make sense anyways since it doesnt take into account where the exits are actually located around the roundabout, unlike the 'clock' system.

We've had this argument in another thread recently.

The legally correct answer is exits 1 and 2 take the left lane, exits 3+ take the right-hand lane, unless indicated otherwise by road-markings.

Agreed it's particularly silly at Cemetery Cross, where there is literally no roadway between exits 2 and 3. But still it's the official answer.

ZorbaTehZ

Do you have a link for that? Because I did my test in February and that was the way I learned from my instructor and how I completed the test...

galwayguy22

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

ZorbaTehZ

galwayguy22 wrote: »

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/roundabouts.html

That makes no reference to what JustMary said, in fact the diagrams and text mirror what I said already. Not wanting to drag this thread offtopic any further, if you have that link JustMary can you pm me please.

kayos

JustMary wrote: »

The legally correct answer is exits 1 and 2 take the left lane, exits 3+ take the right-hand lane, unless indicated otherwise by road-markings.

/facepalm

Honestly show me where in the rules of the road it mentions 1st exit or 2nd exit in that manner. Its based on exits that are straight ahead or before that you take the left lane, anything past straight ahead take the right. The exception being where road markings or signs say other wise.

The way the rules of the road is written dont really help this but every decent driving instructor show know this.

tippytom

I am from Dublin but living in Galway the last 5 years. I thought I was being petty so I never really vented my frustration but people down here simply do not drive on roundabouts correctly.at ffrench roundabout yesterday at 1730 there were 2 cars already stationary from a minor tip so I was being extra cautious. I entered the roundabout and I indicated to go straight ahead . Just at that moment a woman shot out in front of me from my left.I broke in time. I beeped and as I did so she beeped and pulled a face at me in a joking way to wind me up or something cos she knew she was in the wrong.I was so infuriated. If it had been safe to do so I would have followed her and unleash verbal fury and ensure she regretted that face pull

04KY

tippytom wrote: »

and I indicated to go straight ahead

You shouldn't indicate to go straight ahead.

Bass Cadet

tippytom wrote: »

If it had been safe to do so I would have followed her and unleash verbal fury and ensure she regretted that face pull

'Face pull' Now what you've described above would be classed as road rage. You're better off keeping a hurl in the passenger seat and shaking it out the window at people who cut ya up on the road, that's universal language for 'ya b0llocks!'

galwayguy22

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

That makes no reference to what JustMary said, in fact the diagrams and text mirror what I said already. Not wanting to drag this thread offtopic any further, if you have that link JustMary can you pm me please.

Well which are you going to trust, the actual rules of the road or what some misinformed randoms said on a boards thread?

Mr E

You indicate after passing the first exit.

?Cee?view

JustMary wrote: »

We've had this argument in another thread recently.

The legally correct answer is exits 1 and 2 take the left lane, exits 3+ take the right-hand lane, unless indicated otherwise by road-markings.

Agreed it's particularly silly at Cemetery Cross, where there is literally no roadway between exits 2 and 3. But still it's the official answer.

Just Mary,

I don't mean to be insulting about this, but it's people with your level of ignorance that are killing people and causing accidents. Rather than making statements like the one quoted above, why don't you research the position. Using roundabouts is quite simple. The problem appears to be that people such as yourself decide what the rule is based on supposition and then pontificate to other. The Rules of the Road can be downloaded from the RSA website. You should have a look at them.

Then to further bring the point home, apply some logic. If (using your "legally correct" rule) the third exit is at a 150 degree angle from where you're entering i.e. to your left, why in the name of god would you use the right lane to access it when you would be crossing people going staight ahead (180 degrees) correctly using the left lane?

I'm fed up with this. Last Saturday afternoon, at the roundabout at the Galway Clinic, I witnessed a motorbike using the correct lane turning left (from Dublin direction to Merlin Park direction) being knocked down by a woman using the right lane off the dual carriageway to take the same left turn. The woman's excuse - "I didn't see him." When I said that she needed to learn to use roundabouts, her answer "Maybe I should".

Please learn Just Mary before you cause a similar accident. You may not be as lucky and in your case the motorcyclist/motorist/cyclist may not walk away.

ZorbaTehZ

galwayguy22 wrote: »

Well which are you going to trust, the actual rules of the road or what some misinformed randoms said on a boards thread?

Hence my asking for a link...

mark.leonard

My formula to the dock road problem is that if you are being annoyed by drivers barging in up near the lights after driving up in the right hand lane, you would probably be less annoyed if you drove up the right hand lane yourself, then barged in up at the top. If you swing in just before the lights then ther eis very little chance of someone pulling in in front of you

dafunk

In defence of Galway drivers they're very courteous. Having said this they are appaling drivers. They don't indicate. they drive painfully slowly at times, they can't use roundabouts, they think that the side roads have the right of way and they don't position their cars correctly when turning right.

It's a good thing I'm such a patient person or I'd have suffered road rage quite a few times!

People here are really nice about letting other cars out in front of them, that doesn't happen in Dublin and it's taken me a while to get out of the frame of mind of "It's me against them - **** you buddy, that's my piece of road!"

We need cycle lanes. And buses. And days when it doesn't rain so you can walk places. Wouldn't we all be much happier

Mrs OBumble

churchview wrote: »

Just Mary,

I don't mean to be insulting about this, but it's people with your level of ignorance that are killing people and causing accidents. Rather than making statements like the one quoted above, why don't you research the position. Using roundabouts is quite simple. The problem appears to be that people such as yourself decide what the rule is based on supposition and then pontificate to other. The Rules of the Road can be downloaded from the RSA website. You should have a look at them.

I sat and passed a test in October. My post is based on advice given by the instructor I took a couple of brush-up lessons with(*). That advice is backed up by http://www.lireland.com/theory/roundabouts.htm which says:

IF LEAVING BY THE FIRST EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane signalling a left turn and proceed to leave the roundabout at that exit.
• IF LEAVING BY THE SECOND EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane but do not signal until you have passed the first exit, then signal a left turn and leave at the next exit.
• IF LEAVING BY ANY SUBSEQUENT EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the right hand lane signalling a right turn. Keep in the right hand lane (i.e. the lane next to the centre). As you pass the exit before the one you intend to leave by, signal a left turn and, when your way is clear, move to the other lane and leave at the desired exit.

Granted, there are other driving-instructor websites that quote the 1+straight vs subsequent rule. And agreed it would be better if they all told the same story.

I'm no lawyer, but having done some searching and browsing on http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a21 I'm concluding that Irish law is not specific on the rules for leaving roundabouts, and that is why the RSA's "Rules of the Road" publication which galwayguy22 linked to is so vague.

To put this into some practical context, the test route I was examined on included driving up Ballybane Rd, through the Morris Roundabout and taking the second exit. I used the left hand for entering the roundabout, and my action was marked "correct". This is even though the 2nd exit is a little (perhaps 5-degrees) past "straight ahead", as shown here:

http://www.multimap.com/maps/#map=53.28827,-9.01248|17|32&bd=useful_information&loc=IE:53.28827:-9.01248:17|ballybane%20road,%20galway|BALLYBAAN%20ROAD,%20GALWAY

Actually, this case is an excellent example of why the left+straight vs subsequent rule doesn't work in practice: it can be extremely difficult to determine what is "straight ahead". The 1+2 vs subsequent rule, on the other hand, is very easy to apply in any situation.

I rest my case, and frankly do find your post insulting.


(*) I have a licence and 20 years accident-free driving experience from a country whose licences Ireland does not accept for trade in purposes. It rather irritates me that my country does accept Irish licences for trade-in purposes, so ignorant a**es from here can go there without a test, but I had to go through the entire process. But that is a whole different story.

fyi, in my country there is no rule either way. However "All road controlling authorities [are] required …. to mark lanes to direct the flow of traffic on roundabouts. This will require traffic entering and leaving any multi-laned roundabout to follow a clearly marked path, which will reduce the likelihood of a vehicle crossing another's path and causing a crash and will make roundabouts easier to use. " Perhaps we could recommend this approach to the Irish roading authorities.

churchview wrote: »

Then to further bring the point home, apply some logic. If (using your "legally correct" rule) the third exit is at a 150 degree angle from where you're entering i.e. to your left, why in the name of god would you use the right lane to access it when you would be crossing people going staight ahead (180 degrees) correctly using the left lane?

I said that you use the right lane to ENTER the roundabout. As is very clear in the quote I posted above, you do not LEAVE the roundabout from that lane. Rather:
"As you pass the exit before the one you intend to leave by, signal a left turn and, when your way is clear, move to the other lane and leave at the desired exit".

ZorbaTehZ

Sorry but if you're going to try and back up your case with information from a privately owned company(?), when the information already presented is from a government established national authority then there's no point arguing with you!

That example you give from your own test is ridiculous anyways - 5° beyond straight, I mean seriously are you taking the piss or what...

EDIT: Just noticed that that website you linked to, has here: http://www.lireland.com/theory/theory.htm

A full online version of the Rules of the Road, new updated rules of the road 2007, which are required in order to pass your theory test and driving test in Ireland.

... which links to this which is verbatim what is on the RSA website ie. the clock-system so what you linked to is outdated and it even states it there.

Mrs OBumble

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

Sorry but if you're going to try and back up your case with information from a privately owned company(?), when the information already presented is from a government established national authority then there's no point arguing with you!

It's been well established on a number of threads that the information from the "government established national authority" is grossly inadequate to cater for the real road situations encountered in Ireland today.

For example, the Browne roundabout where Seamus Quirke Rd meets Thomas Hydes Rd.
http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=headford+road%2C+galway&countryCode=IE#map=53.27937,-9.06804|17|32&bd=useful_information&loc=IE:53.468:-9.10643:17|headford%20road,%20galway|HEADFORD%20ROAD,%20GALWAY

Imagine you're approaching from Thomas Hynes Road, and want to take the Newcastle Avenue exit, which is pretty much straight ahead. By the "clock" system, you should enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane. But this means driving past (and thus clogging up) two far-more-popular exits on the way there. Far more effective to enter in the right hand lane, and then as you're past the Seamus Quirke exit to check mirrors, indicate, check again including the blind-spot for hidden motorcyclists, move into the left lane and exit gracefully without having held up other traiffic.

NB I'm not overly familiar with the example - there may well be roadmarkings which indicate otherwise and of course these over-rule any rules-of-thumb that driving instructors etc have established to help their students cope with the vagueness of the actual legislation and the bye-laws based on it.

... The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the real problem is not the skills, or otherwise, of Galway drivers. It's the abysmal state of road-engineering in Co Galway. If roundabouts where only used at intersections whose traffic volumes are low enough, and if lane markings and signage were always provided, they would be very effective. And this isn't a rant about the council either. I blame central government - it's quite ridiculous that in a country this tiny roading standards are managed by 26 different local authorities. There is no way that agencies this small can have enough critical mass to provide the full range of services that they are expected to and still make well-researched decisions.

ZorbaTehZ

JustMary wrote: »

It's been well established on a number of threads that the information from the "government established national authority" is grossly inadequate to cater for the real road situations encountered in Ireland today.

And what difference is that supposed to make? Threads with musings from random people on the internets should supersede RSA established driving code?

Pointing out specific roundabouts where the system doesn't work is moot tbh, I could spend all day finding examples for this that and the other with no actual significance to the debate overall.

At the end of the day any system will have its dificiencies, the point is a system that will work in the vast majority of cases. The 'clock system' is far superior to the numbering system because of the simple fact that it takes into account the actual location of the exits around the roundabout. If everyone followed the 'clock system' then I would argue that it would be as near as one could possibly get to a perfect driving code for roundabouts.

galah

regarding the whole roundabout thing - most roundabouts now have reasonably clear signs as to which lane leads where (arrows painted on the road, and usually a sign telling you which lane to use) - even the "roundabout of doom" has those.

It is, however, up to the driver to see them, and follow them accordingly - not that easy for a lot of people, unfortunately, judging by crazy lane hopping, merging, cutting across etc.

So it is the drivers, mostly, who are at fault for being too stupid to read the signs.

Obviously, the council could do a lot to improve roads, crossroads, and get rid of certain roundabouts that simply don't work due to sheer volume of traffic, but it's still the drivers who should be able to drive under any sort of circumstances - they can do it in Dublin and any other city...

Cole

This old chestnut again.

Any drivers who have experience of other towns/cities in Ireland will generally agree that Galway is indeed the worst...just pure incompetence.

Why is it so? I can't figure it out, but I can figure out why it continues.
Imo, the worst urban driving in Ireland parallels the worst Garda presence in any big town/city in Ireland.

galwayguy22

galah wrote: »

regarding the whole roundabout thing - most roundabouts now have reasonably clear signs as to which lane leads where (arrows painted on the road, and usually a sign telling you which lane to use) - even the "roundabout of doom" has those.

Unfortunately when it's busy (most of the time) cars in front of you cover up the road markings, making it near impossible for someone who's never been on the roundabout to know which lane their supposed to be in (seeing it's a "non standard" roundabout).

I hate on normal roundabouts when I'm in the right lane taking the third exit, and someone else is in the left lane taking the second exit. We both pull off at the same time, by they ALWAYS drift into my lane mid roundabout. Forcing my to slow down otherwise we'd have a crash.

Ardent

JustMary wrote: »

IF LEAVING BY THE FIRST EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane signalling a left turn and proceed to leave the roundabout at that exit.
• IF LEAVING BY THE SECOND EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the left-hand lane but do not signal until you have passed the first exit, then signal a left turn and leave at the next exit.
• IF LEAVING BY ANY SUBSEQUENT EXIT approach and enter the roundabout in the right hand lane signalling a right turn. Keep in the right hand lane (i.e. the lane next to the centre). As you pass the exit before the one you intend to leave by, signal a left turn and, when your way is clear, move to the other lane and leave at the desired exit.

I haven't read the whole thread but I don't get why Mary is being set upon here. This is how I approach roundabouts also and I learned this from the Rules Of the Road book I picked up 4 years or so ago. It's an approach that has served me very well, obviously a bit of common sense applies to roundabouts with 3 lanes or more.

And yes, Galway has some really bad drivers but I wouldn't be county specific - Ireland as a whole has some of the worst drivers in the world.

mark.leonard

galwayguy22 wrote: »

Unfortunately when it's busy (most of the time) cars in front of you cover up the road markings, making it near impossible for someone who's never been on the roundabout to know which lane their supposed to be in (seeing it's a "non standard" roundabout).

I hate on normal roundabouts when I'm in the right lane taking the third exit, and someone else is in the left lane taking the second exit. We both pull off at the same time, by they ALWAYS drift into my lane mid roundabout. Forcing my to slow down otherwise we'd have a crash.

Your alternative there is to hit the horn and keep it blowing while simultaneously gunning the engine a bit. Gives them something to remember the next time they are in that position again.

mark.leonard

Ardent wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread but I don't get why Mary is being set upon here. This is how I approach roundabouts also and I learned this from the Rules Of the Road book I picked up 4 years or so ago. It's an approach that has served me very well, obviously a bit of common sense applies to roundabouts with 3 lanes or more.

And yes, Galway has some really bad drivers but I wouldn't be county specific - Ireland as a whole has some of the worst drivers in the world.

Mainly because this approach is dated and not compatible with the current pre 12 'o clock right / post 12' o'clock left approach.

Ardent

I don't really care if it's outdated or not, just whether or not it's correct. If it's no longer correct, why is still being published by the RSA?

ZorbaTehZ

galwayguy22 wrote: »

I hate on normal roundabouts when I'm in the right lane taking the third exit, and someone else is in the left lane taking the second exit. We both pull off at the same time, by they ALWAYS drift into my lane mid roundabout. Forcing my to slow down otherwise we'd have a crash.

Ye, this is so irritating and so dangerous, always happens at the roundabout outside tescoes.

ZorbaTehZ

Ardent wrote: »

I don't really care if it's outdated or not, just whether or not it's correct. If it's no longer correct, why is still being published by the RSA?

It has been updated just take a look at that link that someone posted above from the RSA website.

Bass Cadet

ZorbaTehZ wrote: »

Ye, this is so irritating and so dangerous, always happens at the roundabout outside tescoes.

I saw this happen almost in slow motion yesterday at the galway clinic roundabout. Some guy was just in blissful ignorance, picking his nose, slowly turning around the roundabout and proceeded to cut right accross the lane nearly colliding into the car on the inside (old woman who nearly had a heart attack I'd say) and exited the roundabout, no indicator, still picking his snout, blissfully unaware that he was being a complete w*nk"R...I laughed