Garda chief asks mobile phone firm to retain web-browsing data

John_Mc

Think this is scandalous, and a total invasion of my privacy. This needs to be stopped in its tracks!

Taken from the Irish Times:

DETAILED INFORMATION on the web pages people view will be retained for possible future criminal investigations if telecommunications operators comply with a letter from the Garda Commissioner.

The request for real-time web-browsing information - the content or the web address (URL) of every web page browsed by users of mobile handsets, palmtop devices or 3G modems - goes beyond the European Union's data retention directive, which the Government intends to implement as a statutory instrument.

Such a measure would cover the content of web-based email. "The directive does not pertain to the retention of content, and this would be very concerning," said Deputy Data Protection Commissioner Gary Davis.

Industry sources confirmed last night that Vodafone - the largest mobile service provider in the State - had received a letter from the Garda Commissioner.

The Irish Times understands that the chief executives of O2 and 3 Ireland have not yet received the letters requesting the subscribers' browsing history to be retained, although the Garda Commissioner is believed to want to make retention of internet data a requirement for all mobile broadband providers.

Industry sources indicated that Vodafone has met Garda representatives to discuss the letter. Vodafone executives are believed to have questioned the legal basis under which it could retain this data.

Representatives of Vodafone, O2 and 3 discussed the letter at a meeting with Mr Davis yesterday. The meeting had been called to discuss a separate undisclosed telecoms regulation matter

It is understood the request for the web content is based on an appeal to telecommunications operators to act as "good citizens" and aid criminal investigations if asked to do so.

Ireland's draft statutory instrument, which must bring in the EU directive in full, allows for the retention of traffic information relating to phone and mobile calls - already retained in Ireland under legislation passed in 2006 - and also introduces new requirements for the retention of internet data. However, the content of calls or e-mails, or details on webpages browsed, is excluded from the directive and its disclosure would conflict with existing European data protection legislation.

KTRIC

Thats pretty shocking stuff alright. These Gardai are completely out of touch with reality and peoples rights.

John_Mc

KTRIC wrote: »

Thats pretty shocking stuff alright. These Gardai are completely out of touch with reality and peoples rights.

What can we do about this though?

Random

it's a bit mad alright. While i say i've done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide there are too many data leaks these days with lost laptops, sold hard drives and general muppetry.

I think it would be nice to be able to get rid of the bad guys by reading their email but who hasn't threatened to kill obama in their email or sent a joke which could be considered bad?

Wonder how far they actually want to go with this?

Sherifu

*throws away mobile phone*

Rsaeire

This is just another example of Ireland being completely out of touch with reality, as well as the rest of Europe, and the Gardai wanting to show they have control when they really don't.

As a previous user mentioned, it's not about having anything to hide, it's the fact that too much control is being given to the "powers that be" and that the risk of a person's data getting into the wrong hands is entirely plausible and completely unacceptable.

Rob_l

The problem with giving access to this information is not and should not be about wanting to hide something but should focus more on the potential for misuse by an garda.

What are the real potential gains for the police in having access to this in relation to the risks associated with having so much data logged about you.

Im not saying all Garda are bad far from it, but all it takes is one who has access to this and chooses to misuse it and should we allow that risk by giving them this information in the first place.

Also surely this raises serious privacy issues I may have nothing illegal to hide but that does not mean I want my personal life open to query by any nosey garda who I happened to go to school with and who might now have a grudge to bear( I never went to school with anyone who has become a guard).

Becoming a member of the police service does not make you immune to natural human traits like wanting to know such things as what your neighbours are up to. So placing this information in anyones hands is dangerous.

Tom Dunne

This sounds like an abuse of power by the Garda commissioner.

So, he is asking them nicely, but does he have the power to compel them to retain the data? I doubt this would stand up in court.

What a fool. And what an ominous development.

billbond4

Its not the Gardai thats pushing this its the Minister for Justice.

We have the longest period that a mobile phone operator has to keep mobile phone records (Full text messages, call statistics and location) for any European country. Its something like 18 months or 3 years.
Were coming a big brother state !!

If you want to do something about it, get onto the Minister for Justice.

Tarakiwa

Scary stuff! :eek:

Pyro Boy

billbond4 wrote: »

Its not the Gardai thats pushing this its the Minister for Justice.

We have the longest period that a mobile phone operator has to keep mobile phone records (Full text messages, call statistics and location) for any European country. Its something like 18 months or 3 years.
Were coming a big brother state !!

If you want to do something about it, get onto the Minister for Justice.

Where do the save this amount of data ? Surely this would be costly for mobile phone operators to do. 3 year thats a long time anyone can confirm this?

Rob_l

It would seem this is not an irish lead iniative I cant find any information as to which piece of legislation enabled this but I did find this page

http://www.digitalrights.ie/2005/12/15/data-retention-directive-passed/

However, this European law goes further. It extends monitoring to cover all internet use. It will require Internet service providers to record details of every email you send and every web page you visit. The Directive requires this information to be kept for a minimum of 6 months, but allows national governments to adopt longer periods if they wish. The Irish Government already requires your telephone records to be held for 3 years and seems set to apply the same to these new areas.

ozymandius

Yes, this is rather over-stepping the mark. We already have one of the most draconian data retention policies in Europe thanks to McDowell. See this extract for some background ...

Me wrote:

Historically, phone companies stored the call data for a period of time that suited their
needs and the police could have access if required for investigative purposes. However, as
the amount and detail of data grew, existing guidelines and laws were not changed. This
means that the data now being recorded is very rich in detail and is closer to content. A
few minutes web browsing data can tell a lot about a person. Besides having obvious use
in national security or criminal prosecutions, data of this scale and accuracy allows mass
surveillance on the citizens of a country.

In the absence of any firm guidelines or laws, mobile phone companies were keeping the
data for many years - in the case of the two original Irish mobile companies, Eircom and
Digifone, for over six years. In 2005 the Data Protection Commissioner instructed fixed
and mobile companies to keep traffic data for a period of not more than six months. The
government responded by including a last-minute amendment to the Criminal Justice
(Terrorist Offences) Bill 2005 which sets a retention period of three years.

In May 2002, EU directive 2002/58/EC on Electronic Communications and Privacy, was
enacted. This allowed member states to enact laws to retain traffic and location data on
all forms of communication, i.e. mobile, fixed, SMS, Internet, fax or any other form of
electronic communication. This reversed the EU’s previous position against data retention
and was a reaction to the events of 9/11. In March 2006, directive 2006/24/EC was
adopted which amended 2002/58/EC and requires members to ensure that communication
providers must retain data for a period of between six months and two years. The data
should only be available to competent authorities and be used for investigation of serious
crime, as defined by the member state. In Ireland this is at the discretion of the Garda
Commissioner.

http://www.digitalrights.ie/ , http://www.tjmcintyre.com/ and Karlin Lillington's articles in the Irish Times are good sources of info.

Get agrevated - it's wrong.

ozymandius

Rob_l wrote: »

Im not saying all Garda are bad far from it, but all it takes is one who has access to this and chooses to misuse it and should we allow that risk by giving them this information in the first place.

Becoming a member of the police service does not make you immune to natural human traits like wanting to know such things as what your neighbours are up to. So placing this information in anyones hands is dangerous.

Funny enough, from today's Irish Times ...

Woman accessed police database

A Northern Ireland civil servant admitted yesterday to using a police criminal database to check on family and friends.

Caroline Stokesberry (29), of Kilmaconnell Road, Castleroe, Coleraine, Co Derry, was given a two-year conditional discharge for the offences committed while she worked at a PSNI station in Belfast.

She had been charged with six counts of obtaining personal data held on the Integrated Criminal Intelligence System without authorisation during 2005-06.

strecker

Scandalous!
And btw, I am fed up hearing, 'it's not about hiding sth, it's about privacy'... Ffs: why is hiding sth wrong? If you've git the means and social 'standing' you can have bank safety boxes, swiss accounts, and a lawyer on retainer... Mr and Mrs average however, are 'dodgy' if they wanna 'hide' sth! That is what 'privacy' means: 'hiding'! It's not a bad thing! That's why they used ti need warrants to search your house etc... You're entitled to 'hide' stuff! It's psychologically and socially healthy! Animals do it ffs!

Drakar

I don't think we should take our social steer from animals Cory Doctorow has a good quote in his book Little Brother which tries to explain why privacy isn't about hiding something deviant

It's a little like nudity or taking a dump. Everyone gets naked every once in a while. Everyone has to squat on the toilet. There's nothing shameful, deviant or weird about either of them. But what if I decreed that from now on, every time you went to evacuate some solid waste, you'd have to do it in a glass room perched in the middle of Times Square, and you'd be buck naked?

Karolina_Of_Arc

Data protection is a hot topic at the moment, with some high profile cases being let off lightly, or completely.....
whilst they concentrate on employees on the lowest pay scale, who have been given no training whatsoever, that is what is scandalous - surely the organisations, the psni, the garda etc should take the rap - they are negligent and putting their employee's in vulnerable positions!!!!! Maybe we should look at the crux of the problem, and not 'pick' on the employee.

Also, the media get it wrong most of the time, and there is always more to the story than is reported.

oisin_

Does anyone know is it easy to hack a persons mobile phone, as in dialled numbers and listen to calls? For example vodafone dont list the calls when you log in with your phone number. But can it be hacked?

old_aussie

Please put your hand up and get permission to go to the toilet.

cnocbui

I suppose the commissioners next requests will be for Google to hand over decryption keys for Skype and for all the banks in Ireland to give him a back door so he can see what transpires over encrypted communications with their clients.

Lets all go out and get BlackBerrys, then he can threaten to have them banned like India, Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

Do the politicians and other senior Civil Servants of this country really want the Commissioner and his lads to be party to everything they do or say via IP traffic. Of course we all know he can be trusted, just like J Edgar Hoover could be trusted. What size frock do you wear Commissioner? And can I suggest you use L'Oréal - because you're obviously worth it.

Bugzy

where the hell do they get these ideas from?