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Cant change large notes?

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  • 08-11-2008 8:09pm
    #1
    ManyQuestions
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭


    Got petrol today, gave in a high value euro note.
    Cashier went into back to get change, came out with manager, who was foreign. She tells me they hasnt got enough to give change. I asked what I was supposed to do, and she said "I'll fill out the form for you".

    Called me around to sign this form, where on the top it says "No Means of Payment Form". It went...
    Me: this is wrong, I do have means of payment, just you dont have the change
    Her: we dont accept those notes, we dont have change
    Me: Its legal tender, you have to accept it. Its not my fault you dont have change.
    Her: No we dont, its our policy not to accept those notes.
    Me: So its your policy not to accept legal tender?
    Her: Yes.
    Me: Ok so, you dont accept money, how was i to pay for the petrol so?
    Her: We can call the police.
    Me: Please do. I have the money to pay for the petrol, you're the one who has said you dont accept this as legal tender. I think it will weigh more against you than me. I dont mind filling in the form, with the first two words crossed out, but do you realise what you're saying?
    Her: (handed me the form again)
    Me: (put a line through the 'No Means', and filled the form in, then left after getting owners name and number)

    What would be the course to take in a situation like this. It was earlier on, and although I've calmed down, I'm still livid over it.

    I intend to call the owner, but who or what body/agency can I make an issue out of it with?

    Thanks all!


«13456

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    #2
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Ah, I know the answer to this one, and an important part is that you were in a petrol station so you've actually gotten your product (petrol/diesal) and then wanted to pay afterwards as you do.

    As legal tender can be refused until a person is in debt, vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote for a single bus fare or bar of chocolate, and even shopkeepers can reject large banknotes. You know, Dublin bus won't take bank notes on a bus and that's perfectly legal. But this doesn't apply to you ManyQuestions, you are in debt as you've got your fuel already

    A similar example is restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept any legal tender, though they would not be obliged to provide change – the restaurant is not in debt, it has been given a gift.

    Lot of legal speak there.
    In summary, yes the shop is obliged to take legal tender from you as you've gotten your service/product but they are not obliged to give change.


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    #3
    Karmaa
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Karmaa


    I'd definitely be having words with the owner, look up consumer affairs on the web see if they can give you any contacts..... :)


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    #4
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Apart from the legality of the question, I'd wonder how a filling station couldn't have the change. Not wanting to give the change I can understand - if it's say a €500.00 note it'd be a nasty one to have a forgery passed, not being able though sounds like crap.


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    #5
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    The only people that use 500 euro notes are drug smugglers and cattle dealers ;)

    Many shops have signs stating they won't accept 200 & 500 euro notes.
    It's gonna clear out the till in the morning and if it's a forgery it's a massive risk.

    If the manager couldn't give change it's probably a directive from head office. That's why the manager couldn't do it.

    Sorry, not sure how to do the euro sign on an Apple mac :o


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    #6
    ManyQuestions
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭ManyQuestions


    Thanks all.

    While her attitude didnt help matters, I didnt know that their policy wasnt to accept large notes, if they had a wee sign up, Id then have known!

    Crazy what you said micmclo.....hard to swallow


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    #7
    samhail
    Registered Users Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭samhail


    go back, or get someone else to go back, and make sure that there isnt a sign anywhere that says that they may not except 200/500 notes.


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    #8
    ManyQuestions
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭ManyQuestions


    100% no sign


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    #9
    LolaDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭LolaDub


    How much was the note vs the cost of petrol?


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    #10
    ManyQuestions
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭ManyQuestions


    Was a 200 for 30 petrol


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    #11
    dh0661
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭dh0661


    I would presume that if the purchaser offered any domination of legal currency as payment and that offer of payment was refused, then there would be no further obligation on the purchaser to offer any other kind of payment.

    If you purchased €50-00 worth of petrol and offered 5000 one cent coins, that would be considered a legal payment.


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    #12
    dsane1
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭dsane1


    There are a lot of 200euro forgeries around at the moment so shops etc are verry cautious .Out of interest where did you get it .The bank ?


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    #13
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    dh0661 wrote: »
    If you purchased €50-00 worth of petrol and offered 5000 one cent coins, that would be considered a legal payment.


    Actually, no. The shop has no obligation to accept more than fifty coins in a payment.


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    #14
    dh0661
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭dh0661


    nipplenuts wrote: »
    Actually, no. The shop has no obligation to accept more than fifty coins in a payment.

    Are you 100% sure about this ?.


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    #15
    FruitLover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FruitLover


    It should have been pretty obvious that you might have difficulty paying with such a large note. Are we to believe that it didn't occur to you to check whether they would accept a €200 note before using their services?


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    #16
    Carturo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 216 ✭✭Carturo


    ManyQuestions wrote: »
    Got petrol today, gave in a high value euro note.
    Cashier went into back to get change, came out with manager, who was foreign. She tells me they hasnt got enough to give change. I asked what I was supposed to do, and she said "I'll fill out the form for you".

    Called me around to sign this form, where on the top it says "No Means of Payment Form". It went...
    Me: this is wrong, I do have means of payment, just you dont have the change
    Her: we dont accept those notes, we dont have change
    Me: Its legal tender, you have to accept it. Its not my fault you dont have change.
    Her: No we dont, its our policy not to accept those notes.
    Me: So its your policy not to accept legal tender?
    Her: Yes.
    Me: Ok so, you dont accept money, how was i to pay for the petrol so?
    Her: We can call the police.
    Me: Please do. I have the money to pay for the petrol, you're the one who has said you dont accept this as legal tender. I think it will weigh more against you than me. I dont mind filling in the form, with the first two words crossed out, but do you realise what you're saying?
    Her: (handed me the form again)
    Me: (put a line through the 'No Means', and filled the form in, then left after getting owners name and number)

    What would be the course to take in a situation like this. It was earlier on, and although I've calmed down, I'm still livid over it.

    I intend to call the owner, but who or what body/agency can I make an issue out of it with?

    Thanks all!

    Yeah I stopped reading after you had to mention the manager was foreign! What does that matter?!


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    #17
    LolaDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭LolaDub


    FruitLover wrote: »
    It should have been pretty obvious that you might have difficulty paying with such a large note. Are we to believe that it didn't occur to you to check whether they would accept a €200 note before using their services?

    I wouldn't think it would be obvious, its legal tender, all shops have some sort of security device now, even if its just the pen to check the notes. In a petrol station they probably have your license plate recorded on cctv so i would think it would be fairly easy for them to find you through the gardai if you had passed a forged note.


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    #18
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    dh0661 wrote: »
    Are you 100% sure about this ?.

    It's true.


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    #19
    dh0661
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭dh0661


    FruitLover wrote: »
    It should have been pretty obvious that you might have difficulty paying with such a large note. Are we to believe that it didn't occur to you to check whether they would accept a €200 note before using their services?

    In all fairness, if you have legal tender and it's not a dud, why should you have to check ?. :confused:

    €200-00 notes are not all that uncommon.


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    #20
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,836 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Are stamps still classed as legal tender? (or is that just a myth in the first place?) Do I have to accept stamps if I do a job for somebody?


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    #21
    dh0661
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭dh0661


    Kahless wrote: »
    It's true.

    True from where ?. Is there a law somewhere ?.
    If legal tender, as in one cent coins or €200-00 notes, is offered as payment for anything it cannot be refused.


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    #22
    dh0661
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭dh0661


    cormie wrote: »
    Are stamps still classed as legal tender?

    Not that I know of.


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    #23
    Bluetonic
    Registered Users Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    dh0661 wrote: »
    True from where ?. Is there a law somewhere ?.
    If legal tender, as in one cent coins or €200-00 notes, is offered as payment for anything it cannot be refused.
    Part IV, article 11 covers it.
    Article 11
    As from 1 January 2002, the participating Member States shall issue coins denominated in euro or in cent and complying with the denominations and technical specifications which the Council may lay down in accordance with the second sentence of Article 105a(2) of the Treaty. Without prejudice to Article 15, these coins shall be the only coins which have the status of legal tender in all these Member States. Except for the issuing authority and for those persons specifically designated by the national legislation of the issuing Member State, no party shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins in any single payment.

    http://www.irlgov.ie/ecbi-euro/legi4.htm


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    #24
    Gillo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    Wouldn't the safe in most garages be time locked, there's a good chance she did not have access to a large amount of change.

    Also the fact that the manager was foreign firstly is not unusual and secondly has absolutely nothing to do with your tale of woe. Why point it out?


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    #25
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    micmclo wrote: »
    Dublin bus won't take bank notes on a bus and that's perfectly legal.

    They will just that they won't give you change, You have to bring the credited ticket to the CIE office in O"Connel St for the refund.


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    #26
    thenightrider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭thenightrider


    FruitLover wrote: »
    It should have been pretty obvious that you might have difficulty paying with such a large note. Are we to believe that it didn't occur to you to check whether they would accept a €200 note before using their services?


    Why should any one have to check if a shop will take your money end of day its legal tender why have large notes if places are going to turn around and refuse them

    I think every were should have to take them apart from bus's taxis etc and if a place is not going to take them they must have sign's up for all to see


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    #27
    thenightrider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭thenightrider


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    They will just that they won't give you change, You have to bring the credited ticket to the CIE office in O"Connel St for the refund.


    No they wont take notes not any time ive gotten the bus and all Ive had is notes if you pay to much they will give you a ticket to collect in cie but they will not take notes they prob would not go in to there machine


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    #28
    dh0661
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭dh0661


    Bluetonic wrote: »
    Part IV, article 11 covers it.
    http://www.irlgov.ie/ecbi-euro/legi4.htm

    Okay, hands up, I did not know about this. But I would not like to be the retailer that refused a payment in one cent coins by me. Red rag to a bull and all that.

    But what op's situation ?. Surely he could have expected change from a genuine €200-00 note.


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    #29
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    ManyQuestions wrote: »
    Got petrol today, gave in a high value euro note.
    Cashier went into back to get change, came out with manager, who was foreign. She tells me they hasnt got enough to give change. I asked what I was supposed to do, and she said "I'll fill out the form for you".

    Called me around to sign this form, where on the top it says "No Means of Payment Form". It went...
    Me: this is wrong, I do have means of payment, just you dont have the change
    Her: we dont accept those notes, we dont have change
    Me: Its legal tender, you have to accept it. Its not my fault you dont have change.
    Her: No we dont, its our policy not to accept those notes.
    Me: So its your policy not to accept legal tender?
    Her: Yes.
    Me: Ok so, you dont accept money, how was i to pay for the petrol so?
    Her: We can call the police.
    Me: Please do. I have the money to pay for the petrol, you're the one who has said you dont accept this as legal tender. I think it will weigh more against you than me. I dont mind filling in the form, with the first two words crossed out, but do you realise what you're saying?
    Her: (handed me the form again)
    Me: (put a line through the 'No Means', and filled the form in, then left after getting owners name and number)

    What would be the course to take in a situation like this. It was earlier on, and although I've calmed down, I'm still livid over it.

    I intend to call the owner, but who or what body/agency can I make an issue out of it with?

    Thanks all!

    My advice...

    OP: Here is my payment for the fuel...

    Assistant: Sorry, we don't have change...

    OP: Grand, here's my name and address, call down to me when you know how to run a business and have sufficient change for legal tender offered for goods or services.

    OP, you've offered legal tender for goods or services, if they are not in a position to accept legal tender, don't lose any sleep over it. Give them your details and let them contact you when they get their act together and if they ask you to fill out a form, tell them you are under no obligation whatsoever to fill out any form... They are under an obligation to accept legal tender for whet they have provided you with... If they want to call the Gardai, ask them would they like you use you phone...


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    #30
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    They are under an obligation to accept legal tender for whet they have provided you with

    Indeed they are but they are under no obligation to provide change if the service has already been provided.

    A lot of people in this thread giving their opinion and that's great, only about two actually referencing the relevent law


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    #31
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    micmclo wrote: »
    Indeed they are but they are under no obligation to provide change if the service has already been provided.

    A lot of people in this thread giving their opinion and that's great, only about two actually referencing the relevent law

    This isn't a legal issue, it's a common sense and customer service issue. If the service provider doesn't have change, that is their problem. The real issue here is that the person who is in charge cannot make a decision with regard to the validility of the note tendered by the OP and is passing the buck and reverting to filling out forms to cover his/her arse, on the incorrect assumption that the OP is pulling a scam. Bullsh*t in my opinion, train your staff up to a standard, get your act together, keep enough change on site and don't be winding up your customer with forms and indefensible bullsh*t...


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