Cant change large notes?

gerrycollins

cormie wrote: »

So are you saying if you see something advertised at €10 on the shelf and it scans up at €11, and you pay €11, then you can come back and say it's advertised as €10, I want it at €10, instead of saying this before you pay at the risk of being told "that price is invitation to treat, I don't have to sell it to you at that price, the price is €11"? So you can always get the advertised price as long as you go through with the sale?

i have worked in retail for 10 years and have never once quoted or heard quote "invitation to treat" in that manner. but essentially you are correct.

If I remove the incorrect price tag and you return to the shop you have no proof you bought it while advertised at €10(unless its on a large billboard /in paper undated) thats why it a both parties "contract" at the point of sale.

If for example your pricing situation was reversed it would be up to the shop to point out the fact that the product should be charged at €11 instead of the marked and scanning price of €10, the shop essentially cannot come after you looking for their money they would have had to point it out to you at the till.

Thats the technical part.

The reaility, if you have a good manager/owner they will rectify the matter in your favour at the till or afterwards so long as you dont rub it in.

Me? i'm the same as above and will satsify the customer first then beat ten shades out of the staff member whos responsibility it was to change the sign. However you come in quoting "the law" thats it! ill deal with you exactly word for word in accordance with "the law"

Sam Vimes

micmclo wrote: »

And remember since you were in the UK, they are perfectly entitled to refuse Northern Bank, First Trust or any other version of sterling note you have. Bank of England is the legal tender.
Open to being corrected on this though

northern irish notes are legal tender in england. They have a picture of the queen on the front promising to pay the bearer the sum of x pounds so they're just as good as english notes. It's just like using a german euro coin

edit: but lots of places don't know that and look at you like you've ten heads when you hand them one

Sam Vimes

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think you should acquaint yourself with the facts before commenting on a situation that you have absolutely no knowledge of. In this situation regarding the bottle of wine, I politely pointed out that the price I was being charged was incorrect. I then have to deal with a comment that basically says, "sorry, that's the price, I can't do anything about it, you have to pay the higher price, I can't change the prices on 'the system'..."... Then I realise I'm dealing with an absolute idiot, and I react accordingly...

i see. The person who knows the law is an idiot and the person who "makes an itinerant" of himself over a euro that he only thinks he's entitled to isn't an idiot.......

Darragh, i really think you should back away from the thread. You're not coming across well here. You're coming across as the type of person that every retail worker in the world dreads. The one who doesn't know anything and wants the whole world to know it

gerrycollins

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i see. The person who knows the law is an idiot and the person who "makes an itinerant" of himself over a euro that he only thinks he's entitled to isn't an idiot.......

Darragh, i really think you should back away from the thread. You're not coming across well here. You're coming across as the type of person that every retail worker in the world dreads. The one who doesn't know anything and wants the whole world to know it

+1

Sam Vimes

the groutch wrote: »

That's INVITATION TO TREAT, they're not legally obliged to sell at the lower price

If you had paid though and then complained that you'd been overcharged, they'd be legally required to refund the diff

that doesn't sound right to me. If they're not obliged to sell at the advertised price, why would they be obliged to give you the advertised price after the sale

Sangre

Darragh29 wrote: »

What you are very obviously promoting here is a world where one price is advertised, another higher price is sought at the till, and that's grand, the customer gets screwed and nothing changes.

Once again your ignorance is astounding. A shop is obliged to change any incorrect prices on the shelves that they are aware of. Failure to do so is illegal. This is where the consumer is protected. However, the business is also entitled to protection.

Do you really think it would be fair if, because of a misprint, that a shop HAD to sell a TV for 500e instead of 5000e? Where is the justice there?

You sound like the type of person who makes working in retail a nightmare.

By the way darragh, you should be thankful you live in Ireland and the EU where the law strongly favours the consumer.

the grouch wrote:

That's INVITATION TO TREAT, they're not legally obliged to sell at the lower price

If you had paid though and then complained that you'd been overcharged, they'd be legally required to refund the diff

I really don't think so. Unless there is some consumer law I'm unaware of. The contract has already been completed at the agreed terms. No doubt you would be refunded as a good will measure.

punchdrunk

Darragh29 wrote: »

, I can't change the prices on 'the system'..."... Then I realise I'm dealing with an absolute idiot, and I react accordingly...

You see the thing is,alot of shop point of sale systems are set-up just so,
it stops staff giving discounts to their mates or being manipulated by customers into honouring mistakes made on price labels
in my shop trainees and junior employees can't discount or give away stock,so this is entirely possible and if it so happens that a manager is on lunch etc then your out of luck!

i'll give you an example,one of our lads done a price card
for an item the other day he put a €1329 euro card in the window minus the 1!
thankfully we noticed before some idiot came in screaming his rights that he was entitled to it at that price
if it's a small difference then most shops will take the hit,it's a savy move and keeps customers on side, so if it's only say a fiver a good retailer will ususally let it slide
but there's not a snowballs chance in hell of somebody knocking off a grand as an apology

The_Conductor

While you are going on about "invitation to treat" etc- you might like to check out the European Communities
(Requirements to Indicate Product Prices) Regulation 2002. This covers all products, not just foodstuffs.

Retailers must display the selling price of a product, and in most cases, the unit price also. The selling price is the final price in euro, including VAT and all other taxes. Effectively this is the price the consumer pays for the product at the till. Retailers are not obliged to display a selling price for a product where that product is not pre-packaged and is measured in the presence of the customer (eg. where fresh fruit, vegetables or meat are
weighed in front of the customer, there is no obligation to display a selling price as the price will depend on the weight sold). A unit price, however, must still be display.

Failure to correctly display retail prices is a specific offence, and compliance is enforced by the Director of Consumer Affairs. A retailer can be prosecuted for any number of offences arising from one inspection and each offence under the regulations can carry a fine of up to €3,000. Where a price is not displayed for a product that requires both a selling and a unit price, this constitutes two separate offences with a fine of up to €6,000 for this product alone.

So- an advertised shelf price may be an "invitation to treat", but if its incorrect or you are charged differently- its an offence with a large fine.

S.

cormie

Does that mean a price tag must be on every single item in a shop or displayed in the shelf where these items are standing?

Cabaal

Darragh29, I would like to thankyou for your very entertaining posts, never before have I come across such a person on this forum that has made such a fool of themselfs as they think they know the law and believe they are right when they are clearly not!

Thankyou for your posts and I'm glad to see 99.9% of people on this forum also find your posts very entertaining ::)

I'd love to come across you when your making some poor retail chaps life a nightmare through your ignorance I'd be more then happy to backup the retailer with the correct info

jor el

the groutch wrote: »

If you had paid though and then complained that you'd been overcharged, they'd be legally required to refund the diff

If the price on the shelf was the correct price, and you were charged more at the till, then you would be entitled to a refund. If the price on the shelf was wrong though, and you were charged the correct price at the till, then no, you wouldn't be entitled to anything. You should also contest the charge at the till, if you are aware of the price difference.

calex71

I really doubt the garage was going to have a rush of people trying to by fuel woth a €200 note, and i really doubt they couldnt streatch to giving the OP 3 50's and a 20 change.

If they are worried about forgeries (as they should be) they should just say so on a sign that they wont be accepted. It's common sense really that there might be an issue with a large bill however so I feel the OP shares a part of the blame at least.

I once had a €100 turned down in tesco of all places for 70 odd worth of groceries!!!!!!!!! Which thought me not to use anything over a 50 in a shop again :mad:

I know theres been a lot of legal banter about whether the garage had to accept the note etc but at the end of the day thats just how it is. I dont think its right them not accepting it but thats how it is in a lot of places. Still wish I had a few €200 notes to spend

The_Conductor

cormie wrote: »

Does that mean a price tag must be on every single item in a shop or displayed in the shelf where these items are standing?

On the shelf.

the groutch

the important element of this is that it is illegal to SELL a product for higher than the displayed price, so it's when the transaction is completed that they have broken the law, where if you complain before the transaction is completed, they haven't sold anything for the higher price yet

Gyalist

smccarrick wrote: »

While you are going on about "invitation to treat" etc- you might like to check out the European Communities
(Requirements to Indicate Product Prices) Regulation 2002. This covers all products, not just foodstuffs.

Retailers must display the selling price of a product, and in most cases, the unit price also. The selling price is the final price in euro, including VAT and all other taxes. Effectively this is the price the consumer pays for the product at the till. Retailers are not obliged to display a selling price for a product where that product is not pre-packaged and is measured in the presence of the customer (eg. where fresh fruit, vegetables or meat are
weighed in front of the customer, there is no obligation to display a selling price as the price will depend on the weight sold). A unit price, however, must still be display.

Failure to correctly display retail prices is a specific offence, and compliance is enforced by the Director of Consumer Affairs. A retailer can be prosecuted for any number of offences arising from one inspection and each offence under the regulations can carry a fine of up to €3,000. Where a price is not displayed for a product that requires both a selling and a unit price, this constitutes two separate offences with a fine of up to €6,000 for this product alone.

So- an advertised shelf price may be an "invitation to treat", but if its incorrect or you are charged differently- its an offence with a large fine.

S.

While you are essentially correct, you will no doubt notice that in the fine print on the price display there is the term "E & OE".

parsi

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Interesting phrase. I wasn't sure what you meant by it but your subsequent posts have helped. It must mean someone who shouts loudly without having any idea what he's talking about.


.

and adds "Boss" to the end of every sentence.

The_Conductor

Sangre wrote: »

Thats not my memory of it. I didn't gather that from a quick glance of it either (or actually the SI that enacted it). The reality of the above would create a nonsense. It would mean if a retailer accidentally mislabelled a once off product he couldn't sell it at the higher price, even if the consumer wanted him to. He would just simply have to refuse to sell, go and change the price and then let the consumer come back and buy it. The Regulation is to ensure retailers remain vigilant at updating and maintaining correct, clear and adequate prices. Its not trying to punish once off mistakes.

First of all its Section 6 of the enacting Statutory Instrument (here) which specifically states the manner in which prices must be displayed, how and where- and incidentally its also an offense to sell below advertised price (though I can't imagine too many people complain when its below advertised price).

The OCA do actually inspect premises, both on receipt of complaints, but also on a random basis (the major supermarket chains are regularly checked).

There are a number of easy to read descriptions of what the Regulation and SI entail such as here.

MOP have a very good intro to the law here.

Shane

Darragh29

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i see. The person who knows the law is an idiot and the person who "makes an itinerant" of himself over a euro that he only thinks he's entitled to isn't an idiot.......

Darragh, i really think you should back away from the thread. You're not coming across well here. You're coming across as the type of person that every retail worker in the world dreads. The one who doesn't know anything and wants the whole world to know it

I'll always approach any problem politely and with due respect to another person, on the first occasion. However when I find that someone that has it in their head that I'm just going to bend over and accept poor service, incorrect pricing, after I've tried dealing with a problem in the normal manner and get fobbed off, I'll react accordingly, as do most people I think you will find. Where you overcharge someone, it simply isn't open to you to shrug your shoulders and just say that there is nothing you can do about it!!! If this is what you are promoting or suggesting, that I or anybody else should accept this, then you are simply wrong!!! Nobody has to accept being firstly overcharged, which I accept can happen, and then be expected to believe that nothing can be done about it!!! Anyone who is told this is going to run out of patience, this is not a reflection on me, this is a reflection on an outlet that has absolutely no regard for its customers.

To get back to the actual topic, I wouldn't have a problem with someone paying for goods/services with a 200 Euro note, I've taken many of them in the past from customers, if you have the equipment and proper checking procedures, you won't have an issue with fake notes.

The problem on both occasions above was a casual disregard for the customer, the person who ought to be at the very centre of every transaction and treated accordingly.

Walkman

You are one angry individual. Why is the person who gave the OP the form an idiot. If that was the policy (and im not defending the policy) of the garage and he wasnt the owner then he was just doing his job. Im sure we all work for companies where we find some of the policies idiotic but we still have to abide by them, that doesnt make us idiots. The girl who couldnt change the price of the wine, why was she an idiot (maybe she really couldnt override the price on the system). You are offensive, rude, brash and i would imagine the type of person who gets called a lot more than an idiot by customers and staff of shops when you kick off.
Please stop posting as for the first time ever on boards I an getting annoyed reading your posts and with all due respects I think you are the biggest idiot here as you seem to have no realisation that these people are doing their jobs, now stop ranting and post something constructive (or dont post at all) which doesnt make you look like a retailers nightmare.

Sangre

smccarrick wrote: »

First of all its Section 6 of the enacting Statutory Instrument (here) which specifically states the manner in which prices must be displayed, how and where- and incidentally its also an offense to sell below advertised price (though I can't imagine too many people complain when its below advertised price).

The OCA do actually inspect premises, both on receipt of complaints, but also on a random basis (the major supermarket chains are regularly checked).

There are a number of easy to read descriptions of what the Regulation and SI entail such as here.

MOP have a very good intro to the law here.

Shane

I actually deleted the post there as I actually felt I should read the thing in full first. I had also slightly misread what you were saying.

Darragh29

Walkman wrote: »

You are one angry individual. Why is the person who gave the OP the form an idiot. If that was the policy (and im not defending the policy) of the garage and he wasnt the owner then he was just doing his job. Im sure we all work for companies where we find some of the policies idiotic but we still have to abide by them, that doesnt make us idiots. The girl who couldnt change the price of the wine, why was she an idiot (maybe she really couldnt override the price on the system). You are offensive, rude, brash and i would imagine the type of person who gets called a lot more than an idiot by customers and staff of shops when you kick off.
Please stop posting as for the first time ever on boards I an getting annoyed reading your posts and with all due respects I think you are the biggest idiot here as you seem to have no realisation that these people are doing their jobs, now stop ranting and post something constructive (or dont post at all) which doesnt make you look like a retailers nightmare.

I'm not ranting and I'm not angry at all, I just don't suffer fools gladly. I call poor service and dopey staff when I see it. In the case above, the girl who told me I had been overcharged and there was nothing I could do about it was the manager. What have you got to say to that??? Who should I take the issue up with ffs, the shareholders, the Gardai, the ombudsman??? Will you cop on and deal with the fact that some people feel entitled to call bullsh*t when they see it. I don't get up on my high horse very often, but equally I won't tolerate someone just fobbing me off and telling me that they are after ripping me off and there is nothing that they, nor I, can do about it! If we all approched spending like you clearly envisage, there would be one price at the shelf and another price at the till on every occasion. If you want to live like this, grand, there is a country called Zimbabwe were this is a daily experience when shopping, you might want to check it out.

Also, if you are a manager, you are paid to resolve/manage problems as they occur, not wind up customers and stand there saying there is nothing you can do about it. If you are in such a workplace situation, you are being set up for failure. Same goes for pathethic form filling when someone gives you a form asking you to state in writing that you are unable to pay for goods you have received, which is simply not true when you have 200 Euro legal tender in your hand. There is only one outcome here and this is a highly irate customer, which is why I imagine this thread was created by the OP.

Walkman

Store managers are not employed to break the company rules but to enforce them. Calling staff idiots will get you nowhere. I state again you are rude, offensive and have no idea what your talking about, as I stated in my earlier post I did not endorse the policy of having to fill out the form but clearly stated than having to fill it out does not make the manager an idiot. I seriously doubt you take the calm approach when complaining as your posts do not read as the posts of a calm rational person. Now im finished replying to you as: 1) as stated earlier you are the idiot not the people im the stores having to deal with people like you or (and more probably) 2: you are a troll and im rising to it.

dh0661

Lads --- call a truce --- please

Darragh29

Walkman wrote: »

Store managers are not employed to break the company rules but to enforce them. Calling staff idiots will get you nowhere. I state again you are rude, offensive and have no idea what your talking about, as I stated in my earlier post I did not endorse the policy of having to fill out the form but clearly stated than having to fill it out does not make the manager an idiot. I seriously doubt you take the calm approach when complaining as your posts do not read as the posts of a calm rational person. Now im finished replying to you as: 1) as stated earlier you are the idiot not the people im the stores having to deal with people like you or (and more probably) 2: you are a troll and im rising to it.

One of the most important duties of a Store Manager I imagine is to look after and more importantly, retain the customer. I'm all for rules, but I'm not for petty rules. It is clear that a rule that asks you to fill out and sign a form stating that you cannot pay for your goods, when you have 200 Euro in cash in your hand, is a petty rule and serves no purpose whatsoever, except to wind up and aggrevate a customer. Similarly, a rule or policy that says you can overcharge someone and then basically tell them to p*ss off when they pull you up on it (politely I should add!), is not just a stupid rule but is also an illegal rule. Are you going to reply and tell me that I should tolerate illegal rules/policies now???

the_syco

So... buying a 20 cent Dan bar with a €200 note is ok?

I've worked in a cinema, where once we got more than €200, someone from the office would come out, and take money off us. I'd get some yob coming in every few weeks, one hour after we opened, trying to buy a €8 ticket with a €200 bill. And they'd get offended when we don't have the change.

See, we could accept the cash, but we wouldn't have the change. Before we opened, the safe would've been emptied. And even if we had the change, we give one yob change for €200, what do we tell the next 15 people? That we have no change? F**k that. Common sense tells us to ensure we have change for someone with ten, twenty, or a fifty. To give it all to one yob who has a €200 bill? Erm, no.

rubadub

I've been asked for smaller than a €50 in big supermarkets a few times. Only had a hundred note once and was worried where would take it, so had other cash with me incase, any of my mates who get big notes would be the same way, asking the rest of us what to do with it, i.e. expecting to have trouble.

Kensington

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm not ranting and I'm not angry at all, I just don't suffer fools gladly. I call poor service and dopey staff when I see it.

No offense, but you sound exactly like the type of person whereby if the member of staff isn't standing there telling you precisely what you want to hear, then that's crap customer service.

Darragh29 wrote: »

In the case above, the girl who told me I had been overcharged and there was nothing I could do about it was the manager. What have you got to say to that??? Who should I take the issue up with ffs, the shareholders, the Gardai, the ombudsman???

The price was obviously wrong on the shelf. If you felt so hard done by the store why didn't you insist on an immediate refund on the wine there and then? Insist you see the manager or a member of staff physically change the wrong price to the new one? If it means that much to you...

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't get up on my high horse very often, but equally I won't tolerate someone just fobbing me off and telling me that they are after ripping me off and there is nothing that they, nor I, can do about it!

Yes you can, you ask for your money back and leave the shop? Save yourself (and the poor staff) a lot of needless hassle? And do you call every shop employee who doesn't do what you think they should be doing, a dope? Sounds like that high horse is your second home from the tone of your posts...

Darragh29 wrote: »

If we all approched spending like you clearly envisage, there would be one price at the shelf and another price at the till on every occasion.

Don't be so stupid, it's not a retailer's aim to piss people off, believe it or not. Mistakes do happen. Prices aren't always correct.

Darragh29 wrote: »

Also, if you are a manager, you are paid to resolve/manage problems as they occur, not wind up customers and stand there saying there is nothing you can do about it. If you are in such a workplace situation, you are being set up for failure.

Just like with customer service, the manager standing there who isn't telling you what you want to hear, is not bad management.

Darragh29 wrote:

Same goes for pathethic form filling when someone gives you a form asking you to state in writing that you are unable to pay for goods you have received, which is simply not true when you have 200 Euro legal tender in your hand. There is only one outcome here and this is a highly irate customer, which is why I imagine this thread was created by the OP.

So, you have one unfortunate customer with a €200 who's pissed off because you won't accept the note, or you take the €200 note and then have every customer who comes into the station for the rest of the day and pays in cash, pissed off because you've no change to give them because you handed all the change out to the guy with the €200 note?

I mean, come on, if you seriously think you can walk into a shop and they'll take a note bigger than €100 without batting an eyelid...

The_Conductor

Sangre wrote: »

I actually deleted the post there as I actually felt I should read the thing in full first. I had also slightly misread what you were saying.

Sorry!

the groutch

I'm lucky enough to work somewhere where we will always have the change of any note available
As to the risk of counterfeits, we don't have any pens or purple lights each, but it's pretty easy to spot counterfiet € notes
If I get handed a €200 or €500 note, I ask the customer's permission to inspect it, and they never object

krudler

Darragh29 wrote: »

One of the most important duties of a Store Manager I imagine is to look after and more importantly, retain the customer. I'm all for rules, but I'm not for petty rules. It is clear that a rule that asks you to fill out and sign a form stating that you cannot pay for your goods, when you have 200 Euro in cash in your hand, is a petty rule and serves no purpose whatsoever, except to wind up and aggrevate a customer. Similarly, a rule or policy that says you can overcharge someone and then basically tell them to p*ss off when they pull you up on it (politely I should add!), is not just a stupid rule but is also an illegal rule. Are you going to reply and tell me that I should tolerate illegal rules/policies now???

you've already been poven wrong about this, why keep bringing it up?
You're the kind of customer everyone working in retail hates, have dealt with plenty of clowns with the same "i know my rights!" attitude as you, even though they have no clue about what they're talking about